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31 March 2008

Am I disabled or am I an asshole? [More:]
Like many people, when I am stressed out or upset, this may show on my face or in my voice. The problem is I am stressed out and upset a whole lot of the time.

At the end of the work day today I got dressed down like a child by Andrew for 1) speaking slowly, loudly and clearly in simple words during a conversation on the phone with our landlord. I was doing this because there was very, very bad reception; Andrew thought I was being mean and impatient.

I explained why I'd spoken in that way and he claimed that he'd never had to do such a thing on the phone.

He also criticized me for what he considers rudeness in asking him to get the spare shop keys that he'd borrowed, from his car. Knowing that he usually runs off at the end of the day after his shift I asked him to get his keys now "so we don't forget" and I'll cover the till for a minute. He refused and then criticized me for that at the end of the day.

I'd had enough of being dressed down. I explained to him that I sound stressed out because I have a disability - that basic stuff, just being at work and around people, stresses me out, and this is what's causing me to look and sound bad.

I asked him if he had any suggestions as to how to resolve this - some expert or training I could take to standardize my face and voice while I was at work, or the like. He said that the solution lies within me, that I have to empathize with other people more, and that he thought he was providing support by pointing this stuff out.

empathise with other people more?

Fucking ridiculous. I spend my whole day worried about how other people are feeling and thinking. The issue isn't empathy. The issue is that I have a fucking disability which interferes with the proper processing of emotional input and this disability is causing me stress, which he is seeing.

To tell the truth, I am annoyed at andrew and was when I asked for the keys - his forgetfulness and lack of attention to detail was what caused the previous fuckup. So either a) I am really inappropriate or whatever, or b) I'm being discriminated against, and instead of "she must be a bit pissed at me because I accused her of some shit" he's thinking that my annoyance at him must be something I have got to be dressed down for like a child.

It's been this way in every job I've ever had, probably because of a history of childhood abuse. Part of my despair (see last post) is because someone like me, who brought herself up with the history of struggles for rights and freedom, cannot reconcile with living the rest of my life where people feel they can dress me down in this way.

Oh, and I am not a child or a research animal, don't call what I do behaviour.

It's not just this supervisor. The other one just shouts at me to relax when I'm nervous.

I am afraid to talk or look at people now. How do I get acting skills so I can talk cheery and look cheery when at work at all times?

So, am I an asshole or am I disabled? And if I am disabled, what sort of reasonable adjustments can I demand in the workplace? I've thought of a few - having regular supervision is one; responding promptly when I text or email with a question is another.

How do you get disability accomodation for mental health? Basically the only accomodation I want is a change in perspective of these two directors; for them to understand that what this is is a symptom of persistent anxiety and depression, not something that is lifelong and impairs my quality of life, something I am trying to fight on a daily basis.

And if I am an asshole, how does one stop being an asshole? I don't want to be an asshole.
Oops, are you not supposed to put 'asshole' on the front page? please feel free to change it to "butthead" or whatever if so.
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 14:03
It's not you, it's him.

I'd be very annoyed if talked to like that.

The key is to find, dust off, and USE your sense of humor. If you can find the ridiculousness at the situation, and laugh at it, not only will that help you with your goal but it will lessen the stress.

Mind you, I have even used this technique years ago when in hospital after a suicide attempt, so nothing, NOTHING is so awful you cannot try this method.

Many supervisors (and sadly, many men) seem to think they are above being wrong and/or that they are God, and that it is their godgiven right to chew out an underling. So darling, it ain't you.
posted by bunnyfire 31 March | 14:10
Can you give me an example of how I would use my sense of humor in this situation? I'm confused.
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 14:17
*facial tic*
posted by quonsar 31 March | 14:18
From your posts I don't think the problem necessarily lies with you. I'm not even sure there's a "disability" there. This is one of those things where "differently abled" really does seem to fit.

For instance, I don't view myself as disabled at all, and yet I will never take a job working on a trading floor. Neither will I take a job that requires me to wear a gun and a badge. Neither will I take a job that requires me to schmooze for a living.

Is finding a work environment that better fits your personality a possibility?
posted by small_ruminant 31 March | 14:21
I've had this trouble with every job. What kind of a work environment would better fit my personality? How do I find out?
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 14:24
I don't know, but I do know that there are businesses that try to track down exactly that. Maybe even just making lists of things you actually enjoy and things you can't handle would point you in the right direction?
posted by small_ruminant 31 March | 14:29
How do you get disability accomodation for mental health?

This is something you could coordinate with the help of a doctor.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 31 March | 14:31
Basically the only accomodation I want is a change in perspective of these two directors; for them to understand that what this is is a symptom of persistent anxiety and depression, not something that is lifelong and impairs my quality of life, something I am trying to fight on a daily basis.

Unless you're working for mental health professionals, I don't think this is a reasonable expectation. If I were an employer in this situation, I think I'd want instructions from my employee's doctor so that I could have some sort of objective protocol to guide me. In other words, what TPS said.
posted by mullacc 31 March | 14:45
I'm with TPS, too. You need documentation from a professional to pursue this one.
posted by Ardiril 31 March | 14:49
er, remove the "not" there. Or just restate it: "I want them to understand that this all is a part of my disability."
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 14:52
I am currently searching for a consultant that can help me figure out the right language etc for bringing this up. It's not doctor certified here in the uK, but I do need to use the right language to trigger the Disability Discrimination Act.
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 15:00
He said that the solution lies within me, that I have to empathize with other people more, and that he thought he was providing support by pointing this stuff out.

Wow, what? Is this guy your boss or a coworker? Because, in the US at least, the proper way to discuss what is essentially a personality problem and not a job performance problem is not public dressing-downs. Unless, I guess, your job is to make Andrew happy? Like you're his personal assistant or something? In which case maybe you should get a job that doesn't depend on someone like him...

If the problem is that you can't "Fake it till you make it" (ie act like you're happy when you're not, etc, which is something I find super difficult as well), then can you get a job where you don't really have to interact with the public? It just seems so weird to me that people would be dressing you down for getting annoyed and pissy - is it a cultural difference between the US and the UK?
posted by muddgirl 31 March | 15:04
Have you considered a government job? Public employers seem to have more success with finding the patience to help people into a role that suits their abilities and that they can cope with.
posted by dg 31 March | 15:17
If I can get out of this job in a way that results in a positive recommendation I will try to get a job for the Council.
posted by By the Grace of God 31 March | 15:26
It's not doctor certified here in the uK

Hmm, ok, you missed my point so I will ask bluntly since I cannot recall your ever saying so: Are you seeing a mental therapist or doctor? If not, you should.
posted by Ardiril 31 March | 15:40
Don't worry about positive recommendations from your employer, just put "metachat.org" as your referee. We'll see you right.
posted by dg 31 March | 15:45
I just wanted to let you know that I feel for you. Perhaps you can explain to your one supervisor, after giving him a HUGE compliment first, that if he wants you to relax, he could use a more gentle tone of voice and it might be more effective. Then you just take a DEEP breath and relax.... it's all right..... really, it is.
posted by serena 31 March | 16:20
What I meant by sense of humor is see the ridiculousness in other people. And heaven knows people have loads of it.
posted by bunnyfire 31 March | 16:54
HOWEVER if one is a sensitive and wounded individual (and I have been one, believe me) it doesn't take much for people's words to hurt. I had to learn to not care. It ain't easy but for me it helped when I realized that God's opinion was the one that mattered and that was it.
posted by bunnyfire 31 March | 16:56
I really have to agree with Ardiril said. After reading your work-related posts here, BtGoG, it really does seem as though there is a problem with work environments, a problem which it falls on you to solve -- not meaning that you caused it, like it or ask for it, but it is yours to manage. Are you seeing a therapist currently? I'd say you could really use the help of a professional, if only to figure out how to help your boss(es) make reasonable accommodation.

Regardless of what causes your friction with co-workers, it may be very important to your survival and happiness in the professional world to acknowledge that something is causing it and work to change the dynamic. Because the problem keeps repeating itself, it would seem you could use more tools in the toolbox for handling it. Having a disability sometimes does mean educating the boss. Most people arrive in management roles, particularly in the nonprofit world, with minimal professional training in handling personality disorders among employees - heck, most don't even get basic training on handling employees of any stripe. In the US there are HR regs I have to follow in these discussions with employees; I'm completely uninformed about the UK, but there is doubtless a structure for receiving a diagnosis and learning about your protection under the law. Here, there are things required of both parties - the employee has to demonstrate evidence for the need for accommodation and be specific about what sort of accommodation is required. The boss has to make 'reasonable' accommodations, as long as do not put the operations of the business at a disadvantage or create unfair conditions for the staff as a whole.

This also may mean choosing jobs where you are less often required to work outside your area of strength; if conversations at work don't go well because you are perceived as being condescending, you could either (a) work using some form of therapy that gives you direct feedback on your communication style so that you can modify it, or (b) find work that doesn't put you in the position of negotiating or interacting frequently with a lot of people. Archivist? Data wrangler? Grant/newsletter writing? Finance? Web development? I'm not sure what your skill set is, but there are roles for all sorts of people.

The thing is, it's frustrating for you. I accept the cultural rule of thumb where personality style is concerned - that there is a huge range of what we could call 'normal' behavior, and as long as your behavior isn't causing you problems in work or relationships, there's no particular need to address it. But when it does start to make an unwelcome difference in your work or professional life, it is time to get useful help. I know you've tried to find some good therapeutic support in the past and have had some frustrations...how's that going?

*I know you said you didn't want to use the term behavior, but honestly I'm not sure what else to call 'the way we act.' We are animals, after all, and we do have behaviors and in most cases they are within our power to change, given the desire to do so and the right combination of supports..
posted by Miko 31 March | 17:13
*favourites and totally agrees with Miko's post*
posted by gaspode 31 March | 17:33
Grace, I agree with Miko too (she almost always nails it, doesn't she?) and offer help: I've had a considerable amount of training in this particular kind of communication consulting and one-on-one communication training. Drop me a line if you like.
posted by Specklet 31 March | 19:08
Oh, for god's sake Gracie, if anyone's being an asshole it's that prick Andrew and anyone else who thinks they can relieve some tension by shouting/screaming at you. What a bunch of hosers!

You know what I'd like to do if I were in your place--take up kick boxing or something, and then at the end of the day, hit the gym and pretend that the bag is Andrew and beat the crap out of him. And then, the next day, when he's acting all coy and shit, just imagine how much fun it'll be to go back to the gym again and beat the shit out of him once more. The satisfaction of knowing that you can do irreparable bodily harm to this man will surely bring you much joy, or at least put your mind to ease.
posted by hadjiboy 31 March | 23:04
That's why I always pack heat.
posted by box 31 March | 23:06
I've had this trouble with every job. What kind of a work environment would better fit my personality? How do I find out?

Can't you get in touch with one of those people who make you take those personality tests to find out where your talents really lie, and then guide you in that direction. A Guidance Councilor? A lady I know does this and it seems to be useful to the people who go to her.
posted by hadjiboy 31 March | 23:07
He said that the solution lies within me, that I have to empathize with other people more, and that he thought he was providing support by pointing this stuff out.

empathise with other people more?

Fucking ridiculous. I spend my whole day worried about how other people are feeling and thinking
.

I can understand how that comment would have offended you.

But there is actually a difference between empathy and worrying about other people. There's an egocentric slant to the latter; you're worrying about how those feelings and thoughts impact on you, whether they're angry at you, thinking poorly of you.

Nthing what other people said above about getting therapy.

posted by jason's_planet 31 March | 23:31
Yes. Therapy.

Given the frequency with which you post these concerns here, there is obviously A Problem. That doesn't mean the problem is you, or that you're broken, or anything like that. It means there is A Problem.

Okay. There is A Problem. Who has to deal with it? Your boss? Your spouse? Your coworkers? Your internet friends? No. No no no.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I really, really don't. But BtGoG, you post about this stuff a lot. Call it a disability. Call it an illness. Call it whatever. There is A Problem. It will not be solved here. It will not be solved in your workplace. It will not be solved at all, unless YOU figure out a way to solve it and to work it all into your life.

Solving problems like that is HARD. That's what doctors and therapists are for. They help us figure out how to solve these problems that we have.

There is no shame in seeking help. There is, however, a great tragedy about NOT seeking help, and continuing to flounder and flop and thumb your nose at the good advice that has been offered here, repeatedly. (Which is, often, 'get help.')

Whatever your problems are (and look, we ALL have them), they are not insurmountable. They are not deal-breakers. They are fixable. They are fodder for support from a supportive community like Metachat. But they are NOT fixable in a Metachat sense. And honestly, you don't sound like you do much outside of Metachat to fix them.

People have been suggesting that you see a doctor or a counselor for a good long while now. (And again, not because you come off as loony, but because you repeatedly tell us how miserable you are.) You seem to ignore that advice. I won't ask you why, because you don't have to defend yourself. I will say, though, that it's baffling. You have a lot of support here. Much of it has been gently guiding you, steering you, to professional help. Which you refuse. And yet you continue to ask questions along the lines of "Am I disabled or am I an asshole?" That is not an answerable question, inasmuch as any answer to it will not help you solve your troubles. (It's an excellent question, however, if you're looking for absolution.)

So what's left? How can anyone here solve your problems? People here can be (and are) receptive to listening to your current anxieties -- and that's GREAT. But what else can be fixed here? Nada.

You are obviously a wonderful, gracious, caring, and conscientious person. And you are obviously in pain. Please seek help for it. REAL help. Do not feel bad about that. It's something many (if not most) of us here have done.

But BtGoG, Metachat cannot fix your problems. And the advice Metachatters have given you has not yet worked. So it's obvious you need something a bit more personal, immediate, in-depth.

I think everyone here wishes you well. And I won't speak for anyone other than myself, but... I'm guessing there are more than a few of us who really wish you would also get some help of the professional sort. It's difficult to watch a member of this community struggle so much, and to repeatedly look for and ask for answers where there simply aren't any.

Metachat is good for a lot of things. Support is one of them, yes. But it's not good for cures, and it's not good for mental health care. There are better places for those things. That they require money sucks, but shit -- that's the way it works.

I say this all with compassion and with fingers crossed.

Godspeed.
posted by mudpuppie 01 April | 02:16
Well, I had two unsuccessful therapists relationships in the past year. And the husband and I spent an hour last night looking for another one. His attention span isn't great for this stuff.

With the CBT therapist it was very hard to remember that stuff in the heat of the moment. And bingo, she was done with her workbook and we were done and I hadn't even mastered basic skills yet

We'll keep looking and I won't post about this here again. I'm sorry if these posts have been unpleasant to see or read.

Thanks for this ongoing conversation, folks. I have appreciated it and am very grateful.
posted by By the Grace of God 01 April | 03:21
Oops forgot to add: If anybody knows a way to get a fucking decent therapist, that would be great. I wish there were ebay seller ratings for therapists.

It would be really helpful for me if you to ask your therapists, your educators, etc. to help me find someone who is really good and isn't just phoning it in. There's got to be a better way than picking random off the internet.

In addition to trying therapy all this 2007-2008 I have made signiicant progress - talking about this stuff with my husband, actually warning the new employer before I started, and seeing this as a disability and framing it within the social model of disability. I posted about it here because this UK is a pretty reserved culture and tehre are few places to talk about it. I care about this community too much to overburden it though so I will find somewhere else to talk about such things.
posted by By the Grace of God 01 April | 03:25
Gracie, this is what I could get off of google (wouldn't you know it--but the first hit was AskMe; you could also try asking your question there sweetie).

One of the commenter's has posted a link to this site which may be helpful as well.

And here are a few threads that could also be of use.
posted by hadjiboy 01 April | 05:34
I care about this community too much to overburden it though so I will find somewhere else to talk about such things.

I hope you don't feel like you can't come here and share stuff with us Gracie, but yeah--as mudpuppie said--it really hurts when we see you in this much pain and know there's not much more that we can offer than mere words on a computer screen (which is wonderful to an extent), but, it's obviously not working.

I really hope someone can get a good doctor for you to get in touch with.
posted by hadjiboy 01 April | 05:45
I care about this community too much to overburden it though so I will find somewhere else to talk about such things.
Don't you dare!
posted by dg 01 April | 07:26
I have been getting some hard looks today || Three-point update for Monday Mar. 31st.

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