Right on. Or pet your dog or go for a run or read a good book.

For most people, life doesn't get better. As a matter of fact, it gets progressively worse. However, most of us get better at dealing with bad things at a greater rate than our life becomes bad, so we feel ahead of the game. We might be fooling ourselves, but from the inside looking out, the sun is still shining.

The lucky ones blow smoke up our asses. Sometimes we blow smoke up our own asses.

I have a suicidal godson who I've been writing letters to, trying to let him know that negative thoughts aren't the end of the world. He gets bullied. I think my way through some dark places every day, some darker places every week, some really dark places every month. Do I tell him it gets better?

I don't blow smoke up his ass. I tell him he has control. You can always float away, something will keep you alive. Sun shines through the cracks. You do what you can, and when things get burdensome you just have to stay stronger than your load.

The trick for me is acknowledging the trouble, admitting the hurt, letting the horror of the everyday play out as it will, and then shouldering that pack and finding the sunshine. A wise man named Fashawn once told me "Dance through the misery and sorrow, and fuck yesterday. I'm living for tomorrow."

It's been easier since I'm not alone, but its still a heavy burden. And what do I say to the kid? I wish him luck, and I hope he's strong enough for a long drag up a tough track. I hope perspective comes quick and never fails him.

I guess that's not really what you're talking about, Firas, but that's how my negative thoughts play lately.

bearwife: exactly

hugh: that's tough stuff. Thanks for writing that out.

Right now I'm grappling with lighter stuff--vague feelings of guilt, regret, anxiety--but those darker paths have heard my footsteps as well. I was just thinking right now that my mind has generated enough moroseness and melancholy over the last decade to last a lifetime. It's kinda weird, from an evolutionary standpoint, you'd think there's some purpose to the brain creating these states, but for whatever reason it is often an added burden instead of something useful.

I'm glad you're no longer alone. I am orienting my life towards more of an 'outward' perspective these days, I think that helps to some degree. Being with other people, being in more places, just having more going on can reorient a person to some degree.

... my mind has generated enough moroseness and melancholy over the last decade to last a lifetime. It's kinda weird, from an evolutionary standpoint, you'd think there's some purpose to the brain creating these states, but for whatever reason it is often an added burden instead of something useful.
I figure that this is our brain's way of reminding us that, just because things may look good right now, they're bound to get worse before long, so don't get too complacent or let your guard down. This may have been useful when our life challenges were constant, physical and mostly life-threatening, which gave us an outlet and justification for feeling that way. In our modern world, it seems that this constant state of preparedness for calamity continues to build up inside us because there's no pressure relief valve in the form of actual calamity. I think the idea of simply evaluating whether we are doing what we need to do and, if we are, just letting those feeling drift away is great. How to get your mind into that state is where it gets hard, though.

I like what Chief Bromden said about suicide in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, after another patient at the psych hospital killed himself by cutting his own balls off and bleeding out: “What makes people so impatient is what I can't figure; all the guy had to do was wait."

you can't think your way out of negative feelings

This is legitimately true, to the point where it's a cornerstone of therapy. You can't think your way out of problems not caused by thought. It's tempting to try to apply the thought-tool to every problem, but it just bounces off. Go at it obliquely, or like others say, just be patient.

I think things get actually better in some concrete ways. Some things get worse but not all things. and we're all headed for death anyway, no need to rush it.

I'm always interested in the interplay between physical state and mental state. I say physical state, not emotional state, because emotions have physical impact, they can make your jaw clench, your heart race, they can make you feel gutshot or giddy. Maybe you're not always aware of your physical state, but your body is always there feeling something even if your conscious mind isn't paying attention, and its affected by it. But also your thoughts can influence the physical state right back.

Some people don't like to think certain things because it makes them feel bad and they stop thinking right there. Some people turn their thoughts towards things that make them feel good. It's like you are feeding yourself emotional states by what you think.

I used to have awful jaw and neck pain, and I noticed that when I was thinking certain things my jaw was clenched, my face was like a rictus of pain, and when I noticed that I would force myself to do relaxation exercises, and the pain went away. I don't know if it has helped my depression but it is a structure for me to think of better than anything I've got from therapy or medication.

I don't want to sound new-agey pop psychology crap, I'm just saying that I think it's helpful to stop and pay attention to your physical state now and then. Maybe you're hungry, maybe you're thirsty, maybe there's a niggling pain that has been messing with your thoughts this whole time. I think it can help you feel a little better and think a little better, stop trying to reach big conclusions for a second and listen to what your body is telling you..

Just babbling, sorry.

Dystopian stuff helps me ( The Corner / not dystopia, but ... / , The Road, survival aspects of if The Walking Dead were reality ) to not really feel 'better'; but to perhaps not feel, or not feel as ?bad? / ?dumpy?.

Ok with life as it is,,, and sometimes stuff like the above does like you said, ~just lets it fade away.

And Maslow can always be a fall back also... things could be much worse, and they really aren't bad once some of the basics are accounted for.

enough moroseness and melancholy over the last decade to last a lifetime. I can echo that, with a generous helping of anxiety. I am usually able to manage with a combination of patience and drugs, but I've been depressed and anxious and stressed since my son became an adolescent(12+ years ago), followed by severe job stress. Lots of things in my life kind of suck right now, but I'm lucky enough to know it will change. I'm willing to get up every day because I have friends, a terrific dog, and live in a place that offers nature, sunshine, and beauty. The sunshine is inconsistent, but when the sky is clear, the sun helps, and then the night sky is inspiring. Some things get better, some worse, you never know what random events the universe will send your way. I kind of need to shake up my world, but I'm so exhausted that it seems far too difficult. I need a new job, and job-hunting in your late 50s is extra-special rejecto-land, so I have to hang on to the things I value most.

Hugh, please read Art Kleiner's How Not to Commit Suicide, and maybe share it with your godson. I sent it to my brother when he was in his 40s, his life seemed like a train wreck to him, and he was seriously suicidal. He said it helped him choose to live.

Hey Firas, in my experience it's absolutely true that the solution to some problems is less analysis. From your comments I get the vibe that for you, like for me when I was younger, that's not an obvious route.
There are some activities that are worthwhile in themselves. I.e. not for an ulterior or later purpose. Those are a great antidote in my experience.
What those are differs person by person. For some it's sports, others making music or other activities that leave no room for analysis and reflection. Like theater f.i.


Hugues, I didn't realise you've been circled by dark demons. Your comments usually seem rather cheerful. *)
I think it's wonderful that you try to provide your godson with some tools to deal with life.
And the same to Empress Theodora.


*) I considered using the word droll but that would sound rather arch I guess. (as a 2nd language speaker those subtle tone differences are hard to get right)
Btw I think your comments come across as very personable. So from somebody from a different continent who has no idea what you look like, where you live etc that's a little feather in your cap. :-)

I agree that doing things just because can help, if only by taking your mind away from things that are bothering you for a while. It's easy to get into a state of endlessly feeling bad about your life and the more you think about it, the more those feelings build on themselves. An activity that is just engaging enough to stop you thinking without needing much thought in itself can be great therapy at times.

great thoughts, all. I'm feeling much better now than when I posted this thread a couple days ago which I guess proves the point about just waiting it out sometimes

dg: yeah I figure it's like that, a difference in environments

Pips: that is such a great line. thanks

Miko: that's interesting about it being a basic concept in therapy. I guess some of these things are universally useful to know

fleacircus: you are so right. I made a couple threads about realizing this a few months ago: one, two. Even something simple like breathing deeply can help sometimes

buzzman: that is so true about Maslow! Hey, if you have a roof, a full stomach, and aren't in physical pain, you're doing pretty well in a way.

theora: hugs. Also, I actually read that article many years ago! Another thing that helped me back then was this page: "it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now."

jouke: yeah. I need to take up some of those activities where you can just "be". It also ties into the fact that I want to spend more time doing more experiential things vs just talking about things...