MetaChat - Hip-Hop

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15 October 2007

Hip-Hop has an (often deserved) reputation for being something of a boy's club, and even outright misogyny. Ironically, one of the most consistent hit-making machines in the genre consisted of three tough, sexy broads from Queens...→[More:]

Yes, I'm talking about Salt & Pepa. In a male-dominated genre they've survived trends and fads due to dope beats, catch rhymes and the fact that for flat-out ranchy sexual agression, they outdid most of the guys, turning most of the typical rock-and-roll gender scenarios on their heads, with fantastic (and crazy danceable) results.

YouTube roundup:
Push It: the hit that started it all. Rarely, if ever, had sexuality this raw from females (with the female in the aggressor's role) hit the top forty. Which opened up whole territory. And that keyboard riff didn't hurt either.
Whatta Man: this number takes a sample from Lynda Lyndell's blue-eyed soul classic and turns the 'hey, baby' riff inside out and (not incidentally) provides hip-hop with a much need definition of manhood apart from thuggery. And En Vogue's backup singing is a great bit of lagniappe.
Shoop
Another rewrite of the streetcorner come-on, but here they make the protagonists of 'The Wanderer' and 'Young Blood' for instance, look like homebodies.
None Of Your Business: the crown jewel in their ouevre. This number looks at a society full of busybodied moralists and delivers an eloquent smackdown.

Getting these sentiments into the top 40 constitutes a triumph of sorts. And that's to say nothing of the killer grooves and sweet flow. Thanks ladies.

post by: jonmc at: 12:23 | 28 comments

Those fours songs you've mentioned? I can sing each one perfectly, a capella. Shoop is something of an anthem among my gurlz.

You know they've got a reality show coming up, right?

And that they regret the lyric "If she / Wanna be a freak 'n'/ Sell it on the weekend / None of your business"... which is too bad.

posted by Ambrosia Voyeur 15 October | 12:55

I *heart* Salt'n'Pepa.

Odd timing here though, jonmc. Do you read Entertainment Weekly? :-D

posted by WolfDaddy 15 October | 13:07

Nope. For some reason they just popped into my head.

(I do think these songs affected a whole generation of male libidos, though. Instead of fantasizing about being aggresive studs, a lot of us fantasized about being the dudes they rapped about is 'Shoop,' or 'Whatta Man.' Not that most of us were, but hey it's the thought that counts, I guess)

posted by jonmc 15 October | 13:10

"None of Your Business" was popular in the California gay clubs I frequented nearly (ulp!) fifteen years ago. It was somewhat of an anthem at the time. Also a HELLuva lot fun to dance to. Though I must say out of the four you mention, "Whatta Man" is my favorite.

posted by WolfDaddy 15 October | 13:15

I've thought about it and I figure white rock's (I consider hip-hop part of rock and roll) closest equivalent would be The Donnas.

"None of Your Business" was popular in the California gay clubs

well, for obvious reasons.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 13:18

Pretty Phat Girls

posted by eekacat 15 October | 13:40

Indeed. (Based on my very limited experience, and some common sense, which is to say that I could be wrong,) compared to the hip-hop audience as a whole, gay listeners seem to be a lot more interested in female rappers, songs about sex and dance-oriented tracks.

My favorite Salt-n-Pepa song is 'Tramp.' Otis and Carla samples, natch.

posted by box 15 October | 13:41

Indeed. (Based on my very limited experience, and some common sense, which is to say that I could be wrong,) compared to the hip-hop audience as a whole, gay listeners seem to be a lot more interested in female rappers, songs about sex and dance-oriented tracks.

Plus 'None of Your Business' is the exact right answer to homophobes.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 13:44

That's what you say now, but wait until you hear the clever new lyrics in my parody version of 'Freaky Tales.'

posted by box 15 October | 13:51

I like the fact that you used the word 'lagniappe' in a piece about Salt & Pepa.

posted by chuckdarwin 15 October | 14:04

Heh. I hadn't thought of the 'spice' thing. Just seemed like a good way to describe En Vogue's contribution.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 14:09

I consider hip-hop part of rock and roll

Even coming from you, that's a provocative statement. I don't really care because I don't like hip hop much. What's your reasoning?

posted by chuckdarwin 15 October | 14:11

It's rhthym based vernacular pop music. That's rock and roll to me. (I do realize that my definition may differ from others, but it's a spiritual connection to me. As Flavor Flav said 'Rap is rock and roll, coz we be rockin' as we rollin'")

posted by jonmc 15 October | 14:25

chuck: I don't know if you've read this already, but click this link and keep clicking 'next' at the bottom to move forward (there's streaming audio with each entry, too, to give context). It gives a better bedrock for my musical philosophy in conversations like this. In fact that's part of the reason I did it.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 14:29

Vernacular rhythm-based pop music?

Spiritual connection?

I might as well say it--I don't think hip-hop music is rock music. I like hip-hop music very much.

posted by box 15 October | 14:39

I don't think hip-hop music is rock music.

It isn't. It's rock and roll, which is the umbrella both rock and hip-hop fall under. But that's just my persoanl view of things. I'm not asking anyone else to endorse it, but the connections are there.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 14:43

I think hip-hop is rock and roll, too; but then, I also think Louis Armstrong is rock and roll. It's about frontmen, purpose, and abandon to me.

Liszt, too. He knew what it's all about.

posted by Hugh Janus 15 October | 14:46

What else falls under the 'rock and roll' umbrella, then? Is all vernacular rhythm-based pop music rock and roll? Vice versa?

I'm working on a Venn diagram here.

posted by box 15 October | 14:52

A real old-time purist would say all these forms are due to jazz... My old Music History professor would say that all these styles are essentially Folk, in that they aren't 'serious music' (symphonic, choral, operatic, orchestral, chamber, etc).

It's like 'football'. Originally, any sport not played on horseback was called 'football'. Poor people played it, if you get me. Folk is anything that isn't 'concert' music.

...not that I agree. I just wanted to offer the perspective that there are really only two types of music to some folks.

posted by chuckdarwin 15 October | 14:53

Cool blog. Cheers for the link. Mine is a little more erratic.

posted by chuckdarwin 15 October | 14:56

I just wanted to offer the perspective that there are really only two types of music to some folks.

Well, of course... good and bad!

posted by Hugh Janus 15 October | 14:58

A real old-time purist would say all these forms are due to jazz

actually jazz grew out of blues, from my listening.

My old Music History professor would say that all these styles are essentially Folk, in that they aren't 'serious music' (symphonic, choral, operatic, orchestral, chamber, etc).

I hate the term 'folk music' with the passion of a thousand suns, and the idea of 'serious music' even more.

What else falls under the 'rock and roll' umbrella, then? Is all vernacular rhythm-based pop music rock and roll? Vice versa?

Like I said, box, it's my own personal vision of things, not a law I'm laying down, but to my ears Louis Armstrong, Chuck Berry, Hank Williams. Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Ramones, Funkadelic and Public Enemey are all part of one big whole. They are more alike than they are different.

posted by jonmc 15 October | 15:01

For the sake of contrast, I'd like to offer the following from another female rapper: Lady Sovereign.

posted by mullacc 15 October | 15:12

Everybody loves contrast. Here's a song that features one of my favorite female hip-hop artists: Georgia Anne Muldrow.

posted by box 15 October | 15:15

What a fun thread this turned out to be! Hip-hop may or may not be a subset of rock'n'roll, but if that's the case you'll be hard pressed to explain many hip-hop artist's sampling of rock songs for their own stuff. Hell, Run DMC/Aerosmith works just fine now doesn't it?

posted by WolfDaddy 15 October | 15:40

It's all punk. Unless you're a sellout.

(n.b. i know nothing, i grew up on classical.)

posted by casarkos 15 October | 18:51

Salt n' Pepa were fantastic in their day. I remember back when 'Push It' had broken big, my (three years older than I) sister and her two friends did a lip sync to it at an all nighter at our Tae Kwon Do studio. I was in charge of turning the volume down on the jukebox during the word "pissed". Random memory, but a good one, nonetheless.

I've a love/hate relationship with her, but Queen Latifah's U.N.I.T.Y. was just as important (if not as successful) in the same time frame.

I can't stand Lady Sovereign (sorry, mullacc), but for those looking for current-day female rappers (and I'd like to discover some new ones myself), you'd be wise to look up some Jean Grae in the usual places (her collaboration with Cannibal Ox on the song Swing Blades is in the top ten of my iTunes playlist. e-mail me if you want a copy of the .mp3).

posted by ufez 15 October | 19:59

(n.b. i know nothing, i grew up on classical.)

Some would say that means you know everything... and that all this 'pop' stuff is ephemeral.

posted by chuckdarwin 17 October | 15:52

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