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28 September 2007

At what point to you give up on someone/cut them out of your life? Long story inside.→[More:]A good friend of mine has, over the past six months or so, basically degenerated into a very unstable and difficult person to deal with. She's going through a sort of crisis as her boyfriend who was living here for a year had to leave to go back home (which happens to be thousands of miles away), but as much as I have tried to support her she seems determined to hurt me. She has mentioned that she just wants to isolate herself and not have to deal with anyone, but I didn't think this would mean she was going to set her sights on attacking me.

This was the friend that was going to get an apartment with me this month. I spent a summer living in a somewhat uncomfortable, temporary living situation with strangers so that we could get our place when she was ready in Sept. At the end of July she started picking fights with me because I didn't like a couple of the places we saw (which went against the areas to live in or other factors I was looking for). Eventually I just asked her what her problem was and with a month to spare she said she didn't want to get a place together, giving some pretty lame reasons. I told her I wasn't happy about it but I would rather lose her as a roommate than as a friend. This left me scrambling to get my own apartment, one that was available and I could afford. She never apologized about this or acknowledged all the crap I'd had to go through all summer (including having to keep all my stuff in my uncle's house and inconveniencing him).

After that disaster I told her I wasn't really prepared to hang out with her for a while, and that I needed some time to deal with everything. We chatted online still and things seemed generally ok. I still hung out with her boyfriend who I've become good friends with, and a few times we discussed her tendency to push people quite violently (metaphorically speaking) out of her life and isolate herself when she's unhappy. She doesn't have a lot of people in her life and I am now beginning to see why.

I finally found an apartment after getting rejected for many of the dozens I went and saw. My friend never really had much to say about this nor acknowledged her part in it. She found her place pretty much immediately because she has access to a lot more resources and was looking in an easier part of town (further away from downtown). When we were moving she ended up having a big moving crisis, which ended up with me allowing her to move all of her furniture alongside all of my stuff into my microscopic apartment. This was supposed to be for 24 hours but ended up being for 4days. I did a lot of lifting of her quite heavy furniture and ended up doing a lot of damage to my back. We shared a mover, who took about 30 minutes to move my stuff into my apartment. I paid for an hour of their time and decided to call it even. I couldn't even move in my own apartment for four days and had only space to sleep on a mattress on the floor.

At the end, she thanked me but acted like somehow I had owed her all of this in the first place. She let me keep a few small pieces of furniture that wouldn't fit into her apartment and kept trumpeting the fact that she was paying for everything (despite having paid my share). When I saw her during moving she just wanted to ramble on about her boyfriend and how it was his fault and was unable of understanding that anyone else had things going on in their lives.

Other than moving we haven't seen each other, except for getting together for a beer a couple of nights ago and chatting online. Then, last night, she ambushed me while I was getting ready for bed to say that something I had said earlier had been rude (this was not a personal comment but rather my "tone" and it was completely unintended). I apologized and she went on to say she understood if I didn't want to be her friend, then proceeded to dredge up something that happened six months ago that I did to hurt her feelings. I got really upset and told her that she can't hold things in for six months and then blow up on someone and expect them to do anything to make up for it. She criticized me personally including saying I am bad at my job (the thing six months ago was work related) and the most thoughtless person she knows. I've been going through a very hard time lately, and I asked her why she would do this to me when I am hurting right now and she basically said that she didn't want to wait until my hard times were over any longer, and implied she was only my friend out of pity.

To put this in perspective, this is the girl who took me out for a beer two days ago to say thank you for everything I've done for her, and we had a good time laughing and chatting (and mainly talking about her and her problems). She's been chatty and happy with me and making plans to do all these fun things in the upcoming weeks. I thought we had finally gotten over the whole "not moving" thing and now she suddenly hates me? And has been secretly mad at me for months? I said that I felt like this was due to her current depression about her bf leaving and the related relationship problems she's having, and she said that was not the case at all. I don't buy it but what can I do? I feel like she's willing to use anything as an excuse to fight me, and I don't even have the energy for this.

After she made it clear she was on the attack, I defended myself and said some things that I wish I hadn't (mostly pointing out that I'm one of a small handful of friends she has in the first place). But now I'm wondering if I am going to get over this. I don't know if she's going to apologize and plead insanity or whatever (she does this with her BF all the time) but I am not sure if I can forgive and forget after all of this. When someone hurts you, what's your forgiveness policy?

post by: SassHat at: 07:12 | 18 comments

When someone hurts you, what's your forgiveness policy?

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

I had to let a 10-year friendship go after agonising over it for months. I last spoke to her on the phone in January after she talked for 90 minutes about what she'd done for Christmas without once asking me what I'd done. When I was able to get a word in edgeways and mentioned I'd been to Ohio she said "You kept that quiet". Well, maybe if she'd asked when we spoke in December I'd have told her, but she didn't. It was all her-her-her.

Yes, people go through hard times and it's at times like that they need to lean on friends. But it can't all be one-sided.

It sounds like a toxic relationship you're in with your friend. It took me a long while to cut off all contact with my so-called friend, but I'm glad I did. It's always been hard for me to make friends, and I've tried to work hard to keep the friendships I've made, sometimes at great personal cost to my own self-esteem. The good friends I have now are the ones who don't make demands on me, but who know they can call on me if they need to, and vice versa.

posted by essexjan 28 September | 07:31

Sass, I'm sorry you're going through a rough time with your friend.

Just a few points: It sounds like she really is emotionally unstable at this point. And when a person is feeling really lousy, it's easy for her to push people away and behave rudely, even cruelly. (Is she in therapy? You might suggest -- and know in advance this will make her mad -- that she bring this up with her therapist. Let her know that her behavior has been extremely hurtful and that you know she's in pain, want to be there for her, etc., but are having a hard time being on the receiving end of her anger.)

If she's getting help and she's willing to address the issue, shine it on for a little longer. Distance yourself a bit, let her know that you want to be her friend and you're there for her if she needs you, but that you are hurt and need her to work on the way she treats others. Make it clear that you know she's hurting inside, and that you're not pushing her away because of that but because of specific behaviors.

If she is unwilling to get help, unwilling to admit she has been hurtful, unwilling to work on her behavior -- then it's time to completely move away from her for awhile. I say this as someone who is probably more like your friend than like you. (I suffer from depression, anxiety and PTSD, and I've been pushing people away for years because of it. It's injured or ended a lot of friendships for me, both because of my behavior and, in some cases, because my friends could not be understanding. Note that I've never been rude or cruel to my friends, just closed off and liable to cancel plans or not return phone calls for weeks on end.)

How long have you been friends? Take that into consideration. Ending a friendship is never easy, and looking back on it years later you may think it was truly unfortunate.

What I'm saying is this: Entertain all other options first. End a friendship only if it's become clear that your friend is unwilling to change her behaviors toward you.

Hope it all works out for the best.

posted by brina 28 September | 07:33

I'd say some distance is in order for awhile.

Then a good long talk with all cards on the table.

Then? Up to you.

posted by bunnyfire 28 September | 07:42

OK, my take on it:
Sounds like you've been quite reasonable and bent over backwards to accommodate her. Has she done the same for you? Doesn't sound like it. If you're not willing to admit to yourself that the relationship isn't working any longer, what are you waiting for? If you can answer that you've reached that pivotal point, then that's your path. (Or, at least a long cooling off period while she gets her act together.)

You will have friends come and go throughout your life. Sometimes it's difficult to let one go because you feel disloyal or perhaps that you're not a good enough friend.

I've had to break off friendship with someone I was really in synch with for a long time, then it became a using situation - where I was doing most of the giving and getting who knows what in return. Fortunately, I disengaged from it. I never did make any statement of the fact, just quit responding to requests to help out. I could contact her today if I wanted, but don't need to do that any longer.

A fishing metaphor comes to mind: Someone keeping your interest by throwing out just enough lures to keep you biting the hook, throwing you back, then baiting again….

You sound like a giver, as am I. Others tend to take advantage of my good nature, and I don’t even realize it when it’s happening. I’m OK with that for the most part. But, there are times when you do have to look into your soul and determine your needs and do what’s necessary. If you can detach a bit and look at it as an outside observer, what would you advise as a course of action?

So Sorry you're having this turmoil.

posted by mightshould 28 September | 07:54

My guiding principle for such matters is that it's one thing to have problems - everyone does, after all - but it's quite another to use those problems as license to treat others like crap. So if a friend needs space, no problem. If a friend is selfishly demanding and inconsiderate and dishonest, this is not acceptable. All relationships need to have some sort of balance in terms of giving and getting, or they quickly become unhealthy.

I'd let this one slide, at least for awhile. It's a big, populous world. There are lots of other people for you to spend time with. And there's a Toronto meetup coming up;-)

posted by Orange Swan 28 September | 08:19

The world is packed with people. There are probably several thousand people who you might run into who are as manipulative, hurtful, and damaging as your friend. There are many, many more who would make good friends.

She's just not a good friend anymore. Whatever it was that was cool about her is gone. I wouldn't even bother saying anything (doing so is like a MeTa flameout, just asking for trouble).

You can always remember the good times, before she went poisonous. She's been an asshole to you for months. Don't bother talking it out.

I'm sure she'll call after awhile wondering why you don't talk to her anymore. What's your answer? Well, I hate to put words in your mouth, but something along the lines of "I don't want to talk to you," sums it up. Surely she'll ask why, then I'd say, "It's not fair to bring up specific instances, but you've treated me too poorly for too long for me to want your friendship, so I've stopped making the effort."

See, when a friend treats you like shit, they actually lower themselves on the friendship scale to a point below even people you haven't met, because they've betrayed you. It ends up being more worthwhile to make new friends; the baseline is higher for strangers than it is for unfriendly friends, and face it, even if you repair your relationship, try as you might you will never forget what she's capable of and you'll always be wary of the possibility that she'll turn on you again. Much better to play the new friend lottery. There's nowhere to go but up.

It's like summer reading. You get the new Tom Clancy book, you start it, and it's humming along for the first five or ten chapters, and you know it's stupid and poorly written but hey, it's summer, and then you get to the inevitable plot flaw that has you ready to throw the book into the fire in disgust. Some people keep reading out of some sense of duty. Fuck it. It's summer, you're reading for fun, and Tom Clancy sucks. Burn it.

I don't sound very sympathetic. I am, though; I'm sorry your friend has turned so unfriendly and done so much to hurt you. I don't like giving advice, because I know everyone's different and has different reasons and processes, reactions and actions. Mine would be to end it.

posted by Hugh Janus 28 September | 08:55

SassHat, what a drama. I'm sorry you are going through this. Most of us have had experiences like this.

I agree with what others have said upthread. Sounds like a dysfunctional relationship with an emotionally unstable person. Your friend is obviously going through a rough time. Rather than severing all ties, why not take a little break and think about it?

I cut ties with a friend and I regret it at times. My friend was a great person, a fun person, a caring person at her core, but extremely draining and selfish at times. Most of the time I felt like I was in a one-sided relationship. I never told her I was cutting ties. We never had a conversation declaring, "the friendship is over" but it was implied when I didn't accept an invitation to her wedding.

I understand why my friend behaved the way she did. I understand why she was a hypochondriac. I understand why she needed constant attention from men. At the time I couldn't take it any longer and decided to "end" the friendship. At the time, I just couldn't go to another wedding. The entire thing was ridiculous to me. I was fed up and over it.

Looking back, I can't help to wonder if I was too judgemental. It's very sad. I miss her sometimes. She has a child who is probably close to two years old. I've bumbed into her here and there. We've always been nice and civil. Six months ago I saw her again in a restaurant and she apologized to me. There was no need for an apology. I told her so, and I told her that my own hangups were partly to blame why we were no longer friends. She told me that there were so many times when she wanted to pick up the phone and call me. We said goodbye and I haven't seen her since. Her mother saw my husband in town and said it was such a shame that we weren't friends any longer. town. We could probably reconnect, but I'm not so sure it's a good idea.

Think about your friendship for a little while. When she isn't in boyfriend crisis, does she enrich your life? Do you enjoy your time together? Is there an equal amount of give and take?

Good luck SassHat.

posted by LoriFLA 28 September | 09:19

Brina pretty much said everything I would have said, so.... what brina said. :-)

Make sure you take care of yourself.

posted by occhiblu 28 September | 09:29

I have some things to add. In my life, I've cut off a handful of people because they started to feel, for lack of a better word, toxic. I actually did it recently, over a friendship in which I felt I was doing the vast majority of the work involved in maintaining the relationship.

Shortly after making the cut-off decision, I started to feel really awful about it - not because of what the other person was feeling, but because I wondered why I had done this in the past three or four times. I started working on it in therapy, and with the help of my counselor I've started to see this as an issue of boundaries and self-respect. In the past, I had failed to set healthy boundaries, and let people who were not meeting my needs, or in fact, actively harming me, get too far. I would continue to labor at the relationship and construe everything disappointing that they did as an indication that I was somehow not communicating enough, not good enough, whatever. I would redouble my efforts and continue to pick up more than my share of the emotional labor. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that when a 'last straw' arrived I was acting out of deep resentment, hurt, and anger that I had been harboring for months, simply because I had been unable, much earlier, to say "Here is what I am willing to do to maintain this friendship/relationship. The rest of the job is yours. If you don't do it in a way that meets my needs, I'll treat you fine but at an appropriate level of intimacy, and then put my energy elsewhere."

So I'm learning that by focusing more on what my needs are in relationships, rather than subsuming them to others' needs, I can be really calm and clear about what's working and what isn't with other people long before I have to cut them off at the knees.

I don't know if any of this is helpful to you, but it might be useful to reflect that focusing too much on what others are doing or needing, and not enough on yourself, can create this destructive resentment.

And what I realize now is that I have burned some bridges that I didn't have to, because I wasn't paying much attention to the earlier problems in the relationship, assuming they were with me, when they weren't. Look at things like why you offered your apartment for furniture storage and why you let it continue longer than you wanted it to. What if you let your friend own her own issues, and asked yourself what you need in order to maintain a sane, calm friendship?

posted by Miko 28 September | 09:41

Your post reads thusly (and I don't mean to be coldhearted, just objective):

RESENTMENT
Justifications for said resentment
1.
2.
3.
etc.
AMIRITE?

It really doesn't matter if you're completely, 100% justified in your resentment. The other person doesn't get it - probably not out of malice, but out of their own ignorance. The real question is what's right for you? What will reduce your own stress over this situation? Your options are 1) forgive & accept this person is kind of an insensitive flake; 2) write her off; 3) continue to expect her to act consistently and respectfully (and thus build up more resentment when you're inevitably disappointed).

posted by desjardins 28 September | 09:55

Oh, and learn to trust your own judgment. You can spend far too many hours wondering "Am I being unreasonable about situation X?" that you could have spent LIVING.

posted by desjardins 28 September | 09:57

I'm rather brutal about giving people the boot if they become more trouble than it's worth. Here's why: I've been extremely fortunate to have quite a few really, really good close friends that I treasure and I feel that any time and energy I expend on fostering dead-end, one-sided relationships is time and energy better spent cultivating my healthy relationships. If dealing with someone makes me sad, grumpy and generally miserable, that affects the "good" people in my life and that's not fair.

So I say, if you've got other good, strong friendships, honor those and chop the deadweight. Chop. Chop. Chop.

posted by jrossi4r 28 September | 10:07

You mention, several times, that she hasn't acknowledged how much trouble you've had to go through because she pulled out, and you also mention several times that she hasn't thanked you or hasn't apologized for various things. It sounds like you have a lot of built-up resentment because you don't feel valued. If you're a person who really values being appreciated and she's oblivious to your needs and takes people for granted, it's not going to be an enjoyable friendship.

posted by iconomy 28 September | 10:34

There are always certain people that will try to impede your progress in life that successful people refer to as "losers", CROSS THEM OUT OF YOUR LIFE!

posted by mullacc 28 September | 10:37

In your shoes, I would withdraw for a while. I wouldn't make a statement about cutting off contact or tell the person "you're toxic!", just quietly pull back a bit.

If the friend asked, I'd be honest. I'd say "Listen, your behavior X and Y inconvenienced me and hurt me, and I need some space [distance/ breathing room/ time to think/ whatever]."

These days, I'd be more likely to let an oppressive friendship cool down than to cut it off. Perhaps in a month or two, your friend will shake off whatever's going on and come to you in genuine friendship, instead of abusing your generosity.

[I'm taking your statement at face value, though in my own experience it's rarely as one-sided as this. Miko's remarks cut me to the freakin' bone, I tell you. The person she describes is me from childhood until age 30... and a little bit even now. I'm learning.]

posted by Elsa 28 September | 10:50

I haven't read all the comments in their entirety so I apologize for repeating anything already said.

I have been in your place and I have made the difficult decision to burn bridges. It may be that you need to do that with this friend.

That said, I didn't read anything about any overtures or attempts to heal the obvious rift. Even if you don't think you did anything wrong, I would make an effort to hash this out with your friend. If at that time, she isn't forthcoming or there is a complete lack of depth, understanding, compassion, unconditional acceptance...

Well, then what is there?

posted by Lola_G 28 September | 12:14

I don't know, Sass. In my case -- well, I've never explicitly fired a friend. Occasionally I've realized it was no longer useful to try to engage with someone, and stopped making any effort to do so. In all but one case, the person reappeared, having sorted out whatever was behind the crazy behavior, and resumed some sort of active role in my life (though rarely as closely as before). The one remaining case didn't reappear and probably never will. That's ok too.

My only quibble with brina's excellent advice is the following:

you are hurt and need her to work on the way she treats others

The "way she treats others" is just a tad too abstract for me. I'd simply say that I'm not willing to be treated that way. How she deals with other people -- not me, I mean -- isn't my problem.

posted by tangerine 28 September | 15:25

Give her my number. I could use a new friend, since HJ's traded up. ; )

posted by Pips 28 September | 18:17

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