I got a very strong sense of my abilities (whatever they are) and my life being wasted. Not that there's anything wrong with wasting your life, but there have to be less tedious ways to do it.

So you admit you have abilities. How long have you been waiting for the layoff thing now? Too long. For Pete's sake, look for something else while you are waiting, at least. As in all things, you don't have control over Dumbco. You only have control of yourself, your choices and actions.

Me, my choice, after this, I'm not reading anymore dumco posts. Of course you can keep making them, that's your choice. See how it works?

I'd suggest writing a sitcom about your life, but Ricky Gervais already did it.

As in all things, you don't have control over Dumbco. You only have control of yourself, your choices and actions.

Well, sure. I can quit and starve. Or find another job, which, given my lack of qualifications, will be something equally tedious. So, I have to vent about it or I'll go insane.

Oh come on, I doubt pips would let you starve.

So you're waiting to wait to figure out what you are going to do, which at first, sounded like a sweet plan. It just might be time for a new plan. Tough love, is all, sweetzie.

Do it! Get your resume together, sign up for that class, jot down the plan. Whatever. Just quit fucking around. Quit making excuses. Only you can change your life. You sound like Dante "I'm not even supposed to be here today" Hicks in "Clerks". Fine for a movie, but you don't want to be Dante "I'm not even supposed to be here today" Hicks in "Clerks".

The world needs you. Jump off the cliff already. We will not let you starve - I'll e-mail you peanut butter, and you can make bread from the pizza place's leftover dough.

You complain about being underqualified. What's stopping you from getting said qualifications? For whatever you'd rather be doing?

Get your resume together,

My resume consists of DumbCo and entry level retail.

sign up for that class,

I didn't like school the first time around post 4th grade, and I posess just enough self-knowledge to know I'd fuck it up, or hitch my wagon to the wrong horse as I am prone to doing (last company I worked for closed all it's stores, DumbCo's heading in the same direction or worse. I have shitty instincts).

you don't want to be Dante "I'm not even supposed to be here today" Hicks in "Clerks".

heh.
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The world needs you.

Actually, the last thing the world needs is another know-it-all quipster. I'll figure something out eventually, since one way or another, I always survive, but right now, I gotta bitch.

I think that maybe the well of Dumbco sympathy has run dry, jon. People would love to be supportive behind anything you might do to improve your situation, but not so much the same old stories about how Dumbco is so dumb, and 50 reasons why you could never, ever possibly do better than that.

You have no choices because you give yourself no choices; you can't succeed because you will never try. Stop that.

WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO WITH YOUR LIIFFE??!
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As some people in the biz say, you're not very "commercial", jonmc. Perhaps this is a good thing in the end, but it's not going to help you work in a profit-driven enterprise. Especially a small-ish one where all the employees are exposed to the corporate machinations.

When I think of jonmc I don't think of a cubicle-monkey, but more like "cabbie in Vegas" or "bartender at a dive bar" or, obviously, radio DJ/music critic. Or perhaps "traveling pickled egg salesman."

finally! give it 'im good, guys!

When I think of jonmc I don't think of a cubicle-monkey, but more like "cabbie in Vegas" or "bartender at a dive bar" or, obviously, radio DJ/music critic. Or perhaps "traveling pickled egg salesman."

well, obviously DJ would be a dream, but in today's worrld that's about as practical as deciding to become a blacksmith or telegraph operator, and me bartending would be like hiring a mouse as security in a cheese factory.

You have no choices because you give yourself no choices; you can't succeed because you will never try.

You're probably right, that it is just me, ultimately. But you can't really change someone's nature.

But you can't really change someone's nature.

Are you referring to us or yourself? If you're referring to us, you're right, we can't change you. If you're referring to yourself, you're full of shit. Plenty of people change. The first step is wanting to. You could change your life- if you wanted to.

jonmc, you're obviously a guy with some brains. And from various things I've read that you've posted, you've put together a cogent role for your life, based on personal history (school dis-like, punk attitude, musical interests), family history (Uncle Mike vs. your Dad, etc.), and other factors (appearance, fashion taste, etc.). It all kinda fits together in a post-punk NYC urban hipster kinda way.

But you're getting older, and like an aging Hollywood actress, it's getting harder to be older and still play young. You need some new strategies more than you need a soapbox. You need to feel good about yourself, more than you need to be the salt of the earth.

Here's a strategy, perhaps not a novel one, or one that has particular appeal for you, but one which has some prospect of helping you formulate a personalized interest inventory, in better fashion than the classic drunkard's walk through life you've been relying on:

Try some personality and vocational testing and interpretation with a qualified psychologist or career coach [not that the particular random Google link I've put here is your particular salvation, or one I've had any personal experience with]. There's at least a sixty year history of broadly administered vocational testing in the U.S. (since WWII), and some of the tools out there are not only very mature, but pretty specific in their recommendations, based on the broadness of their application, and extensive norming. You tie that in with someone qualified to discuss results in terms of your personality factors (attitude, familial expectations, etc.), personal history, education, and other factors, and I think you'd get the foundations of a "plan" in which you could have greater intellectual confidence than "I'll figure something out eventually...". 'Cause you're right; much as we love you, and value your opinions on various topics, "... the last thing the world needs is another know-it-all quipster." But you're not so right when you say "But you can't really change someone's nature." 'Cause people change their natures, as necessary, All. The. Time. Drunks get sober, Type A's relax, intellectuals learn to dance, etc. It's human adaptibility, and the urge for life, in action. Dig around in yourself, because I'm pretty sure you got your share, too.

Just a thought, from a guy who often appreciates your self-deprecating post-punk angst, and your honesty, even more.

Okay - first of all - I SO hear you, Run. It's crazy trying to figure your shit out. Especially when you're a cube monkey. I lived it, I've done it, I'm still doing it. BUT...

You can change that. Your nuts just have to be bigger than the other apes around you. Being "non-commercial" is a blessing, not a curse.

Phone in Dumbco daily, and come home and do something that gets your tits stiff. Like, sure, I'm just an administrative shlep, same as you, but I'm also doing theater and about to start my first-ever talk show on WSCA radio where I'm interviewing people IN theater. Get squirrely and "savagely focused (VOM!)" on what makes you a complete entity in this world.

And fuck Dumbco. The reasons that skyscrapers are so tall is that they need to house the Zombies somewhere. And it's good to know they're off the streets and avoidable from a distance.

Go kick ass!

You could change your life- if you wanted to.

Well, there you go. I don't really want to change. Doing great things and reaching for the fucking stars sounds great when you're daydreaming but in real life it requires a lot of possibly futile effort and disappointment and pressure, and I just don't do well with that, the last especially, especially when in it's in the service of something of no real consequence.

There you have it. I admit it.

All is have to say is:

HAHAHAHA PAULSC CALLED YOU A HIPSTER!

DJ would be a dream
It's not a dream, it's an occupation. People do it. A friend of mine recently got a DJing gig at Sirius(!). He loves it. He fucking gets fan mail. Fan mail! You know you could totally do that. And you should - you'd be really fucking good at it. Don't think of it as a jump from where you are now to like Howard Stern or whatever. Just take a step towards it, even if it's for fun. Host an open band/mic night. Whatever. LT's right - get something going after work. Your life will change for the better like you wouldn't believe.

Why not grant yourself what you want to do? Why let other people define who you are and how far you will go? Is it because you'll no longer get to be the downtrodden character in that Replacements song? Life's too fucking short my friend. Stop wasting your life and get on with it.

*me nods emphatically*

What everyone here said. There's some good, solid advice here from people who know you and who give a shit, jon. For your sake and out of consideration for these fine folks, stop for a second, get out of this 'don't wanna, can't make me' corner and just think about it.

"... it requires a lot of possibly futile effort and disappointment and pressure, and I just don't do well with that, the last especially, especially when in it's in the service of something of no real consequence."

Look, it's easy to pick apart someone's words in Internet posts, and start a well intentioned argument with them, that does no good. That's pointless, and I don't want to do that.

OTOH, when people post stuff like this, in front of friends, sometimes it's a whole 'nother thing. On that chance:

The possibility that effort might be futile, or subject you to disappointment, or pressure, is a lame, lame excuse for not trying to live a life that is interesting. Unless you subscribe to the theory of life extension advanced by a character in Catch-22 who tried to remain constantly bored because doing so made time drag, and so made it seem like he was subjectively living longer, your position reduces to nihilism.

Nilhisim hasn't been hip since Nietzsche. (And yeah, gaspode, I could keep grinding on this, but I won't. Hip is, even in blue collar instantiations.)

And while your possible achievements might be to the larger world, "of no real consequence," a lot of stuff you post here just cries out that they would be of real consequence for yourself.

Columbus sailed not for the Queen, but for his own curiousity. And it was only stubborness and curiousity kept him going, when the men about him mumbled mutiny, in their fear of sailing over the edge of the earth.

You've got a certian stubborness, and you've got some curiousity. If you give yourself permission to let your life be important to yourself, you could quit serving the life sentence you seem to feel you deserve, and maybe even need, for crimes you refuse to explain.

1. Alcohol is a depressant.
2. People who are depressed, or on the verge of depression, or who just tend towards dark, love alcohol. Which makes them more depressed.
3. Depression and anxiety hang out together, hand in hand, like peanut butter and jelly.
4. Depressed people see no options. People with anxiety see no way they can experience any options. As my brilliant therapist said, "The depressed person is in a room where there are no doors, or all the doors are blocked shut. The person with anxiety sees the doors but is afraid to open them."
5. Eventually, at some point in life, you have to open one or two of the fucking doors. Because otherwise you are admitting defeat and letting the depression and the anxiety control you, instead of you controlling it.
6. This isn't really easy, but it's not as hard as it looks before you start, not by a long shot.
7. Once you change your head, you can change anything else. You start changing your head by noticing what it does.

This has been a public service announcement brought to you by a dark post punk heavy drinking Irish girl with all the usual hipster pretensions who eventually got tired of feeling like a loser inside.

And you have every right to bitch. But you've been bitching for quite a while. Maybe now is the time to do something about it, jon.

Whoa. Hit the preview button and wow, lots of responses. If you feel like you're getting hit hard today, it's because we care, jon.

LT's right - get something going after work. Your life will change for the better like you wouldn't believe.

I know what you're saying, and the people who seem to find DumbCo less unbearable than me all have something else going; they're in bands or club DJ's or make movies, joe famous has his rapping, trishalynn her anime critic thing. But when I'm done here, I rarely have the energy to do more than drink a few beers and watch TV or fool around on the internet and if something gets dull, I get distracted real easy. These things have dogged me my entire life and I don't know how to get rid of them.

HAHAHAHA PAULSC CALLED YOU A HIPSTER!

Nonsense, being a hipster requires effort.

Is it because you'll no longer get to be the downtrodden character in that Replacements song?

You mean "Here Comes A Regular?" No, that's no fun. But it's comfortable.

Jon, I was just going to post something about depression but it looks like I was beaten to the punch.

You got brains, my brother. You were put on this earth for a purpose and not just to be a postmodern hipster curling pints and daydreaming.

School sucks when you are a kid but when you are an adult it's different. I went back to school last year for something I loved (worship leading with a hearty helping of theology in the mix) and altho I am not doing anything with it YET the fact that I could cheers me. Ditto the card that says I can teach spinning aerobics classes.

I understand the fear of change and of trying. But you are no worse off if you fail, Jon. Nothing to lose. Nada.

Maybe God is shaking your cage, old buddy. I have to admit I am shocked at the consensus in this thread.

And remember-no matter what, Fayetteville, NC would welcome you with open arms and sausage biscuits.

you could quit serving the life sentence you seem to feel you deserve, and maybe even need, for crimes you refuse to explain.

Well, a lot of it could have to do with my parents who derided the things I was interested in as silly wastes of time or worse. And a lot of it has to do with fears that a) they may be right, and b) not being good enough even if they aren't. I've seen people I admired's work get completely shredded and derided a lot and I don't know if I could deal with that.

As long as we are dogpiling you, I just remembered-your eating habits could sand some improvement. I've eaten bad and I've eaten better and there really is a marked diff in how ya feel. With my bipolar I have to be vigilant to have any energy and when I consume too much fat and sugar the only think I wanna do is sit in front of the computer.

(Sausage biscuits don't count.)

Go. Do. Be.

or... Go doobie.

You decide.

We've got somewhat similar work experiences (low level retail and clerical work) and I have to say I totally know where you're coming from. I've often felt stuck in a trap of my own making. I can't give you any advice that will be meaningful to you, because other than that I don't think we're very similar. But I will suggest that you may be missing something good right where you are just because you're not paying attention, because you've decided that souldeath is all that can come of current circumstances.

What a terrible sentence. There's a point in there somewhere but I'm tired. But I'm tired because something happened and I'm damn engaged in my job and the future looks good and my brain is working again.

Oh and Bunnyfire's right about food. You'd be amazed what a banana in the morning can do for ya.

DJ would be a dream

All you gotta do is let me know when, man. I'll plug you into the whole DJ circuit around here.

Yes, it really is an occupation that I..errr..occupy...I think.. hahaha.

There ya go, jon!

We expect a report back in a couple of weeks about your first gig.

I doubt there's a lot of places in New York that want to hear me play Molly Hatchet and the Dictators all night.

pode, you gotta understand, I occupy an entirely different space than you. I've fucked up nearly every single thing I've ever attempted. I used to have a work ethic as a point of pride, but lately I'm even losing that. Sure, I'm into music, but so are half a million other dorks in this city and most of them probably have more in-depth knowledge and better taste than I do, if the response I usually get when I talk about it is any indication. And writing? If I had the ability to construct anything beyond a wisecrack, I would. Once upon a time I might've but those muscles have atrophied.

You guys are scientists, judges, editors, financiers. Quite frankly, I'm amazed you all take me seriously as anything beyond an amusement. Honestly.

"... Quite frankly, I'm amazed you all take me seriously as anything beyond an amusement. ..."

We leave the reconcilation of that realization with the writer's worldview, to the writer himself.

I doubt there's a lot of places in New York that want to hear me play Molly Hatchet and the Dictators all night.

You'd be very, very suprised there, Johnny Mac.
We gotta talk, bro.
Ok maybe not all night, but trust me. There are so many places where the music is "anything goes" and people actuallt get paid spin it (free drinks included).

Just let know if your interested. We'll go on a field trip to see what's poppin' around town and hey, we'll get stooopafied driggity drunk while we do it.

Now that I really think about it, I REALLY DO LOVE THIS FRIGGIN'ROTTEN APPLE !

sorry for the typos, Bunnies. I'm currently working on entering the GIRLFRIENDS first season DVD into our database and it's kinda kickin' my ass.

jon, I probably can't say anything that hasn't already been said in thread about your potential and the barriers you put up, but when has that ever stopped me before? And now I'm going to hit you with a Mountain Goats platitude: Some things you do for money and some you do for love... If there's one thing I've learned since coming here to NYC it's there's a place for everyone and everything. As crowded as it is here, there's always room for one more musician, artist, slacker, lonely dancer (sorry more lyrics quoting). You can be that guy that affirms the other niche DJ who plays Molly Hatchet and the Dictators all night that she's not the only one out there who's a quirky DJ -- people eat that stuff up. I go to an experimental comics group meeting once a month for crap'ssake! None of us will be famous or righteous or holy (any day any day any day...what is up, lyric boy?) but we do it because it makes us happy and that makes any "dumbco" grind liveable. It's what we love to do. Honestly, you can see all the people here who support you, and I'm one of them, but I'm not going to play to any more pity sessions. If I were feeling more brazen to diagnose, I'd add that you need to go see someone about your depression and break down some of these walls you've erected out of your past. Maybe you can't see it, man, but you're way down in the hole (OMG!! one more, sorry).

I am extremely busy today and in a not so great mood, but just saw that and... what the hell:

You guys are scientists, judges, editors, financiers. Quite frankly, I'm amazed you all take me seriously as anything beyond an amusement.

That's horseshit. Some of the best (as in smartest/most knowledgeable, most capable) people I know in several different fields, did not do shit in their lives, because of the same reasons you are saying. You think it is a cliche? I'll give you fucking names.

I am a scientist among thousands others. There are many better than me. But I stay in it, you know why, because I love it. Because when I finish something and even just one person out of 5 billion tells me it's good, I am proud. It takes that little for me. The alternative would be to be mediocre in something I don't love. That would suck even more, right?

In any case, you are a big boy and no matter how much we all try to tell you the obvious: you gots talents, use them, it is useless unless you get going. In fact, I and probably more of us would try to support you in any way we can, ummm, cause you are gonna remember us when you are a celebrity, right? But I sorta out of breath rehashing stuff. And I will still like you if you keep sitting on your ass too. But that's no good for you, really.

(hugs)

Ok, I came home at lunch and proceeded to tear my closet apart looking for this list I found of 100 businesses you can start with little or NO money from the book Zen and the art of making a living. I printed it years ago when I was, well in a very similar situation to the one Jon is finding himself in lately, but I can not find it for the life of me. I tell you this because I think very highly of you and Pips, and it might be worth your wile to hit the library and take a look at that list. I will keep looking for it and will scan it to flickr or something when I find it. I bet there is something for EACH and EVERY one of us on that list!

Christ, jon, am I going to have to move back to NYC just to get a radio show with you?

In the meantime, you should seriously consider checking out getting a show on East Village Radio. They'd take both your wisecracks and your questionable taste in music.

pode, you gotta understand...

And you gotta understand that it's all you. The fact that you seem to be so intimidated by the fact that we are scientists and judges and whatthefuck is part of the problem. DO YOU SEE any of us looking down on you for what you do for a living? I only see support. You're projecting all that crap right back at yourself.

And you know what? Fuck it. It's not as if you don't already know this shit. But you seem proud of the fact that you are so self-aware of the fact that you're scared of pressure or failure or whatever the hell. But so are we all, to varying degrees. You're like the classic case of "well as long as I admit to it it's OK".

You comment about being the only person you know that isn't on anti-depressants or other similar mood drugs. Hello? You are! What do you call your drinking? That's your hobby. Turn off the fucking computer, don't buy beer for a week and go do something real. Sheesh.

And you know? I'm only sounding angry because you're my friend. And it's not the "waste of potential". If you sounded happy with wasting away your life I wouldn't care. But you don't. You sound desperately, desperately unhappy. Much as you try to wisecrack it away.

Hipster.

The other thing I gotta add, because I am quite a lot like you, is that failure, and success, are all in how you define them. In short, you have a choice - you can internalize all the crazy creepy media madness and your parents and your cousin who's never done anything wrong and so on about what makes a success or a failure OR, and it's a big OR, you can drop that crap out of your worldview and realize that actually, there are many ways to live, and you have a right and in fact a duty to live in the way that suits you best. That sounds too easy, too trite and too facile, but in actual fact it works surprisingly well. Because once you have made that leap into the worldspace where "success" and "failure" are absolutely pointless meaningless terms that do not affect you, you can honestly look at how you're living: how you feel, whether you wake up feeling energized or disheartened, what's really going on in your own soul and brain - and then, if necessary, you can do something about it.

Sure, it's never going to be 100% and there are always things that will get you down and then kick you hard while you're lying on the rug, but if you are living what is for you a right life, you'll have the ability to kick back.

And you'd be surprised at how easy it is to get into that space, even though you will have to drag yourself kicking and screaming, still sometimes it is just as simple as good food and exercise and enough sleep and maybe fish oil or prozac or something to boot your ass over the hump. Dude, I am painting again for the first time in 4 fucking years and that feels incredible. No, I'm never going to be a great painter, and I'm never going to be famous and I'm never going to have a retrospective at the Met and I'm probably never going to write a great American novel or anything much besides comments here and a blog entry but WHO THE FUCK CARES? Because I don't - and I feel like my life is working for me, mostly, finally, at last. It took anti depressants, therapy, vitamins, exercise, less drinking, a year of unemployment and a new job (which is not a job that anyone in the "real" world would recognize as even slightly something that "successful" people do) to get me to this space and it has all been worth it.

Here ends lecture. Also, whatever you may think of yourself, we all think you're great and we're not stupid, here.

Ok, so I found the list of 217 businesses, now what do I do with this PDF file?

DO YOU SEE any of us looking down on you for what you do for a living?

No, I don't and I'm grateful for that. But it's difficult not to occasionally be intimidated by being surrounded by accomplished people and be a bit baffled that they'd want to hang out with someone so much less accomplished.

Look, tommorrow I'll probably be fine with drinking my beer, surfing my net and listening to my records, but today it was getting to me, probably cause of the stupid meeting. Probably since my reciever broke and I can't listen to music on my PC (complicated, not worth it). I printed out the DJ application item linked to, FWIW, even though I probably won't do anything with it.

I doubt there's a lot of places in New York that want to hear me play Molly Hatchet and the Dictators all night.
Dude, you live in New York fucking City, you act like you're in the middle of nowhere. And I can think of ten bars off the top of my head that would be into your Dictators/Molly Hatchet night. I'm not lying. Email me if you want a list. Getting a DJ gig is sooo easy, half the time you can just ask them and they'll be into it. Or they'll call you when they have an opening. If they ask if you've ever done it, just say you've done a bunch of parties. Hell, you've been doing it your whole life anyway. You can learn to use the equipment in about 5 minutes. And if you're really serious, by the book "How to DJ Well". Or, better yet, you can just borrow mine. It seems silly reading a book on DJing, but it really did help me.

So when you're ready to fucking rock instead of being rocked, you just let me know, Hipster Snowflake.

Derail:

DO YOU SEE any of us looking down on you for what you do for a living?

No, I don't and I'm grateful for that. But it's difficult not to occasionally be intimidated by being surrounded by accomplished people and be a bit baffled that they'd want to hang out with someone so much less accomplished.

I can empathize with that; I often feel intimidated as well. But I know people here aren't looking down at me, that it's my own sense of self-worth, or lack thereof. *sigh*

Anyway, I know there are lawyers aplenty here, but who's the judge?

/derail

I'm the judge! Wooooooooooooooo.

It's like I can set a watch or a calendar by it: jonmc makes a post, it gets dogpiled upon because everyone is calling him on some b.s., and then he comes to my desk to whine and perhaps get a little sympathy.

Well not this time, buster.

During "the interlude" I told you that you could do amazing things. This was back in April, right? And of course your plan of sitting on your ass and waiting for DumbCo to lay you off has gone so well... </sarcasm>

One of the times we hung out over the summer, Pips and I were talking about how I thought you had a lack of ambition and she disagreed with me. What I'm coming to realize is that you have dreams, but they're all shattered by your own self-deprecation and self-defeat.

Of the three of us DumbCo employees, I'd say only JF has the right to say that he's actually doing something useful with his life. I've decided to regroup this year because I'm still carrying a lot of emotional and tangible luggage from the relationship I had with my first boyfriend and my California years. Once I sell or get rid of all of that stuff and get out of debt, I'll be able to start working on my dreams again. I'm in hibernation, but that's okay with me because I have a cunning plan.

In other words, I'm not doing anything with my life right now, but at least I have a plan to go along with my dreams. You're content to spin fairy tales and piss and moan about "What could be" rather than taking those dreams and working on how to make them real.

You frustrate me so much, jonmc: I printed out the DJ application item linked to, FWIW, even though I probably won't do anything with it.

WHY THE FUCK NOT??? Who gives a fuck about what your parents said when you were younger? Every day you have a chance to make your life better in this plane of existence. You have extra days where other people (like my friend Kelly whom I loved, and EJ's George, and so many other people) do not.

I think that's the reason why I'm so fucking angry at you for daring to want some sympathy from me. Unless you were to contract cirrhosis of the liver or lung cancer (both of which, you have to admit, are possibilities) or die in some freak, unpredictable accident, you've got years of time ahead of you. The fact that you're pissing them away is okay with me. The fact that you're whining about it and refusing to do something about it is not.

This thread rocks. It's quite an intervention.

Jon, everybody's right.

If I were in your position (and I was, not so terribly long ago), I'd go see a psychologist (and I did, now I'm happy, think of it all what you will).

You've got some hard work to do and you're willing to do some of it (searching for reasons, recognizing the things that are holding you back), but we are not the ones to do it with. We're friends and supporters, but in most cases, not mental health practitioners. Go see someone who sees people like you all the time and knows how to help you get out of this defeatist state.

Also, my own experience accords with what others have said about fatigue and personal habits. When I eat well, sleep well, and don't overuse alcohol, I have a great level of energy. There's no surer way to feel 20 years older than you are than loading your body down with bad food and drinking too much. And smoking alone tires you out, especially as you get older, because your body has to work far harder to keep oxygen coming in and getting where it needs to go. Since I quit smoking I feel, without exaggeration, much much younger and more energetic than I did 10 years ago. Odd but true. There's no reason someone your age should come home from work every night and feel unable to muster the energy to do anything but drink and surf the net. You're in a vicious cycle of constantly fatiguing yourself, then using the fatigue as an excuse to repeat the fatiguing behaviors.

The only person with the power to change your life is you; and you have everything you need in order to do it. The excuses themselves are holding you back from a more satisfying life. Stop using them and take some action.

Any action.

(TPS, you are cracking me up today.)

(I am just ridunkulous today. Cary on.)

God, this whole fricking thread is about me, as well.

Jon, for the love of criminy, let's start a music magazine*. Or be a band promoter. Don't you know like thousands of bars that need to book bands? Watch High Fidelity again, my brother. We're Rob. Go out there. Do it. Fail. Fail again. Remember, you can always scrape by as a cabbie, a snobby record store clerk; whatever. We all have wings. Some of us don't know why.

I'm not gonna tell you how to live. You got plenty of that upthread. I'll just tell you that I'm out there, like you, wondering. Come find me. We'll make it happen.

*totally serious. let's do this.

Jonmc, I am a middleaged housewife who goes to the gym and plays the piano. I never finished college (except for that certificate program.) All the jobs I have ever had have been soulnumbing deadend ones. Plus I'm a conservative Christian.

If I don't feel intimidated here, why should you? We like you for YOU. All the stupid sociological barriers break down when it's mostly just words on a screen-and stay broken down when you meet each other.

There are concrete reasons for you feeling like poo. You are depressed, and that is a PHYSICAL problem made worse by poor food, too much alcohol (which drains you of vitamins as well as being a depressant) plus you are getting to the age where you realize this is your life and not a prologue.

Obviously I would offer a spiritual solution first but you already heard that from me -meanwhile you have to realize that no one else's opinion matters at all. Not your parents', not your extended family's, not your friends, not your coworkers, not your bosses, and not some random doofus on the internet.

My parents rarely took interest in what I did, and I always felt like a total alien in my family. They did not understand the things I liked nor why I liked them. They have understood very few of my life choices. BUT they respect me now because I, ME, MYSELF, respect my choices, my beliefs and my activities.

Yes, their opinions did wound you and that is real. But you have the right and the obligation to quit living down to their incompetent parenting-because to not give your kids wings is incompetent in my book. They did not have faith in you-now it is time for you to let go of the need for it.

I won't say you need faith in yourself. I know where your faith needs to be, and when you are ready you will email me, or call me (yes, at that point you get my cell phone number.)

Till then I am sending you hugs and virtual sausage biscuits.

And one more thing:

I have faith in you.

Oh, and no psychologist will force you to take pills, jon. I held off on talk therapy for ages because of that. You might have to shop around for a good shrink, but once you find them, they're like gold.

To everyone else: Thank you. Thank you a million times. Because even if jon doesn't take it to heart, I do, and I will. I may not be there now; I may not ever get there, but your words keep me striving and remembering that "failure" is another word for "attempt."

(Don't worry, I won't out-jonmc jonmc and make this thread about me. Uh, anymore than I already did.)

And one more thing:

I have faith in you.

Your faith is misplaced. Look, all I'm doing is admitting that deep down, I'm basically a lazy slob. Sure, sometimes I'll daydream about shit. But after a few quarts of beer, I'm back to the sensible 'fuck it, let's go bowling,' position. I just wish my stereo was working.

Where you err is in thinking that that is the sensible position, jon.

But like bunnyfire says, when you want to be helped, people will be there. Till then, I'm hanging with eide.

But after a few quarts of beer

Stop drinking. I'm not saying forever, but go clean for a while. See if your life is bearable. I bet you'll be DJing seven nights a week to keep yourself from clawing down your cubicle walls. Alcohol is a poison; it's the evillest of the recreational drugs because it kills your will. Which is just what the system wants you to do, to keep you down, to keep you from your dreams.

I'd rather work two jobs that pay shit but are in fields that I love than have all the doctor/lawyer/big money positions in the world. Do. Or do not. There is no try.

M.C. Music Consultants, your one stop shop for rock. I can see it now; you can be a rock DJ, meet some bands, and start booking them with your buddy Handsome Dick and in other places. No one will make a lot of money, not at first, but it'll be hella fun and everyone will know your name....

jonmc said: Sure, sometimes I'll daydream about shit. But after a few quarts of beer, I'm back to the sensible 'fuck it, let's go bowling,' position.

I think I hate Defeatist!jonmc more than I dislike Rock Snob-Blue Collar!jonmc. At least the latter is passionnate about what he likes and will defend it to the death. Defeatist!jonmc rolls over like a wounded puppy once he realizes that his friends are calling him on his B.S. I'm definitely not going to be buying drinks for that guy.

Eideteker: said: I'd rather work two jobs that pay shit but are in fields that I love than have all the doctor/lawyer/big money positions in the world. Do. Or do not. There is no try.

You go, boy.

*switches alligiances*

*waves her pom-pomps for Eideteker*

Didn't you tell me once in my LJ you knew how to start businesses and was an accountant or some crazy shit like that? And that I could come to you for advice on that? I like that guy.

If you're serious about that music magazine, you're going to need a managing editor. I'm your girl. I know how to crack whips and keep articles in order and I know a little bit about the print process and even have some connections to some local and non-local printers who'd be able to get us decent prices.

jesus. editors? whip cracking? that's exhausting just to listen to.

*fucks it, goes bowling*

jon? Buddy? You're making a mistake. Really. You've got 2/3 of a good team together, and you're the other 1/3 and then you can get into shows for free and talk to cool people and have a beer with them. You know that'd rock, and would be totally braggable. Fuck, you could even invite 'em for bowling and brews!

I have cramps, a lingering migraine, and a fucking cold. I may be a bit grumpy here. As someone who only managed to find a job she half-way likes at the tender age of 36 (and that only because I happened to catch a late-night Teaching Fellows commercial late one night and was nearly out of cash advances during my post-graduate-year-on-the-couch), sometimes you just gotta let someone figure things out on their own time table, if at all. I know you're all well-meaning and all, and will probably accuse me of being "codependent" (god, I hated shelving those fucking books in the ever-growing self-help section back in the day), but no "intervention" is needed here. Sometimes a person just needs to vent and maybe get a little tender-lovin' (which is, of course, one of my primary purposes in life, and I am more than happy to fulfill said role, but a few bunny reenforcements never hurt). It's not jon's fault DumbCo gets dumber by the millisecond. In fact, I think he's coping with the situation with humor and grace, most days, these posts being one of the major tools in the box (Screwdriver, anybody?). Perhaps if we could lean towards support more than supposed solutions; and if the well be dry for some, just don't put anything in the bucket. Besides, I plan to be rich, so I'll just keep him around for eye candy. (Bear in mind, we love you all.)

*erects force field around husband*

so I'll just keep him around for eye candy.

*primps hair, does makeup, hikes speedo*

pips, we've provided plenty of support for jon over the last year and some.

Serioulsy folks, my ambitions are generally satisfied with people appreciating my quips and free songs. All I want to go with it is a dayjob that I can fucking stand with a minnimum of agida so I can help pay the bills. The current one isn't cutting it, so I bitched about it. I did not expect, nor did I particularly want, anybody trying to remake my life. Yes, I am an unambitious, lazy drunken slob. and guess what? I like it.
It's what I do during the day that bugs me is all.

I think everyone's received their share, 'pode.

I could use some support.

*supports flo*

there, there

Thanks! jonmc abides.

I could use some support!

::puts on steel bra::

Ahhhh, that's better.

You'd never make it through security at my school with that, pink... though the guards would enjoy waving their magic wands around... : )

(you wouldn't believe where the girls hide their cell phones...)

Yes, I am an unambitious, lazy drunken slob. and guess what? I like it. It's what I do during the day that bugs me is all.

~ERROR~

Sentences do not compute.

Subject is unsatisfied with current day job.

Recipients of message urge subject to change circumstances so that subject is satisfied with day job.

Subject then expresses that he will not change anything because he is satisfied with current situation.

~HOWEVER~

Subject is unsatisfied with current day job.

Recipients of message urge subject to change circumstances so that subject is satisfied with day job.

Subject then expresses that he will not change anything because he is satisfied with current situation.

~HOWEVER~

Subject is unsatisfied with current day job.

Recipients of message urge subject to change circumstances so that subject is satisfied with day job.

Subject then expresses that he will not change anything because he is satisfied with current situation.

~HOWEVER~

Subject is unsatisfied with current day job.

Recipients of message urge subject to change circumstances so that subject is satisfied with day job.

Subject then expresses that he will not change anything because he is satisfied with current situation.

~HOWEVER~

Subject is unsatisfied with current day job.

Recipients of message urge subject to change circumstances so that subject is satisfied with day job.

Subject then expresses t---sl;kdfnm ;lskdjf ;alsklmnsldkjf sladkjfo[io0=0=9n


Daisy.... daisy.... give me your answ

Daisies are pretty. I like daisies.

*dances through field of daisies with TL*

All I have to say, jonmc, is that I hear you. My own company is going through some tough times that may get tougher. And I work in a supermarket. (Though I actually like it. I like my customers and helping people and bitching about them too). There is a question whether or not my company, after 115 years, will even be in business in five years. And I'd rather see it to the end, and get training while on unemployment (which I've never been on) for something else. So gripe about your day job (while the rest of your life is fine with you), and wait to see where it leads. Who knows? Maybe you'll be a DJ, maybe you'll change to another cubicle job, maybe even one that you enjoy. It's your life, jonmc.

(you wouldn't believe where the girls hide their cell phones...)

::tries to imagine::
::gets grossed out::

Hrm. Methinks I recall MizSuperhero mentioning something about working from home. That, in my esteemed opinion, would leave out working as a judge.

We were talking about judging other people, right? Because I am the JUDGE, y'all.

Sure, sometimes I'll daydream about shit. But after a few quarts of beer, I'm back to the sensible 'fuck it, let's go bowling,' position. I just wish my stereo was working.

I know that Pips is happy and content with you being decorative, and that most of the time you are truly content being decorative, but the older you get those percentages have a way of swapping around. So after the beer and the bowling, set a small goal of something you want to do-something a little out of the ordinary for you.

As for dumbco, I don't mind your venting, because I do remember that if you get laid off you will have some time AND money to figure some things out. But meanwhile while you wait on them to finally pony up, make some plans and any prep for said plans so when the happy day arrives, you are ready for it.

And Pips, do forgive us, but we love your rascally scamp, booze, bowling and all. So, into mother hen mode we went.

i wrote something a lot earlier and decided not to post it and left the computer, but i wish i saved it just to save myself some time and trouble.
All kinds of people have had some good points to make and things to say and Trisha's first post just nails it.

You made it very clear to me way early on that you don't want help.
What you do want to do is piss and moan, even about things that have nothing to do with you or of which you know not what you're saying.
Specklet's comment in the Meatbomb thread is almost exactly the fable i once wrote for you all the way in the beginning of Metachat when you asked why people react to you the way they do. You said you didn't get it then and i wonder if it still eludes you, why and how.

All these people bothered to write out these words for you, good advice, serious concern, and, more than that, these earnest wishes: not for you to suddenly pick up and change your life for them, but for you to stop being such a miserable bastard for you.
Because what comes out in your comments:
Someone is trying to lose weight and you tell them to give up, it's not worth it.
Someone's trying to vent their frustration and you're competing on who's had it worse.
Someone is trying to talk about something and you decide you're just going to talk about something else.

That's what bugs me and that's what bothers me and that's a small part of what's kept me low and far from mecha.
People shout and people vent, but always about the same thing, over and over and over?

Pips, please don't be offended, but i'm not sure if he has no other way of expressing himself or if he finds his finite bitching to be an end to itself. Before whatever happened with you guys i made it clear to him i had problems with how it seemed he regarded you with the way he expressed himself so i'm kind of hoping it's in some part a communication problem.

This isn't about me having a problem with jon so much as it's a problem on the site, seeped into it so much as to be a part of it, so much so that all these people have stood out to say something about it in the kindest and most helpful ways, no matter how they are taken.
It's so much a part of the site that if he didn't do the "usual" someone would ask and enable him to.

Those business opportunities and energy, i'll take 'em, and if i can't use them i'll find someone who can, but i'm not going to see this much effort and hope wasted on someone who wants to insist he's not unsatisfied but wants to keep bitching about it because it's so much fun.

This thread is what's so full of potential and in its own way amazing, and if nothing comes from it for anyone, that's what should be pitiable.

Jon, i think you have the makings of a life already. Maybe not.
Maybe some of us want more out of life than we've got.
Maybe you could stop pissing around and pissing on about how your life sucks and being pissed drunk--

and nothing i say means anything and i don't expect it to.
i'm just saying it because i can and then i don't have to say it again.

and i'm not gonna read this because then i'll just delete it again. it makes much more sense to make a sandwich.

*applauds*

eth, I'm glad you didn't delete that comment.

Because it rocked.

Just what are y'all lookin' for here? To "help" someone, or to feel somehow "vindicated" yourselves? Many a hurt's been committed in the guise of "helping." Perhaps you don't even realize. It's hard to see the back of your own head sometimes. He doesn't need me to fight his battles for him, but I'm not one to "keep quiet" either.

And Pips, do forgive us, but we love your rascally scamp, booze, bowling and all. So, into mother hen mode we went.

I appreciate that, bunnyfire; I just don't like to see it turn into a "peckin' party," if you know what I mean, unintentional as it may be.

(and if y'all get that reference, I'll give you an "A")

Because what comes out in your comments:
Someone is trying to lose weight and you tell them to give up, it's not worth it.
Someone's trying to vent their frustration and you're competing on who's had it worse.
Someone is trying to talk about something and you decide you're just going to talk about something else.

Yes... this troubled me in the past, but it wasn't until I related to my boyfriend a "funny" story about how the week after I quit smoking jonmc would come by my desk to ask if I'd still quit and why wouldn't I just hang out with him while he smoked (because that would have defeated the purpose of me having quit smoking) because he was lonely that I realized that it wasn't so funny. My boyfriend got upset that jonmc was somewhat actively trying to get me to start smoking again when I'd made a vow that I wouldn't. And when he said that, a lot of those same behaviors mentioned above flitted through my head.

But hey, if you want some words of support, here they are:

Yeah, DumbCo sucks. DumbCo makes me furious because as much as you didn't like the UT, for the first time since I started working there, I actively liked my job and where the company was going and whatnot. I had hope that the company would turn itself around.

And then the months of slogging through the red tape and the promises that didn't get fulfilled, and then a QA position in IT with a higher salary was dangled in front of me and then yanked away because they changed the parameters of the job. And then I got to work on a project I loved that has since been shoved back onto a back burner.

And then the UT went away, and this new guy took away our free telecommuting days. And another position that I'm perfect for, but would have required our department to spend more money on also got shit-canned by the new guy.

I am actively pissed off that I've wasted so much time in this job that I only took at first so that I wouldn't have to leave NYC, because my unemployment money wasn't enough. I want to move ahead but every time I try to, I get shut down.

Here's where things diverge, though. I'm still trying. I've still got that plan that I'm working on. That's how I make it through these days of alternately hating my job and being mad at the company for not treating us workers the right way.

How do I deal with the work depression? I'm a fighter. That's how I do it.

And it's evident that you're not, so that's that.

Pips: I'm not sure who said it first, but it's been said over and over again. We're upset and want to help because we care. We don't like seeing anyone hurt and troubled and the best way to get rid of those troubles is to do something about the situation so that either those troubles are lessened or to get rid of the troubles completely.

It's one thing to listen to someone complain and offer sympathy. But when the person complains about the same thing over and over again, it can get a little wearying. That's when the impulse to "help" jumps in, because not only can one be tired of hearing the same sad notes in the same sad song, you start to wonder that if this person is so upset by this situation, why doesn't he or she do something about it?

I'll add on a personal note that perhaps I can personally claim a bit of vindication because in the past whenever we had a disastrous meeting and we would storm downstairs to vent and smoke, jonmc would listen to me rage and get mad and then he'd say something condescending about how naive I was about the world and my place in it for wanting to change things. He never listened to me or supported me the way you say he wants in this thread.

I'm also upset because of Kelly, my supremely talented friend who died of colon cancer a year and some change ago. She died and the world was deprived of one if its literary bright spots. When she died, she was just about to get serious about her original fiction and had moved to Spokane with her husband to start a family. She can't do any of those things now.

After she died, I made a vow that I would do good or great things with my life in her name. In that year and change, I've done none of that, so I feel a little mad that I had an extra year to do something with my life and I didn't.

So to hear someone else who is just a little older than she would have been, who also has a talent, who is frustrated with where he is in this world actively refuse offers of help pissed me off. Plus, to hear this guy who says that he likes people being honest with him back away from the honesty in this thread is a little disgusting.

For the last time: I don't want to change my life. At least not in the way you guys think. I just think my day job sucks. Hell, I mainly made this post because of the poster with the stupid 'savage focus,' thing. We all thought it was funny. And sitting in the stupid meeting was bumming me out. I wasn't asking for back alley psychoanalysis and quite frankly, none of you are inside my head. You are not me, many of you are actually projecting your own desires onto me, actually.

Yeah, ethylene, I have the makings of a life. I love my girlfriend, I love my city, I love my friends, I love listening to my music and screwing around on my computer. The only I really want to be different is that I'd like a dayjob I can stand. That's it.

I love my wife, I mean. I still forget sometimes.

*kisses wedding band*

and I could name plenty of people here who prattle on about the same old things repeatedly (but I won't) and I don't give them shit about it, because a)I figure their issues genuinely bug them and b)they're just venting to get something out of their system.

I don't think you understand jon - it's not about what you want anymore, it's about what I want for you. My dream of transforming a human, clockwork orangian-style, into a less miserable, somewhat functional member of society would be complete. If you'd only behave. I would cart you around the country showing off your transformation and mentioning what an amazing new treatment Thee Hellbient Method™ is.

The airbrush job for the van is almost ready. Why are you deliberately trying to squash my dreams?!

Jon, you're backpeddling. You showed what was really going on, you got shat on, you closed back up like a clam and now you're backpeddling.

i don't blame you, but in the long run it isn't much of a strategy.

Dare to dream a little. Like I do with my songwriting. You know, there are tax deductions available for following one's dreams if there's even a little money in it.

Hey-I just had a thought-you could be a male Dooce. Set up a weblog, blog about Dumbco, either they don't find out and you sell ads because the stories will be a scream (remember the creepy boss on the elevator?)or else they dump you and you get to find a better job, write about THAT and sell ads. If dooce can do it, you sure as heck can.

Whaddya think?