Great article.

BTW -- I watched the last night's episode of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy." It profiled 'Miles' a 24 year-old trans-gendered male who "grew up in Vermont as part of an extended born again Christian family, and began her transformation when she came out to her family and friends as a lesbian at the age of 15."

I found it to be a touching episode, particularly in the way in which his family has embraced him and loved him, as they all have come to terms with his transformation.

The kid may very well be transgendered, but isn't 5 alittle early to be sure of anything? There's plenty of men I know with so-called feminine traits and women with so called masculine ones, but they're quite happy with their biology. This kid dosen't seem to be, but like I said, he's really young and still developing.

*the last night's* ;)

Thanks for the article mudpuppie. Trans awareness is very near and dear to me, and while I have a few qualms with the article, it's good to see some representation and discussion going on in the media.

ericb: If Miles is a trans guy, why does that quote use female pronouns?

(also, please don't take my comment as any kind of anti-trans sentiment. I'm very pro-trans, I'm just skittish about deciding anything with somebody so young)

jon, i think one of the points of the article is that there really is no deciding anything when a kid is that young, but that the parents are doing their best to be supportive. It's not like they're lopping off body parts -- just allowing the kid to wear clothes that he's comfortable in.

ericb: If Miles is a trans guy, why does that quote use female pronouns?

Because it references his past. The full quote from the BRAVO website is:

Miles is a 24 year-old trans-gendered male who just moved from California to Crown Heights, Brooklyn. Born Amelia Goff, Miles didnt feel like he was a “woman” the way he was supposed to feel like a “woman.” She grew up in Vermont as part of an extended born again Christian family, and began her transformation when she came out to her family and friends as a lesbian at the age of 15. It wasn't until her sophomore year at Mount Holyoke College (an all girls school!) that she started calling herself Miles. Taking testosterone for the last two years, Miles is finally able to “pass” as a male due to the physical effects of the shots. His body has gone through many changes, and now that his second “puberty” is coming to an end, he is finally ready to embrace his new life in NYC as a man.

But he needs help! Not only does he need to learn the basic skills of being a “male,” but he also needs some serious lessons in style and panache! With careful guidance from the Fab Five, Miles will become the most stylish “trans-man” this city has ever seen! The Fab Five will help Miles host a gathering of family and friends to celebrate his coming of age as a man. Many of the guests have not seen Miles since he has been on the hormone therapy, and it is important for him to reintroduce himself to everyone as Miles and show off his new look for his new life in New York City. If done right, this party is an important step for everyone in his life, past and present, to accept him and come to terms with his choice to “perform” his gender as a man.

and I'm cool with that, too. they just seemed to have already diagnosed him is all, which IMO is premature. I had a friend in second grade named Pete, who when I slept over his house, went into his sister's room and put on her tights and hairspray and pranced around*. His mom rapped on the ceiling and said "Are you wearing your sister's clothes again?" I ran into him years later, and he was still a guy. Maybe he dresses up at home, I don't know. But my point is that people change a lot from age 5 to adulthood.

But, you're right, I do agree that his parents' behavior is exemplary.

*he also used to like chasing me around the back yard with a big stick until I cried (he was bigger than me). People are weird.

being a cross-dresser is often a totally different thing from being gay or transgendered, fwiw.

Yeah, but I doubt that your buddy Pete walked around talking about changing his penis into a vagina. Mighty big difference there.

Or cutting it off and hammering it.

Great article, mp.

Agreed, cmonkey & occhi. Remember, this is me you're talking to, not some clueless oaf. I'm no stranger to gender/sexuality frontiers myself, I just remember that at 5 I was pretty much in the dark about everything, so that makes me kind of...ambivalent. But, I'll admit I have much to learn.

In happier news, I just tried banana flavored beer for the first time. It's good.

Ah, it's the iconic jonmc progression!

Statement asserting "this is the way it is" -->
Follow-up assuring that he mean nothing by bad it and that he is, in fact, pretty cool about these things -->
Personal anecdote to prove original point -->
"Look, this is me you're talking to!" statement -->
Food reference

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

*vomits*

BANANA? Why would you do that to a nice innocent brew? Is that how your parents raised you? Well???

pup, all I was expressing was ambivalence about deciding that somebody is anything for sure at that age, not making a grand pronouncement. I honestly didn't think it was that controversial an opinion.

(it's a banana lambic from Belgium, dan. it's quite tasty)

Yeah, but since the article was all about how complicated it is to decide anything about kids at that age, with plenty of opinions on both sides expressed, I was starting to get "Why the hell doesn't anyone actually read the damned article" MeFi flashbacks.

MeFi flashbacks? Not fun.

Really, I don't think what you're saying is controversial or wrong. It just seems like it was addressed pretty thoroughly in the article.

Fair enough, occhi. But I did read the article and that (along with admiration at the open-mindedness of his parents) was the impression I was left with. Like I said, I'm not trying to start shit, just offer my impressions.

I inferred from As Nature Made Him that David Reimer always knew he was male even when he was forced to live as a girl. If this kid knows she wasn't born as the right gender--and is not being coached to say this--then she should be allowed to live as a girl. This is also one of the current story lines in Alison Bechdel's strip (not PC for me to give the title since I'm a het. ;-))

I think hefewissen tastes like bananas, which is why I don't like it--I only like the fresh fruit.

I really have to admire that family for being so supportive of their daughter.

On a side note: is there a particular pronoun for transgenders? Is polite to ask which pronoun they would prefer? I haven't had much any exposure to trannies IRL. Gay and lesbians yes, trannies not so much. I wouldn't want to offend someone because of my ignorance.

You probably won't offend by using the wrong word. I'm sure some people would get upset, but non of the trans or genderqueer people I've known have. Just wait for social cues like a mutual friend using their preferred gender pronoun if you can't tell what they identify as, and if you say the wrong thing, well, you won't be the first, nor will you come across as a raging jerk if you use the right one from then on.

LF: It's always best to ask if you're unsure. Your trans friends will thank you for it because it shows you're trying to understand them and are supportive of their change.

This comes from knowing one M to F and two F to Ms. All three are on hormone therapy right now.

It's great to see a family being that supportive of their kid - as far as physical changes go, there's always been kind of a fine line between being too young to really make such a big decision and being old enough that puberty's had permanent effects on the body. I don't know a single transperson who doesn't wish they'd started hormone therapy before or during puberty. And those few who do tend to turn out amazingly well, appearance-wise - I'm friends with lots of TS folks who look completely indistinguishable from people born into their gender, but I know how much work and time it's taken for them to get there, whereas those who get treatment really early have a comparatively easy ride. On the other hand, I can't honestly advocate making hormone therapy available to people young enough that they haven't had a chance to figure out all the social, personal and sexual ramifications. I know very well there are a million non-medical options open to someone who's not comfortable in a traditional gender role, after all. So, y'know, it's a dilemma. Um.

LunaticFringe: you're after a pronoun for genderqueer/non-traditional-gendered people, yeah? With transsexual folks it's best to just call them by whichever pronoun they identify with (and I don't think anybody reasonable could be offended by your asking, if you're not sure). There are a whole bunch of competing non-gendered pronouns out there, which some love and some loathe - I'm sort of variably-gendered myself, and I suppose I'd go with sie/hir if I was pressed, but I'd never be offended by someone calling me he or she, either. Some people go with he when I look more like a boy and she when I look more like a girl, and my partner just sort of alternates randomly. Which I like a lot, but that's more to do with the person I associate it with.

One of the best arguments for doing earlier rather than later transitions: if the kid starts the hormone therapy before the onset of puberty, her eventual body morphology will be much more female than male and she'll probably be more comfortable in her body than if she is forced to wait until 16 or 18 or whatever.

The article brings a sticky issue though, sort of reminiscent of the debates in the deaf community. If parents discover they have a gay kid, is the "fix" gender reassignment? How's that for ooky?

Thanks for the article, mudpuppie. And many, many kudos to the parents.

when a two year old tells you, "I want the fairy princess to come and make my penis into a vagina", YOU DONT NEED TO ASK YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT IT! NOT ONLY IS THIS NORMAL, BUT TWO YEAR OLDS SAY ALL KINDS OF REALLY STRANGE THINGS!

ack. sorry to be redundant(?), but that is way, way, too young... to be diagnosing, and reinforcing(!) gender norms and gender roles that are subjective and socially-constructed to begin with. at that age, children have little or no concept of "self", even. a child's view of sexual identity is even hazier. those parts of the brain havent even formed yet. role playing, experimenting, playing dress up, sexual self-discovery, etc are entirely typical behaviors (learning mechanisms!) for that age. and it is common for boys, after learning that their mother or sisters do not have penises like they do, to become anxious about losing theirs, or guilty because they didn't lose theirs, jealous for not being able to have babies or just curious, and etc. this kid may even be gay, and trying to reconcile his gayness w/ (a toddler's understanding of) observed gender roles. hence, most credible psychologists would strongly hesitate against diagnosing GID for even pre-pubescent children... let alone toddlers. or adhd, pediatric bipolar disorder, etc. surely there are extreme cases. but the unfortunate risks of diagnosing and reinforcing these behaviors means that if the child, perchance, didn't have a gender identity disorder, he/she ALMOST CERTAINLY WILL, NOW.

it's great that the parents want to be so supportive, but it seems like they've really jumped the gun here... and thus unintentionally trapped the kid in the middle of his parent's anxious/very supportive feedback loop.