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23 July 2012

How to say Los Angeles. I was watching Double Indemnity (1944) yesterday and noticed a couple of different pronunciations of "Los Angeles" (hard "g" versus soft "g"), and wondered when it became standardized. Interesting story.
Also wrt New Orleans: I was talking to my US ex-father in law and mentioned 'New Orleens'. In his response he pronounced it 'New Orle-ans'. Which obviously is closer to the french pronunciation of Orlé-ans.
It felt like a slight US middle class snobbery to me. (no criticism of middle class snobberies btw; I'm big on European middle class snobberies. It's just that foreign snobberies can feel a bit arbitrary and lacking in dismissive oomph)
So; does that sound familiar?

If I ever visit NYC again I'll make a point of enquiring about Staaten Eiland. And subtly correcting the pronunciation of my interlocutor. I'm sure that will be a great conversation opener.
posted by jouke 23 July | 12:56
Many southerners tend to say something closer to New OR-lins or even NOR-lins for New Orleans.
posted by JanetLand 23 July | 12:59
But is that an expression of snobbery!?! That's what I'd like to know...

Once you'll have to teach me how to talk like a southerner. My Dutch friends will be very impressed.
posted by jouke 23 July | 13:08
I say it "Los Angerles."
posted by Eideteker 23 July | 13:54
I take my cues from Frank Black.
posted by Hugh Janus 23 July | 14:10
NeoouOR-lieans (southern moo-cow speak) long/slow on thems vowels y'all.

LaausAN-golis

But ain' from roun' thems parts so don' know how folks roun' thar says it.

posted by mightshould 23 July | 14:57
I like the phrase southern moo-cow speak.
posted by jouke 23 July | 15:42
Noir-lins.
posted by fleacircus 23 July | 18:09
"New OR-lee-uns" was proper when I was growing up the midwest. "New Or-LEENS" was pretentious. Living in the South, "Noo OR-lins" became the norm; "NAW-lins" was only if you were actually from there; and anything else was weird.

So, to my ears, "New Or-LEENS" is the most affected pronunciation, as it does not respect either the French origins or the Creole present of the city. Given my situation, it sounds like a Midwesterner trying to sound posh.

With Spanish-language place names like "Los Angeles," I remember reading a NY Times article about Austin, I think, or maybe Texas in general, talking about how the younger the (white) population, the more likely they were to pronounce those place names closer to the Spanish originals. I know that I *always* cringed when I lived in Georgia and heard Atlanta's Ponce de Leon Avenue pronounced "POHNSS da LEEEE-on."
posted by occhiblu 23 July | 18:19
Actually, I guess it's more, "PAHHNSS duh LEEE-ahhn."
posted by occhiblu 23 July | 18:32
Southern moo-cow speak: it's as if we always have something in our mouth already so it takes a bit for words to amble out (like a cow chewing cud). And many of our words are spoken drawn out like a cow speaks: not moo, but soft and mellow: mooooooooooo.
posted by mightshould 23 July | 19:06
There are entire, tedious essays on how you pronounce New Orleans and what it says about you. But even the people who live there - even those who grow up there - have different ways of saying it. Wikipedia gives us

Local pronunciations: /nuːˈɔːljənz/, /nuːˈɔːliːnz/, /nuːˈɔrliːnz/, /nuːˈɔrliːənz/, /nuːˈɔrlənz/

The Gumbo Pages, a go-to for all things related to this topic and also the project of, IIRC, an erstwhile MeFite, has this:

This is a sticky subject. As Tim Lyman mentioned above, there are oodles of ways that the locals pronounce the name of their beloved City. Natives also seem to have an instinctive grasp of what a proper pronunciation is, and can spot it in native speakers outside the City.

First off, new or-LEENS is generally a no-no. It's like putting a big, red neon sign on your head that says, "I'm not from around here." As also mentioned above, the two main exceptions are when it's pronounced like that in song lyrics (easier to rhyme, but contributes to the confusion of non-natives) and when "Orleans" stands alone without the "New", as in Orleans Parish.

So of course, there are some exceptions to this rule. I have on occasion heard some African-American native New Orleanians use the above pronunciation. I didn't say this was going to be consistent or that it wasn't going to be confusing, did I?

Here are the major standard local pronunciations of the City's name:new OR-l@ns, new AW-l@ns,new OR-lee-'@n , new AH-lee-@ns, nyoo AH-lee-'@ns. The fabled "N'Awlins", pronounced NAW-l@ns , is used by some natives for amusement, and by some non-natives who think they're being hip, but actually I've come across very few locals who actually pronounce the name of the City in this way.

Ben Fortson, an Uptown boy, adds, "There are also versions without the final -s, as in Fats Domino's "walkin' to Noo Awlin". The s-lessness is presumably from the French. Also, "Noo Awyuns", with a -y- instead of an -l-, is pretty common in my experience, and kind of interesting from a linguistic point of view. By the way, the shorter versions like Nawlins and Nawlns that you say aren't used much by locals have in fact been used at least by me all my life, for what that's worth. Maybe Uptown is diff'rint." (Yeah, it is, bra ... it's where dey got all dem shoits wid da lil' gators on 'em, and everyone has 59 rows o' teeth!)
posted by Miko 23 July | 21:27
Still challenging here after many years of residence: pronouncing Puyallup.

Also, great story link, Janetland.
posted by bearwife 23 July | 21:28
Yes, I love the link. Sort of interesting that no matter which contemporary Americanese pronunciation you choose, it's still nothing like the actual pronunciation of the name in its own language.
posted by Miko 23 July | 21:30
Hm. I guess I'll have to accept that people won't take me for a NO local. :-)
posted by jouke 24 July | 10:04
Monday Morning Motivational Music || Wanting to thank mdonley

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