MetaChat - I have such a weird, jacked up relationship to other butches

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20 October 2010

I have such a weird, jacked up relationship to other butches →[More:]
I'm a masculine type woman and I have such a weird thing with other butches. I love seeing them "in the wild" and always smile when I pass one. But I hate hanging out with butches (speaking generally) and have this reaction of seeing them as whiners and complainers. Which I know is some sort of internalized homophobia, but also I feel like, I am really friendly and outgoing and tend to get along with everyone. Even semi-homophobic people. So it's hard to relate to the tormented vibe I get from a lot of butches. On the other hand, I'm probably missing out on support and understanding I'd get from my fellow butches.

I don't know why I'm even posting this here as probably a lot of you can't exactly relate. But I think about this ALL THE TIME and I'm sort of obsessing about it today sitting in a cafe with some other of "my kind".

Maybe there's something similar for you?

post by: serazin at: 14:32 | 16 comments

Girls/women.

Divorced people.

Nerds.

People with depression and/or anxiety.

I really like people, and I really like it when they like me. But damn, yo, I keep finding reasons not to sometimes.

posted by Madamina 20 October | 15:09

For me, it's what I call Golf Dykes. They are usually fairly butch (shortish hair - often frosted, masculine clothes). & they play golf. They are closed to anyone who has not expressly passed whatever their qualifications are to be included in their exclusive circle of other Golf Dykes. It's weird, because they are aware there are other gay women around, but can't bring themselves to either look at, speak or associate with them if they are not in Said Club.

posted by chewatadistance 20 October | 15:37

For me, it's what I call Golf Dykes. They are usually fairly butch (shortish hair - often frosted, masculine clothes). & they play golf.

That is my sister, for the most part. I refer to her as a "Dinah Shore golfer."

posted by danf 20 October | 15:54

I have an affection for the Golf Dyke, but probably because I don't actually know any. I enjoy them from a distance.

posted by serazin 20 October | 15:55

I understand, serazin. Nice, sorta funny and sardonic guys get under my skin in that I see them and me competing for the same ecological niche.

posted by danf 20 October | 16:00

I often refer to the "tall man's hatred of a taller man" and have confirmed that I'm not the only tall guy I know who has this reaction! Screw you, taller guy! I'm the tall guy here!

posted by richat 20 October | 19:32

Heh, I never thought of it that way, richat but, at 6'1", I'm usually the tallest guy around and get sorta nervous if I'm not.

posted by dg 20 October | 20:05

I often refer to the "tall man's hatred of a taller man" and have confirmed that I'm not the only tall guy I know who has this reaction! Screw you, taller guy! I'm the tall guy here!

Yes, this is absolutely a big issue and problem among my people. Or maybe it's more like, "I'm taller than you! you are a shrimp compared to my awesome tallness! I'm not standing on my toes - I swear!"

Part of why I hate being around other butches is seeing behavior that reflects this kind of thinking in others and becoming aware that I have it myself.

I think there's an additional thing of being kind of embarrassed of people that reflect something about me. Which is kind of sad ):

posted by serazin 20 October | 20:43

I kind of feel this way about all people - smile at 'em in the wild, wouldn't want to hang out with one. Maybe I'm just working too hard lately.

posted by ikkyu2 20 October | 23:49

That is really difficult, and I totally hear where you're coming from. I think it happens whenever you don't feel like bending to conform to a group. So you are not that pessimistic or tormented. Suddenly you stick out in all kinds of ways and they shun you for it. You may kind of be one of them, but they won't have you because you're not enough this, or too much that, or the wrong kind of the other thing. So maybe you'd rather avoid them altogether, but then that means you never associate with anyone who shares some of your particular experiences. Yeah. It sucks. I'm sorry.

posted by halonine 21 October | 00:29

I've never hung around with many lesbians. Which is weird, since I am one. My predominant lesbian interactions have been with the person I'm dating, but not with a social circle.

All that is to preface this: I've always noticed that there's this kind of weird lesbian eye contact that happens on the street. It's a kind of knowing "I see you, I recognize you, I acknowledge you" that you don't get from anyone else you pass. And I've always noticed it more from the butchier types.

I don't know what this adds to the discussion, and it could be something totally made up, or projected, on my end. But I thought I'd throw it into the mix. I guess I'm mostly curious if anyone else (meaning serazine and chewie, I guess) has ever noticed it. And I'm also wondering now how/if it relates to what richat is talking about.

posted by mudpuppie 21 October | 01:10

I agree about the Special Butch Eye Contact, mudpuppie! I like the eye contact though, as I guess it's a way to notice my people without having to talk to them (:

posted by serazin 21 October | 09:22

I often refer to the "tall man's hatred of a taller man"

Hah! I was going to say something like that. The guys I hate are the ones just an inch or so shorter who hate me; I get this weird inferiority complex vibe from them.

"I see you, I recognize you, I acknowledge you"

The very tall get this, too, usually accompanied by "but I'm not going to make a big deal about it, since that'd be objectifying, and we all hate being objectified as the 'tall guy,' right?" Or maybe I'm projecting.

posted by mrmoonpie 21 October | 09:33

I've never hung around with many lesbians. Which is weird, since I am one. My predominant lesbian interactions have been with the person I'm dating, but not with a social circle.

This is exactly me, but with other gay men. I have several gay friends, but really the majority of my friends are straight people. At one point in my life I actively tried to make more gay friends, but now I don't worry about it. Luckily there aren't any required quotas or anything like that. :)

posted by BoringPostcards 21 October | 10:53

Au contraire, BoringPostcards! I was just speaking with the Grand High Homo Council, and they are Verrrryy concerned about you failure to meet homo socializing minimums this month!

posted by serazin 21 October | 18:50

I get this too, but mostly the Hey! I'm the witty fop here. There is only one per party! Go find your own party!

In the past the only way I could resolve the tension was furious making out. I'm better now.

posted by The Whelk 21 October | 20:09

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