MetaChat REGISTER   ||   LOGIN   ||   IMAGES ARE OFF   ||   RECENT COMMENTS




artphoto by splunge
artphoto by TheophileEscargot
artphoto by Kronos_to_Earth
artphoto by ethylene

Home

About

Search

Archives

Mecha Wiki

Metachat Eye

Emcee

IRC Channels

IRC FAQ


 RSS


Comment Feed:

RSS

22 April 2010

"hiring team" revelations [More:]
So last week / this week we interviewed a bunch of summer internship candidates. Specifically it was Boss, me, and an HR minion doing the interviewing.

I've been on interview teams before, but not at this level. Sure, it's just an internship, but these are kids who've survived their first year of law school and are still actually interested in the business, and a good internship plays a key role in their academic development.

A couple of things really hit home for me, being on "the other side of the table" as it were, for the first time - well, the first time I had any kind of real say in the hiring decision.

1) It is astonishing, and slightly worrisome how many mistakes were made on candidates' resumes / cover letters / writing samples. Especially in the current economic climate. OK so again, it's "only" an internship, but these internships are required experience for these kids to succeed and go on in their legal careers. And the thing is, I KNEW attention to detail was important, and I've always been uber-careful about my own documentation, but holy cats. Ugh. This really brought it home to me just how important it is. We threw out at least a couple dozen candidates alone just on basis of crappy writing skills / poor attention to detail / basic spelling errors. One kid even got the name of her own law school wrong in her cover letter, repeatedly, because it's the sort of title a spell checker will "correct" incorrectly for you if you're not paying attention.

So I'm just here to reiterate that, um, yea, that stuff is really important. Seriously, get someone else to review your resume, your cover letter AND any writing samples or project examples you may have to submit. I'm sure we tossed aside several worthwhile candidates based on the fact that their writing samples were just flat out terrible. Hell even I can write a better case summary than some of these kids.

2) When you do a live interview (well at least for our team) FOR FUCK'S SAKE JUST ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION(S)!! I mean, at least on our behalf, we're not trying to trick these kids; these are simple questions like "how do you prioritise?" and "tell us about a project you enjoyed; at work, in school, or otherwise.". I mean, seriously, I know interviews are stressful and people freeze up. Lord knows I've done it before, quite a few times. And the thing is, we won't eat anyone alive for having to compose their thoughts prior to answering - in fact, we prefer that. So just take a deep breath, and really think about the actual question for a minute if you need to, but don't just spew a bunch of opaque bullshit pointy-haired-boss-speak at us thinking that's gonna solve it.

3) I adore Boss, because he and I think exactly alike. We ultimately whittled the field down to 2 candidates, who we affectionately refer to as the Geek and the Politician (i.e. an introverted task oriented chap, and an extroverted, chatty, polished, smooth "people person").

Dear readers, we (meaning Boss and I) chose the Geek. And hurrah-fucking-yay for that, seriously.

I'm guessing probably 80% of any normal business folks would probably have gone with the Politician. He's pretty, witty, smooth and has a shitload of credentials, including a ton of campaign work. Our HR minion even tried to sway us in that direction.

But Boss and I talked it over, and we just got a lot better gut feeling about the Geek. True, he didn't say much, and he wasn't as polished in his delivery, but he's quite personable in his own way, his writing was more organised and concise, he seems to have better time management skills just in general, and once he got a bit more comfortable with the interview team, we felt he engaged a lot better with us, despite being shy -- meaning: he asked us some really good specific questions in return, took decent notes, and overall seemed to get what working here entails.

Also, to my Point# 2 above, what he DID say, and the answers he gave, as well as the questions he asked us, were exactly what fits the department's needs. He didn't dress it up in a lot of flowery BS, either. We feel like he's the sort of kid you can throw a tangled up mess of contracts at, and he'll gladly root through them for hours digging up all the problems. Heck, he'll probably even be happy to write me a legitimate, properly organised database for the stupid file system clusterfuck that I've been struggling to sort out since I got here.

So yay, us! We have an intern to torture for the next few months!!
Having been the Geek that was astonished to get the last (current) job I interviewed for, thank you for seeing the depth and potential of quiet smart Geeks. He might turn out to be kind of fun to have around, too. If not, the torture is always a bonus.
posted by toastedbeagle 22 April | 12:41
Last time I did this, we had an "equity specialist" HR guy in to tell us all the ways we are unretreivably bigoted, and why our gut reactions about people turn out to be dead wrong. It was really offensive.

There was another "superior" candidate, but the person hired was hired on gut reaction.
posted by danf 22 April | 13:10
I was a TA for a software engineering course that involved writing a ton of documentation right down to each team member signing off on each document. Even in a team environment, the writing skills were often horrible. Correcting tests would have been a nightmare but the prof allowed us to deduct points for spelling and grammar errors. I tell kids now, if they do nothing else in school, learn how to write five coherent paragraphs.
posted by Ardiril 22 April | 14:09
Ardiril, the scary thing is, with regard to all the candidates we ditched for their various writing-skills transgressions: these are lawyers-in-training we're talking about here. For the remainder of their (potential) careers, they are, without exception, going to have to live and die and earn their daily bread via the excellence of their writing skills and ability to compose a coherent argument. I mean, I can sort of understand engineers, especially software engineers not truly "getting" it, but law school students? Jesus wept...

toastedbeagle and danf: for the record, both Boss and I are unrepentant curmudgeonly sarcastic GenX introvert geeks ourselves. HR minions do very little to faze us.
posted by lonefrontranger 22 April | 14:32
We had a guy in our department a year or two ago that was in a management training program and had to do "rotations" around the company. He was one of those politician types. He was with us for several months. I took over a program from the lead engineer that this guy had done some work on. I spent so much time cleaning up his messes that his last name became a verb in my vocabulary meaning, "To do shoddy work in order to report progress."


I'll take the geek any day.
posted by Doohickie 22 April | 18:54
Thank you very much for posting that, lfr.

It's encouraging to know that slickness can only get you so far.

And that sometimes the geek can win!
posted by jason's_planet 22 April | 19:38
I do the majority of hiring in my office, and all of these are dead on. I send some of the more ridiculous errors to the Mister for some laughs ("98% error rate"), but one thing that guarantees you will not get an interview, no matter how qualified you may be: spelling my name wrong in the cover letter. Seriously, it's listed right there on the ad. But so many people add or remove letters, or get it completely WTF Were They Thinking wrong.
posted by rhapsodie 23 April | 10:04
It's really educational to be on the hiring side. Until I was hiring as a manager I had very little understanding of the interview process. Now I have a lot more insight into it. I echo what you say about written communications mattering - errors and informal grammar in resumes and cover letters are a death knell, especially in my field. Poor spoken communication is bad, too. Slickness is a turnoff, as is any attempt to manipulate. I've had interviews with a couple of people who I could swear were sociopathic in their attempts at charm, smooth-talking, eye contact and other manipulator-type tactics.

Some of the most important insights I've gleaned are these:

During interviews, employers are nervous. Hiring is a big deal, because once someone is on your staff, if they turn out to suck, it's much harder to get rid of them. The best way to build a good staff is to hire a good staff, not try to turn a bad egg into a good one. Hiring mistakes can cause misery down the road. This is why employers are so persnickety about resumes, thank-you letters, conduct during an interview, availability, etc. They're on the lookout for any hints of flakiness or unsuitability.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was "hire for trajectory." That is, you don't hire someone for who they are now, for their creditials and qualifications alone, but for where they're headed. Do they see your job as an important step along a path of professional growth? Do they have a pretty specific idea about where they're headed in their working life? If so, they'll probably take it seriously and apply themselves. If you get the sense they're only saying what they think are the "right" words to get the job and thus rack up another feather in the cap of No. 1, that's a bad sign.

posted by Miko 23 April | 10:13
Two years before the forming of the Velvet Underground, John Cale had a secret. || You do everything wrong.

HOME  ||   REGISTER  ||   LOGIN