I was sleeping with her ex boyfriend, and we were all living together,

That's a recipe for trouble right there.

Seems to have been! I learned a big lesson on that trip - that even when people SAY it's okay (that includes her and the ex boyfriend) it's probably not.

is that how the message was spelled? "I hope you havr grow up!"?

Because that shit is funny right there.

Yes, that is exactly how it was spelled! english is not her first language I should say, but i LOLed.

Additionally, while she was living in the house, the guy she was ACTUALLY sleeping with got arrested for coke dealing etc.

That's totally true - it's pretty much almost never okay, even when people say it is. Especially when people are in their 20s, and especially early 20s - people don't really know yet what's OK and what isn't for them, and often the need to embody a particular stance or present a particular image makes them say and try things that don't honor their actual feelings. It's unfortunate, but I used to do jobs that required a lot of communal living and observed it many times, was even involved with it once. Self-knowledge is a really important part of having healthy relationships, and young people just haven't racked up a ton of self-knowledge yet, for the most part.

Anyway, great response, very balanced and composed, and I'm sure she'll feel a little smaller for being so snarky. At some level you have to feel sorry for her for still hanging on to this past episode - there's something about it she hasn't gotten over.

well havr u?

i hasr, indeed i hasr.

so the answer was no

this is what personal blogs are for.

≡ Click to see image ≡

oops, sorry stynx, can you clarify? Have I violated the guidelines somehow? Please delete if I've broken any guidelines..

Well... since my last post was "Cream of Chicken Soup, the Update" I'll just say... havr our standards rised?

i love when i hear stories such as this. i always think i'm the only person carrying around baggage from eons ago, but it turns out i might be lighter than quite a few folks i used to know.

stynx has appeared to be super grumpy over his last few posts. something must have went sour.

you ok there stynx?

I'm fine. I'm just amazed that a post about being "mature" while showing none of the signs of maturity is being encouraged rather than questioned on this basic premise.

Actually, the reason I posted the post was because I was pround of my mature response to the message.. why do you think it wasn't mature? I really want to know, you're someone I respect and think a lot of!

Yeah, I think this is a totally A-Ok standard-issue MeCha post. I'm puzzled over the objection. Personally, I think the response Grace is talking about was indeed pretty mature - at least more so than her interlocutor's stance or expected response. And this isn't the first, and won't be the last, post talking about somebody's day-to-day interpersonal shit.

I was just about to post about muesli. Is muesli mature? With all that fiber? Please?

museli is VERY mature.

See, I try to just stay out of the threads that annoy me and let others have their fun. I don't always succeed, to my shame, but this sort of random smackdowniness seems a bit uncalled-for and out of keeping with the spirit of the thing, IMHO.

For what it's worth, I thought the response was pretty good, Grace. Not as mature as muesli, mind you, but then, what is?

i thought the nature of the mecha beast was superfluid and personal- with a good does of bunnehs picts, whuffles, griping, three point updates and screams - as opposed to mefi and it's clinical aspirations. basically i associate mecha with the god of small things and thought this particular post was 100% a-ok. a hell of a lot better than my wft post days ago which was funny to no one but myself.

maybe that's the answer: mecha is everything to everyone.

*good dose

...from someone who was an absolute bitch to me...

God, what a c--- she was...

... she seems like a massive bitch...

You don't see anything strange about calling her a cunt and a bitch while at the same time patting yourself on the back and saying how awesome you are?

Thanks for saying what I was thinking, elizard & eatdonuts. Seems like a perfectly fine thread to me, too. And it is something worth being proud of, Grace.

I have no opinion on the muesli except eating sticks might be an equivalent. :D

Now, if her response had read, "Thanks for writing, you massive bitch. I'm glad to hear from you, you insufferable c---, and I'm very sorry for any upset I've caused you in the past during my stay in your home several years ago, even though none of it was my fault. I was totally in the right and am doing much better now that I'm shot of you. If you have anything you want to say to me I am willing to tell you where to go. I hope your life is going straight down a well. Apologies again, not, and all the best to your family, who have to put up with you, Grace" then you'd have a point.

Thank you for writing. I'm sorry for any upset I may have caused you in the past during my stay in your home. However I have recently discovered the joy of muesli...

Sometimes people respond in the more mature way, while blowing off steam to friends. As in this instance. Normal.

About the larger question - I feel like there's room for a lot of personal and general minutiae here, if people aren't pushy about their personal axes to grind, or overdo it. It's meant to be an open thing.

In fact, back before twitter, I had an idea of making just an automatic open "white board" thread for little notes that would be automatically wiped away and started fresh every day (only like twitter in that immediacy, obviously, since twitter doesn't get wiped), but then sort of figured with the combination of different types of items that are posted and the number of open threads about all kinds of things, it was fairly redundant.

Sometimes people just post about a shitty thing that happened to them, or a cool thing that happened to them, or a kind of passing thought about something, and that's fine, because usually, or at least often enough, someone else feels like talking about that too. Sometimes it rubs someone the wrong way, which is apparently what has happened here, but we're just a chat place for chatting about chatty things, not Serious Website Which is Serious. By which I mean, talk about serious things freely, as the spirit moves you, but there is space for silly things, and this-happened-to-me-today things, and here's a picture of my cat, isn't she adorable?

Sometimes people respond in the more mature way, while blowing off steam to friends. As in this instance. Normal

AbsoLUTEly. When someone comes in and starts a shouting thread about MY DICKHEAD BOSS etc. I don't think that it reflects at all upon their professionalism or maturity. What it says is that they know how to moderate their emotions and save the venting for an appropriate time and place. That's what BtGoG did here - mustered the energy to make a very kindly worded response to someone who she'd had a lot of trouble with in the past, sought some validation for that, and used some colorful language to make it clear how emotional the original episode was - while she was among a sympathetic audience. Nothing in that speaks of immaturity to me.

mefi and it's clinical aspirations

Love it!

That response was definitely high-road, Grace.

All I gotta say is fucking ain't all it's cracked up to be.

Also, if you see me being considerate towards someone you know I don't much like, you can assume that deep down inside, I'm just twisting the knife. But sometimes that backfires and the kindness becomes a habit and suddenly I like the person despite all this knife twisting, and I wonder why there's murder in my soul when I just want to love.

Nice response, Grace. You're a champ.

By which I mean, talk about serious things freely, as the spirit moves you, but there is space for silly things, and this-happened-to-me-today things, and here's a picture of my cat, isn't she adorable?

It seems like there is an awful lot of complaining posts on this site, though. Yea, everyone has a bad day, but it seems like there are some people who only use this site to vent about their bad days. Totally saps my energy for posting fun stuff, what's the point? Some people just want to complain; they'll even turn a fun post into their own little vent session. I think that energy has made this site a lot less fun over the last year or so, and I know I'm not the only one who thinks so.

so here's a story for you: I just now changed the water in a vase and little bug flew up out of the vase as I put it down, eventually landing on the wall... so I smashed it, because even though I usually try to let the household insect kingdom alone as much as possible, these are weird little flying bugs that unreasonably proliferate if they're allowed to be. Except I didn't exactly smash it, I more "tapped" it with my fingers, because I didn't have something to hit it with right there, and it was going to fly away and be free to take over the world if I didn't ACT NOW, but I didn't want squished bug all over my fingers or the wall, so the smashing action didn't really take - and the bug flew off the wall...

and right up my nose.

Sad but true story. I'm still snorting and puffing air out of my nostrils.

It just goes to show you how you can be sitting in your own house, minding your own business when a bug goes right up your nose.

oops. that was posted simultaneously, tps; not as an answer to your comment.

I don't know about that... it doesn't really strike me that way in an overbearing way, but maybe people can do more uplifting or fun things along with the SHOUTING things. Never a bad idea.

I have to agree with TPS. It seems that lately mostly these sorts of "blowing off steam" post exist and it saps my energy to bother to engage.

I am sorry for my snark above, but I agree with stynxno. If you want to blow off steam, consider doing so on your own blog. I find the negative energy here upsetting, personally. ALL CAPS makes me tense. One has the right to gripe in public too, but how many of you would want to hear this sort of thing daily for your friends?

Unless "grace" was being sarcastic, responding here in the manner she did was immature; whether her acquaintance saw this post or not.

Okay, look... is it possible that these things are catching your attention more than other things? I'm asking because even though I'm too lazy right now (going on 10 pm; considering whether to have a cup of tea and read and fall asleep within 15 minutes, as usual, or go out and buy a beer) to go back and do any kind of informal tally, I've just looked back over what is on the front page, and I'm not seeing that for myself.

I recognize that this isn't exactly a data-specific kind of thing where one can pull out charts and graphs and statistics to try to convince somebody of something, because it has to do with more than that... but I don't personally get that feeling overmuch usually. I'm not trying to suppress the question, and I hope other people will chime in, yay, nay, or otherwise.

I am sorry for my snark above, but I agree with stynxno. If you want to blow off steam, consider doing so on your own blog. I find the negative energy here upsetting, personally. ALL CAPS makes me tense.

I actually find snarky, negative comments directed at other members of this site to be a bigger problem than the occasional (or even frequent) negative, complainy post. If you don't like that kind of post, you don't have to participate in it. But if you go around dropping barbed, caustic comments aimed at other Mechazens into an otherwise congenial thread, you're kind of lousing up the discourse for everyone. That, in my opinion, is a truly destructive kind of negative energy.

But if you go around dropping barbed, caustic comments aimed at other Mechazens into an otherwise congenial thread, you're kind of lousing up the discourse for everyone. That, in my opinion, is a truly destructive kind of negative energy.

There's a lot of different opinions about what makes for a negative comment. Is disagreeing with someone mean? A lot of people seem to think so. Look at this post- is it mean to say, well you know, if you feel the need to call this woman a bitch and a cunt even while being nice to her face, maybe you're not as mature as you think? A lot of people seem to think that it is mean. I don't think that's mean, I think that's honest. Are we truly a community, people in relationships relating to one another, or is this just a wall, a blog where people can write whatever without having to deal with any of the blowback? Hell, you can't even write shit on a bathroom wall without someone writing under it, oh yea well u r dumb. I don't think it's necessary for all of us to condone every dysfunctional way of thinking that runs through this site, and it's the attitude that we should because it's the "nice" thing to do that tires me more than anything.

Wow. I was going to post about something nice that happened to me today, but now I don't feel like it.

The first thing stynxno posted wasn't a disagreement, it was essentially "GYOFB". I think it is mean to post that as a comment at Metachat, since by definition we are chatty. It implies that BtGoG's sort of chat doesn't belong here.

Update: Beer. I chose beer.

Have a beer, taz; have a beer!

Beer! Is there anything it can't do?

I think it is mean to post that as a comment at Metachat, since by definition we are chatty.

My definition may be different than yours. For me, Metachat was founded as a place for people to chat, not yell, and to get away from the drama and negative vibes that can occur on the the mother site. Lately I don't feel this is the case. It feels that many people type AT the site and not TO the community. *shrug* YMMV

Ha shoulda previewed better; good on ya!

For the record I think it's easy to skip things that you think suck, and there's no real point in trying to hurt anyone. I fall short of this sometimes, but less and less often. Yeah, sometimes the complaints are a bit of a drag, but then sometimes it's an update on someone I've come to really care about over the years. Different strokes for different folks. But GYOB is like shouting Double! rude and unnecessary. Then again, it's coolest if everything's out on the table, so if you wanna be egregiously rude, hell, let it all hang out!

Also, for many of us there is no mother site.

Okay, look... is it possible that these things are catching your attention more than other things?

Absolutely. I think the amount of time a person has been on this site will affect how they see it- I've been here a long time, seen a lot of people come and go (to me, it feels like the site has almost completely turned over from when I first joined, with some exceptions), know a lot of people pretty well. Someone brand new to this site may miss seeing things that get on the nerves of someone who has been here longer.

My objection, also, was to the GYOFB comment. I've got no problem with stynxno or anyone else saying, "Y'know what? I don't think that was all that mature, and here's why." We've had some good discussions spring out of disagreements, we're capable of constructive criticism, and I'm not a fan of the 'happy flowers & unicorns we all agree all the time' approach. If all you've got to say is a one-line smackdown, though, there are other places for that.

Now I want a beer.

I'm really grateful for everyone's support! it makes me feel all warm inside.

I looked through my posts - guess I do post a lot of complainy posts, although it doesn't seem to be the majority. Basically what's up with me is that I've got a high profile job, high profile voluntary work that's related, and a lot of people expecting me to be en pointe all the time and not ever show weakness or frank honesty. Meanwhile I have severe anxiety disorder and a husband who is, while loving, not very much able to understand what I am going through.

So the bottom line is, it's very very helpful to be a part of a community where I can be a bit honest, a bit silly, let it all hang out.. while respecting the norms and the freedom of other members. So I won't be going anywhere, and I won't be restricting what I post about - although I will take into awareness the fact that it impacts on other members, so maybe if there's something negative I'll have it below the fold with a warning up top, to make it easier to avoid.

As I've said on Metafilter, I've largely grown up on Mefi and MeCha and learned from the posters here ways of healing and becoming a better person. I've made a few dear friends through MeCha as well, who accept me for who I am while gently reminding me if I've gone a little too far. I've learned social norms and how to live as a mainstream person in the mainstream world here, and I expect to be a member of this community for as long as the site is around.

So I'll keep smiling, and being me, not hiding behind a zen or happy clappy cutey screen, because having to censor myself too much would make me resent the community members.

oh, and right now, I am having a beer. What kind of beer do you drink in Athens taz? I am having a Tennents, brewed in my city of Glasgow.

Oh, and re. calling this lady a bitch etc - yea, it's not very mature. I feel mature for writing the message to her, and not-mature/honest/acknowledging of my own feelings and my own value for calling her names here. Also I literally hadn't thought of her in about 8 years so the older image of her probably was forefront in my mind when I wrote the post. It's still valid. I love people's complainy posts, because they are refreshingly honest, and too much cuteness and light is stifling and a bit dishonest. There's even the occasional bummer on Cute Overload!

/resolves to post a lot of OMG BUNNY threads in future :)

Terrapin's last line, "It feels that many people type AT the site and not TO the community", sums up my thoughts perfectly. If you want to type AT metachat, then post somewhere else because those mediums are better suited for it. Seeking validation from the community (which is what AT posts really are) shouldn't be what metachat is about. Though, for a long time, that seems to be how most people view this place.

Ok, I've been reading this and munching my meuslei popcorn. I've wavered, leaning to the just don't read it/ignore it side. In fact, I wouldn't be reading it at all except for the number of comments/drama. But stynxno's last comment riffing on Terrapin's makes a very good point. Except I'd say more people than before instead of most people. Doesn't take away from being a damn fine point.

/resolves to post a lot of OMG BUNNY threads in future :)

That's really not the answer to anything....

also, y'know i think our society is too alienated. I mean, the standard response to 'how are you' is 'fine!' I am probably in the minority here..

I do promise to contribute more - by being positive when I can, contributing light and funny things, and supporting others when they need support. I think that's the most valuable thing one can do on the site, and a huge part of what makes it a community. Avoiding negative energy doesn't necessarily solve the problem, y'know?

Is this also the muesli thread? I don't think it fits my "lifestyle" very well--that is, I associate it with hippie food co-ops and such--but I really like it. I bought a bunch on Amazon and before I go to bed, I put some in a tupperware with vanilla soy milk. In the morning, the soy milk is all soaked in and I combined it with a little plain yogurt and half a banana. So good.

also, y'know i think our society is too alienated. I mean, the standard response to 'how are you' is 'fine!'

I think this is a red herring of sorts. There's the "How are you" how-are-you, and there's the "How ARE you" how-are-you.

"Fine" is a perfectly acceptable -- and even preferable -- answer to the former. Those coworkers who give you a five-minute shitstorm when you politely ask them how they're doing in the morning, they're the ones most people end up avoiding. That's not a symptom of societal alienation. It's an example of how some people don't really understand social cues, or don't know when it's inappropriate to lasso someone in to your personal stuff.

(And that is in no way addressed at you, Grace, or a commentary on this thread. I'm just disagreeing with your assertion that "How are you/Fine" is an example of some big societal problem. Maybe within this difference of opinion, though, lies some insight into the differences within this thread.)

(Sorry for inarticulateness. I just ate a bunch of pasta.)

I actually find snarky, negative comments directed at other members of this site to be a bigger problem than the occasional (or even frequent) negative, complainy post. If you don't like that kind of post, you don't have to participate in it. But if you go around dropping barbed, caustic comments aimed at other Mechazens into an otherwise congenial thread, you're kind of lousing up the discourse for everyone. That, in my opinion, is a truly destructive kind of negative energy.

This, I agree with.

In fact, the complainy, heartachey posts are the ones that draw me into the site. They make me care; they make Internet peoples into human beings. They are give and take. And the snipey remarks are the ones that make me avoid a site altogether. If I wanted that I'd go on over to the other site.

I've been a part of more than my share of too many uncivil, brutal, mean-under-the -guise-of-straight-talk, unsympathetic online communities. I'm not interested in being a part of one more. Maybe I'm getting old but I just don't have the will or the need to fight, and I'm drained or even upset by watching other people do it. It's just unnecessary.

What's happening in this thread seems to be a release of tension that's been bubbling under the surface for a while (without my awareness.) But I don't think posting a one-line GYOB reproach can be interpreted as anything above flat-out thread-shitting. It's pretty obvious that it's not a constructive expression of disagreement or dissatisfaction.

Disagree, by all means. But do it respectfully.

*stares at plate of beans*

and on preview, what loiseau said

since this is my plate of beans, i say they are foul beans! insanely delicious despite the name.

I agree with mudpuppie - while it's true that modern Western society is to some degree actually alienating, the counter to that is that most of us know a lot more people than any individual in history could ever have known. As a result we have to negotiate varying levels of intimacy for the different people we cross paths with, and they are sort of concentric circles. If you treat people on an outer circle as you would treat people on an inner circle, you'll get exhuasted, and you'll exhaust them.

As to MetaChat: I just don't think there as many "shoulds" as others seem to think. Here's the site statement:

MetaChat is an informal place for MeFites to touch base and post, discuss and chatter about topics that may not belong on MetaFilter.

, and here's the meat of the FAQ:

What can I post?
The Metachat posting policy is that almost anything goes.

What shouldn't I post?
Slagging off other users is not cool
[stuff about linking to MetaFilter]
Don't make posts asking for gifts or contributions. More info here.

So I see only two guidelines that don't relate to MetaFilter, and neither one says "seeking validation is not OK" or "being immature is not OK." It goes on to say:

Metachat's policy is so loose that no user should ever feel the need to admonish another user for not meeting the guidelines...
So, just chill out, enjoy yourself and leave all that crap to someone else.

On the other hand, we have a long history of a de facto "well, you posted it, so take what comes" policy. I don't think it's the disagreement that's at issue - at issue is the question of whether people who post here want to accept the risk of hostile response, and whether that risk is currently inhibiting the posting of more interesting stuff.

People don't need to be "nice" all the time - and don't worry, they aren't - but if it were a nest of pure non-niceness no one at all would want to be here. To me, the hallmark of this community was always that, in general, it was full of people who were trying. Trying to connect, trying to live better lives, trying to understand things, trying not to make default snark their first response, trying to listen. I can recall an aura of general gentleness that I always really liked here.

It's not generally as gentle any more; and I think part of the reason for that is what TPS mentioned, that some users have been around awhile and have reached the point of impatience and exhaustion with some topics or people or approaches or statements, so their trigger fingers are a lot itchier than they were a couple years ago.

But when you're exhausted from a certain overexposure - that's not the site's fault. And it's helpful to recognize that's an internal factor, not an external one. That's why a lot of people are visibly working on the "skip the thread" or "drop it, log out, and walk away" responses when they get fed up, if they can't engage the point with good intent and energy. Those people are dealing with their feelings of boredom, frustration, or exhaustion in a healthy way, in a wise way.

I'm not sure if anything is really wrong with MetaChat because there is a post like this one. TPS is right that communities you know better and are more familiar with do get on your nerves more. That has been true in every community living environment, group that meets regularly, seasonal workplace, volunteer corps, or whatever that I've been involved with; there's always an old-timer/new-timer breach at some point where the old-timers get impatient with each other and with rehashing topics that they've been through a few times already and now hold less interest. There are a lot of people here now who have been here a long time and they're more worn out.

That said, I think a cursory page through the archives shows just as much complaining in the past as today. Personally, I don't feel as interested in the site as I used to, either, but I don't think there's any blame to be laid at MetaChat's feet about that. Other stuff is just going on and its role in my day and life has changed a little. If the user community here is changing - and it might be - then the mores and norms will change with it.

As always, I maintain, here as on MeFi, the solution to posts you think are "bad" is posting more, better posts.

If folks feel that there is a need to improve the discourse or post quality or something, what is it that needs improving? Let's focus on what we could do to make the site more interesting and fun to read and write on. Especially if we're seeing a major drop-off of "old-timers" - what would keep the place interesting for you? In sum, what do you come here for?

*stares at plate of beans*

Do you know how many plates of beans you'd have to eat to get the amount of fiber from just one bowl of muesli?

Let's focus on what we could do to make the site more interesting and fun to read and write on. Especially if we're seeing a major drop-off of "old-timers" - what would keep the place interesting for you?

I don't have an immediate answer to these questions but I will note here that I have noticed the dropoff in traffic lately and I believe that a lot of that has migrated to twitter. Twitter works very well for light, chatty conversations. It also seems to have another strength--it allows you greater leeway in structuring the conversations. If you like what someone has to say, you follow their twitter feed. If don't, you don't. Here on MetaChat, it's one big open space, so to speak. You have to rub elbows with a whole bunch of people, some of whom you may not like all that much.

So . . . I think what we're seeing is a pretty normal stage in the development of online forums. They start out very open and unstructured. People interact. Over time, they find that they like some people more than others. They choose to pay more attention to the people they like. Subgroups form. The community becomes less open.

Twitter is in many respects just a better format for those subgroups.

That's my theory.

Ooo, interesting theory.

Twitter - and Facebook as well I think - has "stolen" a lot of the thunder in form of conversations to posts, I've noticed that. It saddens me a bit. No wonder chimp is so popular.

i am very bad at being on twitter. if i could get it to work on the graceberry - with a viewing app similar to the facebook one and especially free with my RIM subscription like facebook - i would be twittering like heck!

The move to Twitter and Facebook is one of the reasons I use the Internet a lot less than I used to.

Twitter and facebook are marketing tools, which mecha isn't. Not that that really runs counter to what anyone's saying, but you gotta watch what you say; ceiling marketer is watching you masturbate.

I think this post is fine.

I'm not sure I buy the Twitter theory, probably because I don't use it. In any case, I also feel less addicted to Mecha than in the early days, which has nothing to do with Twitter or Facebook or any participation anywhere else.

I think Miko hit on what is, for me, the heart of it:

some users have been around awhile and have reached the point of impatience and exhaustion with some topics or people or approaches or statements, so their trigger fingers are a lot itchier than they were a couple years ago

When I've reacted churlishly and with eye-rolling, it's been because of this. (Which is no excuse, I know.)

I think for a lot of us who have been around for a long time, it's sort of like the relationship you sometimes have with extended family. You know the quirks/pitfalls of the silly cousin or the crazy uncle. And while you don't necessarily judge them, you also sometimes get exasperated enough to shout at the dinner table because ________ is doing ________ again, even after the conversation we had about it last time.

Again, that's not directed at anyone in particular. It's just something happens.

Metachat also had this weird, flirty, lovey-dovey phase after it became a regular hangout for a bunch of people. For those who were here then, I think it's hard not to compare the Now to the Then.

I made a lot of friends during the Then, and I'm very happy about that. But I also realize that it was a very strange thing, and not sustainable. Things are different around here now, partly because of some changes in the cast of characters, but also because that just wasn't going to last. Which is not a bad thing, because it wasn't 'real' in any real sense, if you know what I mean.

ceiling marketer is watching you masturbate. is being layouted all nice and purdy and hung on my wall! Thank you Hugh!

OOooH, wait , Hugh, can I put that on a t-shirt in my webshop (where nobody but me buys anything anyway but yaknow it is a functioning shop so it could happen) because I want that on a T-shirt I can wear on Friday when I meet some geeks who will laugh themselves silly at it.

ceiling marketer article from a couple of day ago.

As long as the marketers never touch the phrase, it's all yours, dabitch.

Thankyou! (I don't think marketers would get it!) Also, good link arse_hat, I'm going to go read that now, thanks.

Ooo, interesting theory.

Thank you!

I'm not sure I buy the Twitter theory, probably because I don't use it.

Me either. I would go so far as to say that I find it trivial and silly and that I have no use for it at all.

And then, one day, MetaFilter crashed. The status update blog linked to a twitter feed on how to deal with MetaFilter withdrawal. I looked around and -- hey! I remember you! And you! And I remember that guy too! I saw a whole bunch of people who used to be active here who are now active on Twitter. I had been wondering where the traffic went. And then, thanks to some hacker, I found it.

Metachat also had this weird, flirty, lovey-dovey phase after it became a regular hangout for a bunch of people. For those who were here then, I think it's hard not to compare the Now to the Then.

I made a lot of friends during the Then, and I'm very happy about that . . . Things are different around here now, partly because of some changes in the cast of characters, but also because that just wasn't going to last.

So . . . I think what we're seeing is a pretty normal stage in the development of online forums. They start out very open and unstructured. People interact. Over time, they find that they like some people more than others. They choose to pay more attention to the people they like. Subgroups form. The community becomes less open.

I think we're very much on the same page here. You're using much more personal and down-to-earth language than I am using. But I really do think we're talking about the same thing.

Living in a village vs Living in a city.

There's always going to be stuff you hate and stuff you like on the site. And sometimes, negative people are going to suck the air out of the front page and sometimes people are going to crap all over your thread because they're angry and they want to butt heads with their friends. And you'll love some people and you'll hate some people too. Mostly you'll keep things courteous with the people you hate, but that isn't always the case.

To me, this is like growing up in a village, it's normal human behaviour, and you just have to get on with the living. You can't avoid anyone because you all go to the same pub and the same shops, but you can keep interaction down. And sometimes when Bob over the road has a big old fight with Alf, you let them get on with it, and then you help them patch it up. Which they mainly do - because they live in a village.

The telling people to calm things down & not shit in threads. The pointed "I hate OMG kittens" comments. These are also part of my increasingly stretched village metaphor. If you think you're commenting in a way which is any different than the thing you're complaining about then you're wrong. It's all just interaction and you are no more right & no more wrong to do it than you are to commit that original sin. That's my opinion anyway.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the city dwellers here don't get that. Or if they do, then they don't have it encrusted into their marrows. Which is fine too.

We do our best, and if we hate it or if we are bored with it too much we leave. The site changes, but not so much.

Ach.
I'm overextending here. Time to shut up.

This site reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch regarding Spam.

You know...spamspamspamspamspamspambakedbeansspamspamspamspamspam

If we had favorites Seanyboy would have just gotten one from me.