Do you know any Supermen: well, come to think of it, in these last few days I met alot of them who flew down to see me and were there by my side, to see if I needed them, and made sure it was there when I needed it.

I bet all families are like that though--huh!

Huh, I didn't know Louis Lane and Spiderman were acquainted.

Seriously, though, hadjiboy, I'm not sure what you're asking here. What makes a Superman? Someone who's kind and forgiving? And what do you mean by "considering we were ever like that"? Like what?

Like "kind" and "considerate" and "caring", instead of the assholes that we've now become (and I'm talking about all those jerks I've seen on the news that act as if nothing is happening, again, both, Israeli, and Palestinian)...

Louis Lane--isn't that the name of the woman that Spidy falls in love with, in Spiderman 1?

Spider-man's love interest is Mary Jane Watson. (Later Mary Jane Parker).

Superman's love interest is Lois Lane.

I'm not sure what would happen if someone from Krypton was bitten by a radioactive spider and then ventured close to Earth's yellow sun. Would there be a dash or not? Super-spider-man or Superspiderman or Superspider-man or...

I bet all families are like that though

Ah, no.

My dog thinks I'm superman.

But why can't we be more like that--honest and righteous and forgiving... what's happened to us

I'm surrounded by people like that every day.

Perhaps you need to upgrade your acquaintanceships.

Ye gods, Hadjiboy - do this instead: become that person yourself.

Dig deep, find mentors and read about how they found the answer to that same question.

What I'm in the midst of doing is making a Hero's Wall in my apartment - I'm going to buy a bunch of cheapo picture frames and fill them up with portraits of people who rose above and made the world beautiful for others. Then display them in my home for people to learn about.

Here's a short list of people you can learn about who were amazing and changed the world:

- Duke Ellington
- John Coltrane
- Yo-Yo Ma
- Jules Feiffer
- Roald Dahl

These are only a few of mine. Personal reasons only, and very much up for debate if put to a crowd.

BUT...that's how you can start. Find people you admire and admire them. If they're no longer living, imagine them looking down on you and subtly influencing your life for the better.

Surround yourself with greatness and light and you will BE the greatness and light in the world.

p.s. I also happen to think my Portuguese Water Dog, Fado, is a hero, and so he's going up on the Wall also. Your mileage may vary.

It would be impossible for everyone in the Superman universe to be universally kind and caring, as then there would be no villains for Superman to battle. I think the "Most people are good, some people are warped" model still holds.

For LT, Saint John Coltrane Church in San Francisco.

Occhiblu - awesome.

"Damn the Rules! It's the Feeling that counts - you play all twelve notes in your solo anyway."
- John Coltrane

Words to live by.

I agree with occhiblu. "Most people are good, some people are warped" - never heard it expressed better.

In addition, almost all (barring sociopaths) warped people also contain some good and some of them can work to shift themselves from the 'warped' category.

Keep in mind that Superman is a fictional character, and a fictional hero, at that. He's an ideal type - an imagined being who has roots in the hero tales of milennia. He exists to embody qualities we value in extremely high proportions. But the point of telling hero tales is to identify the good qualities we want to encourage in people and help people to have models to emulate them.

It might be an interesting thread to talk about who are your heroes/admired people, and why.

In real life, often even our heroes aren't as perfect as Superman. They were human and real. Many of them had great talents and gave great gifts but had human failings and foibles, too. Many were wonderful influences in the world but no so hot to their own families. Some were able to lift others up while never freeing themselves from their own depression or self-loathing. No human being can be an ideal; we're all flawed, which is what makes us what we are and ensures that we will all fuck up from time to time, in big ways or small, without exception. All we can do is work on ourselves, and try to spend more time behaving in ways we admire than in ways we deplore.

That John Coltrane link doesn't work for me?

Oops, sorry, cat was on lap and makes typing difficult.

Saint John Coltrane Church in San Francisco.

Because not even Superman (Singerized) has the balls anymore to say the entire "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" phrase. With the loss of good examples; there is less to emulate, and ergo fewer Supermen.

Reeeve would not have said the line without "The American Way".

I'd be happy to pretend that the Routh/Singer Superman never happened.

Spider-man's love interest is Mary Jane Watson. (Later Mary Jane Parker).

GWEN STACY: NEVAR FORGET

There are still plenty of fictional characters who offer an unrealistic representation of what it means to be human. You're just not looking hard enough.

I always thought Superman was a bit of a drip. Great muscles, but the dull conversations! Ye gods, I'd be looking to slit my throat after 10 minutes with the guy. Gimme Batman any day.

I think that we develop a hard shell when we live in big cities, because we have to cope with so many nasty people that we lose the ability to be open. I was constantly shocked by how callously people treated each other in London (e.g. I witnessed a senior citizen knocked over by a middle-aged man in a hurry for his train - he did not even stop to see if she was OK). In the smaller cities and towns, people seem more honest, open, and caring. I lived in Binghamton NY for a year - people there were so nice. Now I live near Philadelphia, a big city where people can be very hard on strangers. I have always sworn that I won't let it happen to me -- but it does take a conscious effort of will. Especially when people around you make fun of you for being too "soft" and not sufficiently competitive for the "real world."

Conversations? How great would the conversations be with Batman, really? "Excuse me, I have to go brood now," or "Your parents don't like me? Well at least you have parents. So excuse me, I have to go brood now," or the ever popular " [stony silence of brooding] ".

As Syndrome in The Incredibles says, "when everyone's super, [laughs maniacally] no one will be."

Thanks Susurration, that's exactly what I was talking about--we're all so wrapped up in our own little worlds that we don't even stop to think about other people, even those who we hurt--like that guy who was running for that train...

Also, yeah: I forgot about Batman--another guy who I love to love! (The new version at least, played by Christian Bale.)

Thanks all for your comments! Much appreciated:)

we're all so wrapped up in our own little worlds that we don't even stop to think about other people,

Take it from someone who deals with other people all day for a living, other people are are assholes just like us.

Hello, I am the buzzman. I'm at the office tonight, working on a bottle of Glenlivet. If you have problems in your neighborhood; please leave an email or voicemail, I will return your call and respond as soon as I am sober to.

In an American way, of course.

Oooops! I meant she Susurration, like that "woman" who was running for that train--should've kicked the guy who knocked her over in the nuts...

Why are there not more Supermen?

The answer is quite simple: we are, each and every one of us, flawed, fallible, fucked-up human beings, to borrow a phrase from Albert Ellis. We aren't like Superman because our nature doesn't incline in that direction.

An important part of growing up is learning to accept people's shortcomings and love them anyway.

I'm not talking about accepting peoples short-comings--jason's_planet--but at least hoping that they won't go out of their way to act like clueless jerks...

at least hoping that they won't go out of their way to act like clueless jerks...

Even you will do it sometime, without even knowing it.

That depends on your definition of clueless jerk then: if I ever sink so low as to destroy another human life, may God have mercy on my soul!

Do you really think many "clueless jerks" "destroy another human life"? I don't. I think, in most cases, destroying a life takes focus and drive.

We're talking about two different types of "clueless jerks" then. One: those who make the plan "and have the focus and drive", and two: those who carry it out--the clueless jerks.

There will always be the second type--I know--but I just wish they weren't in such high numbers... the second type that is.

I'm confused. Are we talking about Superman, or clueless jerks? Or is the opposite of Superman "clueless jerk," and so by ostensibly talking about Supermen, we are also necessarily talking about the clueless jerks? Or, is it possible that we have uncovered an issue where "I really want to talk about how _______ destroyed my life, but I think I'll let people pull it out of me because it's just much more fun that way"?

Just need some clarification.

I guess I'm talking about all the energy that's pent up in me... I want to talk about the guy's in Gaza who don't see what's happening, both Israeli and Palestinian I'm assuming; and I also want to talk about the jerk who hit me with his car when I was crossing the road--and left me for dead--while he was drunk at the time; and I want to talk about why we can't be more civil with each other: it ain't that hard you know... all we need is a little bit of understanding!

You're absolutely right, hadjiboy, it's not that hard. And I think you'll find that there is a lot of understanding here, in spite of (and because of) past history.

So I'd encourage you to post something along the lines of what you just saID: "tHE CRISES in the world are getting me down and this jerk hit me with his car (while he was drunk333))0003 and sometimes people should be more civil."***

If you posted something like that, and let go of any expectations for 'appropriate' responses, you might find an outcome that's more pleasing to you.

But if you want to talk about that stuff, don't lead off by asking "Whatever happened to Superman?" Because you're not going to get the responses you expect/want/hope for, and there's just going to be a lot of weird vibes and potential ill will created along the way with people who WANT to help you, want to have a cordial and helpful relationship with you here, but can't figure out how.

It's not that hard, as you say. It's not that hard to address a problem head-on, for example, instead of coming at it all sidewindy.

I'm truly sorry you're having a rough time. It's something I/we've seen of you here a lot. I know, and I think you believe, that Metachat is a very kind-hearted, helpful, caring place. And I hope that it can someday do for you what you want it to. But I also think there's some work that needs to be done on each side -- on ours, and on yours as well -- before *these* threads stop going *this* way.


*** I think what you need, and what everyone needs, is kittens. Because while kittens will occasionally walk across your wrists, as above, and will type nonsensical things, they will also restore your faith in the world.

"we need is a little bit of understanding!"

True, but as pups said, we also needs a bit of clear communication.

Also, of course, on metachat there's a long tradition of people making totally wide-open and/or silly and/or surreal and/or nonsense posts for people to interpret however they want and just play and have fun with... kind of community stream-of-consciousness or improv in thread form. So if a post title is ambiguous, it's likely to be taken as an "open thread" where people just riff on any part of the subject matter, sometimes seriously, more often in a jokey way.

Thank you mudpuppie, thank you for explaining all that to me. And yeah, thanks to taz too, for bearing me all these days, and letting me stay here...