YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

Why has nobody studied what percentage of people just tick boxes at random when handed a questionnaire?

However, in the interests of being a pedantic bastard, I'm going to suggest that you could be a deist (who believes that God created the world but does not intervene in it), define yourself as an atheist (not someone who thinks God intervenes in the world), but still address God in personal terms and believe God cares about you individually.

Why has nobody studied what percentage of people just tick boxes at random when handed a questionnaire?

Actually, a well-designed survey should do just that. That's why on well-designed surveys, you'll see questions like:

34) I have a personal relationship with God.

...

126) God and I have a personal relationship

Although usually less obvious.

I thought this was people who were aware of the Depeche Mode (and/or Johnny Cash cover ) song Personal Jesus

In the interests of also being pedantic, atheist means 'One who denies or disbelieves the existence of a God', which surely rules out the creation-but-no-intervention people.

Honestly? I could almost put myself in that group... though looking at the chart, I would probably end up in some other group (like, just mark me down as "doesn't know" for pretty much everything). But let me explain it this way: back when I supposedly believed in God/was religious, for as long as I can remember, there was this little voice inside that kept sputtering, "but, but, but... !"; now that I'm supposedly atheist, I still have a little voice inside that keeps sputtering, "but, but, but... !" - and I actually kind of pray all the time - not just pleas when things go/might go bad (foxhole atheist thingy), but thanks... a lot of thanks, and wishes for understanding, more strength, more compassion - that sort of thing.

Who am I talking to? Who? What? I really can't stomach the Christian God (sorry, not meaning to offend), so I'm pretty sure it's not my old Catholic group of movers and shakers I'm appealing to... and intellectually, I would say there is definitely *not* any specific spiritual entity that I am addressing. But I keep addressing something.

I is a bad atheist. And a vewy bad religionist. Still, I don't care much.

...i'm confused, isn't that just 'agnostic?' someone who is unclear on the who picture but believes in some manner?

i believe in george harrison. he's my personal god, and i really want to know him.

lol at Chrismear.

major derail:

I heard the reporting of these findings on TV. I was watching The Today Show at work. 92% of Americans believe in god. This is amazing to me. I'm an atheist but sometimes I envy people's faith. Maybe envy is the wrong word. Maybe wondrous amazement is what I'm looking for, not sarcastic amazement. I'm very content with my beliefs. I'm happy to be an Atheist, because it is who I am to the core. I'm not an Atheist that thinks religion should be diminished from our society. I'm not offended by it. Even if you're proselytizing. I try to have understanding. Sometimes I'll smile, say "no thanks" and shut the door, but I still have understanding.

I do like that "thank you Mother Earth, you are amazing and beautiful" kind of nature-loving spirituality. I love nature and am continuously amazed by it but I can't worship it. Sometimes I'll read Body and Soul magazine and other stuff like this that focuses on a broad new-agey kind of faith. I can respect it and read it but I can't get into it. I'm not new-agey or religious, period. I'm blah. I don't think anybody is watching over me or there are forces in the universe or any of that.

I was listening to an interview with Lewis Black on NPR. He wrote a new book. He's a comedian and I should take what he says with a grain of salt, but he said Atheists are the worst kind of miserable people, or something like that. He was probably trying to be funny or sarcastic. I think a lot of people of faith think Atheists are miserable, heartless people.

I will note that they didn't say who's personal God. I believe that my friends have their own personal gods.

I don't go to church to find god, I go there to be with my friends.

'Agnostic' is the position that you don't know if there is or isn't any kind god - that there's no objective proof either way.

My position as a 'fundamentalist agnostic' is that it's pretty silly to fuss over whether one does know or not. I'll debate religion and scripture back and forth for fun and entertainment, but the only thing I take seriously is the position of the Universal Life Church: "do only that which is right".

The 'militant agnostics' are like the 'evangelical atheists', saying 'you can't know, I can't know, and STOP TELLING ME YOU DO KNOW!!' A wee bit confrontational.

I think a lot of people of faith think Atheists are miserable, heartless people.

I hear that a lot from people who don't know much about it. Mostly the accepted dogma is that all atheists are just anti-christian. Most atheists start out that way, because, you know, it saturates the culture. A great many of them grow out of that phase (I call them 'young atheiests') and become humanists, and are quite happy.

We still experience the numinosity that religionists do, it just has different sources. Like taz, I'll say to myself "man what a lovely day/shot/child/thing I saw. I'm glad I saw it".

I think a lot of people of faith think Atheists are miserable, heartless people.

Yeah, we need better press, that's for sure.

The atheists who write angry diatribes to disprove the beliefs of others make it look like we're all pissed-off and out to prove others wrong. Laid-back, "live and let live" atheists who aren't angry about it tend to fly under the radar.

As for the original link, I'm pretty baffled about that. Maybe some of the respondents fell into that "I'm spiritual but not religious" category, and the pollsters classified them as atheists? (Which they wouldn't be, IMO...) Although I see they also have separate results for "Secular unaffiliated" and "Religious unaffiliated," so I dunno.

Many, many people confuse "atheist" with "anti-theist". Dawkins, I'm looking at you. Lori is probably my favorite kind of atheist; the live and let live, non-evangelical/proselytizing atheist. Anti-theists, though understandably pissed off at their upbringing, do the rest of us a disservice by co-opting the name. I take great joy from mentally punching them in their smug, hateful faces.

A-theos simply means "without or apart from God(s)." It's quite possible to live life without ever thinking about powers beyond oneself, or worshipping "nature" as Lori says.

Every time I hear the argument that God has to exist because creation is so wonderful and it's so hard to imagine it occurring spontaneously, I want to scream. I think the fact that everything around us has arisen without design or volition is the real beauty. Making up someone who build everything (rather than simply having emergent phenomena) cheapens the whole thing. No one *did* it; it just happened. And THAT is what is beautiful.

I guess I'm agnostic, eatdonuts - though I've seen a lot of definitions of agnosticism that I reject for myself (such as, it's the belief that it's impossible to know about the existence of god. I don't know that, either (and I want to put the word "god" in quotes there), so I'm just so not-knowing, I can't even commit to agnosticism.

But then again, some people see it as a stage of deciding (for or agin', I guess - sort of as described in "the Life of Pi", for example) - but that's not how I feel, either. As long as "agnostic" just means "doesn't know. at all. anything. anything at all. yet still acts as though there's *something* in the universe that represents a kind of spirituality..." Then, I guess, yeah, I'm sorta that. Maybe. Or not.

..i'm confused, isn't that just 'agnostic?' someone who is unclear on the who picture but believes in some manner?

No, an agnostic holds that the question is unanswerable.

There's also a general distinction between "strong" agnostics, who hold that knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of god, etc. is inherently unknowable, vs. "mild" agnostics, who hold that knowledge of god's existence or nonexistence is currently unknowable, so will withhold judgment until more evidence is available.

Me, I tend towards the strong side of the agnostic spectrum, but I could probably be persuaded to go with George Harrison!

I think a lot of people of faith think Atheists are miserable, heartless people.

Well, I hope I'm not heartless, but I have to admit I'm certainly not as cheerful and full of love as this cousin of mine who is a pastor here. His blog is incredibly positive and upbeat. He's VERY excited about God. I think the idea of the existence of a god is a bunch of hooey but I envy him his sense of fulfillment and happiness.

I'm an atheist and also a miserable, heartless person, but I don't think one has anything to do with the other. With different genes, I'd be a happy atheist, or a miserable, heartless believer.

I do think it's mostly nature, not nurture, and I'm firmly in the live and let live category.

It's possible the poll might be flawed - like there weren't clear answers for none of the above or something. . .

rainbaby: You believe that capacity for religious faith is determined by nature over nurture, or that general level of happiness is determined by nature? If it's the former, I gotta say it's the first time I've heard that. I've always assumed most people determined their religious beliefs through the lens of their childhood experiences.

Taz, scody, you're thinking of Ignosticism. It's a form of agnosticism, but not the only one.

Stay away from the nagnostics. They try to badger you to make up your mind.

Yes, mullacc, both. There is the guy who wrote this book, which I haven't read and may not agree with - I'm not endorsing the book - but I like the pithy expression of the title.

Having a continuous sense of self with no childhood/adult distinctions in thought patterns, I never believed. I tried, when I was quite young, because I was raised Catholic, then I was bored senseless, and by the time came around for Confirmation, (12) I refused. I attended classes and thought it through again, and knew what I thought and felt, and didn't want to disrespect the ceremony by lying about it.

yeah... I seem to be much more of an Ignostic - yet one who still constructs certain sorts of "prayers" (and not as a throwback to my so-called religious training in childhood [I'm sure of this, just trust me. do it!]), so more likely than not, not. But close. Very, very close.

Great exposition on the discussion, there, Eid; thanks for that!

I'm an atheist and I am having a great fucking time.

I throughly enjoy how everyone I know who is agnositic/atheist/questioning/nonreligious enjoys spending hours and hours of their time doing their darness to not end up being put into a specific box and given a specific label. It's as if, by being labeled and defined, they end up losing some of their special snowflake status and end up having to defend a specific set of ideas/opinions/beliefs, etc.

And it reminds me that they're no different than the Christians who do their darnest to make believe that they are really non-denominational. And that, pretty much, everyone is the same.

I guess I'm technically a strong agnostic? But I consider myself to be an atheist, because to me an unknowable god is the same thing as no god at all.

I throughly enjoy how everyone I know who is agnositic/atheist/questioning/nonreligious enjoys spending hours and hours of their time doing their darness to not end up being put into a specific box and given a specific label.

It's the same as people who are pro-woman, pro-equality, but "not feminist for x-y-z reasons". I have no problem labelling myself, as long as y'all understand that your conception of that label is probably wrong.

I'm an atheist but I'm pretty interested in thinking metaphysically about how consciousness came to be. In that endeavor, there's a magical variable I revere as completely beyond my ken that I am able to inconsequentially call "God" for interpersonal simplicity.

The last big fight I got in with my SO was over something my mother did. I was telling her over the phone about how Grandma gave me a Buick, and she sort of said "yeah that's great, wow" and that was it. Calling back, she apologized and said that she didn't say the right thing, because she didn't know how to speak to me in secular terms what she wanted to say, which was "It's a God thing."

When I related that to my SO, he sort of scoffed, thinking that was an trite aphorism of powerlessness, as he also feels about "Let go and let God." I was incensed, finding that an insensitive and atheist-biased reading of a phrase I am happy to translate as "Our world is surprisingly net good."

So I guess I have, by nature of having a peculiar and a particular, a personal relationship with God. I just don't believe it has one with me!

okay, tell me you are typing from your phone, stynx.

Not that I didn't find it throughly enjoyable. Or if I didn't, not that I'm not doing my darness to do so. Sloppy contempt is a beautiful thing, is what I keep trying to make myself believe.

I have no problem labelling myself, as long as y'all understand that your conception of that label is probably wrong.

Well said, muddgirl.

I throughly enjoy how everyone I know who is agnositic/atheist/questioning/nonreligious enjoys spending hours and hours of their time doing their darness to not end up being put into a specific box and given a specific label.

It sounds to me like those are the loud atheists, or the ones who get put on the spot often, or the ones who enjoy the hours and hours of talk. And I'm not condemning any of those categories, but almost by definition, you're not going to hear much from atheists like, say, me, who are uncomplicatedly and quietly comfortable with the simple idea: no god.

I'm wrong about plenty, and maybe this is one of those things. But since in my mind the subject is settled (in the absence of compelling new evidence, which does not thus far seem forthcoming), why would I bother to talk about it? What is there to say?

Also, what muddgirl said.

I've always assumed most people determined their religious beliefs through the lens of their childhood experiences.

I think this is true for a lot of people. I read the REVEAL survey (a survey of about 5,000 members of several protestant churches across the country- Willow Creek in Chicago was one), and one thing respondents said that brought them back to the church as adults was that they went as children.

muddgirl, you can be an apatheist, if you want!

Lori, I'm curious about the Lewis Black quote. He's a self-described atheist (I specifically remember seeing his stand-up where he says his parents gave him a top for Channukah, they called it a dreidel, but he knew a top when he saw one and hasn't been fooled by religion since, etc).

Was he referring to himself? Being miserable (and outraged) is basically Black's schtick.

I throughly enjoy how everyone I know who is agnositic/atheist/questioning/nonreligious enjoys spending hours and hours of their time doing their darness to not end up being put into a specific box and given a specific label.

"spending hours" nothing. I simply had an epiphany shortly after after grad school that the liberation theology paradigm I had about god's existence didn't actually make sense to me any longer, and that I am basically a materialist (in the philosophical sense) and therefore the question of "god" is beside the point because it's unprovable. That was pretty much the extent of it. I only found out a few months ago that there even were divisions within agnosticism by following some links on a Mefi post.

Apatheism all the way.

Or not.. you know, whatever.

I'm an athiest. I wish I could believe - in the Norse gods, that is. Their stories are so cool! I am totally down to worship trees and sip nectar in the boughs of Yggdrasil but I live in a big city and it doesn't really inspire that sort of feeling very often.

I throughly enjoy how everyone I know who is agnositic/atheist/questioning/nonreligious enjoys spending hours and hours of their time doing their darness to not end up being put into a specific box and given a specific label.

You know, that's kind of offensive.

If you want to know what I think about the presence or absence of a deity, I'll tell you, but only if you ask. After that, you're welcome to use whatever term you want to refer to what I've told you.