Friends of mine adopted two kids with FAS. The older boy, who's about 9 now, has serious learning disabilities. He's extraordinarily small for his age and has had coke-bottle glasses since he was a toddler. He's had tremendous difficulties in school -- partly because of the LDs, but also because of some socialization problems. When he was 7, he was in to hitting other school kids without warning or provocation. Now, apparently, he's stealing from them. (Have to emphasize, again, that he's much smaller than his classmates, which I'm sure makes him feel like he has to be noticed SOMEhow.) He's got over-attentive lesbian parents (one of whom is an expert on childhood education, which does NOT help the situation), so he's being told constantly of consequences. He can't seem to control his actions, though. It's like there's a storm in him that has to get out, and he has no control over it.

All that said, he's the sweetest kid I've ever known. He's got an enormous heart and is very loving, but he hasn't quite figured out yet how to deal with the internal frustration he feels.

He's obviously younger than your foster kid, so I can't paint a picture of the future. It sounds like some of the same stuff you're talking about, though.

(Oh, forgot: The one mom is the education expert. The other one is a social worker. It could be that he's just over-corrected. They're explainers. Good god, do they explain things.)

One thing that I'd keep in mind, when looking at the research, is that people who drink to major excess during pregnancy are unlikely to be winning any parenting awards once the kid is born, so the "never"s and the "always"s are likely going to get complicated by poor parenting. And I would suspect there'd be a higher than normal incidence of domestic violence or child abuse in situations where alcohol plays such a major role; a classmate of mine just reported on a paper she read talking about how oppositional behaviors frequently appear in children who witness domestic violence (which is kind of a "Duh" when you think about it, I realize).

And even if the kids are removed from the home, then you've got to factor in the trauma of losing their parents plus the uncertainty of living in foster care or the adjustment period of adoption.

And I would assume that whether they stay with their biological parents or are given up or removed, there would likely be some attachment difficulties.

I don't know anything firsthand about FAE/FAS; those are just things that pop into my head that I'd be wary of. I guess I'm basically saying: I'd find it hard to believe that any studies could adequately control for environmental effects, which would lead me to believe (hope?) that environmental changes (like consistent parenting) could ameliorate the organically caused problems.

(Also, are you sure that "organic mental disorder" really definitely refers to alcohol or drugs in this case? I know in my courses we talk about "organic disorders" just to mean something physically wrong with the person, as opposed to a psychological/emotional problem. Substance-induced brain damage would certainly be included in that, but it wouldn't be the only possibility. Nice list of things here, which includes the possibilities of traumatic head injury causing structural damage to the brain.)

That's true, I don't know. Some of his old medical documents talk about his being born drug-exposed (though nothing contemporaneous to birth). I don't know if anyone can know for sure or if it matters.

Thanks for all of the thoughts and ideas, also -- I really appreciate it. Sometimes this stuff is hard and strange.

"I don't know anything firsthand about FAE/FAS; those are just things that pop into my head that I'd be wary of. I guess I'm basically saying: I'd find it hard to believe that any studies could adequately control for environmental effects, which would lead me to believe (hope?) that environmental changes (like consistent parenting) could ameliorate the organically caused problems."

I do have firsthand experience with FAE/FAS and as much as I would like to agree with occhiblu my experience says otherwise. I am close to two families going through this and knew some kids with FAS back when I was young (I am not sure but I don't think FAS was coined yet.)

I don't mean to say FAE/FAS kids are a write off but I do think they need, more or less, lifelong assistance to one degree or another.

This was driven home just last night in a talk with the father of a 16 year old FAS child who is so very bright and yet that need to see the effect of an action just seems beyond the child.

I wish you and he well Claudia_SF.

I think it can vary pretty wildly... I read about a study that said a lot of FAS and crack babies actually catch up to their peers before elementary school is over. But, it would depend on the severity- and the environment they went into after birth. I mean, FAS alone might not be as big a problem as, say, FAS combined with severe premature birth (where a lot of the issues could come from the latter, which was caused by the former). And FAS might not be bad but combine it with malnutrition as an infant, or overall shit parenting throughout childhood, and you have a real mess.

I tangentially know someone, a real piece of work, who drank during her pregnancy. She gave birth three months early. The kid has tons of issues, but most seem to be the direct result of being so very, very premature. I have another friend, adopted as an infant, who sought out his birth mom- only to find a hardcore drunk who proceeded to hit him up for cash and readily admitted to drinking while pregnant. (turns out she didn't give him up so much as she lost parental rights). He knew he had problems as an infant and toddler, but was always told it was because he was a preemie. No one would have guessed it was FAS, and certainly not now since he's pretty much an average guy in his 30s, college grad, etc.

Good luck. It may be a struggle, but don't put all your faith in a medical book that's full of can't and never's. It's nine years this summer since medical experts told me I would never walk without assistance again. And eight years since I threw away my cane. The only finality in life is death, and I know some Elvis fans who don't even agree with that.

I have no advice. I'd just like to say that the world would be a better place if it had more people like Claudia.

Chris is very small, too -- he's 19 but he often shops in the female section or the boys section. He has a hard time gaining weight.

He's very bright -- his vocabulary is amazing and he can chatter away hilariously (mostly) nonstop like a stand up comic on stage. We talk about working together to write his life story. (He talks, I type and tape record.) He's had so many strange parts to his life. More than 40 placements over 14 years. And some really strange ones.

He's very irresponsible -- like your worst roommate ever. Dirty dishes, spilled Q-tips, spilled macaroni on the floor (cooked *and* uncooked), spilled tomato sauce, is a typical morning's discovery for me. It's like living with a raccoon.

He has (seemingly) no ability or desire to put any effort into anything. He stopped going to school and ultimately dropped out (though he wasn't earning any credits anyways). I set up GED tutoring and he wanders off and is a no show. He can do short bursts of effort and when he does he's pretty good. But no sustained anything.

I'm mostly trying to figure out where he will go/what he will do with his life. I'm hoping to get him into a 24-month transitional housing program. I'm hoping in the next year he can hold down a steady very part-time job (maybe 10 hours a week). I'm hoping that when that program ends after 24 months I can get him into permanent low-income housing. But low-income housing is very rare around here.

Mostly I want to still be his parent and always help him, but I don't want to live with him.

It's like living with a raccoon.

That cracked me up. What a wonderful description of what must be an infuriating situation.

My touchy-feely side feels compelled to point out that someone who's gone through 40 different placements in 14 years is probably being extremely reasonable in not bothering to plan too much for a long-term, stable future. Which is not to say that it's a good thing, or that it's something he'll never get over, but... yikes. Sounds like his brain basically grew up getting wired to believe that all the rules would change tomorrow, that there were no long-term consequences for anything he did. No wonder he's all over the place!

I can't imagine that's anything less than frustrating to live with.

I'm very much not diagnosing him, because I've never met him, but I wonder if information on parenting a child with an attachment disorder might be helpful? Or maybe just attachment "issues" -- googling "attachment disorder" just turned up some rather scary accounts of animal abuse, and I rather figure you'd have included that if it were going on.

Also, I've met your doggie and she seems unharmed and very well cared for. :-)

Some background on attachment theory.