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31 March 2008

east coast - west coast? Our office was just discussing a collegue who had the misfortune to sign all his letters with FirstName LastName, Ph.D. (He has a doctorate in philosophy.)

It took 5 years before people stopped harrassing him for it...[More:]

"Is Dr. LastName in? I hear he has a Ph.D!"

"Would you mind passing this on to FirstName? He has a Ph.D you know!"

"Bob? Dick? Dr. FirstName LastName, Ph.D, do you want me to pick you up a coffee while I'm out?"

He's an East Coast transplant. Obviously it's a faux pas here in Berkeley, but is it common on the east coast for people to list their credentials after their names on anything other than a CV or something else equally formal?

Sure, totally.

Dr. ThePinkSuperhero, Head Cheerleader, Ph.G (that's like a Ph.D but in Gossip)
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 31 March | 18:00
I donno, but some lawyers sign their names with ", Esq." or add the "J.D." a lot. I think it's silly.
posted by Claudia_SF 31 March | 18:01
You have a doctorate philosophy in gossip?
posted by ethylene 31 March | 18:02
Yes, but are you Claudia_San Francisco? If you are, you're in the same boat I am. Listing cred is definitely not cool in the Bay Area.
posted by small_ruminant 31 March | 18:03
When I was working in Boston, a new hire decided to try to impress us all by signing things "Firstname Lastname, Ph.D."

We all thought he was a pretentious ass. But we also knew he was a pretentious ass even without the pretentious signature, so it may have influenced our opinion of the "Ph.D." business.

(Even better was that he often screwed up the abbreviation and would sign things as "Firstname Lastname, pH.D." Which amused the hell out of me.)

The rule I've heard, which I like, and which was shared by a professor I know, was that one does not use the "Ph.D." or the "Dr." thing unless one is acting (a) officially and (b) within one's own field. So a biology professor would be "Dr. Soandso" at a biology conference or at any function at which she's representing her own university, but "Ms. Soandso" at an engineering conference or in any social situation. Obviously there are gray areas there, but I think it's a decent rule of thumb.
posted by occhiblu 31 March | 18:11
Oh, which is to say: No, I don't think it's an East Coast / West Coast thing, though I think people are more likely to react with more pronounced anti-snobbery on the West Coast.
posted by occhiblu 31 March | 18:13
I do, and yet, who builds an empire and makes a trillion dollars? Freakin' Perez.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 31 March | 18:14
Okay- so he was just being a dork. I feel better about hassling him about it then.
posted by small_ruminant 31 March | 18:14
It was a generational thing, in my southern California engineering department. Most of the older, predominantly white male, professors signed with their credentials. The younger, more multi-national, more female professors signed with "Prof. Lu" or even "Suzanne".

Dr. is a little different - at my college, they were "professors" on-campus and "Dr." off-campus. But then again, I mostly went to interdisciplinary conferences, where it would be silly to only call the bioengineers "Dr." and refer to both the biologists and the engineers by Mr. or Ms.
posted by muddgirl 31 March | 18:16
I think occhiblu just nailed the answer. I was going to say it depends upon what circle you're in. Academics from everywhere list their credentials in their conference bios and on correspondence, but when working outside their field, they might not do it because it's a lot less relevant.

The thing is, it's hugely relevant when you're trying to evaluate the weight of someone's opinion or scholarship. It really helps to know, sometimes, how much training they have, and even where they got it, so you know a bit about who they trained under and perhaps what school of thought they represent.

Where I work, we have PhDs, MA level people, BA level people, and people without a college education. Around work, people don't sign their memos with their credentials. When writing for the newsletter or something like that, they use their job title, not their credential (because yeah, it would look silly if it's not related to the topic at hand). But when speaking at a conference or symposium, they definitely use their credential or list in their bio. When writing a recommendation for an employee or intern, or when responding to something asking for their professional opinion, they usually sign off with it, too. It helps to put the information into the context to know that the opinion is coming from scholarly experience.

The MA gang hardly ever signs off with their MA or program name, though. Just the PhDs.

Since it's definitely an achievement to go all the way through to the terminal degree, and it does mean something. I usually am not bothered by it. But I would probably find it really annoying if it seemed like it was highlighted in every context and just because the person was a pompous ass.
posted by Miko 31 March | 18:22
Actually, I think he'd just received it and was super stoked, (as I would have been).

But dude! What was he thinking to open himself up for abuse like that!
posted by small_ruminant 31 March | 18:31
Occhiblu has it. The only time I use my creds is when I'm writing letters of recommendations for students and speaking at a conference. I get weirded out when people call me Dr. lleachie outside of the university setting -- even if they're former students of mine!
posted by lleachie 31 March | 18:31
I dunno. My father has a Ph.D, is a retired professor/researcher/administrator from the UC system, and I grew up in that milieu. I think it's a matter of respect, but then my father wouldn't sign Christmas cards or casual emails with his title. I know at church, at the store or whatever, people would call him Dr lastname.

As far as using the Dr or Professor title, I always used the rule that if the person could be both, then I'd use Dr. Otherwise it was Professor.

eekacat K.D (Knuckle Dragger)
posted by eekacat 31 March | 19:22
The father of an old friend of mine (back east) was so chuffed when he got his Ph.D. that he signed everything 'Dr. ____', even the hotel registry when he and his wife went on vacation. Until the time he was woken in the middle of the night because a woman staying at the hotel was in labour and they were having trouble reaching a local doctor, and he had to (somewhat sheepishly) explain that he wasn't an MD, and unless they needed someone to explain Heidegger he couldn't be much help. He never did it again.
posted by elizard 31 March | 20:17
Yeah, the only time I ever have Firstname Lastname, Ph.D. is on my work email sig. And I only use that for work-related stuff, where it is appropriate.

Sincerely,
gaspode, Ph.D.
posted by gaspode 31 March | 20:32
Quite a few of my co-workers have Ph.D.s in CS, EE or Math but you'd only know it from looking up their bios on the internal webpage. Even the company founder who is a tenured professor at a university here and invented one of the major components of modern servers is still just called FirstName.
posted by octothorpe 31 March | 21:00
I think it's a bit pretentious.

Signed,
Tree Pour, ABDMC, AGIP, DTMBDS.

(almost bachelors degree in music composition; almost graduate student in philosophy, drinks too much but doesn't smoke)
posted by treepour 31 March | 23:08
I think the reason why I've gotten responses most of the times I've written to my members of congress is because I've addressed the envelope according to protocol: The Honorable Blah Blah Blah, etc...and I address people as Dr. Whoever if they have a Ph.D. and I don't know them socially. It's a big disappointment to me that I don't have one. The only place that accepted me for a doctorate in English 12 years ago was Texas Tech and they told me that I could not have a creative dissertation--which is what I had specified on my applications.
posted by brujita 31 March | 23:33
If it's just to stroke your ego, why don't you just write "[yourname], 12 inches" on your business card? Simple, direct.

Or just get a cool name
posted by qvantamon 01 April | 00:11
My mom signs her checks Dr. Jane M. Doe, RN. She's a professor in the nursing department at a big state university, so the titles and such are, I suppose, relevant in her line of work, but her checks? Who's that for? She also always addresses letters to me with my Dr. I think that's just 'cause she's a proud mom, and knows I don't have occasion to ever use my title. I don't even like referring to medical doctors as "Dr." outside of the office.

DrMoonPie, PhD, OBE, SJ
posted by mrmoonpie 01 April | 10:08
She also always addresses letters to me with my Dr. I think that's just 'cause she's a proud mom, and knows I don't have occasion to ever use my title.

Hee. In Italy one becomes a "dottore" after graduating college, so I did like to get the occasional letter from a friend addressed to "Dottoressa Occhiblu."
posted by occhiblu 01 April | 11:26
Dr. Jane M. Doe, RN

Out of curiosity, isn't RN short for registered nurse? So how is she a doctor?
posted by amro 01 April | 11:42
Sounds like she also has a Ph.D., amro, if she's a professor? That would be my guess.
posted by occhiblu 01 April | 11:50
Ooo! I want to be a Dottoressa! Sounds like Countessa.
posted by small_ruminant 01 April | 13:57
Yeah, registered nurse from long ago, PhD more recently.
posted by mrmoonpie 01 April | 14:40
What's your drug of choice and why? || His antics stunned Jewish leaders and motorsport insiders.

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