MetaChat - For what it's worth

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28 March 2008

For what it's worth →[More:]I was quite surprised by what some of you have said in that thread. (The only person who I agreed with completely seems to be occhiblu). The rest of you missed the mark completely. Mean? Demanding?? Tell your sister to grow up??? Wow. Yeah, that's something I'm sure she needs to do. (So the next time she calls, and tells my mom she's sending a cheque for a thousand dollars because she wants her to buy something nice for herself, I'll be sure to let her know that. Or maybe, the next time I call her up to ask her if she can buy a bouquet of flowers for a friend of mine who happens to live over there, and since you need a credit card to buy stuff online, which I don't have--I'll be sure to prefix the request with a BIG FAT "GROW THE HELL UP--SIS!!!". (Never mind she'd never even think of spending that kind of amount on buying a bouquet like that for herself, but because her brother asked her to do it for him, she lovingly obliged.)

But what can you say, the girl likes flowers. (Even when she was over here, she would fill the house with flowers on Birthdays so that the house would look nice and festive.) Her Mother-in-law once mentioned to her that she'd never gotten a bouquet in her life (this 50 plus year old woman), and on her next Birthday, my sister had ordered a dozen roses or so from the US to be delivered to her house. How do you think that must've made her feel? Oh, but she was being such a kid--wasn't she...

You talk about cultural differences... here's one for you--my sisters and I lived in a house that didn't allow for us to have any boyfriends or girlfriends--heck, if a girl or boy ever called the house, we'd be in for it. So you can forget about getting flowers from someone. Which is why it's considered a big deal here maybe. (On Valentine's Day a single rose can mean so much to two lovers who can't meet because of their parents' conservative mindset--but yeah--we should all learn to grow the fuck up... thanks a lot!)

post by: hadjiboy at: 01:02 | 30 comments

Oh yeah, and don't worry--she called up today and was talking about the flower thing and said that she wasn't going beyond three. Apparently the prices are increasing over there and she doesn't want to waste any money. When asked if she could've had space for more flowers--she said sure--she'd make space for them.

(I'll be sure to pass on the lovely suggestion of telling her to grow her own though the next time she feels like getting flowers from the man she loves. You people are fucking unbelievable).

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 01:07

And one last thing before I go: I never judged anyone of you on anything that you did. Although I could've if I wanted to. We're so vastly different there are bound to be dissimilarities. But it seems that buying a bunch of roses is where you guys draw the line. Fine, whatever. I hope you guys are happy.

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 01:11

Deep breath, hadjiboy. Hold it... now exhale.

Here's the thing: you know your sister, and we don't. All we know about her is what you tell us. Right? Now, given what you presented in the flower thread, it certainly sounded, to me and to a few others as well, as if she were demanding that her husband get off his ass and hustle up some flowers for her, pronto, even though he's doing his residency and pulling 30 hour shifts.

Now, that may or may not be what's actually going on. I don't know, nor do any of the rest of us. Given that the majority of us kinda saw it that way, though, I think it's got at least a little to do with the way you presented the story. There may be some cultural differences in there as well; again, I'm in no position to say.

So. There we are. Not sure where you wanna go from here, but this whole event has kinda left me scratching my head.

posted by bmarkey 28 March | 01:20

Just a note:
I deleted this post (not arse_hat) because I thought it was the kind of thing that:
a. would go really badly
ii. would be really regretted by the poster.

hadjiboy has told me that he would prefer it remain and apparently a number of other users felt it should not have been deleted. So, against my better judgement, it's back. If it all turns to shit, don't say I didn't warn you ;-)

posted by dg 28 March | 02:55

Wow, I'm sorry hadjiboy if I started that whole thing so for the record:

1) I had no idea there was an eastern bride stereotype. In fact her flower-getting sounded quite typically american to me.

2) What I read was "hubby doin' insane shifts" and "wifey feels kind of neglected" so I put two and two together that this will be a bump in their partnership where he pulls a big load at work and might be too exhausted to be cute (ie; getting flowers), so this might be a good time for her to up her being cute to him one level. Things like that tend to come back you see, so later when he has more time to think he'll be upping his cute-level and doing nice stuff for her right back. And perhaps this will be a time when she's really busy and needs some extra tender loving care touches, you know? They're in it for the long haul, all I'm saying. I might have overinterpreted things into the situation as described by you.

My entire comment was probably tainted by the fact that I hate flowers as a romantic gesture. I buy my own when I'm in the mood, since I do like a bunch once in a while, but I don't like receiving flowers from love interests/my partner. If flowers are your sisters favorite thing ever, then it's a great romantic gesture for her obviously. For me, I melt for the wee things that shows he knows me, like picking up a leather notebook that I like or getting me the sets of ink pens I swear by etc. Someone getting me flowers doesn't know me.

posted by dabitch 28 March | 03:30

I'm sorry you were upset about this. I'm sure that nobody meant to imply anything about your sister. The only thing said was that this one thing, from how you described it, was wrong.

You're right of course. We don't know your sister. This could easily have been said and done playfully with no malice and without adding any stress to her husbands already stressful life.

For my part (and I speak only for myself here), I maybe placed the context of your story within my own stereotypes. For that I apologise. There's a wider issue for me of my own perceived cultural differences and actual cultural differences. It's thanks to your stories and you being here that these are reducing. Hopefully any misunderstandings between us can be cleared up rationally with only a bit of shouting.

I'm trying to think what I would have thought if (for example) miko had said what you had said. I'm not sure. Now, within the context of this spat I'd like to think that I'd be thinking she shouldn't do that to her husband. But, there's a probability that I would have thought she's doing it to add more flowers to her life & she's making a bit of a joke about it. Again, only speaking for myself, it's wrong that this wasn't even an option in my mind when I read your story. Again, I'm sorry.

So yeah. And finally...
Way to flame out dude. That was awesome.

Finally, finally...
It does actually piss me off that no girlfriend has ever bought me flowers. I like flowers.

posted by seanyboy 28 March | 03:53

It's good to vent/rant sometimes, hadjiboy.

I didn't comment in the thread because (a) I was really tired last night by the time I got home from work and read it and (b) other people had said what I wanted to say.

It seems people have misinterpreted or misunderstood something. But I, too, picked up on the 30-hour shift thing and so couldn't see the cuteness in your sister's behaviour.

I would guess that the demographic of most MeCha members finds the 'American Princess' type to be fairly unattractive, and the anecdote about the flowers came across - to me anyway, and, from the comments, probably other people too - as that kind of behaviour.

I'm sorry something got 'lost in translation' from how you wanted to portray your sister and how it was interpreted, and I'm glad you've been able to tell us your feelings on it. I've seen a lot of growth in you there, my friend.

posted by essexjan 28 March | 04:16

Well, since it seems this is indeed directed at me, I shall respond (I didn't see this last night).

to suggest that my sister might not be pulling her share of the weight isn't fair

I suggested no such thing. I simply concluded that hubby had heavy load with working 30 hour shifts. This does not negate her weight-pulling.

I thought you ladies would've been more supportive of her predicament
I don't see not getting flowers as a predicament, now that you've explained how much your sister really really loves flowers I gather that flowers are hugely important to her well-being and not just an empty romantic gesture. I did however understand this:
what she's looking for is some good old fashioned loving
And that is what my advice was about - partnerships are give and take and sometimes you get the short end of the love-stick (oh..waitaminute...). My suggestion was to hang in there and give a little love to the Mr who sleeps for 24 hours when he gets home, and later down the line she'll get that back (or get love back instantly because she's being that sweet he'll immediatly have to say thank you which feels so good.)

Course if she's always getting the short end of the love-stick THAT'S not good at all, obviously it's not fair if one party in the relationship is working harder than the other party on the whole love-thing.

So, in conclusion, sorry if the advice was unsolicited and not what you wanted, and once again, I'm sorry if it sounded cranky as I really didn't mean it to be at all.

posted by dabitch 28 March | 05:02

Okay, here's the thing... There are certainly bits and bytes of information that get lost in online communication; it's never possible to fill in all the gaps, so when we speak we must try to condense the essence and hope we are getting it right. None of us always get it right. This means all of us should expect misunderstandings and tangled communication at least some of the time.

T h e r e f o r e ... it's probably a good idea not to post online about things that you are likely to be very sensitive about, personal things that would hurt you if that happens to be one of the conversations that gets mixed up. I don't post much about my husband, for example... because I wouldn't want people making unwarranted judgments about him based on some bit of information that I didn't explain clearly. Because I would get angry if that happened.

So, my advice is to either share only things that you feel pretty emotionally sturdy about in case the drift of discussion goes places you don't like, and/or be very careful how you present things so that the likelihood of misunderstanding is minimal.

posted by taz 28 March | 05:56

Hadjiboy, dear heart, you are taking this way too seriously.

If the hubby wasn't working insane resident hours our answers would have been a lot different. We don't think your sister is a bad person, if that is what you are worried about-we just think that in THIS ONE THING she had lost perspective. A lot of us have lived a lot of years, and have perspective because of it. She likes flowers, yes, and is probably lonely because of his hours, yes-but the flower thing just seemed manipulative and not respectful of her husband's stressful schedule right now.

But we do NOT think she is bad. Nor do we think you are. YOu love your sister, and that's a good thing!

posted by bunnyfire 28 March | 06:10

Oh my god, I just went and re-read the My Sis thread after reading essexjan's comment (specifically the part where she mentions that she, along with others perhaps, may have misinterpreted my sister to be some kind of an "American Princess") and I can totally see how that might have come across. Yeeeesh, how could you people even have thought such a thing were possible; my sister--a spoilt brat--come on!

But seriously, I can see how you might've thought such a thing. I guess I know my sister so well I never thought such a possibility was even remotely likely, although, I sort of agree with seanyboy in one regard--you could've given her the benefit of the doubt, or me at least, to have not thought what she was doing was mean or any of those other things.

Sorry about getting upset and all, but yeah--it is good to let off steam every once in awhile (provided you don't go too far--which I hope I haven't--and if I have I want to apologize).

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 06:18

I'm sorry if it sounded cranky as I really didn't mean it to be at all.

I'm sorry too if I sounded a little harsh as well. Eh, it happens.

I guess we need to get pie in here and tell him to forget about it as well.

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 06:24

*chewie wanders cluelessly amongst the pollen laden fields of the mid-Atlantic*

posted by chewatadistance 28 March | 07:00

I'm glad you've calmed down, hadjiboy, and let me agree that there was just a failure of communication.

But also let me say that while we are talking "benefit of the doubt" that the same courtesy could have been extended to the majority of posters in that thread, by you. You're a really valuable and (I think) extremely well-liked member of MeCha. Why, all of a sudden, would a whole bunch of people have started hating on your sister? (in your mind) it's not really what threads here are like. So you also could have taken a step back, and not made any assumptions, cultural or otherwise, about what other people thought.

posted by gaspode 28 March | 07:50

Very true, gaspode.

posted by dg 28 March | 08:11

I maybe placed the context of your story within my own stereotypes

Yeah, I probably did that too. Like I mentioned in the thread, I don't really "go" for romantic gestures, and "bouquet of flowers" is a really loaded symbol in American society. I think everyone made some assumptions, based on their own culture and upbringing.

posted by muddgirl 28 March | 09:10

But also let me say that while we are talking "benefit of the doubt" that the same courtesy could have been extended to the majority of posters in that thread, by you.

It's kind of hard when everyone seems to be coming at you from all sides 'pode, but I get your point.

As for the cultural aspect of it--I thought that could be the only logical reason why there seemed to be a growing consensus that my sister was out of line in asking for what I thought was perfectly acceptable of her to be asking for, and what you all, or a majority of you, who happen to be westerners, thought was silly of her to be doing, which really, really stung, cos it made me feel about yea tall.

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 09:34

(I know, I totally see how you felt jumped on.... **hugs**)

posted by gaspode 28 March | 10:05

that felt good

posted by hadjiboy 28 March | 10:07

So, my advice is to either share only things that you feel pretty emotionally sturdy about in case the drift of discussion goes places you don't like, and/or be very careful how you present things so that the likelihood of misunderstanding is minimal.

Very wise advice for all.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 28 March | 11:06

wait... there's an "American Princess" stereotype, too? Can someone get me a manual or something? I'm feeling really out of touch.

posted by small_ruminant 28 March | 12:48

Oh, hadjiboy, I'm sorry if I came off judgemental of your sister. To tell you the truth, I feel for her, especially as she told her husband how to communicate in her love language! I was just trying to see both sides, because I've been guilty in the past of assuming the female (i.e. ME) was always right...

posted by lleachie 28 March | 13:14

wait... there's an "American Princess" stereotype, too?

Yes- have you ever seen MTV show "Super Sweet Sixteen"?

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 28 March | 13:25

Or 50% of the episodes of Bridezilla?

posted by muddgirl 28 March | 13:27

missed those somehow... but don't other countries have bridezillas too?

posted by small_ruminant 28 March | 13:57

maybe, but are their cultures as obsessed with the phenomenon as we are? It's not just that the "I'm a Princess!" mentality exists here, it's that the rest of us are so obsessed with it and repulsed by it. Ref: Paris Hilton.

posted by muddgirl 28 March | 14:00

I'm glad this thread worked out well.

(((mecha and hadji)))

posted by goo 28 March | 16:34

*Buys seanyboy flowers - sunflowers! - steals a hug.*

posted by dabitch 28 March | 17:08

Whuffles, pass 'em on!

posted by Specklet 28 March | 19:29

You will notice that the only judgement I passed in the previous-mentioned thread is that you "have a good lookin' sister". The flower thing didn't really faze me one way or the other.

posted by Doohickie 28 March | 22:17

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