MetaChat - So I was wondering,

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04 January 2008

So I was wondering, as I ducked out of this rainstorm into a coffee place on my way home, and glanced at a newspaper→[More:] which had a little sidebar about some guy who was nabbed for being a serial flasher on the bike path.

I shared the "what a creep" sentiment of the story, then as I went back into the rain on my walk to work, thought about the difference between male and female flashers.

I mean the whole context is different. Male flashers are usually alone, and flash women in situations in which the two are alone. Female flashers, at least from what I have seen, do it more "socially," meaning that they are with a group, and they probably show the wares to a group of men.

Then there is the whole "consequence" thing. Men are prosecuted, women are hooted.

I am not disagreeing with any of the status quo in this. I assume it's evolved as an outcome of the usual discrepancy in power between the sexes.

But it was interesting to ponder as I was trying to avoid puddles and fallen branches.

(As they say on talk radio. . .)

I'm out.

post by: danf at: 11:55 | 15 comments

I don't know, I thought female flashers were usually responding to the oft-repeated chorus of "show us your tits!" as opposed to just, like, randomly flashing strangers.

Usually women flash in a drunk party context, not a sexual assault one. Although I suppose the case could be made that it's just as offensive.

posted by kellydamnit 04 January | 12:01

Yeah, I feel like women flashing tend to convey the message "You want me" and men flashing tend to convey the message "I want you," so the latter becomes more predatory, but that's obviously wrapped up in layers of sexual-role stereotypes -- though reinforced by sexual assault statistics -- so... I don't know.

I've also never been flashed by a man or woman, so I don't know if my feelings about either would change if I had.

posted by occhiblu 04 January | 12:04

Also, I suspect that woman who stood on a bike path with her pants down and waved her labia at passers-by would likely be prosecuted.

While a man who took his shirt off at a party would likely be hooted.

So the original examples are a bit apples to oranges.

posted by occhiblu 04 January | 12:06

I am not disagreeing with any of the above. But it was interesting to muse on what is basically the same act (lets assume for a sec that women drop trou or raise skirt), and the context and consequences.

If I was alone somewhere, and some woman jumped out of the bushes and flashed me, it would be sorta disturbing. I'd probably run.

And some drunk guys at a party showing what they got would be equally, um, strange.

posted by danf 04 January | 12:12

But if, at that party that danf mentions, people were chanting "show us your junk", then at least it would be contextual, you would have a warning, and you could leave if the "junk" was offensive.

Futhermore, I think there IS a difference between a woman unexpectedly flashing her tits and a woman unexpectedly flashing her labia or vagina.

posted by muddgirl 04 January | 12:16

yea. it's complicated. I think part of the issue here is that schlong ≠ boobies even in the minds of us repressed, victorian americans.

chests versus nads yanno. there's a sliding scale, and it's not a misdemeanor offence like boobs are, yet dudes are STILL not allowed into most places of business shirtless, and dudes w/o shirts are pretty much relegated to the beach and/or chippendale's calendars in this country.

posted by lonefrontranger 04 January | 12:21

I just got back from the zoo and had a very disturbing encounter with a baboon.

so bright, so red...must lie down quietly now.

posted by Lipstick Thespian 04 January | 12:26

dudes w/o shirts are pretty much relegated to the beach and/or chippendale's calendars in this country

I used to love watching the Venice police forcing male American tourists to put their shirts back on, usually by saying, "This is a city, not a beach." These idiots would walk around in the middle of the city topless; it was super-classy, I tell you.

posted by occhiblu 04 January | 12:27

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by essexjan 04 January | 12:31

I think it's mostly context, not gender. I've been at parties where guys flashed their booties or junk, and ones where girls flashed their boobs or showed their butt tattoo kind of thing. The context is flirtatious, exhibitionist, and recreational.

The surprise factor and the unwanted and unrewarded nature of exposing yourself in a public place to an audience who is not interested and did not expect to see it is the grounds for prosecution, not the exposer's gender.

Women have been prosecuted for exposing their breasts, incidentally. There was a whole period of time where the public-exposure laws in New York were challenged by women had been cited for breastfeeding. I know that's gone on in other locations, as well.

posted by Miko 04 January | 12:34

See: Stephanie Simpson.

posted by togdon 04 January | 12:36

Because of the laws Miko just mentioned it actually wouldn't be illegal for me to, say, wander down the street topless. NY doesn't differentiate between shirtless men and shirtless women, in terms of the law.

The only time I've ever seen a woman go topless in public is at the pride parade, though. (I don't see public breastfeeding as going topless in public since most woman are discreet about it).

posted by kellydamnit 04 January | 12:42

Context is very, very important.

To remove the gender bias for a mo... and I'm not sure how to frame this without coming off like a COMPLETE asshole, so forgive me while I try to make a point:

I suspect that a significant majority of (hetero) males in this country have not been subjected to aggressive flashing / threatening harrassment by another man... one who might very well be physically capable of carrying out the threat implicit in said action.

posted by lonefrontranger 04 January | 12:46

Women can go topless legally in Ontario.

Men do the flasher thing as a power trip.

posted by Melinika 05 January | 03:22

My favorite is the sequence from Pink Flamingos where someone perceived to be a woman is flashed. I've had my boundaries violated every other way, but no flashing so far (though I'm always reading the NY Times in the subway).

posted by brujita 05 January | 05:34

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