Oh god no. The Jam really was one of those bands that was the perfect sum of its exact parts. Claiming to be the Jam without Weller is like taking the right angle out of the triangle and pretending you're still the Pythagorean theorem. I mean, I know Bruce and Rick feel hard done by, given how Weller treated them a quarter of a century ago, and Bruce did write 2 or 3 fairly decent tunes, but really, seriously: no.

I've been joking with friends that we should go protest outside the theater when they're in L.A. I think I'll make a picket sign reading WITHOUT WELLER IT'S JUST JELLY!

oy.

i might go see this show if they raked my leaves and paid me $30.

I thought Bruce was playing with Stiff Little Fingers? or did I make that up?

Anyway, I think Paul's got it right:

"It still means something to people and a lot of that's because we stopped at the right time, it didn't go on and become embarrassing."

bmarkey: I understand Weller's opinion, and to a degree, agree with it. However there's another side to that coin that I've come to appreciate. I recently read an essay by Chuck Klosterman about going on a 'Classic Rock Cruise' where one of the featured bands was Styx (of all people). He was writing about meeting the band at a Q&A session and remarked that guitarist JY Young looked like 'a guiy who's in in his mid-fifties who still plays in a rock and roll band' (or words to that effect. Oddly, I found myself thing 'well, if he can make a few bucks at it and still enjoys it, more power to him. what's he supposed to do, become a greeter at Wal-Mart? sit at home and watch old videos of himself?' I doubt he entertains notions of scaling commercial heights agian. he probably just likes getting on stage and playing and getting paid for it which beats the shit out of working at Sears, as a wise man once said.

to state the obvious: I am not comparing the artistic merit of Styx and the Jam here (although I occasionally enjoy both, the Jam are light-years better), I'm just talking about a thought that occured to me.

Hmm. Well, the difference here is that the Young brothers had a hand in the writing and direction of Styx (as I recall), whereas Foxton and Buckler... they weren't exactly hired hands, of course, but neither of them was the driving force behind the band. It's kinda like if Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor decided to tour as From The Stones.

It's kinda like if Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor decided to tour as From The Stones.

I'd still say 'more power to 'em.'

I thought Bruce was playing with Stiff Little Fingers? or did I make that up?

No, it's true -- he played with them since the early '90s, I believe. Rick became a postman. Or a furniture restorer. I think...

he probably just likes getting on stage and playing and getting paid for it which beats the shit out of working at Sears, as a wise man once said.

I think this is a good point. It is certainly true that on the face of it, there's nothing wrong with enjoying yourself playing music that other people enjoy, and making a buck (or a quid) in the process. My own horror no doubt stems from my admitedly purist-snob point of view vis-a-vis the Jam (and other bands of that period who are in the same league, quality-wise), and from the sense that Weller as the main force of the band was -- whether Bruce and Rick like it or not -- WAS the Jam.

Weller formed the Jam, Weller devised the Jam's look/sound/attitude/vision, Weller wrote and sang the vast, vast majority of their songs, Weller Esssentially, they were damned near hired hands. Perfectly good hired hands, of course -- there's no debate about that. And yes, Bruce wrote some fine little tunes that helped get them over the hump (and helped Weller get his nerve back) between the mediocre doldrums of The Modern World and the sheer greatness of All Mod Cons.

As Bruce and Rick have been fond of repeating ad nauseum since their own book came out in the '90s, "there were three people in the Jam and two of them were not named Paul Weller!" But though he was only 1/3 of their membership (1/4 originally, as the c. 1974 lineup was a quartet) but he represented the vast, vast majority of its sound and style. It was not a group of equals. Lots of great bands aren't.

I'm sure it is lots of fun for them to tour and play the old songs after 25 years. That's nice for them, and nice for the people -- many of them massive fans, I am sure -- who go and enjoy their show. But for me, personally, it's a fucking farce.

(guh, hit "post" instead of "preview" before I had a chance to edit! Please forgive wonky sentence constructions, etc. Also: Weller Weller Weller!)

I understand where you're coming from scody, but if say Ross the Boss and Scott Kempner decided to record without Andy Shernoff and Handsom Dick and bill themselves as "featuring Ross & Scott from the Dictators,' I'd check it out and wish them well.

I guess I just respect Weller more for calling it a day before the fire went out. I'd imagine that it's a difficult thing to do, ending a sucessful band while it's still commercially sound, but it's something that maybe should happen more often.

I have this theory that the longest a band should stick together is ten years. After the decade mark, there's usually a fair amount of suckage seeping into the work. It's not true across the board, of course, but often enough to notice.

but if say Ross the Boss and Scott Kempner decided to record without Andy Shernoff and Handsom Dick and bill themselves as "featuring Ross & Scott from the Dictators,' I'd check it out and wish them well.

This is because, when it comes to stuff like this, you have a more open mind and/or a more generous heart than I do. I'm not a snob about much, but there are some things I am definitely snobby about -- and this is smack-dab in the middle of my Territory du Snob. You, jon, seem to be missing this inclination almost entirely. (Although I think you really would like the Stone Roses, if you gave them half a chance...but that's another thread. )

I mean, I do wish Bruce and Rick well in the broader sense: I hope they lead pleasant lives and make a decent living for themselves and their families. I just won't contribute any cash to this particular enterprise.

Well, I'm as big a snob about the Dics as you are about the Jam and I realize that Andy and Handsome Dick were the core of the group, but Kempner covered the Dics 'Stay With Me' with the Del-Lords and Dion & Little Kings (his post Dictators projects). I'm not sure whether he wrote that song or what (I did some research, came up empty), but I don't blame anybody for using their credentials to promote themselves.

It's one thing to cover one song in the course of a show, and quite another to do an entire Dictators set. That's the big difference.

(Kempner recorded them with both groups post-Dics is what I'm saying, and he did it quite well, remaking the song as country rock and neo doo-wop, respectively)

I'm willing to bet that the rest of the albums were new stuff though, right? A song or two on a record is a far cry from what Foxton and Buckler are up to.

And, like scody, I don't wish them ill or anything. I just think it's a really bad idea. It's like those multiple versions of The Drifters that used to tour, each with only one original member.

I'm willing to bet that the rest of the albums were new stuff though, right?

Yeah, but he'd do a few Dics songs live, too, and at one pint Manitoba, Shernoff and Ross The Boss got together and formed Manitoba's Wild Kingdom (they had a minor hit with "The Party Starts Now!" which the Dics still perform live). What I'm saying is that spinoff outfits always trade on their past. These guys are just being a little more honest about it.

Or a lot more blatant.

And scody, if you're still reading, I have a link to a couple of Jam bootlegs I wanted to send you. (Although you've probably already got them.) Email me if you're interested.

I have not much opinion about this, other than they are not calling themselves The Jam, as other bands use the original names when there is maybe only one member left.

My other opinion is that I am glad to see Scody posting here again!

In the interest of fairness, let’s compare. Here are a couple of classic tracks as performed by From The Jam: Going Underground, and Start! (The exclamation is part of the title.)

Now, here are the originals: Going Underground, and Start!

And yes, it's great to see scody here again! (The exclamation is entirely mine.)

I imagine they'll be forced to call it 'The Jammy Dodgers' or something.

I would be more likely to go see Taylor and Wyman than I would the Stones.

Eesh. That version of "Start!" isn't bad (mostly because Foxton's "Taxman"-nicked bassline has always been the anchor of that song), but their version of "Going Underground" is just dire.

And thanks for the welcome back! (My exclamation mark, too.) A post about the Jam is kind of like sending up a (target-shaped) batsignal for me, anyway.

I was keeping a low profile for various reasons, including the fact that work's been a swamp and the fall was very personally hectic. The weekend after we moved into our new house, I had a bad car accident (though it was my first accident after 22 years of driving -- curse you, Hollywood Freeway!); about 10 days after that, my boyfriend accidentally put his hand through a window that he was trying to fix, and severed 7 tendons and several muscles in his right arm, so he had to have major surgery and hasn't been able to work (luckily he qualified for the state disability program, and has been doing really well in physical therapy getting the movement back in his hand). But we're lucky, really; things could seriously have been much, much worse for either of us.