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14 September 2007

How much money do you really want? How much money do you need each year to remove money stress, live comfortably, but not so much that you lose your existing social networks?[More:]

My number is about $75k/yr. That's assuming the house is paid off. That will cover decent vacations, fun activities for the kids, keep us in working automobiles and pay for babysitting and a little traveling, and be able to put money into retirement.
We have four kids. Right now I make about 65 percent of that number, and it's a little tight. This takes into account my spouse's perceived needs. If it were just me and the kids I think we would be ok at around 40k, assuming we moved into a smaller mortgage. But that creates other dilemmas.

/rambling
//I also realize that my wants would probably increase if I had this much money.



I just realized this sounds like a pitch for selling mutual funds or insurance or something.
posted by craniac 14 September | 11:53
Is this "social network" something I'd have to have friends to know about?
posted by interrobang 14 September | 11:54
Well, I personally have about three friends, whom I rarely see, and some family. And two of those are people I work with and our families sometimes get together.
posted by craniac 14 September | 11:58
I think the purchasing power would be at the point where you have enough discretionary income to pick up gadgets such as the iPhone, fix your car or go out to eat without having to worry budgeting. I'm not talking about compulsive consumerism, but simply not having to budget. After that point (probably ~$120k in large cities) people start collecting things: vacation homes, sports cars, coke habits.

Nassim Taleb (like all option traders who have existential angst about making too much money) put it best:

However I certainly do not buy the notion that money does not make you happy, counter to the literature on the hedonic treadmill. This idea stipulates that additional wealth leads to no long term gains owing to a reversion to a baseline. I agree with the reversion to a hedonic baseline. But if spending money does not make me happy, most certainly, having money stashed away, particularly f*** you money, makes me extremely happy, particularly compared to the dark years between the age of 20 and 25 when I was impoverished after having had an opulent childhood. There is something severely missing in the literature, the awareness of the idea best expressed in the old trader adage: the worst thing you could possibly do with money is spend it. Having no argumentative customers increases my life satisfaction. Not depending on other people’s subjective assessment increases my life satisfaction. Not being an inmate in some corporate structure increases my life satisfaction. Not doing some things increases my life satisfaction. Having the option to give everything away to go live as a hermit in the desert or as a social worker in Africa, increases my life satisfaction. Either nobody in these papers and papers tested for that, or he can’t get it published.

Ideally in an ideal situation you would live simply with a hidden stash somewhere that nobody knows about. Nobody hangs around with you because of your money; nobody laughs at your jokes because you are rich.


He puts it rather coarsely, but I don't take "rich" to mean Google wealthy, but enough where you can afford to do what you enjoy doing, when you enjoy doing it and not have to solely focus on personal finances. I think Plato or Aristotle also said that moderate wealth was equivalent to a certain freedom.
posted by geoff 14 September | 11:58
My number is about $75k/yr. That's assuming the house is paid off.


I think in more quantitative terms, you're wishing for something like $30,000 a year in discretionary income? That's about right. Of course it goes from "fixing a car without worrying" to "let's buy a Porsche instead!" rather quickly.
posted by geoff 14 September | 12:01
My "Fuck You Money" baseline is about $1.2 million after taxes a year. I've got quite a ways to go.
posted by cmonkey 14 September | 12:10
But then again, I'm not in debt, and I make enough to buy expensive musical gear or trips to foreign countries with minimal effort at saving up for them, and I love my job, so I guess I don't have money stress. The $1.2 mil a year would get me an army of killer robots, though, and I think that's important for a healthy mental state.
posted by cmonkey 14 September | 12:13
How much money do I want? More. I'm sure, deep down, that will always be the answer, even though I do feel blessed by all that I have now.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 14 September | 12:19
I got just about enough, I think. I could use another couple thousand for travel money; my family and friends live pretty far away.
posted by JanetLand 14 September | 12:24
My social network makes way more money than I do.
posted by mischief 14 September | 12:27
It just keeps going up every year, that's the problem. When I was 21, I figured I could live so happily on 22K a year - it would be glorious. Now I make more than 22K (not a whole lot more, but more) and it is not anywhere near enough. It seems to me that it takes 40 - 50K a year to meet basic needs/middle class living standards now for a small family, say 2 or 3 people; that's just rent/groceries/electric/phone/computer and occasional clothes and drinking binges, not even taking into account things like car repair (which is draining my savings account even as I type) or vet bills or any other emergency, let alone vacations or new cars or fun stuff like that. Or buying a house, which has gone out of reach for most of the middle class, I think.

All of which is a short way to say that, ummmm, say 150K sounds like a wonderful, distant dream to me.
posted by mygothlaundry 14 September | 12:28
I'm OK with the money we make. We're not rich, but we're secure and we have enough left over to have some fun. What I want more of is time.
posted by jrossi4r 14 September | 12:39
If we didn't live in manhattan, we would be golden. As it stands, we are fine, we have a bit we can put into retirement accounts, but we have no money left over (after that and student loan payments) at the end of a pay cycle. We would if we didn't go out. But then we would go insane.
posted by gaspode 14 September | 12:47
I could live VERY comfortably, finance a house, give some money to charity, and live relatively stressless on ... $35K USD. In Ohio, no less, where the cost of living is more than is worth the state of the state.

...and with as much comic books and good beer and single-malt as I could want.
;-)
posted by shane 14 September | 12:55
You know, I'm still waiting for that lump sum pay-off. A couple million. Five, even. Then I can: Pay off my student loans, go back to school, send my mom both to school and to therapy, get my mom a decent place to live, get myself a decent place to live, get a car that actually functions, and put some savings aside for when I and my mother both go totally batshit, like now.

Being crazy is expensive. Seriously.
posted by brina 14 September | 13:13
Yea, I have high expectations- anything less than winning a Mega-Millions jackpot ($200 million+, please!) is very sad, lol.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 14 September | 13:15
$60K would be plenty.

Most of what I love to do (make music, cook, garden, volunteer on stuff, write) doesn't cost much of anything. The main luxury expense for me would be travel, and music gear here and there. Right now I live on two-thirds of that, with a car note and some debt; with that amount and no debt I can't imagine wanting a lot more, unless I was saving for kids' college.
posted by Miko 14 September | 13:46
What I want more of is time.

jrossi4r FTW!
posted by mike9322 14 September | 13:49
How much money do you really want?

All of it.
posted by dersins 14 September | 14:01
What I want more of is time.

NOW you're TALKIN'!

Time is golden. I'd spend chunks and chunks of it as quality time with my cats and dogs.
posted by shane 14 September | 14:17
I'm completely happy at the moment. Hell, I'm probably going to spend £1000 on a guitar tomorrow.
posted by chuckdarwin 14 September | 14:18
Yes, 30k in discretionary income, and working 16 hours a week at something I enjoy, then spending the remainder of my time on personal projects. That would totally work for me. More money than that and life starts getting weird.
posted by craniac 14 September | 14:28
On second thought, if I didn't have kids - one who might yet either go to college and/or need major amounts of bail, and one who wants to go to grad school - I could lower my amount. Sigh. Also, if I didn't have to keep replacing everything I own as the dog eats it. . hee. I feel guilty now though. I'll go down 50,000 to 100K a year.
posted by mygothlaundry 14 September | 15:27
*shrug* My kids don't have to worry.
posted by chuckdarwin 14 September | 15:41
Enough so Jon can stop selling his sperm.
posted by Pips 14 September | 18:39
*squick*
posted by Zack_Replica 14 September | 20:57
So, if I had to pay for health insurance/care, it gets pricey. I'm fine on what I make now. Would so love to build a house. Not working, or being able to work only part time, that would be so great. Being able to go back to school would be great.
posted by theora55 14 September | 21:36
Seven million, with two million liquid would meet my rather simple needs for life.
posted by StickyCarpet 15 September | 08:30
There are degrees...

If I had enough money to pay off my mortgage, and nothing else changed and I just had my salary to live on, that would be sweet.

But then it would be nice to have say, my mortgage paid off and a couple million in the bank. Then I could stop making widgets and do more meaningful things.

On the other hand, if someone were to hand me a few thousand right now or even a few hundred, I'd be thrilled about that.
posted by Orange Swan 15 September | 20:59
Time is the thing I want more of, mostly.

I would be happy (or at least content) with about AUD100k per year, which would give us enough to live easily at more or less our current level of comfort. It would allow us to put more towards retirement and to save for private high school education for the kids, instead of banking on building our equity in real estate enough by that time to finance it (scary). If it weren't for the kids, I could be happy with about 75% of that.

Of course, the truthful answer to this is always "a bit more than I have now", no matter what that amount is.
posted by dg 16 September | 17:32
BFF || Demi Moore

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