No...calling things "gay" is for seven year olds who don't quite know what the word means (and who should be set straight-- ;-)--pronto).

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if "lame" also went on a long vacation... not because I find it offensive, but just because I'm tired, tired of it.

If I were disabled, would I think lame is offensive? Maybe.

You know what bugs me? That there are still people in Britain who use the terms 'Paki shop' [cornershop] and 'Chinky' [Chinese take-away].

I actually got a bunch of shit in the Livejournal UK community because I had the audacity to suggest that these terms had outlived their usefulness.

"WE DON'T MEAN IT IN A RACIST WAY, SO WE'RE NOT BEING RACIST" they screamed, almost in unison.

'Lame' is a perfectly acceptable word in the sense of 'ineffective'; think, "a lame excuse". As a slang term that just means generally 'bad', it's a bit tired, but I don't think it's nearly as offensive as 'gay'.

The use of 'gay' to mean weak or bad is directly connected to the idea that those attributes apply to someone who is gay. The word 'lame' has a general meaning that can apply to non-tangibles, animals and people as a basic statement of fact (even if it might not be the most tactful when applied to a disabled person); its sense as applied to people is not implied when you use it to describe a thing.

In my head, anyway.

oh, I agree - no comparison. I'm just tired of "lame" popping up every other sentence... probably because of mefi, and all the "lame post/comment!" remarks.

chrismear, good distinction! Yeah that's the kinda thing I was hoping to find. "Lame" as an attribute denotes 'something missing' (the same way 'retarded' might) whereas 'gay' is only pejorative in (unfortunate) connotations.

Also re: tact when applied to a disabled person, you just reminded me of this family guy scene.

I try to avoid using lame, gyp, gay, etc in negative ways. But the latter is especially an issue with me because the term originally meant "happy" so it bugs me when people try to make it a negative thing. Of course there's nothing wrong with the term in this sort of scenario:

"dude, you like Julie Andrews and Judy Garland? That's so gay."

I say both gay and lame, but very selectively. I mean. . .some things are just. . .gay. Sorry if that's Lame.

Oh, but I don't think you are a hypocrite. If it bugs you, it bugs you.

My sixteen year old, frequently employs the word 'gay' to mean something dumb, stupid, annoying, etc. I no longer fight with him every time I hear him and his friends use the word, like I once did. I used to loudly point out for all within hearing range that my son was once a flower boy at a lesbian wedding. When he uses gay to mean a homosexual, he will say, 'the good gay, not the bad gay', thereby signalling his understanding that the word for him has two different meanings. I don't like it, he knows I don't, and perhaps that is one of the reasons that he persists in using it in my presence (damn teenagers, god, I HATE HATE HATE this age). That said, the word has worked its way into modern North American teenspeak, and I don't know if there is much to do about it. My boy and his friends know that people can be sensitive to that word and others like it, but my boy and his friends decry all of the 'sensitivity', touchy-feely shit they see from their elders who were raised/educated in a rather PC environment. I remember being quite taken upon learning about the reclamation of words, and re-appropriating them, taking those ugly words like nigger and faggot, and turning use thereof upon its head. How those words were taken back by the groups they were meant to injure, and who then made them their own. My son isn't gay, and most of his close friends aren't either (as far as I know, although I would welcome them with open arms if they ever decided to share with me that they were), but somehow their use of this word 'gay' (which, I should explain, has been the source of a major battle in this household for years, even when we lived in a non-English speaking country!), seems like their own co-opting of the word. New use.

I try to use "assy" as a replacement for "lame" as often as possible because no one could possibly get offended about a butt-related comment.

I don't use "gay", but I sometimes use "retarded". Like rainbaby said about "lame", sometimes things are just "retarded". Like companies that are still only accepting information via paper methods (mail and fax)- COME ON.

The BBC rendered a verdict on this subject because the fat, odious, unfunny Chris Moyles used it on air to mean 'uncool'.

However, when the fat, odious, unfunny Jeremy Clarkson used the term 'ginger beer' (queer) he was fined.

I'd say, yeah, you're a hypocrite, but so is everyone else. People come up with satisfying reasons for themselves, but are unlikely to apply the same reasoning to others' use of "lame" or "gay" or similarly questionable words, but that's just because hypocrisy is such a part of us, and we're so conditioned to despise it, that we have great difficulty viewing ourselves as hypocrites. If it bothers you to use "lame," don't use it. You'll know why, and you might get a chance to explain your reasons to somebody.

"Gay" has been part of North American teenspeak for a long time. Before that, they said "queer." We don't say "cripple," but it's okay to say "lame" anywhere. We pick and choose who we casually insult, what words we assign meanings to, and it just so happens that homosexuals have a better recent record of standing up for themselves in the face of bigotry, conscious or un-, than do disabled people.

It's interesting to see how these tactics work: obviously some believe that you can change the language at its broadest, most casual level and thus change the way people think; others want to change language, sure, but only inasmuch as it applies to and hurts them specifically. Or maybe one group has actual physical challenges to overcome before they can address the widespread and casual slurs so deeply ingrained in thought and speech, while the other has the leisure and the power to make a battleground of words. Not that it's is all daisies and flirtinis on the one hand and hundred-foot staircases in the driving rain on the other, but there are different challenges being faced, and there's just never been the kind of push for discouraging use of "lame" that there has been for "gay."

People don't like being called hypocrites, and for doing something you doubtless dislike, I'm sorry. But I myself am a hypocrite, and everybody who does and says anything, ever, is eventually a hypocrite, at least by the standards we use to judge others' hypocrisy, so what I mean is, yeah, you're a hypocrite, but no; it's no big deal.

That's a really interesting question, though. Food for thought.

I used the word "lame" prejoratively in the presence of my young niece. When she asked my sister what that meant, my sister (a physical therapist who works primarily with children) discreetly explained that how some people use the word, but that it's not a word she would use. She's seen too many kids hurt by it.

I've tried to excise it from my lexicon since that day. I still slip, but my sister is closer to the subject than I am and she helped shape my opinion.

I had a former housemate who loathed "gay" as a pejorative, but used "retarded" frequently. I don't get that.

I use retarded all the time. Mostly in reference to myself. And I like to use gay to mean "happy," just because I'm a rebel.

You can always substitute whack, as in, That's whack.

(It took me a year in the Bronx to figure out that "whack" was bad. Now that's lame. : )

I can't think of ever hearing someone using the word "lame" in its correct definition (synonym for cripple) in regard to a person. In fact, I think the only times I ever hear it used in that sense is with horses. I don't think any of my handicapped friends would have taken it the wrong way if I called them lame.



Whereas "gay" and "retarded" are not cool. (Man, remember when 150 comments in MetaTalk was a major, big deal thread?)

retard/retarded is an unfortunate pejorative. In the context of mental retardation, it does have very specific meanings that are used for the determination of services. Many of those definitions are IQ based and cannot be applied until a person reaches a certain age.

I am particularly sensitive to the misapplication of this word, but I tend not to open a can of whup ass. When I was teaching, I developed a particular technique for managing students who did use the 'r' word, by holding them after class and without context, showing them cute pictures of my daughter and after they're drawn in to that pointing out that more likely than not, she will be retarded and that I would prefer not to hear that word incorrectly used in my room again, thanks, would you like me to write you a pass? This technique is similar to one used by Penn and Teller for a number of their illusions. Part of the schtick is to get you, the audience, to fall in love with something, then they bring the hammer down (notably, cutting a snake in half or running a bunny through a chipper/shredder).

"I try to use "assy" as a replacement for "lame" as often as possible because no one could possibly get offended" Insensitive prick.

I don't want to come across excessively gloomy, but ask yourself this:
Why are you bothered by other people's use of these words? It doesn't sound like you belong to a group that's included in the implied stereotype, so I'm guessing it has more to do with a sense of idealism about how other people should think about and treat eachother. You're not going to have much luck changing those patterns in others, so I think you'd just be better off not concerning yourself with the matter. Do and say things the way you believe is right. Little good can come from focusing on how others fall short of those ideals.

I flinch when I hear "retarded," and I can't say it myself. Part of that may stem from going to a school with early mainstreaming, where it was definitely verboten and considered a hurtful insult.

However, I see the epithet use of 'gay' as different from 'lame' or 'retarded.' The reason is that in the latter two cases, there has been a change in usage, and those terms are no longer in use to describe the physically or mentally disabled. No one's "lame" any more in an official context; they're mobility-impaired, paraplegic, or some other more current and more specific term. People who would once have been called "retarded" are now usually described as "developmentally disabled" in therapeutic and educational contexts. The effect of the updated usage is to retire the old terms as having a specific meaning. Even terms like "moron" and "imbecile," which used to have specific meanings related to degrees of developmental disability, have lost all connection in the minds of most people to measurable mental handicap and now just mean "dumb-ass."

I see 'gay' as different because 'gay' is still the word most commonly used to mean homosexual, by all people. So it does seem hurtful, to my ears, to use the same word to mean 'pathetic' or 'weak.' To my ears, it's impossible not to hear it as a pejorative reference to actual homosexuality, an equation between someone who is gay and someone whose actions or characteristics are unacceptable or undesirable.

Kids use these words a lot, I know. I don't find much of a need to use them. It's all force of habit - I've got other things to say that fill the same need.

Yeah, now that I consider it, I guess my issue with 'gay' as pejorative is not so much a valuation of the term's innate properties as much as the fact that the rhetorical environment I've been in since HS is mostly free of such usage so when I do hear someone say it, there's a sort of instinctive social differentiation instinct that's incited (i.e. 'what a ridiculously childish thing to say, why am I talking to this person' more than 'that's offensive!')

Also thanks for the very thoughtful responses all! I just had a random reflective thought about my irritation with the usage of pejorative 'gay' and got such wonderfully incisive writeups in return. You guys rock my frequently-missing socks.

If a word moves from being an attack on a specific personal characteristic faster than than the acceptance of people who have that characteristic then it's probably OK. If a word has yet to move away from its meaning and the personal characteristic gains liberty then it's not so good. For me, racial slurs are way out. I'm on the fence for the word "gay" and "retarded" is fine.

Of course, anyone who disagrees with me is a bastard.