Become the next Bill Nye?

You need to find out exactly what it is you like and dislike about academic science, then evaluate from there. I've known people who were academics like yourself, didn't want to go into private industry, and ended up working for the the EPA. You'd also be surprised how transferable your skills really are.

gaspode - I can help you do some brainstorming. Shoot me an email...

I know you've probably mentioned this before, but what kind of science?

Also, maybe a science or environmental non-profit? They tend to like people with degrees. Idealist.org always has interesting job listings, if you just want to browse what's out there.

Do you want to be a PI or would you settle for a research associate position? We have a few of those floating around the floor and I always think how nice it would be to do science with none of the responsibilities associated with running a lab.

Oh, I should add to the transferable skills thing. I've found that Academics tend to focus on whatever their specialty is and not what broader skillsets they might have. As in "but I only know about athletes foot in pre-adolescent northern Arizona titmice." The skills needed to do a study on said titmice are skills needed to run any kind of project, but you also have all the other basic science thingies you know too, like um what those glass things are that you mix around while you go "AHA" all day.

OK yeah. I am a neuroscientist, specfically behavioral neuroendocrinology. I do rat work (sorry, vegans). I look at neural control of ovulation. Technically, I do behavior, protein stuff (ICC, western blots), HPLC, hormone assays... etc. Not much RNA stuff, just some dabbling. I work in a hypothesis-driven way. Not being a molecular biology expert is kinda not-good these days.

My publication record is so-so. A couple of first author papers a year for the past few years. A couple of reviews. I've never had my own federal funding (ineligible until last year and then I juuuuuuuust missed out on an NIH grant).

My issues with academia are so so typical

1. Funding in my field is heading downhill fast. It will be increasingly unlikely that I will be able to do exactly what I want.
2. Politics politics politics. I can't stand all the bullshit that goes on in the institutions I've worked in. The sly back-scratching or put downs that some of the professors are subject to. I've only ever worked in medical schools, so other places may be different?
3. I'm just not passionate about what I'm doing any more. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big champion of basic research, AND animals research, it's not that I don't think it's useful or that I'm not helping people blah blah, but I think my time for that is just done. I would like to have more personal satisfaction about the effect of my work upon the world. Yes, I am an idealist.

bah.

(on preview: no, LF I don't really want to be a PI. Although, ironically, I'm a much better mentor of students than I am post-doc. I get a lot more excited about my work when I have someone to teach it to)

thanks for the suggestions thus far, peeps. Y'all rock. I'll drop you a line later on in the day, chewie.

I'm 5 years into post-doc-ville

'spody my dear, I think 5 years is getting too long in postdoctorland. I am not in your field of research but maybe I can share some ideas. Have you tried applying for tenure track positions? Do not start saying 'oh I am not going to get it etc etc' because everyone who got a position like that was thinking along these lines. You might be really squeamish in the idea you will write bios and bios and go on interviews, but you know what? try it for a year and see where it gets you. You don't have to get emotionally involved, do it for ...fun. Look into hospital research. NY metro area might have a lot to offer to you too. Think outside the box.

I have been on and off the feeling 'I do not want to be a scientist anymore' for like the past 10 years. After my last postdoc I went to a well known bank to look into 'risk analysts' positions. I got so freaked out I ran back to my 'scientist' position and swore to never think about leaving it ever again.

Are you sure it isn't just your present position that is disappointing you? It might be good for you to move to a different place, work with new people (even on new, sassy projects while you stay where you are), do a slightly different kind of research. I did change a little my line of research to something a bit more popular, but I really think it was a good move. YMMV.

On preview, what LF said, opposite. If you write your own proposals and get your own moneys you might feel a little more motivated to do your work.

How about a job where you design new labs for undergraduates? Does such a thing exist? I know the third year bchm labs here need serious revamping.

If all else fails, the filling station is hiring.

Oh yeah that's right carmina. The reason I'm 5 years into post-docs (and yes, it's a long time) is that I cut the first one short when our marriage was suffering due to living in NYC and Baltimore separately due to work. So, I kind of started again up here.

*reads rest of carmina's comment now*

Okay, now on preview of your own response.

1. Funding: Interesting that you say its scarce in your field. I get all those notifications (I sent you one, remember?) to apply for grants and I am pissed at the amounts of money I see. Maybe you want to get a bit (more?) aggressive on that end? Also, all the grants I got, I got them in collaboration with other peoplz from different institutes. That's how you start. You don't apply on your own at first, cause nobody knows you. Also, how about other funding agencies or groups, NIH is surely not your only option.

2. Politics. There is a lot of it, everywhere. I hate it too and I try to stay out of it as much as I can. However, I stress that it might be your present institute that is quite bad. Other places might not be so bad. You will find places where you fit in, you have to look for them.

3. Ahh! Passion! Don't we all look for it?! Listen, I get bored when I am working on the same thing over and over again. What helps: i)collaborations -new people bring new ideas and enthousiams (pick some young people and some older folk) ii)branch out: think of slightly different ways/topics in research. iii)travel and work briefly in other places, even for a workshop, even not entirely related to what you do, you get so many new ideas.

And I just saw an ad in the back of Nature calling for editors in their NYC and London offices. Is that a possibility?

2. Politics politics politics. I can't stand all the bullshit that goes on in the institutions I've worked in... I've only ever worked in medical schools, so other places may be different?

No. It's everywhere. You cannot escape it completely; only try to find a place that keeps it to a minimum.

What about applying for assistant professorships at colleges that are primarily teaching institutions? (I'm thinking of my own alma mater, Harvey Mudd College, but there's a bunch of science colleges all over that aren't "Research I" schools). However, you would still have to do some research, and I've heard lots of complaining about the lack of grad students, and how difficult it can be to get published papers and grant money. Also, you'll be forced to become more of a generalist, which helps a lot with that "over-specialized" feeling.

2. Politics politics politics.
That's everywhere, but at least if you become a tenured professor, you can ignore most of it.

I would like to have more personal satisfaction about the effect of my work upon the world. Yes, I am an idealist...lthough, ironically, I'm a much better mentor of students than I am post-doc. I get a lot more excited about my work when I have someone to teach it to

Well, there you go. "Teaching college" ahoy!

(note: this is probably really bad advice. feel free to ignore it)

What you wanna do is write books for children about neuroendcrinology. Better that the kiddies learn it from you than on the streets.

"...little Johnny wanted a decapitated rat for his very own"

Heh.

Hmm. I don't have any science leads, but if you have any experience building spas (not only planning them, but building them too) or cultivating mushrooms (seriously, and I'm not talking psychedelics, I'm talking an honest-to-goodness mushroom farm), then I know someone you could talk to about a new line of work. You'd probably have to live in this big old mansion upstate, though.

That all sounds totally insane, but it's true, I tells ya. I am looking for spa-builders and mushroom farmers.

i'd build a spa on your mushroom farm.

My matsutake might grow its way into your sauna.

I might consider leaving science for mushrooms. Except...they give me gas. Bad gas.

Oh, dear. There seems to be a fungus among us.

I want to repeat what TPS said... there are politics everywhere. Jobs without politics are flukes, and it's true for all types of work.

Some people are actually in academia to escape the politics in private industry!

Q: Why is the political infighting so bad in academia?
A: Because the stakes are so low.

Would you be interested in something entirely unrelated to science? I have a friend who was in the same boat as you - although she wasn't working on a post-doc, she worked in some pretty prestigious university labs doing cancer research, etc. She's now working in marketing at a big strategic consulting firm where she started off as an intern. While she had zero experience in business and marketing, her science background was an asset because it taught her to be curious, methodical, logical, etc...skills that are certainly transferable.

But ya, politics...there's no avoiding politics.

Damn, and I was just thinking about getting back into academic science (albeit at a much lower level). Best of luck on your road to happiness!

You should attribute that, StickyCarpet - to Wallace Sayre.

i'd build a spa on your mushroom farm.
posted by ethylene 05 December | 15:51

My matsutake might grow its way into your sauna.
posted by Hugh Janus 05 December | 15:54

I find this the most brilliant exchange on metachat lately. That, or it's the late hour.