in the absence of any further information (whether there are kids / major assets involved...

eh hell forget it, regardless of the scenario, I'd kick the bastard to the kerb. IMO it doesn't matter. cheating is cheating and it's a non-starter for me.

I guess if I gotta pick, I'll say the romantic affair is worse, because of the emotional loooove thing. At least with the pay-for-sex thing you don't have to worry about running into him with the new love at a restaurant.

It's like asking which is worse, slitting someone's throat or strangling them to death. Either way is personal and horrible, and either way means it's finished.

I think the pay for sex thing is a million times worse.
You can almost forgive someone for falling in love. Sometimes things just happen, and they're selfish enough to act on it.
But to just straight out pay for meaningless sex? What a crushing blow to the self esteem.

He's lying either way, so they're equally bad scenarios.

I think the sex worker thing is worse. Mainly because it would require me to change my view of the man I was dating to include not only "Would cheat" but also "Would go to a prostitute." Which... I don't know, it's weird, I don't know that I'd have a problem with a guy who had gone to a prostitute, but I don't really want to be dating a guy who does go to prostitutes, in the here and now.

And yeah, I'd be far more upset if my partner were paying for sex rather than just having a tryst with someone they had feelings for.

People claim to have neutral affairs. Affection, perhaps. Experimentation, perhaps. Not love. All affairs don't end with running off with the other party. So, I guess in that case, paying/icky would be worse.

I find both scenarios equally unpleasant but just to play Devil's Advocate:

What if he going to the prostitute for some bizarre sex-fetish that couldn't be satisfied by his wife? For example, what if he was seriously into BDSM and his wife wasn't? In that case I could see him being forgiven as long as the relationship didn't suffer (ie, he stops having sex with his partner but not with the prostitute).

I'd feel worse about a romantic affair.
Sexual menu's are somewhat limited, even in the best relationships. Unless both partners are equally committed to exploring everything together. So wanting to get off for the novelty of something different is more understandable to me than someone throwing away years of emotional intimacy.

But then, I once had a girlfriend who thought masturbation was cheating.

I think it is apples and oranges. On the one hand, having my partner in love with someone else would be very wounding. In love with someone else and still faithful to me and suffering for it? Also not good.

I have been on all sides of the above, or at least in all 3 of the positions (cheater, cheatee, other person). . .it all sucks.

On the other hand, having my partner paying for sex (assuming that s/he gets some at home, and everything seems "normal") would hurt, bringing up adequacy issues, not to mention a change of bringing home some disease (OK a scenario in either case).

well, it is sex with someone you love.

IMHO, sex is nothing more than another thing your body needs to "do" like eat, sleep and shit. Sex and love really should not have anything to do with each other, especially in marriage. But, we all know I am not AT ALL mainstream when it comes to sexuality, so feel free to ignore me and my warped views.

pick it. you''ll bound to be a bit upset over yr findings, though.

If a relationship is built on vows of fidelity, all sex with others outside the relationship is bad. Period.

We don't know enough about this to judge: was ExH seeing "professional ladies", a dom or going straight for the midget transsexuals? Also, would he be having this affair with Cathy, his "work-wife" or would be just be getting bj's from Jeff, his teenage pot dealer? There are so many possibilities, it's hard to judge. Also, we don't know how much duct tape was involved. These are all vital to properly answer the question!

For me, from worst to least worst:

1. the lying, regardless whether he was paying or having an emotional affair
2. the emotional affair
3. the prostitute

But then, I've dated men who I've happily sent off to professionals to do what I didn't want to do with them. But I'm kind of odd.

Yes, we must know whether he preferred scarves or cuffs...

I think they're both equal in that they both (presumably) involve a large amount of deception to keep them secret. Say what you will about monogamous relationships - it's not cool to agree (either explicitly or implicitly) to be (sexually or emotionally) monogamous and then not be.

Also, upon consideration, I don't think that "kink she's not willing to do" necessarily means "He's somewhat justified". There are two conversations that should happen here: "Lets do something you percieve as weird." and "If you won't do it for me, then I'll go somewhere else." The first does not imply the second in the minds of many women.

"Spouse falling in love with someone else and having sex with that person" is totally worse, although either one would probably be a deal-breaker for me.

Sex with a prostitute is basically glorified masturbation. I'm not saying I'm cool with my partner doing it (because ew, gross); it would definitely be a big deal in a not good way. But emotion betrayal is just a horrible, horrible thing.

The connection that two people in love have when they're having sex is of a much more intimate nature than two people having sex just to get off. Y'know?

And: If a relationship is built on vows of fidelity, all sex with others outside the relationship is bad. Period.

Yeah, I think we all agree on that point. But are they equally bad? That's the question.

It's hard for me to decide whether one's worse than the other, because the lying/betrayal/whatnot is, by far, the worst part.

And it's, y'know, complicated. Hmm. Was ExH spending money on prostitutes that he would've otherwise used to buy H roses or fancy dinners or whatnot? And what if it was one of those purely-sexual affairs that are all the rage these days? Also: People fall in love with sex workers all the time, and many sex workers (especially the more successful ones) provide what is often referred to as a 'girlfriend' experience.

We don't know enough about this to judge: was ExH seeing "professional ladies", a dom or going straight for the midget transsexuals? Also, would he be having this affair with Cathy, his "work-wife" or would be just be getting bj's from Jeff, his teenage pot dealer? There are so many possibilities, it's hard to judge. Also, we don't know how much duct tape was involved. These are all vital to properly answer the question!

Well, I suppose they're vital if you find this sort of question and discussion titillating and need the extra info to really rev your engine.

This question wasn't meant to be at all titillating?

Or perhaps speak to emotional distance, which was the for serious part of my question. If ExH was truly driven to seek midget tannies to fufill some repressed need as opposed to wanting a second "girlfriend experience" to "keep his options open", those would be two very different things, in my opinion.

My take is that it's a draw.

Simply agreed. Partner's trust betrayed. The details hardly matter.


Sex and love really should not have anything to do with each other, especially in marriage

I'm waaayyy out on the other end of that continuum.

On an intellectual level, I feel that the topic of love and sex is so much "muddier" than we might like it to be, in terms of human need, issues of right and wrong, and deal breakers and all.

But on a personal, emotional level, I just don't like sharing my candy.

On further reflection, I'm realizing this is just another variation of the perennial 'which is worse' question. It hardly matters what's in discussion - is rape or murder worse? Is freezing to death or burning to death worse? Is poverty or neglect worse? Is OCD or schizophrenia worse? Is cancer or ALS worse? By what yardstick do you measure human pain?

There are infinite ways for us to experience the twist of the knife. What hurts more or less will vary so much with conditions, personality, specifics, timing. How can any of us say, definitively, what would be worse? Do we even know what would be worse for us? Doesn't that depend on, well, everything about you and your life's circumstance?

I can only say, both are terrible occurrences, each of which carry their own heavy little valise packed full of special pains and heartaches. What is the use of comparing their contents?

I very much like what muddgirl says, too, about communication. The real sadness in either proposed case is the disconnect between partners. There is a big leap between thinking about going outside your relationship for [whatever] and doing so. Leaping is never the only option. There are steps that can be taken, instead, that may make the leaping unnecessary.

And this is where the love part comes into play, this is where love enhances sex: love is a powerful motivator, and loving someone makes it all the more likely that you'll want to give what they ask, and ask them for what you want them to give.

If he were having sex with drugged goats that he had no feelings for, would that be okay? Just curious.

I just don't like sharing my candy.

Suddenly, I've become a pack of Starburst.

All strawberry... my favorite. : )

I actually read that as "a pack of Specklet".

I think for every couple, there are lines in the sand, so to speak, but I also think that going out and paying for sex, or having an affair which includes being in love with the other person and having sex with them cross that line for most people.

Another thread (I may work on how to "put" it and then post it) might be the nature of those lines. . .i. e. sex with one's self not crossing the line but then perhaps sex while on logged onto the net, in whatever form, venturing into the grey area. . .

I dunno. . .but I think that to Orange Swan's original question, both are pretty hurtful. (Although passing on a pack of Specklet would not be easy.)

(If this were Mefi I'd favorite Miko's comment and then reference it in every Human Relationship AskMe).

My 2c worth is that cheating is a dealbreaker. No ifs, no buts, it's over, finished, kaput, don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

In the end, though, it's all about how she feels, not about how some bunch of random strangers on the Intarweb feel. If she feels it's a dealbreaker, then it is and she doesn't have to justify it.

Yeah, what dg said.

I mean, what do we know about the situation? Not much.

This thread caused me to question some unexamined assumptions I've been carrying through my marriage. My first reaction, as a thinking-with-the-little-head typical male, is that paying for sex isn't cheating, it's just a transaction. I mean, Lady makes lovely pork chops, but sometimes I want to go out and eat barbecue, you know?

(For the record: I have never cheated on Lady in our 13 years together, and I do 90% of the cooking. So there. (But I don't know how to work the washing machine. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.))

Having a romantic affair would be wrong and adulterous and destructive and downright stupid. The excuse that "the heart wants what the heart wants" is disingenuous.

But no more so than thinking that paying for sex absolves me of the sin of adultery.

Hey, I'm a shallow asshole. Revelatory.

Off Topic: Recent studies show that 60% of people have had affairs.

I don't think there's a logical general answer to this. The answer to which is worse to me is... "The one which hurts your partner the most." Because you can't trust your partners subjective opinion, and because testing the situation is out of the question, my advice is to do neither.

I'm curious about the line that women draw, and why they draw it. (I know all lines are different.) So, for example...
- Is masturbating OK?
- How about masturbating to pornography?
- Live sex show?
- Personal Lap dance?
- Wanking in front of a prostitute?
etc...

I think I'd draw the line somewhere between masturbating to pornography and the live sex show, but I don't know why.

Just thought you'd like to know that C. enjoyed your comments quite a lot, particularly bonehead's comment about the duct tape and midget transsexuals. She just began a new job last week and thinks she will now be known as "the girl who giggles at her desk".

Oh, and you probably also would like to know that H. has indeed left her husband.

She just began a new job last week and thinks she will now be known as "the girl who giggles at her desk".

Bwahahaha! Welcome to our world, C. The zombification continues!