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27 July 2006

How much would one expect to pay for the design of a very simple web site? Simple logo, clean professional look, simple links bar on the left. Quick and easy job. Web design is cheap, right?
Where? In HTML?
posted by signal 27 July | 22:24
Yeah, in html. Where = on the internet.
posted by agropyron 27 July | 23:30
Oooh, you want it on the internet, not the internets? Well, that'll save some cash.
posted by fenriq 27 July | 23:33
Where are you? Where do you expect the designer to be?
posted by signal 27 July | 23:47
These kind of jobs always turn out to be more complex then originally anticipated if the client doesn't have a clear and final spec of what they want. That's why the designer should charge by the hour instead of by the piece. The client always, always, changes their mind.

Since you're probably the client in this case, let me tell you that it probably won't be as cheap as you think it might be. You've probably never written a spec before, right? You don't really know what you want so you'll probably need a lot of consultation. If you want a professional, you'll pay for it. If you use a student or an amateur, you'll get what you pay for (and a headache too, most likely).

You wouldn't go "Hey, roofing is cheap, right?" if you wanted to have your roof redone, would you? Treat designers with the same respect.

Yeah, you can tell this is a long-standing pet peeve of mine, huh?
posted by matildaben 28 July | 00:05
Wellll, the client is my sister, and she doesn't even know what HTML is. She just knows that the site my mom designed in 1999 using Netscape Composer is ugly as hell, and she wants to change it. I think she'd be more than satisfied with a competent student job. I know the version my cousin whipped up for his 3-week HTML class was a lot better, but he doesn't have it anymore.

Signal: The client is in a small town in Alaska. Do most web designers require a face-to-face meeting?
posted by agropyron 28 July | 00:19
Using the roofing analogy, this is like saying "hey, I threw a piece of plywood over my kid's treehouse, and it keeps it dry but it looks like crap. I just want someone to come over and put on the absolute minimal roof that looks halfway decent. That would be cheap, right?"
posted by agropyron 28 July | 00:20
And yes, Ted Stevens is her senator. I'm not sure if she's aware that the internet is not a truck.
posted by agropyron 28 July | 00:21
How many pages are you talking about?

Grab a generic template so you don't have to worry about the actual design. That's where it gets expensive. The HTML part shouldn't be to hard.

---
Actually, maybe I could take a crack at it, I need some simple stuff to put in a web design port folio. What's the site's URL?
posted by delmoi 28 July | 00:55
For more free web designs, see Open Source Web Design. Most are easy to use, come with help files, and if nothing else will give you an idea of what you'd like the end result to be.
posted by Zack_Replica 28 July | 01:58
What matildaben said. The biggest cost in these sort of things (and my experience is more programming than website design, but I think it applies) is pinning down what the client really wants.

All too often, the client unwittingly "lies", either because he doesn't actually know what he wants, and even sometimes because he's trying to "help" you by making things "easy". All too often, clients who aren't technical think easy things are hard ("wow, you can change the color that fast!") and hard things easy ("what's so difficult about scheduling a travelling salesman's stops?")

The largest part of good design is, essentially, trying to "trap" the client into admitting inconsistencies or things they forgot, or things that take for granted and so never mention. ("But all out pages have Official Logo on them, that goes without saying", "But our customers always expect to be able to get a CSV download straight from the database, that's how they've done it since 1985"). I try to use a Socratic dialog version of Use Cases; even so, much of the time is spent defining terms. sometimes clients often don't understand why terms have to be defined so precisely, and resent being raked over the coals. (Good clients don't.) It's nothing malicious, it's just necessary if you're going to give them a product that actually works the way they want.

And it burns lots of hours if done right, and burns exponentially more if done wrong. I've been handed 90-page requirements documents that took six months to produce, but had nothing to do with how the client's actual business rules. And that thing was produced in-house. So I spent several months interactively quizzing the client, while rapid-prototyping stuff he could sign off on or ask for more work on. (Six months later, I had a heart attack. Not related, I'm sure.)

If you really want cheap, you tell the designer, "do whatever, and I'll accept it". But that's how you got the site you have now, the one you don't like.
posted by orthogonality 28 July | 03:33
As a data point, I just did a really simple site for a hairdresser. Five static pages, two style sheets, a little bit of image processing. Charged 100 pounds. Took me about four hours total, plus two meetings. Oh, and I'm an amateur.
posted by milquetoast 28 July | 06:30
agro: my question about location was because there isn't a worldwide pay scale. I'm in Chile. The least I've charged for a website has been USD$500, the most USD$16000.
And ortho and 'tilda are right on the money.

Give as a URL, why don't you?
posted by signal 28 July | 08:54
It should cost $50 for the basic design. Change orders are $200 each.
posted by warbaby 28 July | 08:54
Agro-

My old boss used to drill the "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick Two" motto into us. Boy did that hurt!

As another data point, I sometimes do freelance design work when people come to me. I don't advertise or seek it out because I find it all to be more of a hassle than it's usually worth given I have a full-time job and two time consuming after work activities already biting at my heels.

That said, I never charge a flat fee because there are always change requests no matter how solid the spec. For my friends I charge 50 USD an hour, for businesses or non-friends, I charge 75 an hour.

You can most certainly get it cheaper, a lot cheaper in some cases, but according to my old boss, you just eliminated one of your choices.
posted by safetyfork 28 July | 08:57
I'm kidding, but that's how my boss bids my work (database consulting.) Except he forgets to bill for the change orders. He hasn't made a payroll on schedule for three years.

How about your sister just advertises a contest for school kids? One of them will end up with a client and a trickle of money.

The internets - stoop labor without a hoe.
posted by warbaby 28 July | 09:05
Thanks for the answers everyone. I probably should have asked for the best way to get a minimal design for the least money, and that may be working with students (or delmoi?). I now have a lot more insight into how web designers work.
posted by agropyron 28 July | 09:44
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