You could do what I do and get your "real-life" buddies to hang out here. You often wind up getting a whole different perspective on them.

Metacult.

I'm not a big-timer here though, so I'll step aside. But I do spend rather more time than I should on another site, so I can see the question as "how much online interaction is too much", or, "what happened to all my friends, the ones who actually live a ten-minute drive away?", or something similar.

My answer, after 14 years a part of this odd world? I don't know.

Ha! That's how I got jumped in, Jon - Mats and I met in RL first as part of a book club in our neighborhood. She kept on me about this place - "you should read it, you should post!" I thought she was nutty.

But then she invited me to hear a DJ set of hers and I thought that was the coolest shit ever. And of course, started reading, etc.

This place has made me crave being a millionaire just to be able to run around and meet all of you as it is. Grah....

That's how I got Pips, TrishaLynn and Joe Famous to try the place out, and all three of them are confirmed addicts now. You're in good company.

I just wrote this in the 3pt thread:

LT, A little time away from any community works wonders for me. Imagine how happy we'll be when you return!

I can only speak for myself, but I find it refreshing to take some time away and come back. No one really notices my movements much because I tend to not make a gesture out of it, and my breaks are usually short but of a high frequency (here and elsewhere) and I'm not a high volume poster. But despite all those things I feel odd attachments at times, as well as the need to push away. You may be reaching the point of your first big plunge where you need to get out of the water for a bit. Sit in the sun for a few and come back in when you're feeling ready. You'll find your balance.

Can you loan me some of your juju with the ladies, also, though? Pips and TL are quite loverly, and JF is a fine person in his own right.

Can you loan me some of your juju with the ladies, also, though?

I wasn't even aware I had any JuJu, except perhaps for JuJuBes. And trust me, you have quite a fanbase yourself.

In the words of a dear, dear friend, "FUCK GEOGRAPHY!"

*ahem*

I have not forgotten about your Smut, btw... just have been busy/sick/etc.

As someone who has been involved with one internet community or another for 16 years, yeah, sometimes you need to take little vacations. I'm with safetyfork - don't make a big deal out of it, step back, experience 3-D life some, keep in touch with the people you really feel like you're friends with, and come back when you feel refreshed. It's totally normal.

I miss Panoptican, though.

Well, sweets, the point of things like this is enjoyment, whether from the companionship, the intellectual stimulation, the silliness, or whatever you find here. If you're not enjoying it as much, maybe a break wouldn't be a bad idea. You'll be terribly missed, of course, because you also bring a lot to this place, but ultimately it's your call. I'll keep these whuffles warm for you. Don't be too long.

Go chop down a tree or break bottles in the parking lot for a little while, eat soup, sleep late, whatever. Take a likkle break and then you'll see...

No, it's isn't that I'm not enjoying it, it's that I enjoy it too much! And I'm worried that I'm becoming LT-wallpaper here, instead of segueing Metachat into my other pursuits. As in, "who is LT when he's not online?"

It's just strange for me in a way, because you guys see me in my finest light, and I wish I could export the strength and joy this place grants me out into the wider world, instead of depending on it when RL is so fucking lame.

Just steer clear of electric cutlery, dude.

I know where you're coming from LT. I used that feeling to make changes in my real life, like switching jobs and whatnot. Maybe you need to follow that yearning.

It's too late, LT.

You've seen the movie Freaks, I assume?

(gabba, gabba)

I think as long as you don't get a MetaChat tattoo or something crazy like that, you're ok.

Ha! Get out the cheese grater...

(I love your tat, by the by)

jonmc's got a point (although when he combs his hair right you can't see it). Maybe the reason you've been drinking the kool-aid more than usual is because with everything that's been going on for you, this is a secure port in the storm. If that's the case, stick around and use the support here to make the changes you want to make.

on preview: Pips--ouch! That made me wince.

(I was kidding, the tat's badass).

As evidenced by my "I got a job" thread, this place is good for the psyche. Sometimes you need it more than others -- and sometimes you need to be there for those who are needing it.

It's a great community. Plus, there are many worse addictions in life. At least this is a place where you can hang with your friends.

It's just strange for me in a way, because you guys see me in my finest light, and I wish I could export the strength and joy this place grants me out into the wider world, instead of depending on it when RL is so fucking lame.

The thing is, I think you kind of have to assume the rest of us are the same way. I mean, we're all wonderful smart funny people, but I'd guess that if you were around, for instance, me, in real life for as much time as you spend on MeCha, I'd be almost as boring as your other "real life" pursuits, you know?

Wow, I'm being quoted now. I've arrived!

LT, whatever you decide, we love having you around, we'll miss you if you're gone, and we'll welcome you back with glee when you return. You are Teh Awesome.

I should also mention that you are personally responsible for several of the absolute bust-a-gut laughing fits that Mecha has given me. This is an honor I bestow on few.

I hear ya, LT, I totally do- taking a break can be good. I've been trying to get more of a "real life" lately now that the weather is (supposed to be!) nice- hanging out with both people I met online and "real life" buddies in some physical place- bars, theatre, etc.

I tend to have to take a couple weeks here and there off from MeCha, due to my computer issues. I find it to be refreshing, like a sorbet in between courses. Whether you take a break by choice or because you have to, it doesn't mean you love this place any less.

Par example, I will be away this weekend and will be all the better for it. I've been spending a lot a lot of time over here the past week or two.

Just got home... No ill intent about the tat, LT, truly. Many whuffles your way... Mainly, I was thinkin' of our friend, Sam, with the tatooed wedding ring (the guy with jon and HJ and JF in the "Four Stooges" photo jon posted earlier). Jon asked him once, "What happens if you get divorced, man?" And Sam said, "Get out the ol' cheese grater." He then cackled like a mad-man, which, as mentioned in the other thread, is something we all adore.

And, of course, you know Seattle's the first stop on the great jonmc/pips world tour this summer... we can make Shrinky-Dinks. : )

You can pull the bunny outta my cold dead hand.

Um, that isn't quite right, but I'm sure you understand.

I've been part of online communities since forever, but ultimately I'm not that satisfied with Internet friends because I don't feel like I know them very well. Lots of trivia, yes. Not a lot of glimpses into their souls. (Or at least not voluntarily and pleasantly.)

People being friendly and kind to each other sure has its virtues compared to places like, say, mefi, but in the end chat doesn't do it for me, either. That's why chat rooms in all their incarnations—with which I've had experience with going all the way back to 1984—have never interested me that much. Metachat is easily the one I've been most comfortable with in all these years, but I don't find it so compelling that I want to be there every night or even every week.

But I'm the kind of person to have only a very few, very close, friends.

Anyway, LT, do what makes you happy. That's the point. If MetaChat is making you happy, then enjoy it. Don't worry, be friendly. (Fooled ya.)

Not a lot of glimpses into their souls. (Or at least not voluntarily and pleasantly.)

*shudder*

(backs away slowly...)

Kmellis Stole My Soul! and now, here's Knute with Sports!

LT, you have to do what's right for you. For me tho', if you leave the light that is Metachat will be much dimmed.

*Flashes Kmelly her soul, runs away giggling*

Ah, you see, kmellis is onto something. The camaraderie that exists on sites like this is real enough, to an extent, and often translates into 'real-life' relationships. On the other hand, except for a core group of intense posters (and I'm not just talking about Metachat here, but about the social dynamics of message boards in general) the rest of the members could drift away, or stop posting, and the truth is that nobody would notice, really. It's very easy to dash off words of support and protestations of love and so on, and takes very little emotional effort-- about as much as lighting a match compared to setting off fireworks. Relationships in the physical world are a whole lot more work. Anyway, the point being here that there can be an atmosphere of caring and support on places like Metachat, but it tends towards the ephemeral, and doesn't take much to upset or unbalance. Again, I'm not talking about Metachat specifically... just that in my experience, the only online communities that really thrive are the ones which cross over into 'real-life' encounters, eventually. I spend a lot of time tending the board I admin, and trying to keep what feel like real connections with people going, but again, outside of the twenty or so most involved posters, people come and go and leave not much behind them, and are more or less forgotten. What places like this can and do provide, and do well, is intellectual fodder, like caramel popcorn of the brain, or something. And I'm certainly not going to argue with those who have found emotional nourishment here... just that in my experience in the online world, it eventually turns out to be pretty thin and tasteless. (Sorry, how many food related figures of speech is that? Oy.)

I'm just thinking out loud, anyway. If any of the above offends, please don't take it too seriously.

Every now and again I take a break from my online groups. I'm in a very large online AA group, which I'm deleting unread for now. I'd sign off it altogether except that I have a 'service commitment' on there to post a new topic once a week. I'm also on a music list that is much less busy but much more cliquey, and I'm not in the clique, so I skim the mail on there.

I feel very much a part of MeCha, although I'm a relative newbie to the group. I suppose I spend too much time in the outside world with AA people, and nobody I know in AA has an online life like mine, they don't 'get' the things I do, whereas you guys 'get' me as I 'get' you (most of the time).

I've had untold support and love from the people here, lots of laughs and some tears too. I feel as if I know many of you because of what you share. Although there's no way of knowing if what someone says online is true, I think for the most part 99.9% of what MeChatters tell about their lives is true and real. I know I'll never meet most of you, but I conisder you friends. People who don't have online lives can't understand how you can be friends with people you've never met, but some of the truest friends I've ever had (as well the best lover and the only soulmate I've ever known - the same person, btw) are people I've met online.

I think a lot of the community support and intimacy I see here on MetaChat is much better than average, and I think it's very valuable. I think it can do a lot for people. And certainly for many people, including me, the socializing done in places like this accounts for most of all the socializing they do in daily life. That's a good thing.

But it nevertheless is still somewhat thin gruel because this medium is extrememly bandwidth-limited. We'd know each other much better simply by actually talking to each other instead of what we're doing.

Even so, it still doesn't come close to actually spending time in close proximity together.

In this, the group of people for whom it's possible to meet together in the real world form a core community that is very distinct and quite certainly elite compared the rest. I do think this applies a great deal to MetaChat. It applies everywhere, but the core of MetaChat is made up of an unusually large number of people who actually see each other in person from time to time. Or often.

The intimacy and security of that group seeps into the rest of community, it helps it. But it's also more than a bit illusary as it applies to the larger group.

There's been times in the last year, especially the last six months, when I've yearned to have a heart-to-heart, intimate conversation with another metachatter. I've had off-the-wall ideas like making a post saying "Let's talk! I have unlimited long-distance—why don't I call you?!" Or even just emailing one of the few people here with whom I've exchanged some private correspondence. But in the end, I don't do these things because in my gut I feel like it's inappropriate. My intuition tells me that part of why a community like this exists is because there's a limit on how intimate it can get (and, implicitly and more importantly, that limits the interpersonal responsibilities people have to each other, too). This is why I think there's a not-oft-discussed dark side to meet-ups where people find that real-world relationships are real and that complicates in many ways those relationships as they exist online.

But who am I to talk? What do I know? Here in Albuquerque lives my closest friend from high school, and for years after, and the few times we've gotten together in the 18 months I've been back here it's been completely comfortable, just like it always was with us. But I don't call him. He's invited me over or to do things every once in awhile and I've taken him up on it, oh, three times. So I think, well, there's a friendship there, why am I not taking advantage of it?

And it's the same thing with my various relatives here, who love me a great deal and I love them, but I don't see them that often. My 12 year old cousin would love to see me much more often, and I her and her parents, but I only go over there for special events. Why? I don't know. I isolate myself.

So I'm no expert at relationships, that's for sure.

*reiterates offer to take kmellis out for coffee*

Stupid geography. Ah well.

Ah, that's sweet. :)

kmellis, I can relate to what you're saying. I am a newcomer, and I just like to bask in all the thought provoking talk I am showered with here. I like the ablility to add my two cents if I want, and I like to cruise the threads, at times without being seen. I can't find all the mental stimulation in my "real world" that I can find here, or even just the fun things. But my "real world" is so often full that I don't see those I'm closest to as often as I'd like. These "conversations" fill a void I have, yet still leave me the freedom to be with my family. I admit that I am addicted to this site, and wish to be missed if I left for a while, but that's just the pet in me nudging all of you for attention. And you, Lipstick Thespian, I look forward to reading. Don't go far!

I think the reason why I gravitated so hard towards this place is that it reminds me of the first online group I fell in love with and from which some of my strongest RL friendships were born. You can see the result of what happened when we decided to meet in person for the first time here.

And Kielle, one of the gals I met there for the first time became like an older sister to me and was there when I ended my first relationship, and was with me through other hard, trying times. Her death last year shattered me in ways I'm still recovering from, just as her life changed me in ways I'll never forget. And if it weren't for that intense online friendship that turned into a RL friendship, I don't think our paths would have ever crossed. (Damn, I'm sniffly right now because I miss her so much still. Argh. Back to my point.)

My point is that I truly value all of my online friendships and I treat them like my RL friendships in that I'm always as honest as I can be and try to maintain them as best as I can. But like RL friendships sometimes you do drift apart and sometimes you do need to take a break.

I wasn't very helpful, was I?

I was asking mysemf this question yesterday, after I found myself on MeCha for the third time in the day (and it wasn't even lunchtime yet). I feel like I spend too much time here, yet contribute so little. However, I almost never visit on weekends, spending that time in the 3-D world instead, so I guess I get that break that some of you seem to miss out on. Despite missing coming here for those two days, I think it would be bad for my addictive personality to do so every single day.

My intuition tells me that part of why a community like this exists is because there's a limit on how intimate it can get (and, implicitly and more importantly, that limits the interpersonal responsibilities people have to each other, too)
This is a very insightful statement, in that I think things can get quite intimate here, but the intimacy is quite shallow - we sometimes reveal quite personal information to each other (and god only knows how may others who watch from the sidelines), but it doesn't provide any real insight into the person behind those little tidbits. More importantly, though, is that that intimacy doesn't create any obligation on the rest of us, which is both good and bad. Compare that with intimate personal information shared with you by a person in a private conversation and there are all sorts of obligations, not the least of which is to keep the information private.

Damnit, I'm talking shit again. Shutting up now.

By the way, related to nothing but an aside in an earlier comment of mine in this thread, any bunnies that want to talk to other bunnies, or anyone, long-distance in the US for free only need a headset or other computer talking apparatus and downloading free Skype. For the rest of this year you can call any real-world phone number in the US via Skype for free.

(And that would be even more useful for any extra-US folks to talk to USA folks.)

NO, dg, you're not talking shit. The intimacy here is artificial for the most part. Sure, some people know each other, but here... everyone's "on". There's times when our internet friends seem like the coziest smartest people we know, but we only hear(see) what happens when they press the enter or return key.

kmellis.. Skype is for people who have fast internet connections, I'm sad to say. :) I hang on one forum where people are skyping around all the time; I get jealous, and do a lot of "what'd he say?!? what'd he say?"

.. some people know each other, but here... everyone's "on".
Yeah, this is kind of what I was trying to get at. It's relatively easy to be cool and hip when you can think about everything you say before you say it (and Google up a few factoids to impress while you're at it) and when you can choose exactly when and in what mood to interact with people.

Which makes it even more sad that I am totally uncool even with all those advantages. I've said it before, but I think I have spent so many years writing only business-related stuff that I find it almost impossible to write about how I feel or what I think anymore. Well, that and I'm chronically unhip to start with, which doesn't help.

I was thinkin' of our friend, Sam, with the tatooed wedding ring

Picture to prove it

How much Mecha is too much?

dude, if you have to ask...
:/

eh, do what makes you happy. Fun is fun.

It's relatively easy to be cool and hip when you can think about everything you say before you say it

Take the IRC challenge! Attempt to pass as witty, cool, and hip in real time. Or just hang around and watch the rest of us flail.

IRC is for people who camp online for periods of time (varies with the user). It's also no more "real" than any other text interaction.

Witty, cool and hip in two dimensions seems dead easy, if that's how you want to come across. There's days I wish that life had an edit function and a delete key.

Fun IS fun, but let's not make the interaction more than it is.... somewhat shallow, ephemeral, and ultimately, casual.

I'm not discounting the reality of people enjoying letting down their hair or talking about deeply personal feelings among friendly aquaintances. As trondant aptly put it: "do what makes you happy".

Reflected brings up an important point: None of us have any real connection to one another, unlike the networks we've developed from first person interaction. We all walked into this forum voluntarily and can walk away just as easily. Nothing we say here has any real or lasting concequences for anyone involved. Unless you take it up a notch and make contact and interact with someone beyond the medium, it's just text on a screen.

"On"? Not even close, what you see here is what you'd get in person.

And, for whatever it's worth, all of my socializing is done online and 95% of that is here at Metachat. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this situation (although I hope for that person(s) sake I am the only one).

I think part of it is what we talk about in advising those using online matchmaking sites. The "chemistry" we all have with each other online may not translate to the real world. We may read more into each other's written words than is really there, or construct ideas of other people that don't really map onto reality.

And while we may not be "on," exactly, when we type here, it's also unlikely that we'll be caught in a bad moment -- because we can just choose not to participate in those moments. No one here (with the exception of those I'm close to in real life) really needs to deal with all of me, bad moods and faults and crankiness and depression, whenever those strike. I may post in a bad mood asking for consolation, but if you're not in the mood to hear me whine, you can just not respond. And vice versa, obviously.

That's what (I think) people mean about there not being obligations. It's great and wonderful and really invaluable to get all the support here, and in other online venues, that we do; but I don't think it's the same as the give-and-take messiness of in-person human interaction.

Which is why, I meant to add, that it's so good to be here sometimes. It's light and fun and supportive and thoughtful and drama-free mainly because of that, I think.

Yes, but given sufficient time and commenting frequency we pretty much get a fair idea of what our online friends are really like.

The beauty of this place for me is that I find here people that I cannot anymore "meet" in everyday life. Not only due to the fact that my offline activities are very well defined (work and family) but also because the people I hang out with recreationally are of ..."the same flavor" (academics or scientists, family folk). They are all too similar, if you know what I mean. I do get to meet other interesting people here and there but I don't listen to them chat about so many diverse, provocative, fascinating or silly topics as people here. I love that. I think real life cannot beat that.

But, it can get too much, in the sense that some days I find myself glued on MetaChat rather than my work (not commenting does not imply not reading). But then I back off a little.

deborah, how very interesting. :) You know, somehow I have you mentally placed somewhere between Tofino and Eucluelet; you must be a real bush bunnie.

When I said "on", that wasn't a shortcut for "phoney". I'm sorry I was so unclear. I believe you're real, that what you tell us about what you see and think is true. I believe that intelligence, strength, and wit revealed are absolutely you. My respect.

occhiblue restated well what I was thinking, and the gap between text conversation and human intimacy is.. for the very mostest biggest part.. much wider than the gap between the chair and the screen.

This is a savvy, smart group of people; likely most are pretty much WISYWIG; there are a few ringers, just like in every crowd.

I belong to another forum; it's a diverse group that's been online together for 7 years. We know a good deal about each other, collaborate, commiserate, and occasionally even marry each other, but for the most part, even after all these years, we are still intimate strangers.

:D Well-intentioned, supportive, challenging, creative intimate strangers are wonderful people to know. That's a lot what Metachat can do, but it's just a forum and the onlything that stays constant is your self.

carmina, that's so true, about the differences here are a lot of what makes Metachat so exceptionally attractive. heh.. seductive, even.

Interesting. I too do most (not quite all, so my life is not quite as miserable as deboarah's ;-) of my socialising here and that is largely because I would never get the opportunity to hang with such a diverse range of cool people. The community here seems to be pretty much self-selecting in the sense that there is a very strong vibe that arseholes are not welcome or tolerated, even though we may all act a bit that way from time to time. While this could result in a bland collection of people who all think alike, it hasn't and I think this is due to our genesis on MeFi and that filter, by not being attractive to those who like to troll and engage in other arseholery, has left only the tolerant and easy-going without selecting on any other attribute. The final product if this filtering is a diverse group with one important shared attribute - the willingness to accept each other at face value. In some cases, this face value is somewhat manufactured in terms of the persona that people choose to present and in others it is simply what they are. Either way, a pretty fucking cool bunch of people and it is no wonder that some of us are addicted to this place.

Not quite that much of a "bush bunnie" reflecked. I'm not on the Island and I'm about 15 minutes from downtown Langley. My solitude is more circumstances (I don't work, don't go anywhere to meet people) and shyness (even when I did work and frequented places I could meet people I was, and am, too freakin' shy). I don't know that I really know how to make friends.

And I didn't really take the "on" comment for "phoney", more like "performing" which I don't know how to do (as in taking on another persona or something like that). I'd never be good at sock puppetry.

Pi actually touched on a couple points that I strongly disagree with, at least in regards to myself. I feel a real connection to the people here and it would be very difficult for me to walk away from you all. Does that mean I'm addicted? Possibly, but if hanging out with y'all is wrong, I don't wanna be right.
:^)

Here's how I feel about it, for myself: Mecha is a little bit like my neighborhood pub, which I no longer have, and that's perfect for me because I loved my neighborhood pub. This is how they are similar:

• I can just show up any old time, without making any plans, and someone I know will usually be around
• There are always old friends who are happy to see me, and it's a good place to meet new friends
• Lots of music
• Sometimes the conversation is totally silly, but sometimes we get into all sorts of fascinating discussions. People tell jokes and stories and anecdotes. Occasionally they get a little incoherent.
• I can come and go at will, without making any excuses or hurting anyone's feelings. Let freedom ring.
• It's comforting to be in a familiar place where there's support and camaraderie. There's always someone willing to give advice or help you out with a problem, and the clientele is so diverse that our skills and knowledge pretty much run the gamut.
• People are here to enjoy themselves, mostly, so the atmosphere isn't competitive, combative, strained or formal... It's just friendly.

Some of the friendships I make here (like at the pub) become quite strong; other people, I see occasionally, and that's fun, too. It's not my life, but it makes my life better and more fun. I like it because - basically, we really don't have to worry about what it means, or how real it is; it's just a place to come to hang out and see each other and chat and laugh and listen to tunes. In other words, heaven. :)

Great analogy, taz.

In response to some upthread comments, here's a contrarian point of view. I'm thinking we spend too much time fretting over how 'real' this community or that persona is or isn't. Lemme ask you, in your day-to-day life, how 'real' are your friendships with that buddy of the spouse, that guy from work, the deli clerk you chat with? How truly does your persona during these glancing interactions reflect your deepest inner nature? If you're anything like me, the answers will vary. We negotiate intimacy anew in each situation. It's not as though in real life, we're wandering around with souls bared as our deepest and most authentic selves 100% of the time. Far from it, in fact.

I am one of those who staunchly defends internet community activity against accusations that we're all just lonely people who are hiding from or can't deal with the real world. For me and many others, it's just false. I look around me and see artists, musicians, actors, writers, publishers, programmers, teachers. People with families, who see bands and go places and play bridge and raise chickens and stuff. Clearly this is a community of real people who are engaged in the world.

Why am I here? I'm verbal and I like to write and think about all sorts of topics. I like MetaFilter for information sharing, but I like MetaChat because the focus can shift a bit from pure information and ideas to the persons in the discussion.

I work at my desk most of the day, and it's a great convenient break. I can't hang much with my co-workers, because I'm a supervisor -there's no pal-ly team for me to josh around with, and I have to stay appropriate. This site lets me relax a little during the workday.

When I'm on in the evenings, it's usually because I'm working on a writing project, practicing guitar, or doing some other solitary activity at my desk. I love people, and so it's fun to sign in to IRC and converse and be connected when I would otherwise be alone. But my life isn't lonely or empty...on the contrary, it's rather too busy.

I know lots of great people, like those on MetaChat, and that's why I like to come here -- intelligent, creative, quirky people are thin on the ground in this world, and you find and enjoy them wherever and whenever you can. People like y'all do exist in the real world, and I'm fortunate to know them, but that doesn't mean I don't also want to know you.

I can also think of many, many instances where online connections do spill over into daily life. I've gotten CD mixes and surprises in the mail, met people from MeFi and gotten cool tours of their workplaces, helped someone establish an arts and culture paper, gotten offers of writing gigs and many kinds of great advice, gotten the thrill of knowing that people in really far-off-places have heard my CD, etc. In life, we create all sorts of communities and get something from them. This one's no different, and there's no need to denigrate it for some supposed lack of 'realness'. In fact, with fifteen or so years of the web under our belt, we should probably be much more comfortable with the whole idea of trans-geographic connection.

And my final point. It's often suggested that an online persona is somehow artificially 'better' than a daily life persona. I contest the idea that the seeming betterness is always artificial. It's equally true that a daily-life persona can be artificial - or artificially constrained. One beautiful thing about the web - particularly text-based sites like this - is that it sometimes allows people to project a more authentic representation of themselves than they do in daily life. Think about it. Many people are hampered by issues that might create barriers to full expression off-line. It could be confidence, appearance, social or occupational roles, financial resources, whatever. Any problem or condition in these areas may limit people's abilities to open up their complete selves in regular life. There may be wonderful parts of their personalities that are habitually suppressed, for whatever reason.

So there's an equal chance that what we get of each other here is a more real, not less real, expression of the inner nature of a person. Would that be as evident in daily life? Maybe not. But that's the beautiful thing. This is a liminal zone where people can open up a bit more. It's the equivalent of sitting around a campfire in the dark after a couple of shots of bourbon. The usual barriers can fall, and there's a safety to expression here that lets good things emerge.

I think that many of us are our best selves here, but that's almost my point. It's pretty easy to interact with people's best selves -- and it's an amazing thing to do so.

It's dealing with people's not-so-best selves, though, and having others deal with us when we're at our not-so-best, that fosters a bit of important compromise/growth/bond, I think.

I guess I'm starting to feel like online communities like this are so utterly perfect for forming intellectual bonds, but not necessarily for forming emotional bonds. I mean, I care about everyone here in a very general "I want good things to happen to you! And I'm genuinely upset when bad things happen to you!" way, but that's not the same as negotiating a face-to-face relationship with someone.

I dunno. Maybe I just haven't been around here long enough or something. My original reason for posting in this thread was just concern about the idea that this is somehow so much better than real life that interacting with real people isn't worth it anymore. My philosophy has long been that while I love humanity I'm not always too excited about most individuals, so I understand the fed-up-with-people feeling. But I think it ties into what people were talking about with staying single too long -- if you don't kinda force yourself to deal with real people with real issues and real moods and real irrationalities in a setting where you can't just step away from your keyboard or roll your eyes without them seeing and close the thread, then I think you can start to get a bit too comfortably ... something. Inflexible, maybe.

Again, not intellectually. I think this medium is superb for talking about topics, even emotional topics. But it just seems mostly brain, rather than heart.

Nobody knows me. Not my parents, not my closest friends, not my husband. Not myself.

Some people know themselves better than I do, but we all make do with what we can figure out in the meantime. And whatever I figure out about my fascinating self, I'm willing to share 30% of that with you, my public.

Actually... after an extended peirod of 30%, you may get to know me better than anyone.

concern about the idea that this is somehow so much better than real life that interacting with real people isn't worth it anymore

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Absolutely, that's a valid concern. I don't agree with that idea one little bit, either. I would hope no one's actively choosing the ease of internet conversation to the exclusion of the emotional push-pull of real life. You're right, that would be to avoid growth. That would be a bad thing.

But it just seems mostly brain, rather than heart.

But this I might argue with a bit. I'm a compassionate person, but not usually very good at expressing compassion outwardly. MeCha has actually been useful to me in teaching me some ways to give support that have translated well to daily life, helping me get over the "I just don't know what to say..." phenomenon.

And as to heart, I've been quite touched by some brave and wise and sincere words here. Maybe it's an individual thing, but I've been emotionally touched now and then, and even challenged, and even led to important realizations. I think of MeFi for the intellectual side; MetaChat, for me, is just a great forum for discussing what it is to be human.

I think of MeFi for the intellectual side; MetaChat, for me, is just a great forum for discussing what it is to be human.

And I guess I'm trying to make a distinction between "discussing what it is to be human" and "being human." Which might be splitting hairs, I suppose.

There's just a difference between someone actually sharing and experiencing my emotions with me, and someone talking about my emotions with me. That's what I'm trying to get at, with the heart/brain distinction.

I guess for me it's not a big distinction. Even in real life, I've got friends with whom I don't share a large range of my emotions, friends who I don't seek out in cranky or low moods. There are intimate friends, and not-so-intimate friends, both online and off.

I don't know, it's all on a continuum for me. Any difference between on- and off-line life is one of degree. I definitely have online-only acquaintances in their own category, but I don't think of them as less real than people I can see and touch.

Look at all of you go! What a thread this has become, out of some random, pressing thought I had. What a continuum, indeed.

I'm just here to talk to fun, smart poeple I like, and it's worked out great so far.

I don't find myself agonizing about whether they are just made-up characters or not, or whether they are only selectively importing themselves, or editing their personalities... This is just as possible with offline friends. Online, at least, you have a record of past conversations! Woo! *evil laugh* *cough*