...the devil and throw in a pinch of P.T. Barnum..."

I kind of want to continue what started as the "taint earring removal thread" and became a discussion of many things, including the fact that Gene Simmons is a master marketer.

A person who didn't come up was Marilyn Manson, (boring Wiki link, but most of the others I seem tocome up with are fan sites--blurg) someone of that same ilk. The interviews I've seen of him make me think he's a damn smart person--but that he wrecks it by (a) knowing it and (b) taking himself just way too seriously.

I do like "Beautiful People" though.

Thoughts?

I was listening to Manson long before I knew he had an 'image'. Lyrically he knew what buttons to push and he whacked 'em with a sledgehammer.

His last album, though, was a bit of a washout with its exploration of the debauchery of Weimar-era Berlin; I got it but I think it flew right over the heads of many of his American fans. The strength of that album was Manson's commitment to putting the music ahead of the image.

The real question though is can he sustain? I think his days as a headliner are numbered, but I doubt he will stay long outside the public eye.

I was never into Marilyn Manson (although I too liked "Beautiful People") but I always kind of admired him for making himself into what he is. He does come across as rather smart in the interviews I've seen and while I get annoyed with the posturing and the persona I actually feel like he doesn't take himself seriously. I think underneath it all he's amused as hell that other people take him seriously.

"I think underneath it all he's amused as hell that other people take him seriously."

He has said as much in a couple interviews. One group I have never heard Manson slam is his fans, but he does consider himself a valid target.

I think underneath it all he's amused as hell that other people take him seriously.

Yes--that's definitely closer to what I'm trying to get to.

(so on preview, ditto, mischief)

Marilyn Manson, at one time, used to pal around with Johnny Depp and Hunter Thompson (who called him "Brian" - his given name). Now *thats* a dinner party.

He also collects metal lunchboxes.

The interviews I've seen of him make me think he's a damn smart person

Thirded. He created a product that kids want to buy. I know a number of kids that see themselves reflected in him, and what is interesting about that is that "smart" is part of the package -- they know his life story: nerdy kid now sexy rock star, and for many of them it helps them understand that high school doesn't last forever - that afterward you get to remake yourself into someone else, if you have the brains and the talent and the desire. I don't see that as a bad thing.

I think he's modeled himself on Cooper more than most non-Cooper fans (can't say that I count myself as a true "fan" of either man) and Cooper seems to have stood the test of time, more or less (he's a dj now, I think).

His turn in Bowling for Columbine has stuck with me.

Same here re: Bowling for Columbine.

He also collects metal lunchboxes.

I've never known a goth who didn't, actually. I just thought it was one of their things.