Is the STD curable? Is he trying to cure it? How long is "long-term"? Months? Years? Would you be willing to wait, given these variables (curablility, length of cure, etc.)?

I'm not crazy about the 3-5% odds, mainly because it always seems to happen that I always end up in the 3-5% category somehow. You might also increase your odds of protection by using both a condom and a vaginal dam.

Also, are other means of pleasure-seeking possible without transmission? (mutual masturbation, oral, what have you)

Ouch. That's a heck of a risk to take and a tough decision. I personally would probably not risk it unless I was certain this person was someone I could not see living without. Maybe you could talk to a doctor together? Get a professional opinion on the risk and what can be done to minimize it further? (Assuming you have not already.) Also, to repeat MiHail's question: how long-term is "long-term"?

It's HPV. I can't touch him and then touch myself afterwards. Realistically, I can't touch him, period, without scrubbing and using chemicals afterward. We would have to seriously limit sexual contact, which I'm not sure I want to live with long-term since I'm very, erm, affectionate. And HPV can cause cervical cancer. I have a little girl to think about; I really want to see her graduate from high school and college and see her get married (to a man or a woman, whatever) and be old ladies together. I know this is slippery-slope thinking, but, you know, with this 3-5% deal, maybe it's not.

Well, I haven't broached the question as to which area of his nether regions it's confined to. If it's confined to the area covered by a condom, then it's 95-97%. If it's reached the base of the penis or his scrotal or anal area, we're sort of in the 100% range.

Here's a decent-looking HPV link. It says two things, which I find contradictory: (1) women often "clear" it on their own and (2) it can cause cervical cancer. I guess that means the women who aren't able to get rid of it on their own.

Best thing to prevent spread: long term monogamous relationship with appropriate protection taken by both partners.

Are you at that point in the relationship? Can you see yourself waiting for the sex part a little longer to see if this guy is "the one"? Otherwise, given your concerns about your daughter, that 3-5% looks a lot more scary.

It's hard, though, because this guy has probably been dumped before because of the HPV. Maybe ask him to be friends and see how things develop?

Sorry to be so wishy-washy in my advice...it's a tough one, for sure.

(on preview: ask him, definitely, where he's got it.)

I hate to say it but if he has a high-risk type of HPV, which it sounds like he does, I'm not sure I personally would risk it. I feel for the guy - it must be so hard for him - but unless you are absolutely certain that this is someone you want to be with for the rest of your life you'd be risking an awful lot to stay with him. You might want to find an online support group for HPV sufferers and their families. I bet this is a situation that comes up quite often and they might be able to offer you some practical advice.

I'm sorry you have to make such a tough choice. Please don't beat yourself up if you decide not to proceed with the relationship.

I know that with my luck I would definitely end up in the 3-5%, so I would run like hell. That's just the way life always fucks me over.

I've made my decision, which is no. It's been that all along, though I've wavered a little here and there because I've been asexual for so long. Logic wins the day. Thanks so much, everyone.

Getting back to the nunnery.

I have nothing to add on the HPV front, but it certainly says a lot about the guy that he's been a) taking it slow and b) so honest and up-front about his problem.

I think he likes you. :-)

(You should talk to a doctor about this - I'd actually suggest you contact your local Family Planning clinic, rather than your regular Doc - Family Planning sees way more STDs than most family docs ever do.)

I just talked to him on the phone and he informed me that he has another "prospect" in the works, so I will not worry about him one whit. One in the hand, two in the bush, I suppose. I wished him the best of luck. Next.

"...it certainly says a lot about the guy that he's been a) taking it slow and b) so honest and up-front about his problem."

Does it? We were horizontal (yet, clothed) at the time. It seems to me at this point that I've been "groomed" to eventually accept it. Calling every day to see how my day is going, the romantic dinners, all the while charming another "prospect"? Seems he has this barrier-trimming thing down. More power to the scheming bastard.

We were horizontal (yet, clothed) at the time. It seems to me at this point that I've been "groomed" to eventually accept it. Calling every day to see how my day is going, the romantic dinners, all the while charming another "prospect"?

Eesh. Yeah, it sounds like you got out just in the nick of time.

What the 3-5% wouldn't get me, intuition does. Thank you, sweet brain.

I'm not trying to say you made the wrong decision in this case, but you do know that like everyone has HPV, right? The next guy you fuck probably has it, too, and he likely doesn't know. Every single girl I know has had the abnormal pap + colposcopy + LEEP + good paps after business: the sluts and rarely nailed alike. There is no real test for guys. Really, if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it. It's not herpes or anything.

Well, IMHO, the real test for guys is the phone call you make talking about this shit. If he brings up "prospects," he's fucking out regardless.

Like I said, I don't think you made the wrong decision in this case.

Namaste, girlfriend.

Millie, sounds like something my exratbastard would do. I knew he was having an affair because he is emotionally incapable of being alone. Got rid of me, married her 5 months later.

What I did wrong: didn't listen to my intuition that the guy was a master manipulator.

I wouldn't waste one more neuron thinking about this guy and his "prospects." The fact that he even told you that speaks volumes.

Yeah, the prospects thing -- Carolyn Hax would have a field day.

Did you ever consider the possiblity that some men would rather be villified than pitied on their way out of a relationship.

This would only reinforce my would-be "men are shit" theory I try to console myself with from time to time, but I remain an idealist, and the fact is that there are a lot of really great men out there looking for someone like me. I deserve one of "those"; I have a great deal to offer, and eventually my bejeweled booty will find its rightful pirate.

Thanks, y'all out there, for helping me through a really fucked-up night. Now I'm off to an evening of cold medicine (therapeutic, not recreational) and Rumble Fish. Santa Sangre, if I can stay up that long. I kinda doubt it at this point.

MeCha rocks.

Gah...some men suck. I'm sending you some serious "you go girl" vibes, Millie. Let him go off with someone else...they'll find out what an ass he is soon enough. You deserve better.

Thanks, Al. I try to be a tough cookie, god knows, but *snif*, dammit. You know, sometimes life dangles that big ol' carrot... "You can have what you're looking for!"..."But it'll cost you what you're really looking for!" Mwahahahhahah!

What a jokester, that god. Yeah, I get the punchline, and it's patience. Are you fucking Sarah Silverman or what.

Good (so far) book (I picked it up mainly because I hate with a deep hatred things like "He's just not that into you" and Cosmo-type advice like "let him see your thong lying around! He'll know you're ready to par-tay!"):

"You're not that into HIM either"

It is a bit psychobabble-ish but it has some good points: Mainly that if women raise their standards (i.e. give up the "I must marry before I'm thirty or die" mentality) then men will be forced to behave better.

Reclaim your personal power, and all that. (yes, I'm sick of that phrase too.)

Getting back to the nunnery

How about that trip to Heidi Fleiss's sistel in Nevada?

I don't understand why him having "prospects" is objectionable given that after two months you haven't had sex. That being the case, if I were in his place, I wouldn't assume a monogymous relationship yet. And I'd expect you to have prospects, too. And this seems to me like a long time to date without sex; which makes me think that neither of you was ever that gung-ho.

But as for HPV, as Dame says it's extremely common. As someone else implied above, his disclosure to you may well be a virtue, not a vice. In contrast, a) many men will have it but not know it, and b) won't tell you if they do have it. So with regard to this as a deal-breaker, you may be walking away from "the one" and yet find yourself later with someone else who has HPV. And didn't tell you. Or didn't know.

So it seems to me that it comes down to what it always eventually comes down to at the beginning of relationship: you either know you want to be with them, or you don't. I think that's should be your biggest consideration.

kmellis, the reason why HPV-boy was taking things slowly was because of the HPV. And he's not a hero (necessarily) for disclosing his decision; it's something ANY responsible person should do.

And "the one" does not tell you he has "prospects". "The one" tells you that YOU are "the one" for HIM, too.

I wished him the best of luck. Next.

*shuffles hopefully as the line moves forward*

Keith. He strung me along. He has warts on his dick. Big Warts he could give to me. Forever. And cancer.

Yes, coming from the Eastern New Mexico School of Dating, stringing along a stable of prospective women who might want to eventually take on your respective disability/infirmity regardless of the stats might make sense, mathematically or emotionally, to you. To me, on the receiving end, it most emphatically does not.

Calling someone each night, having had that "exclusivity" conversation, which we did, might preclude one cultivating "prospects." I assumed this was so, but according to you, a big ol' whoopsy is in order on my part.

Jesus, of all people, I thought you might have known better.

I don't understand why him having "prospects" is objectionable given that after two months you haven't had sex

I'm not sure I understand what you're driving at here. Are you saying that because they hadn't had sex after eight weeks of dating she should have automatically assumed that he was lining up other women? It's not as if she was holding out on him or anything. As he said in her first posts, HE was the one who was taking things slowly because of his STD. And honestly, if you already have one STD, maybe lining up a bunch of different potential partners at once is not the wisest idea.

And this seems to me like a long time to date without sex;

Well, not if you are drawing things out because you aren't ready to tell your partner about your STD.

But as for HPV, as Dame says it's extremely common.

Yes, HPV is common. But there are around thirty different strains of HPV that are considered sexually transmittable and some are higher risk than others. High risk HPV is nothing to sneeze at and can cause some pretty serious complications, especially in women. Just becuase lots of people have it doesn't mean it's a wise idea to deliberately expose yourself to it.

It is a bit psychobabble-ish but it has some good points: Mainly that if women raise their standards (i.e. give up the "I must marry before I'm thirty or die" mentality) then men will be forced to behave better.

Comedy gold, that there.

Calling someone each night, having had that "exclusivity" conversation, which we did, might preclude one cultivating "prospects." I assumed this was so, but according to you, a big ol' whoopsy is in order on my part.

And for the second damn time, everything you've described thus far suggests he was probably lying about the "prospects" in order to save face, but believe what you will.

And for the second damn time, everything you've described thus far suggests he was probably lying about the "prospects" in order to save face, but believe what you will.

That's a fair point. He very well could have been trying to save face if he told her that after she rejected him. Not the nicest or most mature attitude in the world but understandable given the circumstances.

Did he mention the "prospect" before or after you broke things off with him? If it was after, he may just have been trying to maintain some dignity, not trying to hurt you. Admittedly, not the most mature way to proceed, but still a possibility.

Also, it is very rare for HPV to cause cervical cancer. But because, as kmellis and dame have said, men aren't generally tested for HPV, you should always have regular paps which will detect any abnormals cells.

On preview, what drpynchon said.

Well, when I made the offer to "still be friends," he asked if it would be okay to invite his new girlfriend.

Stymied, I said, "Sure."

Quonsar, you're my only hope. *collapses in niceness which will transform into self-loathing cancer as sure as boyfriend's new gal's vagina will sprout mushroom-like warts*

The "prospect" thing was after I said no.

attn ladies: im totally clean


let the fucking begin

Moral of the story: Don't fuck anybody.

I don't like that moral :(

I don't think I like that moral...

Yes, coming from the Eastern New Mexico School of Dating, stringing along a stable of prospective women who might want to eventually take on your respective disability/infirmity regardless of the stats might make sense, mathematically or emotionally, to you. To me, on the receiving end, it most emphatically does not.

Oh, please. That was very much uncalled for, particularly your allusion to my disability. Anyway, I didn't know this:

...having had that "exclusivity" conversation, which we did, might preclude one cultivating "prospects."

...which makes it clear cut that he shouldn't have been seeing anyone else. But maybe he's lying to save face.

I thought HPV could be basically invisible? That and how common it's supposed to be is what I was basing my "it shouldn't be a deal-breaker with 'the one'" on.

Anyway, I really get the impression that this is what you wanted to do, regardless. But I understand that it sucks. A couple of months ago I had to tell Paula—you know who I'm talking about—that there really wasn't any hope for a serious relationship. It's so hard to meet people, I wasn't too happy to tell someone I wasn't interested. Not to mention that she really needs someone on her side, anyway, her whole family treats her like crap.

km, I truly wasn't focusing on what you think I was focusing on... The language, I understand now, appeared to apply to you, but it really wasn't meant to. I apologize. I was kind of calling upon your wisdom in a roundabout way. I'm sorry you took it the other way. (Aside: Paula? Two weeks ago, really? Damn... And come to think of it, why not?)

Anyway, my point was that the universe sometimes dangles a "you can have this, or you can have that." And that choice ultimately defines you from that point in time on. This choice has, again, defined me, at least temporarily, I hope, and I guess I leave the rest up to... IT. Blue pill?

"I apologize."

Accepted, forgiven, and forgotten. And I apologize for what I didn't intend tp be, but nevertheless were some insensitive and insulting things in my first comment.

"(Aside: Paula? Two weeks ago, really? Damn... And come to think of it, why not?)"

Two months, rather. And, since I've brought it up, I'll confess that I behaved terribly. She'd been here a couple of times since the Spring; but the second time in July really drove home to me that this wasn't going to work as a serious relationship, which she obviously wanted. But I couldn't bear to tell her. I just suddenly stopped answering her phone calls. It is one of the most cowardly things I've done in my entire life.

Anyway, why? Well, after we had finished talking about old times—something that did actually take up a good number of hours—I found that we had absolutely nothing to talk about. She's still reasonably attractive, too, but the sex didn't work for me, either—I just wasn't very interested. I basically wasn't attracted to her at all, but didn't really face up to that fact.

I mean, damn, did you know that when I was about 8 or 9, I lived in the house that Miles lived in during high school? Well, Paula's granparents are two houses down. I played occasionally with the three girls. I don't remember it that well, but Paula sure does. The way she tells it, she fell in love with me then. And then I guess I didn't realize how hard she tried to get my attention my senior year. So, anyway, me and her getting back in touch was an opportunity for her to create this whole romantic narrative about childhood love and stuff. And her life is crap.

So, anyway, I just didn't want to tell her I wasn't interested. I had some hopes, too. As you're maybe feeling tonight, at our age you don't really want to take for granted that someone is interested. It's so hard to meet people. But I finally called her in September. I'm very unhappy with myself for being such a coward, though. And Paula being Paula, when I did call her, tell her I wasn't interested in a serious relationship and that I was very, very sorry that I was so cowardly not to talk to her and tell her before then...her response was "Oh, that's okay, don't apologize."

It was like kicking a puppy.

HPV is really fucking hard. According to the wiki, approx 80% of sexually active adults have it. Which is about what my dr. told me when I got diagnosed with it. And really, most ppl posting here have it. Even if it's not diagnosed yet, or recognisable by warts ... they still have it. And it's not a big deal to me (apart from cancer, and believe me, I can get into a whole thread on LEEPs and disrupted fertility and other things).

I don't even know what I'm trying to say here. I often try to destigmatize HPV, but dude, it's your body. Go with what you feel. But kudos to the guy for telling you.

postmodernmille: If the guy had genital warts, that means he had HPV 6 or 11. Those strains don't cause cancer, pretty much ever.

Anyway, unless you are a virgin you've probably already been exposed to HPV and should be getting pap smears regularly. Almost everyone who is sexually active has been infected by HPV. I think the numbers are like 75-85% infection rate: and that number includes people who have never had sex with anyone except their spouse, so the rate among the more general sexually active populace is even higher.

I'm not saying you made the wrong decision. But HPV is just a fact of life that sexually active people have to deal with. It's kind of like the Epstein-Barr virus. EBV isn't a good thing by any means but virtually everyone who doesn't live in a bubble gets exposed to it.

HPV: not a good thing. But anyone (including postmodernmille) who is sexually active is likely going to get it sooner or later and needs to be prepared for that.

Thanks, gaspode, but I've been tested recently, I don't have it, I don't want it, and now I sure as hell don't want him. Kudos to the guy for working it. The cojones! Wart Guy es mas macho.

kme, re Paula, I am just shaking my head... that's either tragic or funny. I can't decide which, just now.

Thx for giving me a pass; it was the Robitussin talking...

Thanks, justinian, but I haven't been sexually active in quite some time, and they'll have to pry my HPV- status from my cold, dead hands.

Life used to be a lot more fun.

millie, I applaud your self respect. Looking after yourself and honoring yourself are really hard to do, especially for most women. Regardless of whether the guy was lying or saving face or whatever it is, the fact that you listened to your guts and decided what was best for YOU, period, is a damn good thing. I don't think that someone who honors themself first would deliberately stomp on someone else.

I think the only bar that needs to be raised in the dating arena is just that one - honesty with yourself and communicating it respectfully - both of which are not the easiest things to do well, especially with emotional noise raging. In my experience, it was not meeting people that was hard - it was figuring out if they were worth the time to get to know. And with time splintered between work, home, raising a child (for some), and everything else, it doesn't leave a lot. And in reality, it's not only evaluating the partner, but also your own flexibility and margins. So you're examining two people, not one.

I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe all this is a no brainer for y'all, I don't know. Bottom line is, cheers on honoring the voice inside.

Thank you very much, yoga. The two years since the divorce (and the divorce itself) have been all about what I am willing to accept in my life and what I am not willing to accept. It's been a long, hard road, but totally worth it. I might end up alone, ultimately, but at least I'll know that I maintained some semblance of integrity.

And from now on, I am a lesbian.

You're right - it *is* totally worth it. re: the lesbian gig, I can tell you that we never argue about whether the seat is up, and we nod knowingly over PMS. ;D

Lesbians!

DaShiv.... put the camera down.....

LOL!