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17 November 2005

Have you ever declined a job offer because they want you to wear a tie every day?

→[More:]It feels like the exact opposite direction that I want to go. As a tech at various companies and educational institutions, including University of California I've never had to wear anything even remotely resembling a monkey suit except for the initial interview.

Tie. Slacks. Shirt. Day in and day out.

They aren't offering me all that much money for the area and the skillset required. (10.50-11.50/hr)

It's not full time but it's close enough to it, 5 days a week, odd evening hours. It's pretty far commute. (About an hour by bus.)

I. Hate. Ties. I don't think I can adequetly describe in mere words how deep my loathing is for these foppish nooses of the status quo.

Should I take the job and then sue them for discrimination because the female employees don't have to wear ties? (Sure, I'll wear heels and a skirt if it helps drive home how stupid ties are.)

Have you ever refused a job you were qualified and *cough* suited for because of something apparently inconsequential to most, but very, very important to yourself?

(Bonus question: Have you ever declined a job because they required a piss test, whether you were sober or not, based on personal convictions about privacy, basic human dignity or what have you?)

post by: loquacious at: 19:46 | 29 comments

Being a girlie I don't have the tie problem, but I have refused jobs where they expect me to wear a dress.

My personal opinion is that what I'm wearing has absolutely zero impact on how well I do my job. If you're in a professional setting where you're required to meet with clients, it's of course a good idea to convey professionalism to them (and sloppy dress would, for most people, negate that).

That can be done without a tie or a skirt, though. Those rules are stupid, and I avoid places that implement them, on principle.

posted by mudpuppie 17 November | 19:55

I have never turned down a job because I had to wear a tie, even after spending 5 years working in a job where (supplied) polos were the norm and currently being back on the tie thing. Actually, I don't have to wear a tie, but I do. Dress for the job you want, not the job you have etc. I hate hate hate ties, but I want more money. To counteract it, I recently declared every Friday polo shirt day and make a point of never setting appointments with clients on Fridays.

I would refuse a job that required a urine test, however. Unless, of course it was some high-security or incredibly dangerous job, neither of which I am likely to be offered or interested in.

Would they really enforce the tie thing? Could you wear a tie to work and then take it off? Alternatively, is it worth wearing a tie just for the time you are in the office? You can put it on when you arrive, take it off at lunchtime etc. Comes down to how much you want the job, really.

posted by dg 17 November | 19:57

I've never worked anywhere that required that kind of dress all the time, but I did end up working for a accounting company that bought out the small mac consulting company I'd been working for. They looked askance at my long hair and ear ring and made noises about my changing those things.

I didn't make any changes, but that did make a small contribution to the whole ball of bullshit that got me to quit before very long (along with a few others).

Personally, I wouldn't even consider a tie and suit all the time work environment. Slacks and an oxford, fine, but no more than that.

posted by ursus_comiter 17 November | 19:59

I once had to wear a tie for a job. And it was a "tulip tie", because I was a girl. I was not allowed to wear a men's tie, which irked me no end. But I never considered suing them for descrimination because they would have made my life miserable. I was 21, working as a concierge, and making $7/hour. So what did I care.

However, for ten years, I refused to work in a place that would not let me have a shaved head. And when it became an issue at one place I worked (where everyone dressed very formally), I very politely made a fuss about the fact that two men in the office had shaved heads and were not asked to grow out their hair, and refused to change. (Oooh man I was livid.) I did take out my nose ring, though, because it had nothing to do with my gender.

I have flatly refused to take drug tests for anyone.

posted by Specklet 17 November | 20:00

I was once the rebel against ties and piss tests, and I strongly urge you all to follow your convictions.

However, now I am in a position where I want to wear a suit and tie, not a sportcoat and slacks but an actual suit. Why? Cuz my cardiologist said I can no longer perform any kind of manual labor for an employer. How best to hammer that point home with the least resistance? By being a suit.

posted by mischief 17 November | 20:19

Maybe you could wear a clip-on bowtie?

posted by interrobang 17 November | 20:27

(That's what 10.50 an hour is worth, really.)

posted by interrobang 17 November | 20:28

No. I took a drug test (the kind where they cut a chunk of your hair) and wore a tie (I'm a woman) for $6.50 an hour in college, when I was an assistant manager at a Blockbuster Video. But maybe I'm just a sucker.

posted by amro 17 November | 20:33

Depends on how badly you need the money. If you need it really bad, take the job, wear the tie, pee in the cup, and as soon as you can quit, do so.

posted by mygothlaundry 17 November | 20:41

No ties for me, thank you. Ties as a requirement shows me that the culture of the company isn't anywhere remotely near what I need in order to be productive.

They probably have rules about the cover sheets for TPS reports, too.

Run, not walk, as fast as you can away from this job.

posted by mr_crash_davis 17 November | 20:52

It sounds like you don't really want the job anyway. If you don't want it (and you're not really hurting for it), don't take it.

However, if you go through with it, is it any consolation that (certain) ties are damn hot? Also, you could pretend to be a mod!

posted by Uncle Glendinning 17 November | 20:57

If you do take it, get good ties. Sometimes they have them in supermarkets or dollar stores this time of year - as an evil ex-wife, I encouraged my small daughter to pick some extra special ones out for her dad's birthday and father's day: ties with huge dollar bills on them and big dice and fish and semi naked ladies and stuff. It is possible to fully rock the tie thing. ≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by mygothlaundry 17 November | 21:12

The Elvis Costello look rocks.

posted by Smart Dalek 17 November | 21:15

The Elvis Costello look rocks.
oooo. 2nded.

posted by Uncle Glendinning 17 November | 21:30

I, for one, would like to see a return to the days when men wore suits and ties regularly. Also fedoras and proper overcoats. Goddamn sexy, I tell you!

Back in the 70s, my dad worked for a bank. They adopted a "no facial hair" policy (damn dirty hippies!) and told my dad he had to shave his beard. After a few days of fighting about it, Dad showed up to work cleanly shaven--on only the right side of his face. "It's a compromise," he said.

posted by jrossi4r 17 November | 21:46

jrossi4r: a) I concur re: a sexy suit and b) awesome story!

posted by amro 17 November | 21:48

I worked at a bank, and quit when they told me I needed to wear "nicer shoes."

Fuck that!

posted by Quartermass 17 November | 22:01

I never had a good job that I had a bad feeling about.

posted by warbaby 17 November | 22:05

I worked at IBM for a while about 15 years ago and had my fill of white-shirt-and-a-tie. One day I wore a peach-colored shirt to the office and was informed that I was lucky that times had changed at Big Blue because a few years earlier and I would have been sent home to change. "Scratch a blue shirt and you'll find a white one underneath" was the expression.

I did actually walk out on a job interview one time a few years ago when the guy who was interviewing me started talking about how everyone had to dress "up" (meaning fashion consciousness, not just suit-and-tie) and go out of their way to "look good". Maybe that was appropriate for salespeople, but not the in-house IT staff.

posted by briank 17 November | 22:05

I can't imagine dress requirements ever making it anywhere near the top of my list of "things I hate about working". I mean, does it really matter what you're wearing while you sit there for 8 hours a day interacting with people you'd normally cross the road to avoid and having some idiot tell you what to do all the time?

posted by nomis 17 November | 23:12

Thanks for the good points, both pro and con.

At this point I don't think I really have any choice but to take the job. I need the money. I haven't been able to drum up enough independent graphic design and/or tech support work to survive. Worst case scenario I hate the job, rack up a few paychecks and quit early and don't get to add it to my resume.

I think the thing that irritates me the most is phrases like "Oh, well, this is the education industry." and "Well, this is generally what you'd find as a dress code for the area." Uh, bullshit. Hi, look at my resume, there's 5+ years of "educational industry" experience there. I worked at much more prestigiouz educational institutions, for fuck's sake, we're talking one of the top 3 MBA programs in the US, and t-shirts and shorts were practically mandatory. And I honestly haven't seen that much more mandatory "dressing up" in this area than, say, compared to cut-throat Los Angeles.

That and this mandatory dress code thing wasn't even communicated or mentioned until I dragged it out of them.

Does not bode well, but I'll give it a shot.

posted by loquacious 17 November | 23:50

Good luck with it loq. Sorry if I sounded like a snarky prick above. It's just that I really do hate working! But one day I'll find my niche in the working world.

posted by nomis 18 November | 00:04

Loq:

Accept the job. Do a kick-ass job. Dress however you want after week two. If they give you shit, sue them.

The end.

posted by mudpuppie 18 November | 00:13

Follow MGL's advice and get some nice Hawaiian-print ties and such. I've known more than a few people who did that to protest against being forced to wear a piece of decoration.

posted by BoringPostcards 18 November | 00:43

I worked in a small office (5 ladies and three guys) where ties were the rule. We showed up with ties in the morning, but started losing them earlier and earlier. My boss was gradually overruled as the other guy and I just stopped wearing ties. We "forgot" them at first, and then just blatantly didn't wear them. They needed us more than we needed them (but the money was good) so we got away with it. YMMV.

posted by Eideteker 18 November | 01:30

I think dress codes are super lame. I'd never base my decision to take a job on that, though.

But in my experience, dress codes like this often fall into one of two camps. Some crap jobs require a tie to make it seem like the job is not a crap one. Retail is a prime example of this.

Other places require ties because they are a legitimate culture of ties (lawyers, bankers, etc.) So which camp does this job fall in?

Ties without suits, to me, almost always seem to fall into the "crappy job trying to put on heirs" camp to me. Today, it seems there are three camps about dress code: anything goes, business casual, and full-blown formal suits and ties.

Slacks and ties seem to inhabit an unpleasant no-man's land.

I like wearing a suit and tie, though.

posted by teece 18 November | 02:22

Have you ever declined a job offer because they want you to wear a tie every day?

That's just fucking stupid.

posted by stavrosthewonderchicken 18 November | 07:33

I don't understand why employers or employees get so hung up on the dress code thing. I'm job hunting now and if my dream job comes up then I'll happily go to work dressed as a chicken if that's what their stupid policy is.

The thing is though, companies that do insist on a dress code are a) not likely to be on my list of dream jobs and b) aren't likely to want someone like me. So I guess it's all academic.

loq - It sounds like you don't have much to lose, and that your expectations are pretty low already but maybe you should take the job but keep looking anyway.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 November | 08:08

I believe that the only dress code a company needs is to require that their employees "dress professionally" and then to reward people who consistently do so with promotions and raises. Requiring specific clothing items just gets you into trouble.

The only time I was ever asked to take a urine test was when I was in a temp job and they wanted me to go perm. I refused because the urine test was a brand-new requirement for this company, and I had been working for them via the temp agency for 3 or 4 months, so they knew me, or should have. However, I was able to refuse and remain working there as a temp. I'm not sure how I would react in a situation where I really need the job.

posted by JanetLand 18 November | 10:19

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