Love that show.

Here at Casa Cel Mc we've been working through the DVD's. We're up to the point of the arrivel of Det. Mike Kellerman. One recurring observation we make is that Lt. Al Giardello is probably the cooles authority figure in TV history. It's also incredibly cool to see a black man fling Sicilian curses at people.

I also fondly remember the scene where Det. Crosetti begins stripping off his clothes to show Giardello his bullet wounds. It shows that a hero cop isn't neccessarily a dashing Rambo figure but often a fat balding Dad type in Montgomery Ward boxer shorts.

I also think racism played a part in the shows poor ratings. It featured 3 complex, fully human black characters in Pembleton, Lewis and Giardello, but it wasn't a "black show." And the aforementioned characters were not racial representatives but fully drawn human beings, and I don't think audiences knew what to make of that.

Plus the charcters weren't glamorous. they were fat, balding and dressed unfashionably and didn't act "cool."

These were pluses to me, but minuses to a lot of the veiwing public somehow.

that was a good one, too bad that the dvd box sets are incredibly expensive

Netflix has 'em. We're renting our way through.

Loved Homicide. Loved it. I think I have the Daniel Simon book it was based on around here somewhere. If you ever get the chance to pick up the excellent documentary "Anatomy of a Homicide", do so.

David Simon book. David Simon.

LeeJay, when me and mrs mc made a day trip to Bawlmer a few years back, we made a point of taking pictures in front of the building used as the "squadroom," and having a few pops at the Waterfront bar.

I'm also extremely proud that me and Richard Belzer share a birthplace.

I have the David Simon book as well, it's great. I also have two volumes of the ill-fated "novelizations," a la Star Trek, and a copy of the audiobook of Simon's tome, read by none other than Reed Diamond aka Det. Mike Kellerman.

I'm more an Orbach-era Law and Order guy myself, but I did enjoy Homicide's L&O tie-ins. Maybe I should give the full series a whirl.

One possible reason the show never caught on like wildfire was that it was set in Baltimore (= boring?). I think it also suffered from the fact that it made its debut at a time of bad signal:noise, with a lot of other cop shows around.

Gotta love Munch and Pembleton - two classic characters, well performed.

Baltimore (= boring?)

Hush yo mouth!

actually putting it in a city other than NYC or LA made it more interesting, IMHO. Cool new local color to soak up.

I think part of the reason it didn't do so well was because viewers used to cop shows like Law and Order were used to a specific formula according to which, for good or for bad, the storyline was wrapped up at the end of the hour. Homicide was a character driven show where most police/legal dramas are story driven shows. That's not to say that other cop shows don't have compelling characters, but Homicide was a different animal altogether.

actually putting it in a city other than NYC or LA made it more interesting, IMHO. Cool new local color to soak up.

Oh, I agree. I'm just wondering if the average prime time viewer feels the same way.

Homicide (book, movie and teevee show), The Corner (book and miniseries), Clockers (book and movie), The Wire, David Simon, Richard Belzer (comedian, actor, writer and talk-show host), Richard Price, George Pelecanos, even Raphael Alvarez and Dennis Lehane--I love 'em all.

I don't think we share a lot of musical tastes, Jon, but we seem to have quite a few others in common.

Also--I agree about the local color thing, but, like it or not, it seems like people perceive Baltimore, as opposed to Miami or Las Vegas or NYC or something, to be kind of gray.

Ah they took up all the parking in my neighborhood. I lived in Highlandtown, next neighborhood over from Fells Point when they were filming Homicide. Bah TV crews. And Baltimore, while it has many, many faults, is not gray.

I don't think we share a lot of musical tastes, Jon, but we seem to have quite a few others in common.

I think if people listen to eachother enough they always find places where their tastes intersect. That's what's cool about meeting folks.

You'd probably enjoy an author named Michael Raliegh, based out of chicago. he's a bit pulpy, but it's pulp of a high order.

On my visit to Bawlmer, it didn't seem gray at all. It had a near perfect balance of boho, yuppie, ghetto and meathead aesthetic.

Don't get me wrong--I rather like Baltimore myself (I like, among other things, Hollertronix, Homicide, crabs, the old Orioles logo, the aquarium and the accent. Not so crazy about John Waters though), but that's partly because I see it as a very underrated city (like Pittsburgh, or Cleveland, or, for that matter, quite a few other postindustrial Rust Belt kinda places).

It still seems, though, that Baltimore, in the popular imagination or conventional opinion or whatnot, isn't a very exciting city. NYC, Los Angeles, the various CSI locations--those are the kinds of places that a mass television audience wants to see in cop-show form.

(Also, Jon, have you read Eugene Izzi? He's another Chicago-based crime writer that I've enjoyed lately. Not artsy, particularly, but good genre writing. And I'm at work today, so I'ma go pick up one of Raleigh's books right now.)

He's another Chicago-based crime writer

The only problem with Baltimore (I mean, besides the unbelievably shitty schools and the terrifying crime rate) is the surprising lack of a good local music scene. There really isn't much of one; 5 years ago I moved to Asheville, a city that's about a third the size of Baltimore and couldn't believe how much great music there was here, every night, and cheap too. I think the problem with Bawlmer music is that it's just too close to NY and DC, and the bands go there instead.

Don't know him, box, but I'll keep my eyes peeled.

For the record, John Waters has made two cameos on Homicide, one a gutbusting treatise on the realtive merits of NYC vs. Bawlmer that also features Chris Noth as Mike Logan (screw Mr. Big, he'll always be Mike Logan to me).

'Boomtown' was very cool but it got canceled after one season

It was my favourite show when it was on. No other show (at the time, anyway) maintained such a consistently high quality level, or had so many characters who were so well-realized and developed.

The episode with Vincent D'Onofrio as the type A asshole who ends up helping the detectives basically solve his own murder in the subway is still one of the most powerful pieces of fiction I have ever seen - it's very rare to see something that emotionally complex and completely unflinching.

That episode was tremendous, biscotti. I still think about it everytime I ride the subway.

awesome D'Onofrio trivia: he played the same character in two different films (JFK and Malcolm X), an eyewitness to JFK's murder

I loved that show, loved it, although like I said in that MeTa thread, it wasn't as exciting once Pembleton left. It wasn't just that though, it began to seem a lot more like a formulaic cop show. Not anything like Law and Order but still. I remember an episode near the end of the run about some crazy Internet-cyber serial killer. Probably the worst homicide episode ever. It seemed like the show just lost it's edge.

On the other hand, the earlier shows were a lot more avant-garde, with all kinds of crazy camera angles and repeated shots, which (while I thought were cool) might have put off some viewers. I don't think Racism had too much to do with the cancellation of the show, but it was very intellectual and artistic, maybe too much for the average TV watcher.

Oh yeah, munch is still on NBC, he's on Law & Order: Special Victim's Unit, which is a pretty bland cop show, (unlike Law & Order: Criminal Intent Which is a bland cop show ON ACID, (and Vincent D'Onofrio is one of the detectives, btw))

He also made a cameo appearance on the X-Files.

Funny. I haven't even ever seen this show (though I have caught some "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit" over here), yet still found this thread fascinating.

I loved Homicide. It was less about cops and robbers and more about morality and how we make our choices in life and how we come to terms with the consequences of our choices. It always reminded me more of high school theology and college philosophy classes than a police drama. It was also one of the few catholic TV shows. The folks in it reminded me a lot of my Irish background and Catholic education. Not at all like the rabid dog whack-job nut case Mel Gibson version of Catholicism.

I loved the L&O crossovers for the Munch/Brisko interplay.

Munch and Pembleton stand out as one of TV’s greatest examinations of the dynamics of a caring couple with major differences of opinion.

Giardello is a great leader along with Col. Potter from MASH and Jean Luc Picard of ST TNG.

I loved that show so much. I'm really disappointed that the actors (Kyle Secor, Andre Braugher, Melissa Leo,etc.) dont get more work. I found every one of them absolutely hypnotic.