MetaChat - Sometimes MetaChat Makes Me Sad

actually it's a lot like what i was going to say except i just wasn't going to say it.
meef dislikes discussion and tangents and things discussed in less that super anal apergerlike remove. and i thought metachat was for what we liked but especially what meef did not appreciate.
but i hate the we
the us
the fact anyone stumbling in can suddenly declare we are anything when "do i know you?"
i didn't know if i'd stay or go but it is pretty obviously i'm at best "redundant" here to the bulk of the users, which is probably the saddest part for me, because it shows how much was lost in translation

posted by ethylene 18 October | 00:23

And I've been extra double cranky lately for lots of boring reasons that aren't you people's problems

well, they ARE our problems, too, because we are a family

*hugs dame*

posted by matteo 18 October | 00:31

i hate more the way peope on meef will suck up or beg mercy by calling everyone "geniuses" and the "smartest people" or any group lumping, because why would i need to type anything if i was already part of the general jist?
i'm not very active there, and for a while i couldn't even be here, but the aspects here people give grief about there isn't pulled out of thin air.
there are times i'd really like to have a discussion but feel it inappropo--
but then that's what stopped me from being a good monkey, that you couldn't really have a real discussion without someone entitledly derailing it all to hell. that way was their way, or how they were then. i like the monkeys, but if that's what i wanted, i'd spend more time there.
i thought i was here and active enough in the beinging to be part of the shaping and forming, but i apparently i was wrong

posted by ethylene 18 October | 00:38

Personally, I get bothered when people try to "define" metachat as anything other then a place where people (from metafilter) could chat idly without worrying about getting their comments deleted.

I think mecha ends up being a nice place because idle chatter is generally pleasant, but at the same time I can see the desire for people to have a respite from all the vitriol that files back and forth on metafilter these days, which metachat provides.

But still, I think ultimately the site should be simply a place to 'chat' about whatever you want. No pressure to be "the best of the web."

posted by delmoi 18 October | 00:42

who is meef?

posted by delmoi 18 October | 00:43

I'm even going to drop the courtesy, subtext, and text search ability of my "less than traditonal expression" so you all cease to have that as an excuse to use to discount me to be beneath your valuble viewing pleasure.
I've never instigated vitrol and have done what I could to mitigate it. If not, then I have been even more remiss that I had hoped.

I, still, am quite fond of many of you, to an extreme in some cases, and joined for that reason. But as I've stated, I'm fine with no longer posting to maintain the what integrity is wanted.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 00:50

I guess I just feel like it's being defined by default, as much as by what people say. I wonder if people realize that and the implications and are okay with it. I think.

posted by dame 18 October | 00:51

(I am of the belief that typos are not yet frowned upon.)

posted by ethylene 18 October | 00:52

I know some people find this place to be a respite from the constant bickering of the Other Place.

I really think this is key. Leave the Mefi bickering at Mefi.

However, if you want to bicker about Mecha stuff I think that's OK. I love to see discussion here. (see my latest post) Of course I am not a huge participant in the family so I'm not sure that means alot.

bicker is a funny sounding word

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 01:03

ethylene, it's not that we (maybe I shouldn't speak for everyone) I don't like or appreciate you, it's just that you're hard to follow most of the time. The combination of allusions, typos, unfamiliar slang and your stream of consciousness writing style leads to a general feeling like I'm missing part of what you're saying. I can't respond to what I don't comprehend -- or, at least, I can't respond in a way that will not sound either dismissive or clueless. I just don't understand you, which is not the same as discounting or disliking you.

dame, I think the point of the "defining" threads from yesterday was to point MetaChat in the direction of independence from its MetaFilter roots. We started there, but this is a new site and any MeFi-based bad blood should be left there. That's what I got out of it, anyway.

And what arse_hat said.

posted by me3dia 18 October | 01:09

From my point of view, I don't think there's any mandate for everything to be sunshine and flowers, but I detest threads that are taken over by two people getting into some personal spat; it's like insisting "No! We are going to fight, and we're going to do it right here in front of you, and no, you cannot go on with the conversation because we need your attention for this."

If people want to disagree about something and talk about that thing in a thread, it doesn't bother me, but I would walk away from their specific personal spat in real life, and I don't really like being forced to be an audience online.

I also think that getting online because you're in a bad mood and want to vent is likewise dictatorial. In whatever thread the grouchy person ends up participating, suddenly everyone there is hostage to their mood if they've only come to work off some aggression.

Finally, I will say this: metachat was actually created as a fun place... The clues are everywhere. Is there some kind of "happy rule"? Of course not, but why get upset about it being what it was basically meant to be?

People can talk about whatever they feel like talking about, and can make posts that have almost no guidelines beyond the bleeding obvious. If your mood is black, you can make a post reflecting that, and anyone who feels like it can jump right in. Do you want everyone in every other post to also get angry and pissy? That's probably not going to happen.

posted by taz 18 October | 01:10

I'm, also, am assuming much of this is by default, but as I can only do that much to insure I retain any presence here:
why fight the tide?

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:11

ethylene is one of the few who apparently pronounces Mee-Fee like I do. Am I right?

I can't even define MoFi on a normal day, so I daren't attempt to say what MeCha is. I just goeses with the flowses.

posted by tracicle 18 October | 01:19

Actually, I like that you can be cranky here. That's one of it's charms. I know there's a lot of the cute fuzzy animal stuff, but I think a lot of that is to defuse some of the ugly stuff that happens in our daily lives (I know I've been guilty of that). At least that's how I view it. I also think that this place lets us let our hair down and voice our opinions regardless. Where else would this post pass muster besides a personal blog? Dame, while I probably have the least room to speak here not being really in with the clique, I think you're most welcome to be cranky here. I think perhaps some of us avoid doing so because of societal reasons in general. A cranky vitriolic expulsion thread could be cathartic for some of us. Maybe I'll start one tomorrow if I am in the mood. Of course, some will tell you as I was told: if you don't like the content, move on. I guess it's up to what you want to tolerate, and consider the source.

posted by eekacat 18 October | 01:19

But, taz, I don't do that. I think my history here proves that.
And, me3dia, there is no need to respond to something you don't understand, which is most probably a clue that it is not meant for you.
Whoever gleans whatever from what I post is between them and their ears and eyes.
But that is something to bear in mind:
there is no need to respond to something you don't understand

I think my history proves that out as well.
People believe what they want to believe and that's fine with me. I roll pretty well with that get thrown at me.
But as I've said time and again:
just because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's nonsense.
Otherwise, we're all floating in a sea of nonsense, unless I missed the omnipotence someone revealed somewhere.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:21

arsehat, I did want to respond in that thread but by time I got to comment, it had derailed itself as well, and I was also meaning to abstain from posting for a while.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:24

but why get upset about it being what it was basically meant to be?

Because it feels like it's becoming something other than what it was.

In whatever thread the grouchy person ends up participating, suddenly everyone there is hostage to their mood if they've only come to work off some aggression.

I see your point. And despite what it may seem, I don't come here to vent in other people's threads. (Unless they ask how are you.) But at the same time, a lot of criticism seems to be taken for hostility, and then if you are a critical person, good mood or no, it feels like you're being held hostage in another way, you know?

Do you want everyone in every other post to also get angry and pissy?

No. But I would like it to be okay to say, "Hey Waffle House is pretty racist and keeps getting itself into lawsuits for it," and not be clomped for "making it MeFi," when I think of racist and Waffle House the way some people think of Waffle House and hash browns. Does that make sense?

Furthermore, I find it frustrating because I feel like being shut down makes it happen more, in this totally vicious circle. And maybe move on is the answer. But I would miss the family part of it, so I thought I'd give it a try.

posted by dame 18 October | 01:25

ethylene, I respect what you are doing but I have no comprehension of it. Or put another way, I go back and read Pynchon every few years because I get what he is doing and like how he does it. I don't go back to Kerouac near as often because while I like how he does his thing I still don't get it.

there is no need to respond to something you don't understand

If it is a major subtext of the thread it may not be a need but may be compelling.

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 01:30

I understand why people might single out dame for being negative, but I see it as being something born of how people communicate, not what they are trying to say. Like almost all the native born bickering I've seen here.
That also is part of the reason behind my lack of traditional "US speak".
And real flak that gets stirred up from things she posts is on the assumptions of the responers as much as it may be her mood.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:30

" "Hey Waffle House is pretty racist and keeps getting itself into lawsuits for it," and not be clomped for "making it MeFi," when I think of racist and Waffle House the way some people think of Waffle House and hash browns. Does that make sense?"

Makes sense to me.

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 01:32

Okay... I see what you are getting at, dame.

I agree with you. I think that was a perfectly fine conversational drift.

Hold on a minute, and I'll expand this further.

Also, ethylene I know you don't do the things I mentioned, and wasn't suggesting that at all. But I don't know why you are unhappy... If something has happened, I guess I missed it. I wish you would tell us...

Now, give me a sec., and I'll pull a couple of thoughts together.

posted by taz 18 October | 01:33

Another possibly unneccessary point:
Sometimes I see how things are going to go the wrong way, as in the waffle shirt thread, or even arsehat's thread.
If I could get there faster, perhaps my remarks might be able to forestall things before they start, but a really metafilter thing happened in that thread, whcih was people lost the entire point of the post: a shirt that was mocking, if not celebrating, the nature of waffle house.

For all the people who think I am somehow indecipherable, others seem to not only understand but appreciate it.

Weighing the balance, I still maintain that the mods have known since the beginning:
I only go where I'm wanted.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:38

I enjoy reading your comments ethylene.

posted by nomis 18 October | 01:42

For the record: reading ethylene was one of the things that drew me to MetaChat in the first place.

posted by bmarkey 18 October | 01:47

Some more pedantic expansion in the form of a question:
Does anyone here know what everyone is talking about?

posted by ethylene 18 October | 01:47

How could we ever even know? Let's take a step back before we get philosophy stains on our new shoes.

posted by nomis 18 October | 01:50

The Waffle House example:

Perfectly okay and good and interesting comment, especially with the links so there was some substance to discuss if anyone felt like going there. Jon seemed to see it maybe as an attack on the poster or post maybe, and I think he thought he was trying to defuse that.

But I think he's being a bit hypersensitive, because he's trying to modulate his own commenting and participating to be more positive lately. And Jon, we love you greatly, deeply, moistly - but sometimes your enthusiasms can be a bit bullying. And dame, you are also hypersensitive, and often come out punching before even drawing a breath. Non-hilarity ensues.

So the answer on that is: Neither dodgy nor I or any mod has made even the tiniest proclamation about serious subjects not being discussed, or serious ideas never being injected into a thread.

It is the nature of people to say things like "we do it this way here", or "we don't do that", but that's just people expressing the way they view it.

If it's up to me (and to only a certain, very limited degree, it is), I want three things: I want a place where I can relax and have fun and read interesting thoughts and comments (that don't all have to be sunny); I want to see what my friends are up to and hang out a little with them; ... and I want to fucking escape the nonstop barrage of nastiness and attack that seems (to me) to be mostly holding sway at mefi. If I can get those things, then I'm a happy bunny.

posted by taz 18 October | 01:59

I thought I was making it more inclusionary by encouraging some or giving some the opportunity to comment, for the worse in some cases.

In the beginning, I was really happy to see old mefites I hadn't seen since the beginning of metafilter show up in irc or otherwise in association with metachat, and prematurely said "it was a place where old mefites could retire and put up their feet and relax with everyone else"--

I'm not going to take up any more space going on about what I thought metachat was or is or is suppose to be or what I meant by [fill in the blank].
I've been reattending some of my old instablogs for that, some of which may even be public, and please don't bother to search them out.

That is another thing that really bothers me: the assumption I blog anything for some self aggrandizement or grandiose anything.

I'm not so hard to understand. I'm actually very simple.

The only things that may be puzzling are puzzles for puzzle loving people.

None of this has to do with metachat so I'm not putting any of it here except upon request that coincides with my wishes.

Now I'm sorry for the hijack, if not in small part to deflect any undue nastiness at dame.
As in many cases, I just used this thread as a convenient space that was in stride with what I meant to express.

ta da.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:00

btw, I should make one clarification about the "serious subjects" thing, though. The occasional politically oriented post... Well, okay. But if mecha turned into a political posting site, I'd be gone so fast that... it would be, like, really, really fast and stuff.

posted by taz 18 October | 02:09

nomis: What i meant was that I'm probably not going to post about, say, theoretical physics, unless it has some appeal to the non theoretical physics crowd, or I know someone else may be interested. That's just me.
I'm also going to probably stay out of, say, a sports thread in any serious nonskippable way if I'm just talking out my ass.

As for the waffle thread, dame's comment may have seemed sharp but since jon and matteo's comments, it was coming and the problem I observed was jon's hubris in commenting as he did, which is what lead to the rest.

on preview, taz, people do post political things. life is a political thing. no, i don't want it overrun either and mostly stay mum on such things, many things actually, to keep a general peace and lack any prostelytizing.
Since we have discussed this before, I think where I stand is pretty clear to those concerned.
I am vague and oblique to some and let them assume. It's the way that gets interpreted that bugs me.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:16

"I'm not so hard to understand. I'm actually very simple."
ok so i am very very simple cuz i don't understand at all.

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 02:18

wonderful, hat. you're on the path of wisdom in knowing you don't understand it all.
but you show much more understanding than some in what i feel is the true nature of this space.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:22

let me obfusticate further by entreating you to read only the even numbered time stamped posts

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:24

so smaller words or bigger words?
UK or US english?
more or less line breaks?
only hipster, oldtimey, or old school street slang?
all caps, no caps or someone else's idea of proper caps?

these are all the defining lines matt has tried to not have to delineate for good reasons and bad outcomes.
i've had ideas to try and stem problems but thought to suggest by example in a way that appealed to some and was happily skipped by others.
but don't worry or sorry, i'm not planning on leaving unless i'm asked or made to, such as history's examples provide.

why?
i dig it here, even if i'm alone in my own little hole i dug for myself

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:33

also, i probably assumed too much of many things

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:34

Those who say don't know.
Those who know don't say.

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 02:34

eth, I wish I knew what you said in your comment posted at 2:33, but as it was an odd-numbered post, I'll never find out.

Also, as per official rules, I'm typing only with my left hand at the moment, and after each use of the (*spin*) word "the" (*spin*) I'm spinning counter-clockwise in my chair.

posted by taz 18 October | 02:47

The moment you define Metachat, it isn't Metachat any more.

posted by dhruva 18 October | 02:55

and i am with all simple honesty being bothered by a fly

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:56

true in many ways, dhruva, but not all

posted by ethylene 18 October | 02:59

queue your q at q
i give everyone an a

posted by ethylene 18 October | 03:01

'cantankerous' and 'elliptical' are two of my favorite words. So don't anyone go running off anywhere, OK?

posted by trondant 18 October | 03:46

I can't define who the hell I am on any given day let alone contemplate wrapping the bluster, swank and charming randomness that careers around this place from the many eggzentrics into a well-tied package.

I guess it's unlikely to have much of an effect but I would advocate for those who are particularly sensitive to the way they are perceived or defined to not let it overly bother them. Just because one person says something in response to your comment that seems disparaging or the like doesn't mean that the inherant comedy or poignancy or whatever isn't taken on board by others.

So...you don't and can't know this because I don't much or necessarily often give feedback but damn dame and ethylene you are 2 characters who I like to see and hear from. That doesn't mean I necessarily like or even understand everything but your respective inputs are part of the ethereal swirl that rushes past my screen haphazardly from time to time as much as all the other contributions from all the other crazy drunkard angry delerious random effusive esoteric deluded enlightened rapturous lunatics who inhabit this stream of pixels and for that I'm thankful.

posted by peacay 18 October | 03:51

Yes.

:)

posted by taz 18 October | 03:56

oi! point the love at the dame
i'm just a broad
(or bored or bardo or
wishing i could go abroad and meet up with amberglow--)

posted by ethylene 18 October | 04:08

Huh.

I haven't read the Waffle House thread, so I don't know enough about what I'm talking about to have any importance, but, for me, at least, MeCha is:

A place for folks who have/had an interest in MeFi to talk to eachother with fewer restrictions about existence of links, quality of links, or double-posting, and which discourages the common hackle-raising arguments that appear on MeFi, or the amount of vile and invective that shows up in the more personal MeFi arguments.

And that's about it.

So I don't see argument in general as being against MeCha's charter. Even arguments about serious topics. I do see tired arguments (Israel vs. Palestine, Bush vs. The World, Christians vs. Sanity) as being disapproved of. I don't see personal disagreements as being against MeCha's charter. I do see the aggressive shit-flinging personal arguments of MeFi being against MeCha's charter.

So, I dunno. The way dame sees MeCha is not the same way I see MeCha.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 05:20

Jesus H Christ on a motherfucking bike - what the hell is wrong with you people?

Look it's really simple: you can post what you like so long as it doesn't make the baby jesus cry. Can you post politics? Sure, go ahead - but that shit works better at Mefi. Can you argue here? If you must but I think Mefi is better at that shit too. You can do what you like, your post won't be deleted and if any one tries to tell you you can't post it tell them to shove a bunny up their arse and hop home to mummy.

Just because two or three people tell you that "metachat doesn't do that" doesn't make it so.

Let me explain something:
You know how on Mefi virtually every post has a whole bunch of people complaining that the link is not the best of the web, that it should be deleted, that it's newsfilter, that it doesn't meet the guidelines? Notice how we don't have that tedious shit around here? That's because there aren't any guidelines! That's the good news. The bad news is because there aren't any guidelines people will try to define them - because, you know, people like rules and structure and stuff. We need to resist that as much as we can because that could kill this place.

So I'd just ask people to try and resist the urge to tell people what they can or can't do. If you think someone's being really, really out of order then take it up with the mods, we'll sort something out.

The key word around here shouldn't be "nice" it should be "tolerance" - a little more of that and we'll all be just fine.

And if ethylene goes, I go!

Yeah I typed this quickly and I don't have time to edit - make of it what you will

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 05:40

Oh and sorry for the Jesus H Christ line but it's kind of weird when I wake up to this sort of thing.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 05:43

aww, my night in shining geezer
*sigh*
as you go, i go
but like the thread linked, i think this is all a wee bit out of proportion--
for instance, i think this thread, with a couple questionable exceptions, is elegant comedy that i didn't post in for fear of messing it up.
and the *ahem* poster of the first linked thread has posted thinks of a somewhat political nature--

i think things are as well and good as can be expected, and i just hope to help them stay that way. that said though--

posted by ethylene 18 October | 05:54

--i could go all ubermetafilteranallinkexampleafterexample on anyone who really wants to do that, but i'd much rather get this off my chest:

I HATE TEH AND HOPE ME AND VIBRATING and many migratory "jokes"
and people who try to enforce new ones into existence.

i'm pretty good with cilantro but sick of seeing it mentioned--

now parsley is a complex story that does somewhat involve its extraction as being the base of "ecstacy"--

as always, note the links below

posted by ethylene 18 October | 06:01

If you use mecha as a substitute for group therapy, maybe there's a problem.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 06:44

but we saved pupps from snakey nightmares, so maybe we can do group threapy.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 06:47

The only thing that grates my cheese is when certain people who have agendas and issues with other certain people at metafilter, come here, and the two certain peoples get into it in a thread here, mentioning threads and linking to comments that they made there. I'd really like to shove my foot up the arses of those certain people. And there wouldn't be any prostrate massaging, either.

Other than that, bitching and complaining and general crabbiness here doesn't bother me at all. Because there are always going to be huge pink bunnies on hillsides in Italy and exploding pythons and Snakes! On a Plane! to counteract their crank.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 06:57

As far as the waffle house thread maybe I would have preferred someone to post a second thread about the racist discussion. As it was it was pretty jarring to be reminiscing about hash browns then all of a sudden people were being sharp with each other. Or maybe it wasn't the topic shift so much as my impression people were just being mean to each other. THAT is what I don't like. If you really want to rip somebody a new one, can you take it to email?

I have no problem discussing ANYTHING here. Having a thread like this one is a good idea. But it hurts me to see that -in my opinion-people are taking some things personally when they should not and are being seemingly hypersensitive, as if WE were the enemy? No one HERE is racist, at least as far as I can tell.
Dame, I don't know what is going on in your personal life and I know from experience that can affect you online, but there are some times I have read something you have posted and gone what the heck? Seems like you were just looking for someone to bite. Wouldn't it be better to post a thread saying-I wanna bite someone and this is why?

I just don't want to come online and see two of us going tooth and toenail in anger, then even worse, someone leaving in a huff. I don't want anybody leaving.

And on another note-ethylene, I still am totally befuzzled about what is bothering you. Why wouldn't you feel welcome here?

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 07:00

Oh and I forgot to add an aside especially for dame. I think you're fantabulous, and I don't care if you're cranky. Maybe you should share some of the reasons you are though - it might help.

You're the person who gave the most bootylicious (yeah, I know...hit me) shoutout that metachat will ever have, so you'll always have a special place in my heart. That, plus the fact that you asked me to marry you. Yeah, you forgot already, didn't you. Hmmpf.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 07:02

Oh and ethylene you aren't going anywhere, girl. Sorry. Not going to happen.

Do I need to duct tape you down?? Do I?

posted by iconomy 18 October | 07:04

First off, BUNNYFIRE, dame never said anything to you in that thread, so i wouldn't be WEing and YOUing her. Or anyone.
now i'm gonna take a deep breath before i go on--

posted by ethylene 18 October | 07:08

This is a really, really stupid thread. And I am saying so because I'm cranky.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 07:09

Where's the waffle house thread? Was it that one about a tshirt from a couple of days ago?

posted by iconomy 18 October | 07:11

Where's the waffle house thread? Was it that one about a tshirt from a couple of days ago?

Yep. And I think the first comment was from me saying "you yanks are weird". If only I knew...

This is a really, really stupid thread. And I am saying so because I'm cranky.

Shut it poopyhead.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 07:17

So we're agreed we can't say cranky things? Okay, then.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 07:18

I'm cranky, too. I don't really understand what the problem here is, unless it's the general lack of problems.

posted by puddinghead 18 October | 07:23

You can say cranky things but only if you wear the poopyhead hat and point at the hat while you say it.

Actually I'm only winding your crank. But you knew that anyway.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 07:23

*points at poopyhead hat*

posted by kmellis 18 October | 07:24

*ditto*

posted by puddinghead 18 October | 07:26

Now, see, ethylene, that is what I mean.

And it didn't matter to me whether the comments were directed AT me or not. We are a community, and if one person throws mud at another any bystanders get spattered too.

I am trying to speak collectively. In one thread it might be dame and jonmc. In another thread it might be two other people. It doesn't matter WHO as the truth is it could be any of us at any given time.

I just don't want anybody flouncing off in a huff. I don't want people's feelings hurt here. I got a bellyfull of that in...other...places and I personally would rather not see it here.

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 08:00

bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker

It is a funny word.

posted by stavrosthewonderchicken 18 October | 08:10

bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker
   hissyfit hissyfit
bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker
   hissyfit hissyfit
bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker
   hissyfit hissyfit
bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker bicker
   oooh the shame, shame, oooh the shame

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 08:16

let's see, BUNNYFIRE, where to start--
well, i guess it's already metasticized so here goes.
Let's go look that the thread at hand because it is right there.

As far as the waffle house thread maybe I would have preferred someone to post a second thread about the racist discussion. As it was it was pretty jarring to be reminiscing about hash browns then all of a sudden people were being sharp with each other.

so fucking what?
What I said as soon as I could in that thread was good and bad things happen there, but I didn't go on about the bad because it was obviously "heading south." And just because you associate WH with happy hashbrowns doesn't mean EVERYONE does or WE all do.
But the problem there wasn't really a problem until jon decided to make uninformed sweeping comments about the south and then proceeded to try and take the defender's stance for both the south and all "white" people.
Despite the fact that dame was directly addressing jon's comments, and what everyone else was saying, the thread ends with two "white" people agreeing that "hey, racism does exist" as far as you two were concerned, and if it weren't for Carbolic's clarifying comment after, i may have added more. But instead i put it somewhere else. And it's pretty well just been repeated.

Part two: pretty much your second paragraph up there, which is the tone of much of what you've been posting here, with a hell of a lot of WE and US and EVERYONE and ANYTHING for someone who came about a little late to the party. Your comments in the quonsar thread also come off to speak for more than yourself and if anything added to any further deletoriousness to that metatalk thread about metachat, it was you coming off as if you speak for more than you. Not to mention the sickening "wuvvies" where they really didn't belong.
The second point of irony to me was seeing taz make the penultimate post in that metatalk thread, which (sorry, dear) set off my cringe factor off to no end, especially in light of the porpoise post. I kept my comments confined to emails to q and what you can see, speaking for only MYSELF.

I keep seeing you make comments about US and WE, acting all motherly when most of the problems I've seen you a part of have had with you have to do with your *ahem* "excessive attempts to help" which I AM NOT GOING TO GO ON ABOUT IN REGARDS TO HOW THAT HAS AFFECTED ME
but while trying to put that all aside, your one comment in a thread of mine, i took to be somehow you trying to help with my request, but was in actuality once again, really just about you.

i really feel you are not the best representative to wave the metachat flag, but you seem to be the one who is doing it most AND THAT IS WHAT IS BOTHERING ME ABOUT THIS. Some people may appreciate the delphi depression chatroom atmosphere you like to conduct yourself with. i do not. i have generally just been ignoring you and don't really care if you stay or go.
If dame wants to talk about something, she should feel free, because she has been before, not because you say.
And if i or anyone doesn't feel like being pried into, that's fine, too. And we should be free to say so despite your whole WE US BUNNY schtick.

now if for some reason you wish to personally hassle me further, i believe you may be able to irritate a few government officials before they put you on the "nutbag" list but i'd advise you to keep shut very tightly on anything outside of this conversation between you and myself.

someone asked. i answered.
as it's always been.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:23

I only come here for the traffic updates for my morning commute. Did I hear you sell Waffle House shirts here now?

posted by Slack-a-gogo 18 October | 08:26

i still despise each and every one of you. i just lie about it here.

posted by quonsar 18 October | 08:31

quick summary:

I am trying to speak collectively

SPEAK FOR YOURSELF!

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:31

ah, now, what would dodgy do?
i feel so refreshed
where are the keylime kitkats?

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:33

q, stop bogarting the blood of the first born christian babies

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:34

Aren't you special, ethylene? Boy, you sure put bunnyfire--"late to the party, bunnyfire"--in her place.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 08:37

no, i just answered a question
cranky much?

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:40

what would dodgy do?

dodgy's going to the pub to try and forget this all ever happened. i think this thread will require about eight pints so i may be some time.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 08:41

i've basically just repeated things i've said before: don't pimp metachat, speak for yourself, stop making sweeping generalizations, gimme some food

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:42

look, i don't care who is here as long as the mods don't care. she asked, i answered. it's out there, i don't have any grudge or lingering anything. that's it. it's done. pass the chips.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:44

i do wish some people to feel free to stay
and say what they want
like i just did
i mostly bite back but, hey, she asked.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 08:45

Could we just have a taboo on talking about talking about what the taboos are?

Cheery my ass.

*old grump*

posted by warbaby 18 October | 08:54

THE DINNER PARTY
The highest type of human society in the existing social order is found in the parlor. In the elegant and refined reunions of the aristocratic classes there is none of the impertinent interference of legislation. The Individuality of each is fully admitted. Intercourse, therefore, is perfectly free. Conversation is continuous, brilliant, and varied. Groups are formed according to attraction. They are continuously broken up, and re-formed through the operation of the same subtile and all-pervading influence. Mutual deference pervades all classes, and the most perfect harmony, ever yet attained, in complex human relations, prevails under precisely those circumstances which Legislators and Statesmen dread as the conditions of inevitable anarchy and confusion. If there are laws of etiquette at all, they are mere suggestions of principles admitted into and judged of for himself or herself, by each individual mind. Is it conceivable that in all the future progress of humanity, with all the innumerable elements of development which the present age is unfolding, society generally, and in all its relations, will not attain as high a grade of perfection as certain portions of society, in certain special relations, have already attained? Suppose the intercourse of the parlor to be regulated by specific legislation. Let the time which each gentleman shall be allowed to speak to each lady be fixed by law; the position in which they should sit or stand be precisely regulated; the subjects which they shall be allowed to speak of, and the tone of voice and accompanying gestures with which each may be treated, carefully defined, all under pretext of preventing disorder and encroachment upon each other's privileges and rights, then can any thing be conceived better calculated or more certain to convert social intercourse into intolerable slavery and hopeless confusion? --S. Pearl Andrews The Science of Society

posted by warbaby 18 October | 08:57

*gone to the pub with Dodgy*

posted by urbanwhaleshark 18 October | 09:01

Ah, ah!
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
from the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods
Will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying:
Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar,
Our only goal will be the western shore.
Ah, ah!

posted by kmellis 18 October | 09:02

look, no one has to play peacemaker here, at least with me. i'm fine. more than fine actually.
i'm just sorry if dame has this all in her inbox and doesn't find it at least entertaining.
and anyone who would like me to go, speak up.
i'm ok, you're ok
let's eat chips

posted by ethylene 18 October | 09:03

Can they be Spanish Salad flavored?

posted by iconomy 18 October | 09:07

if it will make everyone happy, i give bunnyfire the convivial open handshake.
etsi.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 09:07

A little while afterwards they heard the voice of Alcibiades resounding in the court; he was in a great state of intoxication and kept roaring and shouting "Where is Agathon? Lead me to Agathon," and at length, supported by the flute-girl and some of his attendants, he found his way to them.

"Hail, friends," he said, appearing-at the door crown, with a massive garland of ivy and violets, his head flowing with ribands. "Will you have a very drunken man as a companion of your revels? Or shall I crown Agathon, which was my intention in coming, and go away? For I was unable to come yesterday, and therefore I am here to-day, carrying on my head these ribands, that taking them from my own head, I may crown the head of this fairest and wisest of men, as I may be allowed to call him.

"Will you laugh at me because I am drunk? Yet I know very well that I am speaking the truth, although you may laugh. But first tell me; if I come in shall we have the understanding of which I spoke? Will you
drink with me or not?"

- Symposium

posted by warbaby 18 October | 09:08

*stealthily places joybuzzer in ethylene's hand while she's not looking*

posted by iconomy 18 October | 09:09

I don't want you to go. I do want some chips. Thanks.

posted by puddinghead 18 October | 09:10

hey, no matter what, i'm not letting go of my rockin' mods, duct tape or no.
and i'd go down the pub with dodgy 'cept i don't wanna offend his woman.
(shout out to mrs. d)
when i gotsa problem with someone, i say.
that's me.
pretty straight shootin', really.
when that becomes a problem, then i'll go.
otherwise
foodstuff of your choice all around
i only wish i could do that in person.

and remember to buy a lottery ticket.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 09:18

There's a tradition at my college that everyone gets drunk for the seminar on Symposium. It would be very annoying, but it actually makes it more tolerable to listen to 18-year-olds talk about the nature of love.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 09:20

There was another occasion on which his behaviour was very remarkable-in the flight of the army after the battle of Delium, where he served among the heavy-armed-I had a better opportunity of seeing him than at Potidaea, for I was myself on horseback, and therefore comparatively out of danger. He and Laches were retreating, for the troops were in flight, and I met them and told them not to be discouraged, and promised to remain with them; and there you might see him, Aristophanes, as you describe, just as he is in the streets of Athens, stalking like a bunny and rolling his eyes, calmly contemplating enemies as well as friends, and making very intelligible to anybody, even from a distance, that whoever attacked him would be likely to meet with a stout resistance; and in this way he and his companion escaped-for this is the sort of man who is never touched in war; those only are pursued who are running away headlong.

- Symposium

posted by warbaby 18 October | 09:21

fascinating

posted by mcgraw 18 October | 09:22

It didn't end with Socrates, you know. This stuff still happens all the time. For example, my friend Perry Mills is getting served the hemlock as we speak. But unlike Socrates, he's going to overthrow the system and hang the judge. More here.

posted by warbaby 18 October | 09:33

I want to go ... on your chips.

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 09:51

I am here to solve all of your problems, which I can do because I don't have a dog in this race, I like and am sometimes baffled by or disagree with all of you. There is no beef without the intent to beef, don't start nothing, won't be nothing. Enforced cheer is bullshit, but so is dueling to let off steam or practicing hackles raised just-gimme an-excusism.

All the people here who tend to steer discussions for the pleasure of bouncing off other minds or simply because they want to talk about what they want to talk about dammit (YT included) need to have a thick enough skin to do so, I think that is the mandatory here and nothing else.

Now some awards and accolades, Eth, when I first encountered you I was totally at a loss, not sure if I was supposed to be offended, confused or not invited. This was because I was too used to the mefi didactic essay French bac A + B =C method, even though I am a known nonlinearista and Beckett Scholar. So thank you for unjamming my psychic carburetor and please stay.

Dame
You are smart and right way more often then not, don't let that go to your head. You shoot quick, which is excellent but dangerous.
Don't be sad, feel less, sometimes that is good.

Bunnyfire,
If I say you are nice, please let me say I believe it. In many ways I think you are a paragon of courage to hang out in places where your beliefs will get you attacked over and over and still do your thing thing, I hope you stay too.

Thanks Dodgy and Taz for this place.

If I can hold up a finger and hold aside my toga to reveal a comely and well formed calve, may I say:

Gaze not too long into the navel, lest it gaze back into you.

Here is my proposal for a contest:

10 page essay, no points for grammar, full points for sentences of six words of less, more of a ten page telegram perhaps, on WHAT METACHAT MEANS TO ME. Place this in an envelope, I want you to hold that envelope between your knees. When done, take the envelope, put it in another envelope and wrap it in packing tape, tight. Bury that envelope under a tree, at least 30 paces from the nearest man made structure, bury it deep. Go home and wash up for supper. The winner, as determined by random chance. will be taken out to Afghan Kebob house #9 on Queens boulevard, my treat.

Peace and love on the playground and shit.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 09:55

My only contribution to this thread will be a resounding "word" to D_W.

posted by gaspode 18 October | 09:58

I'm glad I missed this.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 10:05

When two tribes go to war, money's all that you can score.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 10:11

So, where's the money?

posted by jonmc 18 October | 10:12

Screw the money, where's the whiskey?

*shoots jon's hat for old time's sake*

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:14

Ethylene,

I see where you're coming from, and kinda agree and kinda disagree.

Regarding bunnyfire's "wuvvies" and such: I'm not a big person for that type of group affection. Always bugged me in person, and bugs me on the internet. But that's just a difference in personality types, and I can't say it's a particularly bad thing, it's just a "not my thing" thing. So bunnyfire doing the wuvvies may bug me, but that's my problem, not hers, and I wouldn't ask her to stop.

Regarding the whole "collective" thing: I think you're misinterpreting what she meant by that. The "collective" wasn't in reference to things like "we don't want thing A to happen", but in reference to "When we have arguments, I am annoyed". In the first case, it's speaking for someone else. In the second case, it's just another way of saying "people here on MeCha", and isn't saying anything for them.

For example, when I click on posts that "we" have posted marked "NSFW", I endanger my job. That is not speaking for anyone, it's just using the word "we" instead of "people here".

Now, if I'm misinterpreting it, and bunnyfire meant "collective" to mean stuff like "we don't want thing A to happen", then I totally agree, and, if that's the case, I'll also chime in with "I may agree with you, and I may disagree with you, but either way, speak for yourself".

posted by bugbread 18 October | 10:16

*shoots jon's hat for old time's sake*

I'm not wearing a hat. That's my hair, you lousy varmint.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 10:17

Hey, Jon! You wanna write a jacket blurb for my forthcoming book on the Mills fiasco? The title is A Fistful of Documents.

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:19

on the who where what now?

posted by jonmc 18 October | 10:24

See here for the Mills Scandal. I'm writing three books about it. The first is titled A Fistful of Documents. Do you want to write a blurb for the back cover?

This is the front cover:
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:31

Sorry, see here for the Mills Scandal.

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:32

bugbread: let it lie. i know you mean well but i afford her the intelligence and dignity to know what i mean and the wisdom to know i mean no one any harm nor am casting aspersions upon anyone.
simple words on a page as to which she has herself repeatedly stated.
my opinions are mine and i'm over it.
i hope she is too.
i try not to push my opinions onto anyone or their choices.

"Wow, all this weighing in makes it... heavy..."

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:33

Also, just for reference, while Dame & I often seem about 2 steps from killing eachother online, IRL we get along famously, which is why I'm always surprised these little spats get taken so seriously.

I have to admit that I do see this site as a "respite," from the Thunderdome for Nerds atmosphere at the blue, and am delighted to see that people I've brawled with at mefi are completely convivial here.

I don't object to people being serious or moody here, god knows I'm often the latter, but I don't want this place to turn into the continuation of mefi by other means either, since that would spoil it.

Blurb: This book contains the finest spam-based recipies I have ever read. Yum.

j/k. I'd have to read it first, dude, which I've been to busy to do. I'll get around to it.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 10:34

You can't read it yet, silly. I'm still writing the last chapters. I will send you a proof when I get them from the printers.

Actually, I like the blurb. Just for you, I'll put a can of spam on the cover of For a Few Documents More. That's Book 2: coverup. This one has a bottle of Jameson's Irish Whisky in the background.

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:39

"Dude, chill."
"It was just an example."
"Doesn't anyone read anymore?"

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:45

Ethyl, dear: "j/k"

posted by warbaby 18 October | 10:47

Intercourse, therefore, is perfectly free.

where, now?

posted by quonsar 18 October | 10:52

Wow, kmellis, is that the generous reading that's gonna save the world? You aren't dragging any bad feelings from other places to this thread are you, you pompous useless ass?

Other than that, thanks everyone for your input, even the stuff I don't agree with.

posted by dame 18 October | 10:53

warbaby: duh?
and fly update: it's came back. i think i may have gotten it, but i can't find the body.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:53

Jesus H Christ on a motherfucking bike

as you wish:

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by quonsar 18 October | 10:56

dabitch is gonna love this thread
someone get her that laptop

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:57

laughing makes babies come
ask the badly misinterpreted eskimos

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:57

which is a slur term!

posted by ethylene 18 October | 10:59

heh.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 11:00

So is "babies," ethylene.

They're "tomorrow's toddlers" now.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 11:06

and "someday's gaffers" as well.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 11:10

I just wanted to add that I don't buy Domino's Pizza because I'm against the firebombing of abortion clinics

posted by matteo 18 October | 11:19

:)

posted by matteo 18 October | 11:20

snapple still sucks too right?

posted by ethylene 18 October | 11:21

I just wanted to add that I don't buy Domino's Pizza because I'm against the firebombing of abortion clinics

The fact that it's shitty pizza just makes it that much easier.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 11:24

In my mind there's an distinct difference between an adherence to the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law, just as there is a distinct difference between one-upmanship based arguing that becomes an arena for personal attacks and intellectual debate.

Intellectual debate is fun. One-upmanship based arguing where one's contribution is summarily disqualified on the basis of grammar or details that may have been confused without opportunity for redress or correction, is not fun to be in or to watch.

I think that there's also something to be said for good manners and the gift of graciousness. It's unpopular these days, I realize that. Much in the way that being nice or optimistic or positive is. It's simply cooler to be a jerk. Similar to how one can state outright that they are an asshole, knowingly, and expect the warm embrace of the same people that they treat with such assholish behavior. So be it.

BUT. [There's always a 'but', isn't there?] But, intellectual discourse and debate that does not devolve into character assassination takes places on a frequent and regular basis. I see it and engage in it daily, IRL. Additionally, on a purely personal level, I get paid very good money to deal with assholes, inflated egos and resolve conflict, professionally. When faced with it here, versus, say, spending the afternoon reading a good book or taking a hike or working on a project, the cost benefit analysis is clear.

I truly dig you guys, even those who are bugs in the bonnet. I don't entertain the idea that life is easy or happy by design, but I think that it can be by choice. I also think that there's value in going all out with one's misery, but I also think that doesn't mean pissing on someone else's parade for the simple fact of ego satisfaction or proving a point. [Actually, pissing on someone else's parade is bad form, period unless you have a certified medical excuse and a catheter.] This is not grade school, my friends.

This is all to say that I don't expect people to stop being assholes here, even if they claim to not be assholes IRL. However, it's worth noting that the rise of that behavior will mark the decreased presence of those who do not share a similar MOD. That's a simple fact of social dynamics.

posted by Frisbee Girl 18 October | 11:29

the last domino's pizza i had was an abortion.

posted by quonsar 18 October | 11:29

The fact that it's shitty pizza just makes it that much easier.

frankly, yes.
but I still don't buy Wagner cd's. even if the music is marginally better than Domino's pizza

and quonsar, just don't order fetus topping

posted by matteo 18 October | 11:35

FRISBEE

YER

SO

HAWT!!!!

posted by quonsar 18 October | 11:35

Actually, I'm thinking of opening a restaurant that serves only veal, baby greens, baby carrotts, lamb chops, and alfalfa sprouts, and calling it the Infanticide Bistro. Make your reservations now.

but I still don't buy Wagner cd's.

Wagner's a fairly egregious case, but what bothers me about the whole political scorecard approach to consumption is that if you look hard enough at anyone's (or any company or institution's)life and attitudes, you're going to find something unpleasant or offensive, which leads us into glass houses and stones territory yet again.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 11:39

Wow it's hard to miss when quonsar decides to get his flirt on.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 11:40

jon, don't forget baby back ribs.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 11:44

I love all you crabby patties!

(From the "resident" vegetarian, no less.)

posted by tr33hggr 18 October | 11:45

Actually, the more I think about it, the more useless this thread appears. The happy fascists have made it clear that they're going to be happy fascists. And the people who don't care never cared. So I'm a big fucking retard. Hooray.

posted by dame 18 October | 11:51

I just wanted to add that I don't play dominos because I don't know how and I'm intimidated from learning in my neighborhood by a pretty tough language/culture barrier. But I'm enamored of the way those gaffers slam down the tiles. Woot!

And Domino's pizza sucks anyway so it's not hard not to compromise oneself. Like jonmc said concisely and quonsar said shockingly, above.

I think Snapple is evil (they still talk to Charles Manson), and I still consider Coors, no matter how they try to erase the past, to be Nazi beer.

It's easy for me to divest in things I don't like. Now, if it turned out that Mountain Dew was behind the Indonesian genocide in East Timor, my convictions might be sorely tested.

So what's wrong with Jack Wagner now?

And on preview, I love you, Frisbee Girl. Don't ever leave.

And if I bicker with anyone here, it's over a problem I'm trying to solve, not one I'm trying to create.

Thanks for the opportunity to feel at home again.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 11:52

*pounds head against desk*
*sighs wearily*

posted by jonmc 18 October | 11:53

So I'm a big fucking retard. Hooray.

I wouldn't say that, at all.

posted by tr33hggr 18 October | 11:53

So I'm a big fucking retard. Hooray.

And I'm the little retard holding your hand as we ride the short bus together.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 11:59

They're "tomorrow's toddlers" now.

Y'all talkin' about precorpses?

Dame, don't get so disheartened. This thread has shown maybe 2 or 3 people who agree with you, and 1 or 2 who disagree, and a bunch of other folks just being goofy. If you toss out the neutrals, you're being agreed with more than disagreed with.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 12:00

No one HERE is racist, at least as far as I can tell.

I hate Georgians, going so far as to wipe my ass with pages from The Knight in the Panther Skin. And it is racism not just prejudice, because I don't believe they're human.

hth

posted by PinkStainlessTail 18 October | 12:03

Dame, don't get so disheartened.

No, please, be as disenheartened as you like. Be heartbroken. MeCha makes you "sad". Weep. Mope. Curse. Because you're a special snowflake.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 12:07

*pisses on someone's parade*

posted by mcgraw 18 October | 12:11

dame, kmellis:

this quote goes out to both of you, right now

posted by jonmc 18 October | 12:11

If you toss out the neutrals, you're being agreed with more than disagreed with.

I suppose. But it isn't an election. More that the people I had hoped to at least rethink clearly have no intention of doing so. And they'll continue to complain whenever someone is being "mean" (as though that weren't as controlling as what they complain against--but it's okay because they're happy! and good! and shiny!).

So I fucked up, either by not writing well enough or by not being a good enough source. You know, I'll try to do better next time. It's not the end of the world. But it is a failure.

And Hugh, I'll always hold *your* hand.

On preview: Jon, I can't hear it. Kmellis, go fuck yourself with barbed-wire covered bamboo you sorry waste of air and protein. Ooooh, you are so perceptive with your little perfomance art. I'll see how it feels, finally. The light will come to me and I will see how brillliant you are. Because clearly the problem is that I have always been too stupid to understand your genius arguments, but now you have finally shown me,

posted by dame 18 October | 12:16

This thread is closed to new comments.

← mmmmm nyquil || flagpoll →

posted by mcgraw 18 October | 12:17

That sure makes me reconsider the benefits and the doubts and all. Seeking her out like that, perverting other people's words to score a nasty point... was I wrong? Maybe it is just par for the course.

It doesn't matter who you target when you poison the air. We all have to breathe.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 12:18

How come you guys like ribs? It's always puzzled me and not because I'm especially ignorant of styles/recipes, I've heard people wax lyrical about whichever type they die for and it's not like I haven't tried them, just not too often.

But....all that godamn work for what? The tiniest bit of meat imaginable. It's one of those traditions where you convince yourself the payoff is actually better than logic would otherwise decree huh?

posted by peacay 18 October | 12:23

On preview: Jon, I can't hear it.

transcribed: (Customer) You hope what feels good?
(Randall) I hope it feels so good to be right. There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?

-Clerks

posted by jonmc 18 October | 12:23

I can't tell who's being insulted anymore. Time to exit this thread.

Although a parody of this thread is just begging to be written...

peacay, I totally agree about the ribs. Too much work for too little payoff.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 12:24

peacay: when cooked right, the meat is incredibly tasty. Plus it's really fun to eat with your hands and gnaw on bones like a caveman. Ditto for getting sauce stains on your shirt.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 12:26

Dame love, people have a right to complain that you are being mean just as you have a right to be "mean". Like you said it's not an election.

Your running gunfight with kmellis is both hilarious and annoying, I know you don't care what I think about that, which is a wonderful kind of freedom.

Do whatever you want, expect others to do so as well. Come on.

Peacay:

It's the sauce and the length of cooking time that allows the flavors to mingle so well. Ribs are like lobster, meat's pretty good, but demolishing a large sea insect and eating it with butter and lemon, barbarian style is the reward, the total package. Oh also there is really a bunch of meat on the ends. Now I want Barbque.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 12:27

Peacay, I always thought ribs were just a sauce delivery device, the way salad is a vinegar delivery device. But then, you'd think people who like ribs would like tofu, which is an even better sauce delivery system. But I hate food that gets my fingers dirty, so I am unfit to discuss ribs further.

posted by dame 18 October | 12:29

Blasphemy peacay. Blasphemy!

posted by arse_hat 18 October | 12:30

(To be perfectly clear, long after the fact:)

I likes ya, eth. I just don't always understands ya.

Carry on!

posted by me3dia 18 October | 12:32

mcgraw tricked me! What a mean dickwad in the eye he is.

But....all that godamn work for what? The tiniest bit of meat imaginable.

You said 'ribs'...but surely you meant blue crabs. It's the beer and the mess and the eating off newspaper and the friends and the delicious mustard-coated meat that make a crabpot the ultimate in fine dining.

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 12:33

I've never been to Baltimore.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 12:34

Dame love, people have a right to complain that you are being mean just as you have a right to be "mean".

Well, no, Wino. The analogue is that they have a right to be insufferably cutesy. And I don't go into such threads and stamp and say, "Start talking about the misery of being alive, NOW!" And I don't.

But there were, I suppose, two desires in the posting: (a) to see if what I was perceiving as an overwhelming consensus was in fact that and (b) to see if the happy fascists saw that they were being what they pretend to be against. (A) was anwered; (b) sort of.

Thanks for the transcript, jon. I like pointing out my own shortcomings, too. Especially if that comes with beer.

posted by dame 18 October | 12:35

More that the people I had hoped to at least rethink clearly have no intention of doing so. And they'll continue to complain whenever someone is being "mean"

Well, I've got to give you this: you've brought out some meanness in kmellis that I've never seen before.

The question, of course, is who, if anyone, has the special power to make Jessamyn really mean.

---

And all you folks who like ribs, crab, fried chicken, and other pain-in-the-ass foods are all just masochists.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 12:36

And all you folks who like ribs, crab, fried chicken, and other pain-in-the-ass foods are all just masochists.

and it hurts so good. And give us credit for this much, we gnaw our flesh off of what is obviously animal parts while getting grease and juices on our hands and leaving bones and shells in piles. It's naked lunch, dude.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 12:40

That's where I'm from (Baltimore), and I don't dig on steamed crabs -- not enough payoff for difficult, hazardous work. Like artichokes or pomegranates. Ribs are different -- it's just gnawing, no jackhammers to get at the meat. I dig on ribs.

Give me a crabcake, or a bbq sandwich, though, and I'm in heaven.

I heard they closed down the Fort McHenry tunnel today. Is everything okay down there?

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 12:40

Heh. I thought that might bring a few comments. Hm well, I'm not against indulging if they are prepared for me - and I love BBQ food, hell BBQs are a national pastime here - but I think when I have to actually contribute energy or meat, I'll stick to other boned foods that have a bit more proteinous goodness, but I'm happy about sauces of all different kinds and enjoy all sorts of juices dripping off my elbows. You all carry on however.

And on prev...I adore all forms of seacreatures and never ever mind the work.

posted by peacay 18 October | 12:42

If you can't be vicious to someone who complains about the "happy fascists", who the fuck can you be vicious to, I ask? But I'm starting to think the spittle at the corner of her mouth is sorta cute.

My brother-in-law and his family are from Baltimore, so I expect I'll be over thataway sometime. Crab sounds good.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 12:44

Thanks for clearing it up a little, but I don't get it. Who (really who) is compelling you to march in lockstep, as opposed to criticizing or disagreeing with you? Fuckit anyway I guess.

And all you folks who like ribs, crab, fried chicken, and other pain-in-the-ass foods are all just masochists.

More of a yogurt/pablum guy are you? What is a pain in the ass about fried chicken, other than the attendant difficulties associated with getting it in my fucking belly in vast quantities, along with slaw, gravy and mashed potatoes?

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 12:45

Well, I've got to give you this: you've brought out some meanness in kmellis that I've never seen before.

Then you haven't been paying attention. He's been like that around me since we were aware of the other's existence. And but for two exceptions, I've not been the one to start. Because there is no getting through to him for me, so insults is really the only answer and those even bore me.

posted by dame 18 October | 12:47

The first time I et steamed crabs, a section of shell tore into my thumb, ruining dinner and scarring me for life.

There, I said it.

*breathes deeply, cries, breathes shallowly, sighs, looks for support, blushes, breathes deeply, straightens clothes, fusses with items on desk, sobs a little, breathes shallowly, looks for tissue, covers face, runs for door*

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 12:48

kmellis, you don't have to be vicious to anyone.
It's not a hard concept to process.

Nor you dame. Angry is not the same as verbalized personal vindictiveness.

*steals Hugh's crab portion*

posted by peacay 18 October | 12:53

Clearly, Hugh, a meetup is in order to help you learn to face your fears. Please email kmellis to arrange an appropriate time next crab season for you two to come visit.

Perhaps dame could also come down and she and kmellis could entertain us with some good ol' fashioned Old Bay wrestling. Or BBQ sauce wrestling.

(I'm not really a Baltimoron, so I have no news of the tunnel.)

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 12:56

Me too Hugh, just this summer I was eating crabs and oysters in New Orleans, because crawdaddies were out of season and when I was done it looked like I had been in a slapfight with a pirannaha. Still like the process though. I guess I am a masochist, just not the type where a big boned lady in a batman mask stands on my balls in size twelve heels and costs me 300 dollars an hour in a drywall dungeon next to an H&R block, more the kind where I get to be full of food at the end.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 12:56

/me smudges mecha, dances around fire, summons spirit of mellow.

posted by moonbird 18 October | 12:58

Okay, I admit it. I've been persecuting poor dame for at least a year. It's just something I do, I can't help myself. About once a year or so I randomly pick a target--usually someone just as completely innocent and virtuous as dame--and then hound, insult, and provoke them just for the hell of it. I am powerless over this habit, it's the only thing that makes me happy.

Bugbread, you're next.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 12:58

More of a yogurt/pablum guy are you? What is a pain in the ass about fried chicken, other than the attendant difficulties associated with getting it in my fucking belly in vast quantities, along with slaw, gravy and mashed potatoes?

Maybe it's because of my childhood of "Michael, there's still some chicken on that drumstick" "But, mom, I got all the meat off that I could" "No, there's still some stuff stuck on there by the joint". I prefer stuff I can cut with a fork and knife and then put pieces entirely in my mouth, or, even better, stuff that I don't even need a knife for, and can just chopstick, fork, or shovel into my gob. Doesn't have to be soft, just requires no "remove edible part from inedible part" labour.

Then you haven't been paying attention. He's been like that around me since we were aware of the other's existence.

Well, I don't know about when y'all first met, but otherwise, that's what I was trying to say: I've only seen him act mean in such an overt way to you. But "bring out" may have been a bit extreme: I dunno if you brought out the meannness, or just some sort of innocent catalyst that triggered a spontaneous meanness. Either way, point is, "Dame + Kmellis = Kmellis is being unusually vicious", with no implication of who is at fault and who isn't.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 12:59

Good God, do I love crawfish. I'll even suck the head and all that, although I try very hard not to think about it.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 13:00

My God, this thread is a long-un. Depressing, too. Can someone give me the gist, so I don't have to read all that misery and disappointment?

What did we decide? Thanks!

posted by Skrik 18 October | 13:02

Well...if i couldn't just be who i am here, i wouldnt be here. That means sometimes you get silly schyler, sometimes sad schyler...

Stereolab says it best...

You go in that team
I go on this team
Divide everything
A flag or a number
Make 'em opposites
So there's a reason
Stigmatisation
Ok now we can fight
Divide everything
Just put it all flat
Justification
Ok now you can fight

It is correct and reasonable

posted by Schyler523 18 October | 13:02

Fuck.

Crawfish.

My whole logical system is crumbling down: peeling crawfish doesn't annoy me at all. And yet peeling shrimp does.

Maybe y'all are all general masochists, while my crawfish thing is like a certain fetish within the whole masochist playspace. You are the furries, and I'm the "turtle furries only" guy.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 13:03

If you think I think I'm innocent, then you're even dumber than I expected. If you think I'm not going to stand up for myself, well, see above.

posted by dame 18 October | 13:04

That's where the fat (Yes YES mudbug fat) and the seasonings reside, you must suck the head. Fucking hurricaine took my resturant where the beer comes in zinc buckets, the food is cooked by shirtless dudes in rubber boots in vats, the mudbugs are served on cafeteria trays in huge glinting piles and all the waitstaff looked like Jon Candy. Fuck.

I ate a turtle once, and it is rumored that johnny paycheck went to jail over shooting someone in a disagreement about how to cook turtle soup (nobody correct me on that please, I need it to be true.)
Turtle meat is good.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 13:05

Two Baltimore tunnels closed in security threat

posted by kmellis 18 October | 13:07

Turtles aren't furry. At. All.

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 13:08

If you think I think I'm innocent, then you're even dumber than I expected. If you think I'm not going to stand up for myself, well, see above.

Neither one, really. Just don't feel like investigating the issue enough to form an opinion about that.

Turtles aren't furry. At. All.

They are when they're two weeks dead and in a dark, moist closet.

posted by bugbread 18 October | 13:12

I remember reading one of the sequels to the Kon Tiki Expedition and the south pacific islanders, back in the 40s, raved that turtle was the greatest food of all. They were only rarely captured but it always became a village feast.

I've never tried it but the happiest people in the world think it's the bee's knees so I would have a go.

posted by peacay 18 October | 13:13

Kinda like fishy beef, sorta taste. Odd but good.

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 13:20

Dano: That isn't true.

posted by dame 18 October | 13:22

(bugbread: That wasn't to you. I think you are many things, but I can't say dumb is among them.)

posted by dame 18 October | 13:23

Snake on a tiger!
Hair on a tortoise!

On preview, I stand corrected and non-innocent

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 13:24

Kinda like fishy beef, sorta taste.

Gator tastes similar. Every other bar in South Florida serves them, so I et my share during my two year exile in the land of Sunshine & Serial Killers.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 13:25

fly update: it's still alive. i have no idea how it got in here and i hope to kill it if it is someone i knew in a past life. bastard.

ok. i think people are missing the point.

barbie queue and fried chicken and clam bakes and such were seasonal events that brought people together. people didn't always have that much oil to use, or meat to roast, or food to have, so when they did, it was a communal celebration of having it at all
for all to share, hunters, gatherers, and firestarters alike.
That's why so much time was spent and such rituals and intricacies are involved.
To harken back to tradition is to show respect for that which came before, allowing us to have now.

History is long and complicated, but whatever happened before, for good or ill, has let us have now.

me3dia: that is what i thought because i do think i understand you.
dodgy: don't worry, dear heart, you have bigger fish to fry.
taz: who loves ya, baby? seriously. i hope you do know that.

now if people could just byo(x)
[bring your own whatever]
let us eat and win the lottery

i have to see my mother in less than an hour and my bra is warped

posted by ethylene 18 October | 13:26

My god, dano, does the second guy have an amputation fetish too?

posted by dame 18 October | 13:27

i have to see my mother in less than an hour and my bra is warped

There's one statement I hope never crosses my lips or typing fingers in this lifetime.

posted by peacay 18 October | 13:30

With your permission, ethylene, I'd like to march into my boss' office right now and tell him, "I have to see my mother in less than an hour and my bra is warped."

Best thing I've read all day. Thanks.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 13:30

I believe those are perfectly intact flippers.

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 13:33

It's the way the thighs taper off into flippers. Very amputee.

posted by dame 18 October | 13:37

Flippers?

BRRRRAAAAWK!!!
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 13:38

Freaks!

posted by kmellis 18 October | 13:39

it's all yours, hugh. put it to music or where the sun can apparently shine.
i'm really sorry to put this here--
so i'm not gonna
instead i'll say:
you're all pretty/ damned/ amusing

and i hope to see you all later

posted by ethylene 18 October | 13:47

I'll take damned for 1000, ethylene.

Here's hoping your bra wefts.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 13:52

The analogue is that they have a right to be insufferably cutesy.

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by quonsar 18 October | 14:01

qutesar!

posted by Divine_Wino 18 October | 14:05

Ipecac, stat!

posted by dame 18 October | 14:12

Okay, off with the cute.

Ethylene, you keep accusing me-of what, I am not sure as it makes no sense at all to me. I am bipolar and what you write sounds like what I would write if out of meds and in a slightly paranoid state. You keep saying we are "all right" but pardon me if I don't believe you. If you want to purposefully misunderstand me go ahead but leave me out of it because I don't want to hear it.

I cannot believe I am having to be defensive about my desire for all of us to be nice to each other.

Dame, you sound so incredibly defensive yourself. It pisses me off simply because I don't see the need to be that way here. Now the truth is I don't read every thread here so perhaps you have reasons to comment in this manner that I am not aware of, but my point is that when I see you have commented I cringe because I am expecting you to take a whap at someone.

I am also pissed at the implication that I was ignorant about racism simply because I like the taste of hash browns (yes, simplistic, but you get my drift.) There is a nicer way to say, "Hey wait a minute, this is what I associate this with, can we talk?" To me, the thread hijack was just mean. I am not saying we can never talk about racism, because I do believe such talk is vitally important, but I do not appreciate feeling like the enemy when I have done nothing I know of to deserve it. If there is a problem, talk to me, but please do not treat me like a jerk until you are sure I am one.

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 14:24

Ipecac, stat!

Where were you in the Mike Patton thread?

posted by bugbread 18 October | 14:35

Boy, I'm late...
I didn't know ethylene was a female.
Anything else I missed? Keef and dame still hate each other (in some sort of Hatfield/McCoy feud from time immemorial)? Jon still think the world's problems can be solved with can beer and Dictators tapes? (By the way, the only one I ever had by them was "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke." and that tape died years ago. Where should I start in finding stuff from them? What should I look for? Should I even buy "Fuck 'em" again if I can find it? I don't remember liking Handsome Dick's solo stuff that much...)

posted by klangklangston 18 October | 14:55

Dame, I'm with you. But you gotta get in the swing of the new victimspeak. When other peoples mere existence imposes cruel and unusual suffering, you have to bully them into line with saccarine nicey-nicey talk.

Buy them a drink. Get them loose in the knees. And then kick the shit out of them in the hallway on the way to the bathroom. Then carry them back into the bar, just ooozing sympathy for their terrible accident.

*smiles brightly and goes to sit next to frisbeegirl*

posted by warbaby 18 October | 15:03

Oh, and not that it will do any good, but I always associate Wafflehouse with racism, underage waitresses hitting on me, and it being the only place I've ever seen counterfiet bills being passed.

posted by klangklangston 18 October | 15:13

*wedges in between warbaby and Fris, looks for booze*

posted by Specklet 18 October | 15:33

Where should I start in finding stuff from them?

Go Girl Crazy and Blood Brothers are the essential. DFFD the reunion album has the immortal "Pussy & Money," and is pretty good as reunion records go.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 15:34

Bunnyfire:

(1) I wasn't even talking to you in that thread. If I had been, I would have said, "That sounds disgusting," because I would have been talking about hash browns.

(2) If you want to get mad at someone for bringing up racism, talk to jon or matteo. That conversation was already there, and I pointed out a few facts that jon was missing. If it hadn't've been there already, I probably wouldn't have said anything. I would have just thought, "Wow, it's weird that some people can just think hash browns when I think racism" and moved on.

(3) I didn't treat you like a jerk before (I don't think I've ever even addressed you before), but I am pretty sure you are one. Not the least because you are losing it on me because you didn't like what eth said, as far as I can see.

posted by dame 18 October | 15:36

The bar I go to for football watching confuses hashbrowns with home fries on their menu. And I always forget that. So I don't order their yummy brunch things. Then I see someone else's order with delicious home fries and get brunch envy.

posted by gaspode 18 October | 15:41

"Wow, it's weird that some people can just think hash browns when I think racism" and moved on.

I know you didn't intend it that way, but that sentence comes out sounding incredibly self-congratulatory and martyrish-"These people aren't as morally attuned as me. So sad." Do that enough and people will start to think you're gonna find some bone to pick with absolutely everything, and that's gets tedious quick.

I know you, so I know you're not really like that, some other folks might need to suss that out for themselves.

posted by jonmc 18 October | 15:44

jon, you're not going to re-hash that argument again are you?

Heh heh, see what I did there? Hash. Geddit? Gosh, I'm funny.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 16:00

By the way I've only had two pints and it wasn't nearly enough.

posted by dodgygeezer 18 October | 16:01

Mmmm. Hash. [They've given me a number, and taken away my name.]

I wanna get a beer this week. When do we all meet at the south pole?

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 16:03

*opens bottle of 151 rum and throws the cap away*

posted by warbaby 18 October | 16:03

Actually, dame, I am more nonplussed at ethylene. I don't like YOUR usual posting tone because it seems unnecessarily nasty. Whether or NOT it was directed to me.

And part of it may be I consider jonmc a buddy and hate it when someone is rude to him.

Dang it, now i am being blunt with you and you will take it as nastiness, and that I am a jerk.

Has it occured to you that I can think you are just fine but still think your posting is occasionally unnecessarily abrupt?

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 16:13

The bar I go to for football watching

You go to a bar specifically to watch football!?

*checks frapper map to make sure it's the right kinda football*
* "YES!" *
*rushes back to makeup sex thread*

posted by danostuporstar 18 October | 16:26

Hm, bunnyfire, I have lots of replies to you. But they aren't allowed on MetaChat. And on that note, perhaps this thread with its ups, downs and retards should finally die.

posted by dame 18 October | 16:29

*sits on specklet's knee and nibbles frizbee's pistachios*

posted by urbanwhaleshark 18 October | 16:30

And on that note, perhaps this thread with its ups, downs and retards should finally die.

No, you should whine some more about how awful the world is and how horrible other people are and how frustrated and angry you're feeling today. Because without that, MetaChat just isn't MetaChat, and the thought of it makes you sad.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 16:41

dame, there's always email. Mine's in the profile.

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 16:41

What a dick.

posted by Hugh Janus 18 October | 16:52

Damn. I'm going home.

posted by tr33hggr 18 October | 17:02

1 pound sausage
1.75 C. flour
8oz shredded cheese
1 t. worchestershire sauce

Knead all of that together and put T. sized globs of it onto a cookie sheet and cook in an over at 4 and a quarter for ten minutes or so.

Dip in ranch sauce.

posted by sciurus 18 October | 17:05

Wow. That sounds really good. I'm frightened.

posted by kmellis 18 October | 17:06

ok, just got back but more about that somewhere else-- *sheesh* can't leave you guys alone for a minute--

*ahem*
I hope to be as simple and clear as I can be in my overtired state.

I am bipolar and what you write sounds like what I would write if out of meds and in a slightly paranoid state.

Likewise. That is to say, if I wrote like you, people would be very worried about me.
That is not a snark. It is simply the truth.

You keep saying we are "all right" but pardon me if I don't believe you.

That is your perogative. I don't try to push beliefs on people, but it does seem that it would make it far more unpleasant and stressful, which is what I thought you had expressed you were trying to avoid.

--go ahead but leave me out of it because I don't want to hear it.

I said something to the same effect, which was "speak for yourself."

I am also pissed at the implication--

There was no implication. I tried to be straightforward.
You made assumptions. Everyone made assumptions. Everybody makes assumptions.

To me, the thread hijack was just mean.

To me, it did not. I was waiting for it. Not a "hijack", so much as that the issue would arise.

Why wouldn't you feel welcome here?

I was seeing people censor themselves. I was censoring myself. I did not feel comfortable the way I had before and was wondering if the place was changing, and that it was no longer agreed people could freely express themselves.
After assurances that I could, I did. This made me feel much more comfortable, not so much because I had a problem with anyone, so much as I was free to do so.
You, too, have been free to express yourself, and I hope you feel better for it, because if you chose to squelch your negative feelings or choose to feel you are being persecuted or being made an enemy, that is your right, but doesn't seem to me to add to the general well being.
I hope for the sake of the general well being that you do not carry hostile feelings for anyone and give everyone a chance, maybe two.
Likewise for you all.
Call me crazy.

and, oh, Hugh: god bless us everyone.

*phew!*
ok, as some of you may know, i gotta be up for another three hours for my date with the Gilmore Girls, so if i can eek out the words, i may tell you a story of the lottery ticket i just got. it ain't gonna win. and if it does, i'd end up splitting it 13 thousand ways--

Buy tickets for saturday.
and someone proofread this for me. i need to eat something.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 17:19

GG is on twice a day where I am. Gotta be early or gotta be late.

Yeah, this place has a few MoFi vibes, but it's not quite yet time for the Happy Joy Helmet.

posted by dreamsign 18 October | 18:13

Turtle meat is good.

Someone hold me. I'm scared.

posted by terrapin 18 October | 19:25

oi, no slagging the monkeys!
and someone hug the deadhead
zombies and all
good god, dame, slap me--
zzzzz

posted by ethylene 18 October | 19:33

My husband LOOOOVES the gilmore girls.

That recipe is for sausage balls. We usually use Bisquick for it tho. It is the awesomest awesome you ever had. Freeze some and reheat for breakfast if-and I mean IF there are extras.

(oh, and I went to spin class and worked every stinking bit of agression and crankiness out of my poor tired body and am now fit for human company. My apologies for earlier, and I love you all. *swack*)

posted by bunnyfire 18 October | 20:31

Kmellis, go fuck yourself with barbed-wire covered bamboo you sorry waste of air and protein.
Now, that is gold. I wish I didn't have the memory of a goldfish so I could remeber it and use it on someone else.

The rest of you take life:

1. way too seriously
b. not seriously enough
4. by the horns when you should be grabbing the other end
x. what was the question again?

Oh, yeah - dame - I hereby grant you the right to be as grumpy as you want. God knows we all need to be grumpy from time to time and, if there has to be rules, the only one we should have is that we all have the right to be however the fuck we want - the mob will enforce the apprpriate level of groupthink if needed.

posted by dg 18 October | 21:13

alright--this thread makes me far far more unhappy than dame was feeling at the beginning.

we all have tones, and we all have feelings, and how we come off isn't always how we really are--can't we all just try to get along?
/rodney king

posted by amberglow 18 October | 22:16

18 October 2005