MetaChat - A Statement of Porpoise... and a request.

MetaChat is an informal place for MeFites to touch base and post, discuss and chatter about topics that may not belong on MetaFilter. Questions? Check the FAQ. Please note: This is important.

17 October 2005

A Statement of Porpoise... and a request. Metachat was created as a place for chat and silliness and friendly banter... Very specifically, Metachat was created for indulging in precisely the sort of play that Metafilter was not created for.→[More:]

So, I don't see it as being a place that can be described as "better" or "worse" than MeFi, because it's like saying that the refrigerator is better or worse than the stove: they are both in the kitchen, but the user is going to be very disappointed if he tries to bake cookies in the frig or make ice on the stove. They are different because they are meant to be different.

I mention this because I've seen some disparaging remarks about mecha that seem to me along the line of someone pointing and sneering at a person wearing a clown nose and saying "you look silly because your nose is big and round and red". In other words, "Duh!"

But then I realize that if Metachat people are constantly making comparisons at MeFi, then other people are naturally going to start saying stuff like OMFG, did you see that nose!!! Our noses are much smaller and better!!!!. People will probably continue to make comments like this anyway, but we don't need to be instigators.

So, let's not. It doesn't make sense, and we aren't in competition. At all. We don't want to recruit, we don't need to defend our turf, and if we are happy doing what we do here, that should be the alpha and omega. There's no reason to try to make enemies, and we have no point to prove.

post by: taz at: 05:55 | 83 comments

Also, here's the porpoise:

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by taz 17 October | 05:56

I like the refrigerator better because that's where we keep the ice cream.

Oh, and I would like to announce we are ALL special little flowers.

posted by bunnyfire 17 October | 07:00

I have pretty ears

posted by flopsy 17 October | 07:23

but I don't want to be a special little flower

I come here to pretend I'm not an American outcast... but then I'm not a morning person, so there's not anyone around when I am here...

and I have a short attention span, so I don't know what's going on in the conversations...

So, maybe I'm "special" but not a friggin' flower. That kind of talk gives me flashbacks to films in elementary school with singing fallopian tubes and Stepford females proclaiming womanhood.

posted by MightyNez 17 October | 07:30

That comment only looked random. But you can be a special something else if you like. We aims to please!

posted by bunnyfire 17 October | 07:55

Oh, and I would like to announce we are ALL special little flowers.

posted by shmegegge 17 October | 08:08

SORRY fucked that up.

Oh, and I would like to announce we are ALL special little ~~flowers~~ flavors.

posted by shmegegge 17 October | 08:09

It's hard work unsuiting from the kevlar coated armor piercing bullet protection jumpsuit into the hawaiian shirt and grasskirt combo with the halved coconut cocktail and little pink umbrella.

posted by peacay 17 October | 08:20

As long as this site's identity is defined by MetaFilter, it is doomed to comparison. This is something the MonkeyFilter community has also had to contend with, and it seems like they've finally been able to stop thinking of themselves as a MeFi spinoff, but it took them a while to get there.

posted by briank 17 October | 08:33

This place has nothing to do with meffy.

At least, I hope not.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 08:50

Isn't that sort of like the cast of ARCHIE BUNKER'S PLACE wondering why everyone compares them to ALL IN THE FAMILY?

I understand your concern, and agree with the sentiment, but since so many of the residents here used to live at the MetaFilter apartments (or still have a second place there) there's going to be comparisons. In a short period of time MeCha has developed a distinct personality and vibe that will continue to grow.

Did that porpoise drop his John 3:16 sign?

posted by Slack-a-gogo 17 October | 08:52

*pees all around the perimeter of his turf*

/Farley Mowat

posted by shane 17 October | 08:54

*hugs taz*

posted by matteo 17 October | 09:00

This place has nothing to do with meffy.

At least, I hope not.

Huh?

MetaChat is an informal place for MeFites to touch base and post, discuss and chatter about topics that may not belong on MetaFilter

posted by kmellis 17 October | 09:01

What briank said.

posted by terrapin 17 October | 09:05

And kmellis is right. you may need to change the template now, taz.

posted by terrapin 17 October | 09:06

I like having enemies! It gives me a purpose in life.

But I still love specklet, taz and frisbeegirl.

And frisbeegirl and specklet and taz.

And taz and frisbeegirl and specklet.

and the rest of you guys, too.

Except p&c - see first line.

posted by warbaby 17 October | 09:13

heh.

Okay, maybe I made things needlessly complicated. Let's just put it this way, if you ever feel like trash-talking mecha-vs.-mefi stuff at MeFi, here's the rule:

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by taz 17 October | 09:31

If you'd gone horizontal scrolling, you wouldn't'a had to worry about this!

posted by stavrosthewonderchicken 17 October | 09:45

Fair enough you cute wittle bunny you.

posted by omiewise 17 October | 09:46

You're right, kmellis. I should have read that before I signed up. I guess I don't belong.

That is what you're saying, right?

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 09:53

Oh, and I would like to announce we are ALL special little flowers.

I'm not. I'm a weed. or possibly a fungus.

posted by jonmc 17 October | 09:57

Hugh! Don't you worry - mecha just wouldn't be mecha without its Hugh Janus.

posted by taz 17 October | 10:00

but since so many of the residents here used to live at the MetaFilter apartments

Those are down the block from the Fark Projects, right?

posted by jonmc 17 October | 10:01

I agree taz.
We should stop winding metafilter up. This is a different place, and we have a different focus.
In the past, I have had a pop at metafilter for not being metachat, but there's no excuse for it really. As amusing as it is to bounce up and down in the grey shouting "Look at my big red nose!!", it's not going to serve any real purpose.

From now on, I'll curb all attempts to show my new home off. It is not the metachat way.
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by seanyboy 17 October | 10:07

That is what you're saying, right?

Sure. Whatever.

posted by kmellis 17 October | 10:08

Par for the course.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 10:11

Thanks warbaby, and back at you!

More than just the trash talking has been the combination of that and the transference of petty bickering that I associate with MeFi. In that sense, MeCha has lost a bit of its coziness, especially over the course of the last week. But such is life and the honeymoon ends sooner or later, or so I've been told.

The upside is that it serves as an encouragement to step away from the computer more often. Last night and this morning, for example, I got to see the most gorgeous Hunter's Moon rise and set and caught the eclipse, too. Not a bad compromise.

posted by Frisbee Girl 17 October | 10:12

Those are down the block from the Fark Projects, right?

ooh. Maybe we should start selling meta real estate, like those online mpgs? MeFi Heights, MetaFilter Apartments (singles only), Metachat Island, Mesa MoFi... We could all become metamillionaires.

posted by taz 17 October | 10:12

I'm definitely going for the island.

posted by Frisbee Girl 17 October | 10:17

Where is LeeJay?

posted by gaspode 17 October | 10:21

I've been wondering the same thing, gaspode. Has anyone been in touch?

posted by taz 17 October | 10:25

Listen, kmellis, I'm sorry I mistrust your motives. Particularly in a thread like this, about keeping the sniping and disingenuousness of the other place out of here.

I have a jerky knee when it comes to you, because I think some of your comments are written for the sole purpose of eliciting a bristling response, which justifies the kind of lost-in-the-details argument at which you excel.

I also know that I am touchy myself, and that what usually gets me is unfairness in approach or method, not disagreement in ideas. I also tend towards the didactic, and write in a manner that presents my ideas as cosmic truths (in my self-absorption, I believe my own thoughts to be pretty close).

We have gotten under one another's skin in the past, just once or twice, as far as I know. I think one of the hallmarks of meffy, certainly as Frisbe Girl points out above, is the tendency to carry bickering from one thread to another. In this case, I noticed more who the responder was than what you had to say. Like I said, I didn't trust your motives in posting.

I should have. There's no need for nastiness past its pull date. I'm sorry for not giving you the benefit of the doubt.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 10:49

I want some ice cream.

posted by goatdog 17 October | 10:57

OK you two.
GROUP HUG!

/ Piles on top of Hugh Janus and kmellis.
/ patiently waits for other people.

posted by seanyboy 17 October | 10:58

I'm not. I'm a weed. or possibly a fungus.

If we've got to be special plants I want to be a lichen.

posted by Mitheral 17 October | 10:58

*hangs back from the pile on, doomed by an awkward sense of dignity*

posted by LarryC 17 October | 11:05

Has anyone else noticed that in some threads, such as this one, the footer navigation links disappear?

posted by danostuporstar 17 October | 11:07

What, huh? It's back!?

posted by danostuporstar 17 October | 11:10

Yay, piles!

;)

dano, I see the links okay.

posted by taz 17 October | 11:10

Has anyone else noticed that in some threads, such as this one, the footer navigation links disappear?

yes. i think its some obscure CSS thing. doesn't seem to be at all consistent and frequently a reload brings them back. firefox 1.07.

posted by quonsar 17 October | 11:23

I have a similiar intermittant problem. Not just the footer though, the entire page below the sig block of the last comment disappears. Resizing the browser a tiny bit fixes it.

posted by Mitheral 17 October | 11:31

If we've got to be special plants I want to be a lichen.

Then I'm a succulent. (Ooh baby!)

posted by jrossi4r 17 October | 11:43

It's hard work unsuiting from the kevlar coated armor piercing bullet protection jumpsuit into the hawaiian shirt and grasskirt combo with the halved coconut cocktail and little pink umbrella.

Yes, but the coconut bra really suits you.

If we've got to be special plants I want to be a lichen.

≡ Click to see image ≡
bonsai!

posted by me3dia 17 October | 11:57

How do we know they're bonsai? They could just be normal sized trees in very large pots.

posted by dodgygeezer 17 October | 12:01

That's what I always wanted to know, sure it could be a giant tree that through years of careful pruning, underwatering and zen business has been made tiny OR it could just be a slackass lazy tree that couldn't be fucked to get big, chucked in a pot and sold to you... the gullible consumer. Lord knows people buy those little street turtles as pets, not as the mobile salmonella pods they actually are.

posted by Divine_Wino 17 October | 12:09

But they so cute!

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 12:11

Could we please get back on topic? We're trying to decide which filter is better.

posted by nickdanger 17 October | 12:35

Well, if you spent 8 days in the hospital with a particularly nasty salmonella infection, you wouldn't think they were so cutesy-wootsie. You'd see them as the Public Menaces they are.

posted by bunnyfire 17 October | 12:36

Bonsai always seems mean to me, like you know, when they do it to kittens and all, and I hate that, because it's mean to the kittens, just like it's mean to the trees. I think those people who do that bonsai kitten stuff are just, you know, really mean and all, and probably they don't get to be special flowers and be on mecha island, which so totally sounds like where mecha godzilla goes to hang out when he's not, like, fighting real godzilla, which reminds me, can we put Mecha Island next to Monster Island? Because it would be so cool to live next door to Mothra and the tiny little mothra women.

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by mygothlaundry 17 October | 12:37

I think there's a public menace in here somewhere.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 12:46

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by danostuporstar 17 October | 12:48

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 12:51

You go in that team
I go on this team
Divide everything
A flag or a number
Make 'em opposites
So there's a reason
Stigmatisation
Ok now we can fight
Divide everything
Just put it all flat
Justification
Ok now you can fight

It is correct and reasonable

posted by Schyler523 17 October | 13:33

Dunno, makes sense to me. "Mefi and Mecha are related, but it's silly to compare them by the same yardstick". My mom and dad are related, but it would be silly to say "My dad's better than my mom, because he has more Y chromosomes!" or "My mom's better than my dad, because she has more X chromosomes!".

They don't have to be unrelated for comparisons to be silly.

posted by bugbread 17 October | 13:36

Because it would be so cool to live next door to Mothra and the tiny little mothra women.

Except their singing would drive you insane. And don't forget about Mecha BarbraStreisand!

posted by amberglow 17 October | 13:43

Well Metachat isn't mummy or daddy. Metachat is more like the uncle you only see at weddings, who gets too drunk, tells embarassing jokes but is an amiable old cove anyway.

Either that or it's the sperm donor your mother is too ashamed to tell you about.

posted by dodgygeezer 17 October | 13:44

Are we beautiful and unique snowflakes?

The first rule of mecha is that you do not talk about... Eh, nevermind.

posted by delmoi 17 October | 13:54

metachat is:

≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by taz 17 October | 13:58

*hugs taz*
posted by matteo 17 October | 09:00

Me too.

It's hard work unsuiting from the kevlar coated armor piercing bullet protection jumpsuit into the hawaiian shirt and grasskirt combo with the halved coconut cocktail and little pink umbrella.
posted by peacay 17 October | 08:20

True, but most of us have learned, I think, how to make the transition, and that's what I love about this place.

More than just the trash talking has been the combination of that and the transference of petty bickering that I associate with MeFi. In that sense, MeCha has lost a bit of its coziness, especially over the course of the last week. But such is life and the honeymoon ends sooner or later, or so I've been told.
posted by Frisbee Girl 17 October | 10:12

Some of haven't made the transition as fluently as others. You probably know who you are. (And I will include myself as an occasional member of that group in order to avoid sounding holier-than-thou.) You're entitled to speak your minds, of course. You should know, though, that some of us -- I'm assuming the Frisbee and I aren't the only ones -- are uncomfortable with the bickering. Can you factor that in when you're deciding whether that snotty comeback is worth it?

Where is LeeJay?
posted by gaspode 17 October | 10:21

Where the hell is LeeJay, anyway? LeeJay, come back!

If we've got to be special plants I want to be a lichen.
posted by Mitheral 17 October | 10:58

I want to be one of those cute little cacti that they graft pretty flowers onto. 'Cause that would fit pretty well.

bonsai!
posted by me3dia 17 October | 11:57

One of the (many) major arguments my ex and I had were about bonsais. She didn't want one in the house because she had once read a poem about how trimming bonsais' roots was like binding the feet of chinese women. So when my brother gave me one as a gift, it was a problem.

*shivers at the flashback*

I think those people who do that bonsai kitten stuff are just, you know, really mean and all, and probably they don't get to be special flowers and be on mecha island...
posted by mygothlaundry 17 October | 12:37

MGL, it's okay -- those kittens are bred for bonsai and don't know any better.

"Sixth grade girls! Sixth grade girls! No, sixth grade girls!!"

This is what one of the teachers at the elementary school behind my house is currently yelling.

Also, for the record, I am on cold medicine.

posted by mudpuppie 17 October | 14:41

I'm guessing that the transfer of bickering from MeFi to MeCha has come from the increasing disconnect between them. That is, at first, most people here were also very active on MeFi, so if a bitchfest showed up in the grey, they posted their bitching in the grey. Now we have more folks who've withdrawn from MeFi, so instead of posting the bitching there, they post it here.

That's just a guess, though.

posted by bugbread 17 October | 14:45

I think you're right, bugbread. Also, there are those (I have no idea how many of us there are) who don't use meffy and thus offer the full range of feelings here. I think most mechanisms offload strife there and breathe deep here. I don't give myself the offload option, so sometimes my eponymous giant asshole gets the better of me.

I try not to downtalk meffy, because I reject what I once was there, and what it once was to me. I don't miss it, but I'm sure if I vented there, I would be less prickly on Metachat. Here, I just need to breathe more deeply, and be more patient with myself.

Oh, and for the special plants question, my answer goes hand-in-hand with my user number.

posted by Hugh Janus 17 October | 14:56

I have not read the above comments. Things just got too Mefi. I stopped reading Mefi and I stop reading post here as soon as Mefi comes up. All I can add is the more Mefi bleeds into the Mecha pool the less appealing I find it.

posted by arse_hat 17 October | 14:59

I wanna be a special and unique snowflake, not a stupid plant!

*pout*

posted by deborah 17 October | 15:03

Arse_hat, executive summary: The more MeCha tries to avoid MeFi itself, the more MeCha becomes like MeFi.

---

Now, what would be sweet (though destined to be a big useless failure...ah, a boy can dream, can't he?) is to set up a third Mefi-related site, expressly for snark. As it is, people wanted to chat, so some nice folks set up MetaChat, and now we can chat outside of MeFi to our heart's content. Now we've got people wanting to snark. If we had a snark/anger site, then in my mind's eye of perpetual kittens and summer breezes, people would go to MeFi to post/read good links and engage in good discussion, come to MeCha for good conversation and pleasantry, and go to MeHate for flaming, snarking, trolling, insulting, and political discussion.

And in my mind's eye, someone would bring me some cotton candy.

posted by bugbread 17 October | 15:06

Sixth grade girls!

*bends, picks ducat, watches frilly panties run*

posted by quonsar 17 October | 15:19

"is to set up a third Mefi-related site, expressly for snark" I thought that was called metatalk?

posted by arse_hat 17 October | 15:27

bugbread, i think a snark thread will do for now.

posted by mcgraw 17 October | 15:29

Speaking of cotton candy, the final Jeopardy! question the other night mentioned some names cotton candy is known by in other parts of the world. Two of the best were fairy floss* and sugar wool.

*no, nothing to do with tooth or butt floss

posted by iconomy 17 October | 15:29

"In the United Kingdom and Australia, it is called candy floss. In France it is called barbe a papa, or "papa’s beard." In Germany, it is known as zuckerwoole, or "sugar wool."

posted by iconomy 17 October | 15:31

Fairy floss in Oz actually iconomy.

posted by peacay 17 October | 15:33

I'm very charmed by that.

posted by iconomy 17 October | 15:35

In Greece, it's called "Old Woman's Hair".

posted by taz 17 October | 16:58

zuckerwoole it haters!

posted by Divine_Wino 17 October | 17:01

Wurstversteckenspiel.

Or something like that....

posted by warbaby 17 October | 22:07

Hugh, I appreciate greatly your follow-up comment. As to your suspicions about me, I'm not that machiavellian. Sometimes I wish I were, but I'm not. 90% of the time, if not more, if I post a provocative comment, it's because I'm genuinely annoyed (and rash), not coldly calculating.

posted by kmellis 17 October | 22:59

I've seen some disparaging remarks about mecha

After our email exchange, taz, I'm pretty confident that you are referring to one of mine, among others, which I reiterate was not meant to be disparaging, and just heavily represents my personal preferences for what kinds of sites I'm more interested in. I'm sorry it seemed to strike such a personal chord.

It's easy to grok that MeCha is not trying to be MeFi - absolutely. And I think I can say, without it being disparaging, that while many find this site more pleasing, I, myself, find the Other Site more compelling. No judgment. Pleasing is good, and so is compelling. We don't all open our browsers hoping to be pleased, and we are all compelled by different things. I personally find filtering the web a more compelling mission than being silly, though certainly more exasperating. Perhaps I'm not a very silly guy, or I'm only silly on weekends, or silly only during sex on weekends, or during sex with animals on weekends. And even then - maybe only goats. Who knows?

I'm not bitter on MeCha, I just don't have much of a sweet tooth. I accept that the mission here is to be silly. I just am not that interested in such a mission. It certainly provides an obviously much needed counterpoint, though, for those who are.

posted by scarabic 18 October | 00:48

scarabic: at different points, I did call for your attendance in the mistaken thought that you may like to expose a more human side to youself, but also because I have seen you logically dissemble an argument so its elements could be clarified and discussed. I assumed you might like to do it about things other that nitpicking in metatalk.
Being wrong is not a new sensation.

posted by ethylene 18 October | 00:59

Scarabic, I did take your comment as a weird sort of snideness, though I believe you when you say it wasn't meant that way... But it wasn't your comment specifically. I had been thinking of making this post or something similar earlier, because of many comments made by many people both here and there.

posted by taz 18 October | 01:21

hey, when i thought two mechas were getting married this month, it might be to each other. wrong again

posted by ethylene 18 October | 03:15

I accept that the mission here is to be silly.

I don't think that's the mission at all, really. Part of the charm is that there isn't any mission. There aren't any guidelines here, and a lot of people gravitate towards being silly because of that. It's certainly not a prerequisite though.

posted by iconomy 18 October | 10:40

taz, i hope you know i mean nothing against you or what you mean.
and i always wanted to be auntie mame
*sigh*
it's just that marrying rich part--
*must make self--*

posted by ethylene 18 October | 11:04

iconomy - Fairy Floss in Aus, Candy Floss in New Zealand (if memory serves).

taz, I have got the same impression as you that many (most?) on MeFi look down on MeCha as an inferior place and have had to bite my tongue on a few occasions to avoid getting into a turf slanging match. I tend to be defensive of things I like and I need to curb that because, for someone to seriously compare two community Web sites and say one is better or worse is just sad.

I also get that "missing the bottom part of the page" thing, but reloading usually fixes it - it is very inconsistent and often includes everything from the comment box down. Win XP or 2000/Firefox 1.06.

posted by dg 18 October | 17:59

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