MetaChat - Presidential Address thread

Just in case anyone's emotionally moved.

moved? in the bowels, perhaps?

posted by jonmc 28 June | 20:19

Two things so far that caught my ear:

- [the Iraq insurgency] "are citizens of the same philosophy" [as the people who orchestrated the 9/11 events]
Linking the words Bahgdad and September 11th with the word citizens seems like a great way to get the average American to think that Iraq was directly responsible for the WTC attacks.

- "Third World War"
Was that meant to be taken as third-world war, or third World War?

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:22

smirk smirk

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:23

i really can't decide if he's repeating a speech from 2003 or 2004, or is it one of his father's? not one new thing at all.

he looks terrible : >

and fuck him for the 9/11 references. he really should be struck by lightning.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:25

the only good thing about this speech is that there aren't soldiers sitting behind him, as i thought it would be.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:26

Iraq is like 1776, the Civil War, and WW2 all rolled in one?

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:26

americasupportsyou.mil

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:28

I wonder if that's the first time a President has ever mentioned a URL in a speech.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:28

the only good thing about this speech is that there aren't soldiers sitting behind him, as i thought it would be.

I have a feeling that if they did, the soldiers would be flipping him off behind his back, since he's sending them off to die.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 20:28

he's shopping for new recruits, tasty

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:29

I liked how the commentator at the beginning had to explain why there was no applause when Bush took the stage.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:29

Fortunately, my tomatoes began ripening about 10 days ago. I now have a few that are squishy. The TV, needless to say, is bearing the brunt of the over-ripe fruit.

posted by mudpuppie 28 June | 20:30

should we all send messages apologizing for Bush lying them into that mess?

so that's it? a website rollout?

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:30

"We'll stand down when the Iraqis stand up." Great. So now they troops are officially there indefinitely.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:32

i'm on MSNBC--someone else take CNN and someone with a strong stomach take FOX.

Newsweek guy on saying he didn't sell. and that continuing to connect 9/11 and Iraq isn't selling.

arsnc, we're building massive permanent bases there--we're never leaving as long as there's oil in the ground.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:33

They're repeating the "12 years" thing a lot and wondering why Bush doesn't explicitly come out with direct words about that.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:34

and meanwhile, the terrorists themselves go merrily on...

GW, your biggest sin is your incompetence and opportunism in the face of a crisis.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 20:35

I'm on FOX. "one of the best speeches he's ever made"

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:36

YEA NANCY!!!! paraphrased: "It's terrible of the President to bring up 9/11 so much when he knows that there is no connection between that and Iraq" (regular NBC)

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:37

they always say that, mr.marx--it's cute of them, isn't it?

I think "stay the course" was the message, no? Just like daddy. ; >

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:38

"truth and trust; the American people must be levelled with"

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:39

cool, arsnc--they're not that bold on msnbc at all.

5 mentions of 9/11, Bowtie boy says. Matthews is in a Baptist Church somewhere, "are we winning?"

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:40

The woman they were interviewing is the House Democratic Leader, Nancy Pelosi.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:43

amberglow: I know! that's why FOX News is my fav channel.
no seriously I only watch it cause the euro CNN just went back to regular news right after the speech. some apparently see non-news for what they are.

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:44

The head of the Family Research Council--Tony Perkins--a slimy guy, is hitting the GOP talking points, but they're all old--from 2002 i think.

she's a bad speaker, but ok otherwise. Boxer's a million times better.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:44

another Christian woman is blaming the media--we don't have patience anymore because of the instant media--comparing it to WW2--the imbecile.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:46

(the real thing that no one will ever say is that we really hate losers, and Bush is losing the war fast)

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:46

yes, five 9/11 plus one "new york, washington and pennsylvania". so I made it six. (I counted, sorry)

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:47

Well, my boyfriend has sequestered the TV for purposes of watching bad 80s films. He did me the courtesy of sitting through more political stuff than he usually does, and acted suitably outraged at the appropriate moments...so I can't argue too much.

Suppose I'll just wait for the Daily Show commentary tomorrow.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:48

ahh--they're saying now that the Pentagon is saying it's classified how many trained Iraqi forces there are!!!

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:49

the church people think that if we back out now, they win.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:50

amberglow, hasn't that been their stance for a while now? the whole "if such-n-such, the terrorists have won" meme?

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:52

mr.marx, did you ever see the flash thing online that was only all the "September 11th"s from the entire GOP convention? amazing.

yup...but most of America thinks it was a mistake. And most of America thinks Bush lied to get us to go.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:53

the church people think that if we back out now, they win.

"the church people?" amberglow, no offense, but try not to lump a very large and diverse group of people under one banner. You don't like it when it's done to you, right?

posted by jonmc 28 June | 20:53

it's 3 military wives that are members of this congregation talking--no coalition forces ever fight with their husbands. One said her husband has said they were told 6 years.

Matthews is broadcasting from inside a Church, jon. chill.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:56

from the comments on atrios:

"Did anyone catch ABC News spilling the fact that the "polite" applause was begun by a member of the White House Advance Team? Priceless!"

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 20:56

a Baptist church in Nashville.

mr.marx : >

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:57

I guess if you've got a bunch of at-attention soldiers in a room, it might take a subtle nudge to let them know it's okay to start applauding.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 20:58

Harry Reid's response: "Tonight's address offered the President an excellent opportunity to level with the American people about the current situation in Iraq, put forth a path for success, and provide the means to assess our progress. Unfortunately he fell short on all counts.

"There is a growing feeling among the American people that the President's Iraq policy is adrift, disconnected from the reality on the ground and in need of major mid-course corrections. "Staying the course," as the President advocates, is neither sustainable nor likely to lead to the success we all seek.

"The President's numerous references to September 11th did not provide a way forward in Iraq, they only served to remind the American people that our most dangerous enemy, namely Osama bin Laden, is still on the loose and Al Qaeda remains capable of doing this nation great harm nearly four years after it attacked America. ...

posted by amberglow 28 June | 20:58

Matthews is broadcasting from inside a Church, jon. chill.

I'm beyond chilled, my freind. I'm just making a point; that if we can get some of the "church people," on our side on this issue (and that's not an impossibility, since a lot of their kids are doing the dying), we can maybe help turn this disaster around. Take it how ever you want.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 20:58

heh, even FOX reported the applause thing now. "it was not our fine troops breaking the rules, it was Bush staffers" (paraphrase)

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 21:00

mr. marx - does that mean there wasn't supposed to be any applause at all? I know they explained why there wasn't at the beginning...

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 21:01

And i'm telling you they ALL applauded when the person made that statement. What are they called? They're sitting in a church and they belong to that congregation, and they're on tv. jeez.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:02

maybe you should turn on MSNBC and you'll see the broadcast, jon.

MSNBC hasn't mentioned the applause thing at all.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:03

amberglow, thanks for posting the Harry Reid thing.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 21:03

"Friend", jon, friend.

You can remember it because it ends with "end". It's as easy as that.

posted by interrobang 28 June | 21:04

that's ONE church. Do not judge an entire group by the actions of a small sample.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 21:04

AH: afaik there weren't supposed to be any mid-speech. apparently they had a pep squad in before the speech to make the soldiers get there woo-ha's out of the system.

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 21:05

no one's doing that jon--i'm talking about the people on tv.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:07

ahhhh, so the comment by the NBC guy about having expected a pep rally and instead getting a "real" address was just slightly off then.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 21:07

what are they called? church folk? churchgoers? what's the right word for members of a specific congregation when they're on tv talking, with all their co-members with them?

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:08

what are they called? church folk? churchgoers?

I'm not talking about finding the correct word, but put it this way, how would you feel if it was a crowd of gay people applauding and somebody said "the gays," think so-and-so? It's just counterproductive.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 21:11

"the congregation being interviewed"? I dunno. I didn't have a problem with it, but that might have made the comment clearer for jonmc.

on preview: girls, girls, you're both pretty.

posted by ArsncHeart 28 June | 21:12

if it was a building full of gay people on tv talking, the "gay people" would be fine.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:14

fair enough, arsncHeart. I know amberglow's not a bad guy. It just sounded like he was implying that all religious people are thrilled about this fucking war, and this is my way of letting him know he's giving the wrong impression.

posted by jonmc 28 June | 21:16

i wasn't giving the wrong impression--every single other person in this thread knew what i was talking about--i made it clear that the show was inside a church.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:17

I thought it was a very erudite, thoughtful, sincere and earnest speech. Bush really made some good points and won me over to some of his excellent ideas. Very moving.

posted by loquacious 28 June | 21:22

ooo, they're not liking that there are 2 muslim women talking there now.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:23

And is it just me, or is the National Anthem and related state music sounding more and more like bad circus music?

Send in the clowns.

posted by loquacious 28 June | 21:26

They aren't there already?

posted by mr.marx 28 June | 21:28

Well, not really.

Each time I watch this sort of painful national obfuscation, I keep wishing and praying that scary Killer Klowns from Outer Space will suddenly appear in a puff of smoke and confetti and just start eating people left and right like it was an all you can eat buffet. That or scary Martians like in Mars Attacks.

STU-PID HU-MONS. YOU ARE MERELY MADE OF MEAT. AND MEAT IS FOR SNACK-ING. YOUR HUMOROUS ILLUSIONS OF SECURITY MEAN NO-THING TO CTHULHU, PUNY MEAT-SNACKS. PREPARE TO BE MUNCHED.

posted by loquacious 28 June | 21:35

Morbo, is that you? Aren't you full after eating Free Waterfall Jr.?

posted by jonmc 28 June | 21:39

VA Admits to 103,000 GWOT Casualties

loquacious, would they eat all of us or just some of us? and would the rest of us be slaves, snacks, or free?

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:40

Was the Bad Man making noise with the hole in his face again?

posted by puddinghead 28 June | 21:42

I still can't believe he made this speech in a church. Is there a precedent for this?

posted by maryh 28 June | 21:50

he didn't. he spoke at Fort Bragg. : >

Chris Matthews on MSNBC has been doing his show and the speech coverage tonight inside a Church.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:54

Stephanopoulos just said on ABC that the CIA said a few weeks ago that there were no real ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda before the war, but that now Iraq is THE NUMBER ONE TRAINING GROUND for Al Qaeda worldwide. Good God. Do people realize what that means? We basically handed Al Qaeda a new headquarters. They couldn't touch that country when the dictator Hussein controlled it. Now that Bush invaded, they own it. Lovely.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 21:56

[the Iraq insurgency] "are citizens of the same philosophy" [as the people who orchestrated the 9/11 events]

I know. I mean, I'd defend my country. I guess that means I'd bomb office buildings, too. Who'd have thunk it?

posted by dreamsign 28 June | 22:11

Compare and contrast: Defence Science Board report to the Pentagon, November, 2004: The Pentagon has admitted that the war on terror and the invasion and occupation of Iraq have increased support for al-Qaeda, made ordinary Muslims hate the US and caused a global backlash against America because of the "self-serving hypocrisy" of George W Bush's administration over the Middle East. ...

of course, dreamsign--the whole world knows that, except Bush (or he's lying again)--everyone would defend their country from invaders and occupiers.

posted by amberglow 28 June | 22:23

I just want to say that I'm so pleased that there isn't a sign of this dung-bomb on the Mefi front page ... just same-sex marriage, all the time.

posted by anastasiav 28 June | 23:05

I smell policy shift by Labor Day. Dunno which direction, cause they are crazy AND stupid, but I'll put my money on a change in course after the Iraq constitution goes keflooey. Bush is treading water and unsure of his direction. Heh. The bastard.

posted by warbaby 28 June | 23:30

take the cnn poll: Which word best describes President Bush's speech?

(but nauseated isn't one of the choices) ; >

posted by amberglow 28 June | 23:34

Amazing poll. Not quite as naked as
Which word best describes the President?
[ ] Hero
[ ] Savior
But then, it's CNN, not Fox, so it's just two out of three incontrovertably supportive, and the third merely ambiguous.

posted by George_Spiggott 28 June | 23:40

He didn't forget Poland.

posted by Cryptical Envelopment 28 June | 23:54

CNN poll-- So far it's 78% for "worrying". If one of the options was "horseshit" I bet that percentage would be even higher...

posted by maryh 29 June | 00:17

Which word best describes President Bush's speech?

[ ] lies
[ ] bullshit
[ ] flailing
[ ] rerun
[ ] ...

posted by amberglow 29 June | 00:21

79%

posted by loquacious 29 June | 00:25

And i'm telling you they ALL applauded when the person made that statement. What are they called?

The choir.

posted by dreamsign 29 June | 01:40

the RudePundit knew it all in advance, again...

Let us say that you're a guy who' datin' a woman who's totally into stuffed animals. She's got the Care Bears and their goddamn cousins. She's got bunnies, kitties, Build-a-friggin' Bears of every shape and size and costume. You thank Christ that she missed the whole Beanie Baby thing, but, c'mon, how many Gunds does one human being need? And one day she walks into her bedroom in her apartment and catches you fuckin' one of them. That's right. You're balls deep in Funshine Bear and you just didn't expect her home. It's bad enough that you're in her place when she didn't invite her. But now she's gotta deal with the sight of you, pants off, thrusting your cock into a smilin' yellow bear.
(...)
Seriously, and, c'mon, really, what the fuck can Bush say tonight that's gonna make everyone who's turned so viciously on him suddenly think that the war in Iraq is just jim-holy-shit-dandy. All it's gonna be is the same bullshit we've heard from Rumsfeld and McClellan and the rest: me stop terrorism, we safer, no rape rooms, the Keystone Iraqi forces are growin', we will win, loss of life bad, insurgents be foreign killahs. And, hey, lick my balls, we're stayin' the course.

posted by matteo 29 June | 10:37

If we've always had the correct number of troops (see many previous Bush statements) and "we'll stand down when the Iraqis stand up," and there are "more than 160,000 security forces trained and equipped for a variety of missions," then why haven't we withdrawn any troops?

posted by kirkaracha 29 June | 19:01

Steve Bell's "Way To Go" cartoon

posted by matteo 30 June | 13:40

28 June 2005