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The site has been almost unusable recently - it's down almost every time I visit. I know it's a hobby and I know that we shouldn't have any sense of entitlement and I know that Matt's very busy with the baby and the job and the guest columns and I know that we in Europe get the worst of it while he's asleep but it's still really bloody annoying. Huzzah for MeCha.
On preview: jon: The Quo can have that effect on you.
"All Wikimedia projects (Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks, Wikiquote, Wikisource, and Wikinews) are currently offline while hardware maintenance is carried out.
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Can someone explain what they think is happening over there? I'm not down with all the programming stuff (or really with 'street' slang, but I try), so I can't quite understand why the site has been sucking so hard lately.
All I see in that URL is Akamai and MTV and I totally just want to taser someone. Hopefully some greasy post nasal-dripping industry twat in a bad suit, but they're quite the elusive prey so I might just have to start randomly tasering innocent bystanders.
The hell with the blue, the gray & the effing green. Somebody deleted my comment in ask me yesterday - the one about the trouble with Verizon - and I am not happy. Yes, it was couched in less than serious terms, but the advice was okay: persist, persist, persist & eventually they'll give up. Grrrrrrrrr. I've never had a comment deleted before.
MTV and record industry execs now equal "the state"? We're in more trouble than I thought. We're going to need a lot more hookers and coke.
Look, I'm in for the coke, but not the hookers.
Or is it the hookers but not the coke. I can never remember. Hold on while I call my PO.
Let me see if I've got this straight: Rather than write the site in a tried-and-tested scripting language like php or (shudder) .NET, Matt wrote the entire site as a Java-fucking-application? And it's the application server that's falling over when the wind changes direction?
Basically, one writes Java (not JavaScript) on the server to present the pages, One may or may not use various "tag libraries" that allow the transparent embedding of java code in an html page.
The tags are pieces of arbitrarily complex java code; in theory, a java-ignorant web coder can use the tags "as if" they were html tags in a html document. the java server then preprocesses the html page to produce a Java application (ok, really, a Java class) that contains the tag code and the html market. This java class, when run, produces an html page, calling the tag code as needed to essentially "fill in the blanks".
So the original HTML: might include something like this standard HTML:
<H2> Hello </h2>
With this custom made tag:
<H2> Hello <mytablibrary:username> </h2>
That gets preprocesses by a component of the JRun app server into java code that would more or less look like this:
Where the username class would look something like this:
public class username extends genericTag {
public username( environment env ) {
super( env ) ;
}
public toString() {
return getuserNameFromDatabaseIfNotCached( getEnvironment().lookup( "userid" ) ) ;
}
} // end class username
The java class is then executed; the call to username.toString() causes other java code to be executed which looks up the username in the database given the userid found in the Environment variable, which is construucted by the Jrun server from the user's cookies.
The execution results in a text file of HTML markup, which is served to the user.
So again, the sequence is HTML + tags processed by app servdr into java code, which is run (usually against a database ) to produce pure HTML, which is served to the user.
(Note that this is all from memory, from writing tag libs and general java code on a different brand of java app server; while correct in the broad outlines, the details can be nit-picked.)
Thanks orthogonality, you hyper-competent sonofabitch. I'm not sharing any coke with you, you don't need it. That does actually make sense to me although only in the most broad terms as everything beyond the most basic html tag is past my experience.
Now, what's the best guess for what's shitting the bed every five minutes?
Y'know, I have very mixed feelings about this hot weather we're having here in NY. It's nice that the ladies are wearing less and showing cleavage and all that good stuff. But it depresses me a bit too, since as a frighteningly skinny, pale, acne-scarred guy with poor hygeine & grooming who hobbles around due to back pain, I don't do the warm weather skin-exposure thing well, so I'm still in my jeans & flannel.
It's also unfair that women have the secret weapon of cleavage. There's no male equivalent.
Another note, for those who care to explore the topic:
It's been de rigueur for some time to write what are called "three tiered" approaches to application server: a databases back-end, am "middle tier" that processes the data, and "front-end" that displays it.
For MetaFilter, the front-end is the HTML code that your browser receives, the back-end is some database, and the middle-tier is the JRun server.
My predilection was to write the middle tier in terms of database procedures, as in my experience databases are rarely switched, but middle tiers come and go with the fashions of the time. (Anyone remember SilverStream? I do, because I had to make it work with reasonable efficiency.)
Others prefer to make the database a "mere" repository of data. By making the database a "mere repository", one only relies on the basic database functionality, and it's easy to switch brands of databases, but difficult to switch brands of application server.
Conversely, putting most of the functionality in the database makes it easier to switch application servers, but forces reliance on database functionality that may not be present, or present in the same form, in all databases.
I suspect mathowie put most of the functionality in the JRun middle-tier, and that's why he can't easily junk JRun and replace it with another Content Management System.
You can rest assured, my friend, that quonsar could have coded up a much better and more reliable community website. Then it would have been him riding the incumbent bike! But that damn meddling Haughey got in the way. Quonsar could have been a contender! A champ! And now what? He's ruined. Ruined! No recumbent bike, no invitations to conference, no a-list friends! Damn you Haughey and your poor coding skills!
Maybe the server has been hanging out in a bookstore or a library more frequently than usual. Or maybe it has been executing commands from this screen.
peacay: I'm pretty damn mellow IRL, yeah. Very little phases me. I'm intense and passionate and stuff, but I can't remember the last time I actually raised my voice in a debate or generally directed it at someone.
No, wait, yes I can. Last time I yelled at someone was when I called up my girlfriend's boss and threatened to call EDS and the state tax board about some spurious and questionable shit I knew about his company if he didn't cut her a legit, well deserved and hefty accrued vacation and severence paycheck.
Yelling at and linguistically overwhelming and out-brainfucking a life long, PsyOps trained ex-special forces jarhead with my ninja-esque nerd skills = plus mutherfuckin' plus.
Orthogonality: The new way to do all that in CF would be to make CF objects and COM objects or something, bypassing the whole Java/J2EE crap, right? I remember CF 5.0 and CF MX having more of that fully-featured functionality and also "true language" and "turing complete"-ness.
So if you (orthogonality and/or quonsar) were in Matt's shoes, either now or in 1999, what would you do differently?
As I said in my last comment (written before I saw yours), I'd have written as much of the functionality into the database, so long as I could do that while adhering to the SQL-92 specification.
For instance, the continuing problem with times and timezones could be easily solved in the database with nothing more than a couple of database views (a view is a canned select statement) or procedures that calculated the timezone offset:
select a.*, localtime as dateadd( a.timestamp, b.timezone_offset, minute )
from comments a, users b
where b.id = @user_id
Then adding daylight savings time becomes easy:
select a.*, localtime as dateadd( a.timestamp, c.timezone_offset)
from comments a, users b, dst c
where b.id = @user_id
and b.tz = c.tz
and c.startJulianDay >= datepart( getdate(), julianDay )
and c.endJulianDay <= datepart( getdate(), julianDay )
(This is from memory, not tested, and somewhat reliant on Sybase conventions; a middle-tier proponent would critice it for this, and with some correctness. (Certain Sybase reserved words have been changed, to make the example easier to follow.)
I'd also have made the tag libraries as granular as practical: rather than have "smart" tab called "displayAllComments", I'd have had "dumb" tags (that is, "primitives") with which a displayAllComments could be composed: a iteration tag, a comment tag, an author tag, etc.
This would make extending the functionality, and debugging, easier, and would make the tags, at least, somewhat more portable to a different sort of Java app server or to a different brand of database. Rather than having to examine lines and lines of code for several big functions, one would only have make slight changes to specific primitives. (This is nothing more than following the principle of functional decomposition, of course.)
Again, in my experience, you can trust a database more than an app server, both because databases tend to be tested formally and informally, more, and because they adhere (more or less) to a published ANSI standard. Additionally, if you're using a good database, middle-tier processing will often be more expensive, in time-costs, than processing in the database, if only because you've got to move the data to the middle tier prior to processing. (This is not, however, an argument against caching.)
So I'd write more functionality into the database, and less into the middle-tier; but I should note that a lot of people would disagree with this approach.
By making the database a "mere repository", one only relies on the basic database functionality, and it's easy to switch brands of databases, but difficult to switch brands of application server.
For most applications, it's relatively easy to switch Java application servers. There are many, many complex, high-volume sites that use a Java application server to generate dynamic content. But very few of them are running Java on Windows.
Navel lint is produced from body hair - if they have navel lint then I doubt they'll be showing their midriffs - unless they're proud of being a great hairy wookie.
Navel lint comes from the same place sleepy kittens in your eyes do: outer space. No one, hairy or not, with an innie is immune to the space dust belly lint scatterers.
My only problem with that is the neck pain I experience from the whiplash that the uncontrollable wow-looks the exposed midriffs cause.
That gets old. I prefer squicking the gals out by reveling in grossness and ugliness, like wearing the same shirt 4 times before laundering, farting loudly on subways, and spitting out the occassional chunk of tooth on the sidewalk.
Jon, whatever happened to your plan to become a detective?
I saw that for the first time in the tazer thread.
Have you ever considered doing an internship as an investigator for the public defender's office? It's like being Paul Drake to somebody else's Perry Mason -- and meets all the dogooder service to others criteria.
Lately I can't turn around without seeing a lower-back tattoo. (And not on me) Did everyone have them before, or did they just become popular after low-rider jeans and mid-riff exposure became de rigueur.
jonmc: what's wrong with tshirts w/out the flannel overshirt?
Regarding recoding the site:
Matt basically said - thanks, but no thanks. When he gets around to it he'll hire professionals because time is of the essence. Um, what? That makes no sense. There are people out there willing to do it now, not sometime in the future.
Will someone explain the logic behind this? Pretty please?!
jonmc: what's wrong with tshirts w/out the flannel overshirt?
I don't think you realize how skinny, pale and acne-scarred I am, deborah. I take off the flannel overshirt and walk around outside, people are gonna think "junkie," "AIDS victim," or worst of all "starving artist."
I can't wait until this retro-faux disco-era wispy-bedraggled Paris Hilton-slash-Britney Spears look passes into the realm of bad taste. It's like everyone suddenly thought it'd be cool to look like failed valley girl porn stars transplanted to the NYC party circuit.
Champagne and goldtone fashion sunglasses, tore-up denim miniskirts with exposed pockets, chiffon tops with more engineering complexity than a suspension bridge and hideously trendy handbags.
Those jeans with the fake "wear stripes" haphazardly bleached into them suck, too. I never thought I'd see something worse than those terrible Levi's acid wash jeans. Y'know, the ones in the crinkly denim-camo pattern like you were trying to hide and hunt in a Miller's Outpost or GAP?
I'd never thought I'd say this but I miss the better parts of the fashion sense from the 80s. Whatever happened to demure, noir, and leaving something to the imagination?
But then, I guess it makes it much easier to spot the genuine girl-next-door geek girls and avoid the MTV-humping anf badly-bleached gumchewers.
And what in the fuck is up with the Hilton sisters? Why do they do that insanely annoying, bird-like neck-craning pose every time someone takes their picture? Don't they realize they're hideous looking and they don't have a "good side"? It's nearly impossible to watch any TV and avoid seeing them posing like that on a daily basis. I've taken to punching myself in the junk until I black out just to get through it.
The longer it goes like this, the less and less likely it is that when the dust settles, MeFi will still be a great community site.
It's a shame he can't get over his ownership issues and let the community help. I've been a staunch Matt supporter but it's just irrational, the way he's running things now.
I'll stop unintentionally baring my midriff when someone creates a tshirt that will cover *both* my boobs and my stomach. I hope they do this soon, it may be hot in New York, but it's cold over here in icy Iceland.
Some of us have cleavage whether we like it or not.
manboobs? what?
no, I meant guys who show off their package.
both sexes have, like, outie gender characteristics that are simplistically deemed as bigger=better. In real life most people are happy with average sized, but it's still noticable / kinda sleazy-sexy when someone accentuates their assets.
But maybe you meant 'secret weapon' in that it's hidden in the winter/ visible in the summer? In that case, men have pecs. (and if you're gonna say not all men do, remember not all us women have cleavage either.)
I sincerely doubt that women check out crotch bulges as often as men scope out bustlines, and bare skin makes cleavage much more in-you-face frankly sexualized. And with the baggy pants people wear these days I imagine package scoping would be difficult, anyway.
I sincerely doubt that women check out crotch bulges as often as men scope out bustlines
may be, but it's nothing to do with the "secret weapon" of the gender with the asset, but only the fascination of the scoper-outer. Consider as evidence the fact that dykes are not all that focused on cleavage, and gay men for sure are on the lookout downstairs. (to speak in sweeping stereotypes).
That said, anyone with an all around good looking body has a 'weapon' out in the summer. The size of breasts is hardly the focal point, I don't think. People just like to see a little more skin of good looking people, of any gender they go for.
may be, but it's nothing to do with the "secret weapon" of the gender with the asset,
right. that's why the wonderbra is the best selling undergarment of all time. I don't mind you screwing around with me, but don't lie to me like I'm Montell Williams.
photo by splunge
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