Yesterday I had a cyclist blow through a two way stop while riding down the middle of the road. I had no stop sign, but had plenty of time to decide if I really wanted to know what it felt like to kill a man. "Did you see him?" Yes I did, but I thought he'd obey traffic laws, so looked to my right, checked my mirror, by the time I looked back over I heard him going under my car. If he lives will you please write him a ticket and give him the bill for my damages?

I'm fine with sharing the road, I really am, but I am also an asshole when it comes to fuckheads that disobey the laws. Often I do want them dead. Usually I settle for the finger. I don't care if you are in a bike or in a car; obey the laws and I am fine. Well, unless you are one of those people insist on driving the speed limit. I hate you too.

And as to this being the perfect way to deal with assholes...not so much. The correct way is to pull over and let the asshole on the truck pass. Seriously, I drive a 2000 Neon. When a semi decides I'm fucking up his day I don't worry about who is correct. I just get the fuck out of the way.

Truck vs. bike generally goes to the truck.

Looks like the driver was ticketed.

What a jerk. I'm glad no one was hurt.

If I had kids I was teaching to drive, I think I'd really stress DON'T ESCALATE. There's a lot of space before you get to real road rage where you're just being kind of a dick. Usually because you thought someone else was being a dick and now you're "showing them". I know I've done it too often.

If I had kids I was teaching to drive, I think I'd really stress DON'T ESCALATE.

yea that is SO IMPORTANT, really. It's why I'm glad that this particular example has gotten the publicity it has. At least it has kicked off some conversations about driver education, not that I really think much will come of it.

tbh I'm in favor of much stricter standards for licensing, - starting with requiring re-test (both written and practical) every n years, no matter who you are or how old you are. Laws change, people change, abilities change. Not having to re-take a driving test, ever, unless you somehow fail the system (which is hard to do) is a really poor standard for general competence in the driving system.

I'm also in favor of licensing for any road users over the age of 12. If someone plans to go out in traffic using a vehicle, they should have an operating license. I don't care if it's bicycles, mopeds, cars, trucks, forklifts, 4-wheelers or what have you. If you're regularly out on a public road, you should have a permit that says you at least passed a basic level of competence to do so.

this opinion has made me supremely unpopular with a certain subset of the cycling community but you know, I could give a shit. As a licensed competitor, I already have to pay a hundred bucks a year for my licenses (for road and off road) and if I fuck up they get yanked and I lose my privileges. I think it's a fair tradeoff.

Friel was riding as far off to the side of the road as he could get. This wasn't about the guy in the truck not having enough room to pass. If that had been me, I wouldn't have pulled over. Where I live, that's often an invitation to a confrontation, and when you're stopped, you're more vulnerable than when you're moving.

Pulled over and stopped, that is.

when you're stopped, you're more vulnerable than when you're moving Yes indeed - often if you stop that's an open invite for the driver to escalate. And if not, then he feels even more validated in pulling this shit the next time.

not to mention that I know the road they were on pretty well - it's pretty rural and there's nowhere to pull off along that stretch. The verge drops straight off into a deep ditch with wire cow fencing on the other side.

The video is no longer available, although CNN were kind enough to let me watch the preceding ad before telling me that :-\

While I agree that it's better to take the high road when faced with such an unequal situation as car vs bike etc, it can be hard sometime when people do things that are so stupid as to defy any kind of logic. A few weeks ago, I totally lost it with a driver after he pulled out in front of me so close that I couldn't stop and ran into the side of his car (I was riding). I was so angry at the situation - he had stopped at the intersection and, as I always do, I made sure he had seen me and flashed my helmet-mounted headlight across him to make extra sure that he knew I was there. When I got to within a few metres of him, he just took off and I plowed straight into the driver's door. As I say, I completely lost it and yelled and screamed obscenities at him while banging my fist on the window. He just sat there and looked at me out the window. I got off the bike and walked it around the back of the car to continue, shaking with rage. As I did so, I lashed out hard with my foot at the rear quarter of the car, making a huge dent. He sat there for a few seconds, then drove off calmly.

It wasn't until quite a bit later that it occurred to me that what I perceived as not caring could have actually been that he was somewhat in shock himself at the thought of coming so close to actually running someone over. While I don't think I acted appropriately, it's hard to feel guilty about it.

I'm a bit ambivalent about re-testing of drivers, actually. While I think it's a good idea in theory, it's far more important to do something about actually testing them properly in the first place. I don't know about the US, but driving tests here are a joke. Driving instructors make a very nice living thank you very much from teaching people how to pass a test that has no particular relevance to whether you are a safe driver or not.

huh, that's weird - the video is still up on Dirk's account. direct youtube link.

[Shows that it was pulled for me, too. Might be a non-USA thing, but CNN doesn't usually block non-USA viewers.]

I'm glad they tracked down the driver and ticketed his ass. Yes, there are asshole bicyclists as there are asshole car drivers, but the two bicyclists were not being assholes.

I don't recall any (US) driving test I took having any questions regarding bikes.

I just smile and wave. If it makes it easier, I think of my wave as giving the guy the finger... five at a time. ;- )

I've been having a really tough time where I live with bikers. Generally, it's the car driver in my experience, that seems most dangerous to the bikers I see. I've seen accidents galore! It's so scary.

But, on this one road I live....OYSH! I want to put a placard on my truck that defines "door-line" with a speaker blaring it also. At least where I am, it seems the bikers know little about the rules of the road, driving in the middle of the lanes several across, completely unaware of the traffic behind them or seriously not giving a damn (especially the ones clad in all the right clothing), swerving around on the shoulder, having fun with the white line.

I imagine that some car drivers 'round here have gotten a real bad rep from some of these bikers. I've gotten the finger myself from a couple that, I guess, just assumed I'd be able to stop my 1 tone and a half truck in response to their sudden decision to swing into the lane driving next to each other.

So, here is my question for everybody....How do I get through to some of these bikers that there needs to be changes, self-education, and, at least a basic respect for steel rolling down the road with a re-view mirror that can knock off them to the ground? I'm trying Soooo hard to be sympathetic and see it from their POV but I'm failing.

I think, MonkeyButter, that you have encountered that activist/rebel attitude that many "pro" riders effect that make it so difficult for those of us bike riders who are amateurs. Most of the time, I am struggling to keep enough speed up an incline to maintain my balance. I swerve back and forth enough up hills that a bike lane isn't wide enough, thus my use of sidewalks. Hell, pedestrians walk faster than I ride. I don't even bother riding on side streets that have neither a bike lane nor a sidewalk.

Even then, some streets are just too damn busy to try to ride across. Then my choice is to either go the wrong way in the bike lane or take to the sidewalk. Actually, that isn't a choice. I just automatically head to the sidewalk.

Also, forget about giving hand signals. Modern bikes are not built for taking either hand off the handlebars, except for only the most experienced riders. When I need to turn left, I have to take to the crosswalks. That was when that asshole tried to hit me the other day--while walking my bike across the street in a crosswalk with the Walk light lit for regular pedestrians.

I give all due respect to a hunk of metal travelling 20 mph and up. I try to stay as far away from their travel lanes as I can possibly get. The pro riders will continue to fight their battles and piss off drivers; I am just trying to keep my ass out of a fucking scooter.

Ard, good points you bring up. You've given me new little ways to think about it. Ways to see it.

It makes sense now why I don't see a lot of hand signals. Also, many of the bikers are weekend riders. The swerve might just be trying to control the bike. WOW, that's gonna be hard to anticipate. It's been so long since I rode I'd forgotten about those details. THANKS!

Also, activist/rebel is a good description. I guess I see their point, kind of demanding, in a way, their right to be on the road. Not worth their lives, though.

re: hand signals. Yeah, bikes today are so damn light.

Old bicycles had heavy tire rims that kept that gyroscope balance going while that heavy frame kept your overall center of gravity low and high handlebars kept the rider upright. With very little practice, a rider could turn corners hands free.

Today's rims are super light and that gyroscope effect is virtually gone. The lower handlebars force a rider to lean forward and put more support of upper body mass onto the hands. Plus, the center of gravity for many riders now is well above the handlebars. Removing a hand from the grip immediately shifts a lot of weight bearing onto the other hand, and it pulls the forward motion into that direction hard. You literally have to steer into the direction of the hand leaving its grip, and that is a very difficult action to master.

I imagine most of this stuff is easier to perform at a higher speed and the rims have more gyroscope effect. However, a fast bicycle is by its nature a more dangerous bicycle. There are no real tradeoffs.

Let's put it this way. If my son ever shows signs of wanting to buy a bike, I'm going to strongly urge that he consider a motorcycle instead. They're way safer.

I don't have a hard time giving hand signals at all. And I have a brand new, really nice bike bought in May. It's perfectly easy and comfortable to take a hand off the bars and point. I really can't even imagine biking so fast, or being able to afford such a fast, light bike, that I wasn't able to signal - I mean, if I weren't able to signal a turn, I'm not sure how I'd manage to complete the turn, either, since that requires the same weight shifting. I hand signal all the time. I don't think you can assert that there's something about a bike design that makes signalling impossible - that's just pretty farfetched.

it seems the bikers know little about the rules of the road, driving in the middle of the lanes several across

Well, that's actually legal and recommended and is called taking the lane, and you do it when you are going to need to get into a far lane to take a left or a right turn and don't want to put the drivers at risk by weaving between them, or when you have such volume that you are simply safer clustered in the lane than in a long long single-file line.

It seems to me that a lot of the interactions are caused by simple poor driver and biker education. I find that even as a driver, other drivers don't know the rules of the road; no surprise that other bikers don't, either, though I tend to think that frequent riders are better informed because generally they have more skin in the game. But a little education would go a long way, since drivers are often under the misapprehension that they have lane control or the right of way when they don't.

How do I get through to some of these bikers that there needs to be changes, self-education, and, at least a basic respect for steel rolling down the road with a re-view mirror that can knock off them to the ground?

You don't. You don't try to get across anything to bikers - you just try to avoid killing them. It's not your job to educate them or communicate anything to them, it's your job to follow the law and do your best to avoid an accident, same as you would with other drivers. Don't escalate is good advice - just give them a good berth, don't look for trouble or attempt to school anyone, and focus on getting where you're going safely, and without endangering anyone else. That's all we could ask of anyone.

I have a lot of trouble with hand signals too. I always figured that it was just my poor balance. But also, I'm not going to take my hand away from that brake lever anywhere near an intersection because then I'm even more vulnerable. Not only can I not stop or slow down safely, if I manage to do so, I can't change down a few gears to get moving again. Fortunately, my commute has turning lanes at every intersection I have to turn at so it's not so much of a problem. I have figured that if I planned to commute long-term by bike I'd buy some indicators.

But you can do the signal long before you approach the intersection. It's not something you have to do continuously while turning, it's something you do for the driver(s) behind you, early on, to indicate a turn.

Always make hand signals well in advance of any turn, not just when you think they are needed. Since making a hand signal requires cycling with just one hand on the handlebars, practice doing that while maintaining a straight line. The proper turning sequence is: first shoulder check, then a hand signal, and then, with both hands on the handlebars, shoulder check again before making the turn or the stop.

Just as with auto drivers - if you don't signal until you're already turning, it's too late.

Doesn't work, Miko, when the only drivers who will see your signal will be long past you before you reach the intersection.

I bike a lot, Ardiril, like several times a week, for lengthy rides, and it works enough for me. When I use signals is mostly when I'm on busy city streets where traffic is moving, but not flying by at such a ridiculous rate people can't see you. There is usually plenty of time to signal before you make your turn. You hold your signal for several seconds to catch as much attention as possible. Before you begin your turn, you signal, then you put your hand back for the turn.

THe other time I rely on them is on longer, more open rural roads where you are going to cross traffic for your upcoming turn; in that case I signal for a very long time if need be, and if I worry they aren't going to see me, I just stop, wait for a break, and cross like a pedestrian would to get to the road I'm headed for.

It's my job to signal, as the cyclist; if a driver doesn't see me, they've fucked up. It makes sense, as a cyclist, to do every single thing you can do to preserve your safety.

If you really can't figure out how to signal while handling your bike at the same time, then you probably just aren't a good enough cyclist to be on the road with other vehicles, and honestly should probably confine yourself to really vehicle-free environments like empty parking lots.

I think you're making this sound a whole lot more complicated than it is in real life.