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02 August 2011

Tuesday Afternoon Question. . . I was listening to the new edition of the Dan Savage podcast today[More:] while driving around town, and there was a call from a woman who makes her living in sex work (it was unclear exactly what she was doing, although she said that handjobs were prominent in her work day), whose boyfriend had big problems with her work, to the extent that he cried while talking about it.

Disregarding, for now, the fact that, from this woman's demeanor over the phone (Dan Savage called her back), the guy had to know what he was getting into up front, how would you feel if your partner were involved with sex work?

For me, it seems like it would be a deal breaker up front. For whatever reason, I would dig this person as a friend, but would not get intimate. Could you have, as a primary partner someone who on a professional, non-intimate basis, is sexual with others during her/his work day?
Strangely I think I would. One of my sorta guilty pleasures is the In Death series by JD Robb, and that is actually a scenario she trotted out awhile ago -- that one of her characters, a very wonderful female doctor, falls hard for a professional male sex worker.

The thing is, there's a huge difference between sexual involvement and emotional involvement. I am absolutely not OK with emotional involvement. Professional sexual involvement is more like handling sewage for a living - not an appealing occupation for a partner, but not a deal breaker either.
posted by bearwife 02 August | 17:57
That would be a deal breaker for me.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 02 August | 18:02
But bearwife, if you met someone, and there was that little spark, and you found out that this person does this sort of work, would you allow yourself to get involved?

I am honestly trying to figure out what was in the boyfriend's head. Maybe he thought that he could handle it, going in. The woman (on the basis of the phone call) sounded really smart and very cool, and is in love with this guy, AND is making a good living doing what she is doing, and does not know what else she'd do to make equal money.
posted by danf 02 August | 18:06
Being friends with a sex-worker would be fine, there's nothing wrong with that line of work. But I couldn't be an intimate partner with one.
posted by deborah 02 August | 18:13
i don't see how it's complex. if you don't want your partner having sexual interactions with other people then yo don't want them doing it for money either
posted by Firas 02 August | 18:17
As a sidebar to this question, what about a spouse who is an actor, and has to get pretty darn physical with another actor?
posted by JanetLand 02 August | 18:23
I would not say it is an automatic dealbreaker, but this is one of those careers where level of professionalism, particularly concerning general health and hygiene, would matter a great deal.
posted by Ardiril 02 August | 18:34
Yes, I'd have concerns like Ardiril's. But sex workers are doing a job. If that's all that is going on, it wouldn't rule out a relationship with me.

God help my Bear if he did the Weiner thing or started flirting with a co worker or otherwise stopped thinking of me as the one and only woman in his life, though.

These are different things. That we use sex to express love doesn't mean that sort of emotion is always in play.
posted by bearwife 02 August | 19:22
I'm pretty jealous, so I'd say no. However, I also read the "In Death" series and if sex work today were seen in the positive light that it is in the series, I hope I'd be more inclined to be okay with it.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 August | 19:30
I think it would be a deal breaker for me.
posted by fancyoats 02 August | 19:48
It would be a deal-breaker for me with regard to an emotional attachment - not because I have any problem with people in that line of work, but because I would be too jealous and insecure. I would have no problem with a friendship or any relationship that didn't have intimacy as an integral part of the relationship.
posted by dg 02 August | 20:01
how would you feel if your partner were involved with sex work?

Dealbreaker for me in an intimate relationship.

I am honestly trying to figure out what was in the boyfriend's head. Maybe he thought that he could handle it, going in.

Maybe, or maybe he's just not good at identifying and articulating his boundaries, or maybe he's just discovered them. Sucky situation to be in, but he doesn't have to be in it, after all. And as for her, this choice of work will probably limit her available romantic partners.

and does not know what else she'd do to make equal money.

Well, she probably can't make equal money outside this profession, and that's the real problem I have with sex work. Not that it's dirty or wrong, but it's profoundly unequal labor.
posted by Miko 02 August | 20:34
I've been there. I wouldn't (and couldn't) deal with it . It ended very, very sadly
posted by rollick 02 August | 20:35
Hell, I am a sex worker.

It flowed naturally from being such a sex machine.
posted by jason's_planet 02 August | 20:57
Then there's those sex clock-watchers, and sex procrastinators.
posted by Miko 02 August | 21:05
I think my reaction would depend entirely on the specifics: the person, the exact nature of the job, and how the person expresses him/herself about the job.

I suppose this reveals more about my own prejudices and preconceptions about different kinds of sex work than anything. For example, I could well imagine being comfortable dating a sex therapist or sexual surrogate, but I'm probably too closed-minded to enter a relationship with someone who engages in other kinds of sex work.
posted by Elsa 02 August | 21:24
To clarify, I wouldn't call a sex therapist a "sex worker." I'd think of them as a mental health worker. To me, sex worker implies direct involvement in sex acts.

"Certified sex therapists do not have sexual contact with clients, in the office or anywhere else. Sexual coaching that involves physical contact isn't considered part of mainstream sex therapy."
posted by Miko 02 August | 21:28
...but I wouldn't date a surrogate either, and I do think that is sex work, though intended to be therapeutic in nature. In fact, I remember a long MeFi thread about sex surrogacy in which most of the surrogates mentioned in the articles acknowledged the difficulty of having their own intimate relationships because of the work, and most seemed to be pretty lonely about it.
posted by Miko 02 August | 21:33
Right, I meant to specify only sexual surrogate, not generalize to sexual therapist/sexual surrogate, since they're likely to be very different pursuits.
posted by Elsa 02 August | 21:34
I'd imagine there would be issues concerning sexuality, control, and other factors that would emerge within the "real" relationship. I don't think becoming a sex worker is as neutral a choice as people would like to think it is.
posted by DMelanogaster 02 August | 21:45
No, I wouldn't. To me sex as anything but an expression of love is pretty distasteful, and I wouldn't want to be intimate with someone who used it for commerce, just as I wouldn't want to be intimate with someone who used it as a weapon or any other tool.
posted by Hugh Janus 02 August | 23:18
Deal breaker for me.

I'd have no problem dating a non-porn actor, to answer JanetLand's question. Unlike sex work, none of the acting participants' main goals is sexual gratification, so that just seems very different to me.
posted by occhiblu 03 August | 00:36
To add to what Miko and DMelanogaster said, I wonder if the surrogates acknowledging difficulties chose their work for reasons (e.g. need for control) that contributed to their intimacy problems. That is, the cause-effect relationship wasn't only in one direction.
posted by Obscure Reference 03 August | 07:23
I don't think actors compare. Actors work with other actors, not clients seeking sexual activity. Everyone shares the same understanding of the interaction, and everyone (or maybe in the world of actors in my own personal life, no one) is being paid, so the participants are on equal footing.
posted by Miko 03 August | 08:17
On the other hand, a sex slacker is not so great either. tips hat to Miko.

Also, Hugh has it exactly right. Sex for fun, even, is okay, but for money, favors, etc., is not.
posted by theora55 03 August | 08:31
Deal breaker. Though I guess if there was no actual physical contact involved, like phone or web sex for money, or even exotic dancing, it might not bother me so much. Seems more like performance then (so to speak).

I once jokingly insinuated I would consider joining a couple (I was friends with the girl) for sex for five thousand dollars, and they were actually interested. As broke as I was, I still said no, but five grand, man. It's nice to know I could command that kind of money, once upon a time (I was younger and thinner then). It may also have involved a whip.
posted by Pips 03 August | 09:39
Jesus Christos. There's no sexual activity on earth, or sexual partner on earth, worth $5K to me. What it must be like to have that much to blow on a roll in the hay...
posted by Miko 03 August | 09:52
Yeah, the guy in the relationship made a lot of money (what, are you saying I'm not worth it? ; )

They were also rather experimental in their sex lives.

I might go 5k for George Clooney.
posted by Pips 03 August | 10:01
It would be a dealbreaker for me, too.

I've been trying to articulate in my mind exactly why, so this might be a bit rambly and derail-y. But.

You know how some people say "oh, the sex isn't the most important thing to me, it's the *relationship*, or the *emotional connection*" or whatever? And they insinuate that emotional infidelity for them, would be way worse to deal with than sexual infidelity? That's not me at all.

(note: I am NOT calling the hypothetical that danf posited infidelity, I'm just talking about where my mind is around this stuff in general)

Because our sex life (and the resulting daughter from it :) ) is the one thing that my husband and I share that is only ours. Emotional connection? My husband is one of my best friends, but he isn't my best friend. I have emotional connections as deep as the one with him with other people. Now, packaged as a whole, my relationship with my husband is closer than with anyone else, because it includes the emotional connection, the sex life, the living as a family. But if you isolated the sexual bit, and he was doing that with someone else, even paid, then you're taking away the *only* thing that I get to share with him and him alone.

So that's why, I think.

posted by gaspode 03 August | 10:15
I was trying to think why, too, and for me it comes down to the same attitude I have about polyamory: it's just not where I want to put my energy. A relationship that involves something more complicated than two people agreeing on an exclusive sexual relationship inherently demands a new level of discussion, negotiation, decisionmaking, boundary drawing, benchmarking, unexpected-emotion handling, etc. That's all well and good if it's worth it to you and you're the kind of person who would be willing to spend that much time on relationship hygeine.

I'm just not that kind of person. I tend to feel like I have a certain amount of intellectual and emotional energy in life, and that it's kind of finite, as are the hours in a day. And I would just much rather use those energies and hours on something other than the details of my sexual arrangement with my partner. There's too much else good stuff to do, and I want to feel supported and nurtured while doing it, but not make the relationship a central focus of my daily life by doing that much arranging. I definitely prefer simplicity and steadiness in my closest, most intimate relationships, and choose not to invite the inevitable complications and confusions that would arise in a relationship with a sex worker. I'm sure it's possible to adapt emotionally, but it's actually not a direction I want to adapt in. That energy could be working on other abilities and projects which I value more.

That, and, like DMelanogaster, I also don't think the career is a "neutral" choice - even at its best and most fair, the choice correlates with other values and attitudes that I just don't share, so I wouldn't want them in a life partner. The very idea that someone could compartmentalize this kind of work is in itself a disincentive to trying to have an intimate relationship with them.
posted by Miko 03 August | 10:57
I have been thinking, and remembering that once I entered into a situation which, while not like this, was similar.

I went in, knowing of certain conditions, and my attraction to the person made me ignore some emotional red flags. When those red flags came due, there was a lot of suffering on my part, and my (protracted) leaving caused a lot of suffering on this person's part.

So, upon reflection, I can sorta see the guy's mindset. He's attracted, and manages to compartmentalize, up front, the "cost of doing business" in this relationship. Until the bill came due.
posted by danf 03 August | 11:46
i listened to this after reading your question and I have to answer that I don't know. For me to get into a serious relationship with someone, there would have to be an unusual connection between us and that is rare enough, it seems. Sometimes I am possessive, most times I am not, and it would depend on the person's professionalism about the whole thing and, hell, the whole things seems very individual. I would not date a careless sex worker with boundary issues and a need for drama. If someone was the total package and happened to be a sex worker, I would consider it.
Right now I tend to avoid anything that would be complicated or troublesome, but everyone has their share of issues and troubles the more you get to know them.
If I found that irrepressible spark with anyone, I would follow it. If it turned out to be with a sex worker, I'd have a lot of questions, but I think I'd have a lot of questions anyway.
The woman on the show seemed to mostly give hand jobs and I don't think I would have much of a problem with that. I'm wondering how much of a difference it would be between a male and female sex worker, though. It would be so dependent on the individual in question.
I don't know how long that woman's relationship is going to last.
posted by ethylene 03 August | 12:31
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