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06 July 2010

Ask MeCha: Supermarket Bags After reading Shepard's Metatalk posting about re-usable grocery bags, I was wondering how many of you-all used them? We try to but we always seem to be the only ones in the supermarket who do. Also when we do use them, the bagger usually gets grumpy about it since they're not used to using them and it slows them down.[More:]We bought the reusable bags at the chain that we go to and they advertise them but they don't bother to train the baggers to use them. Two of the bags that we have are insulated for frozen foods but the baggers invariably stick boxes of cereal or cat food in there and put the frozen food in the regular bags. I'm not mad at the baggers or cashiers since they're working low wage shitty jobs but I'd like to see the company actually encourage people to use the reusable bags instead of making you feel like you're an annoying hippie when you do.
I use them about 80% of the time. We do keep evil plastic shopping bags around to chuck in the baby bag in case she pukes/poops on herself while we are out and need something to seal it in, so there is always a little stash. I have one of these bags that folds up tiny and goes in my purse everywhere so there is never an excuse not to use one.

I was thinking last time I was in New Zealand about the differences between countries... supermarkets there charge you for plastic bags if you don't bring reusable bags (everyone I saw brought reusable ones). Here at some places, you get money back if you use reusable ones... a very different type of psychology behind the incentivising.
posted by gaspode 06 July | 10:17
We use the plastic bags because we have two dogs.
posted by desjardins 06 July | 10:28
I shop at this very hippie green LEED certified Hannaford grocery, and when they opened last summer they gave away reusable bags for the first two weeks, and people are encouraged to use them. So most of my plastic bags come from other places like the drug store or the hardware store or Goodwill, where I haven't gotten used to taking in my own bags yet.
posted by JanetLand 06 July | 10:38
This is the hippie capital of the US so yeah, people do use the reusable bags even at the regular supermarket. Still, the baggers are always a little disconcerted but they're gotten more used to it and a lot of them are all encouraging: "Good for you!" The only problem is that so many baggers have this crazed one item per bag mentality. I have to keep saying, look, no, please fill them up, they're strong. I use the plastic bags for the dogs, too, but given the one item per bag thing, I always have more than I can use even though I probably bring reusable bags 3 out of 5 times. The other 2 times they're still in the kitchen - head, forget, screwed on, etc.

At the hippie stores - Earthfare, Greenlife, the coop - they charge you a nickel apiece for each non reusable bag you use and you have to ask for them humbly and get a stern look in return. They'll give you boxes free though.
posted by mygothlaundry 06 July | 10:41
Most of the stores have some sort of dipshit incentive for reusing bags. Usually 5 cents per bag, although Trader Joe's has a drawing (which I have never won and regularly accuse them of faking).

We always use either cloth bags or used paper bags. We also use paper bags for trash.

There is one store (Albertson's) which still uses plastic bags, and if I go there I will try to get extra for both dog poop and to line our little compost bin on the kitchen counter.

I bought a cloth bag at Berkeley Bowl, and this is really good for cool points when I shop. The cloth bag that our local hospital gave out, not so much.
posted by danf 06 July | 10:50
I've never seen the charge for plastic bags around here but I'm (mostly) used to us being a good five years behind the rest of the country.
posted by octothorpe 06 July | 10:53
DC charges a 5 cent tax on bags, at the grocery store, take-out restaurants, the hardware store, everywhere, paper or plastic, so I tend to see a lot of reusable bags, and the clerks tend to expect them.
posted by mrmoonpie 06 July | 11:01
We use the reusables at the grocery pretty much every trip (exceptions tend to be when I forgot I needed to stop on the way home and there wasn't an Envirosac in my briefcase). Guy gets plastic bags from other stores to use for cat litter trash bags. At my grocery they weigh the produce for you in the produce department: they're good about letting me stick the produce all loose into my produce bag and then sticking the stickers to the tag on the bag, or putting all the produce into one paper bag and sticking the stickers on the outside.
posted by crush-onastick 06 July | 11:05
I don't use them for supermarket trips; without a car, I don't have a good way of always having them with me. I use them for carting books to the library and stuff like that.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 06 July | 11:07
I alternate between using the flimsy free bags (which I reuse for various things) and taking my own, sturdier, bags. My favourite bags are the ones I bought in Whole Foods in NY, and the ones they sell at Pets At Home, which, apart from being good strong bags with a flat base, are also covered with photos of pets.
posted by Senyar 06 July | 11:31
We use the reusable bags about %90 of the time. It's only when we stop at a dollar store or a drug store that we forget. It's the law here that stores must charge for bags.
posted by arse_hat 06 July | 11:36
This is the hippie capital of the US


...um, maybe the Eastern region. You've never visited Boulder, Colorado, have you? Or Austin, Texas, for that matter... let alone Berkely :P

We have a small stash of evil plastic shopping bags for things like chucking muddy, sweaty bike clothes into post-ride. Most of the time we use the various messenger bags / bike panniers that we're carrying because we rarely ever drive to the grocery store. I'm an old hand at hitching cloth/reusables to the load straps on my messenger bags for large/bulky/delicate items too, and I've successfully hucked unbelievable quantities of groceries home on the fixie - even the mister is amazed at what I manage to finagle into/onto my bags (being a former courier does teach one rather quickly how to deal with negotiating weird/unstable loads).

We never get glared at by the supermarket staff because they're used to it. Often we just tell them we'll bag it and they don't bat an eye, mainly cos we're better at loading/balancing messenger bags / bike panniers than any of their baggers, and they appreciate that. They even have a "tare bag" button on the interface at the self-checkout lanes to enable people to use their own packaging / bags quickly and easily by themselves.
posted by lonefrontranger 06 July | 11:45
Thanks for posting this! I have been thinking about posting the same thing.

I use reusables. When I started, it was pretty rare, but it's catching on and now I'm never the only one in the market with them. At first I had a problem remembering to bring them along - now I have, like, 15 bags, and some are always in the car while the more recently used ones are in the 'house' part of the cycle.

The only problem is that so many baggers have this crazed one item per bag mentality. I have to keep saying, look, no, please fill them up, they're strong.

This is SO true. It's like they don't believe in the tensile strength of the bags. They're so used to handles that will break that they don't even try to pack the bags anywhere near their capacity. It also makes me notice how far the art of bagging has fallen. I can remember, when I was a kid in the paper bag days, that people had bagging down to a science - heavy/boxy stuff on the bottom, soft stuff and produce on top - so no one ever wasted a square inch. Today, they often attempt to pack cloth bags in the same haphazard way they do plastic, which is inefficient.

The other battle you have to fight is to stop them wrapping single items in plastic that they just believe should be in plastic. Ice cream. Chicken. Frozen foods. Produce. I stopped a woman putting plastic on my ice cream last night - she said "i just didn't want it to melt and leak all over your other groceries." It's a lovely thought, but is it based in reality? Even on a 15-minute drive home, my ice cream does not melt enough to leak all over the bag.

Two years ago, there was a campaign for my city to go plastic-bag free. It's still pending, but I helped do some canvassing when it started. Almost everyone was in favor of it, with few exceptions. And the #1 exception was "But I use them for dog poop!" I think that's true, and it's good to reuse plastic bags once they're in existence. I re-use the ones I get (when I forget my bags) as bathroom trash bags. But at the same time, I don't see it as a reason to continue producing the bags and distributing them for free. Only a portion of them is ever reused, so the remaining bulk of them become landfill or hazard - they are particularly hard on marine life. It seems to me that it's fair to say that if you have a dog (kid, bathroom trash can etc) then it would be OK for you to bear the cash and environmental cost yourself, rather than having the public and the grocery industry subsidize the need at tremendous cost to the environment. In other words, I respect that people recycle, but if we were able to ban the bags, we would all find solutions to take the place of the uses we have now for plastic bags.

I saw the MeFi bag exchange and thought it was a great idea. I don't think I'll take part, though, because I have so many bags already, and because I like ones that are souvenirs of places I've travelled. $1 is a pretty awesome price tag for a unique logo souvenir item that is also useful.
posted by Miko 06 July | 11:48
We remembered re-usable shopping bags maybe 30% of the time when we lived in Madison, and not for all stores. We did take any paper bags we got to Willy St Co-op so they could use them, which is a cool program.

Here, we mostly use re-usable bags everywhere and speak disparagingly of how awful we were about it in Madison. It's become a point of pride to either have enough bags or to just carry everything out if we don't have much. I have so many cloth bags from going to the ABA (BookExpo) when I managed a bookstore.

I still get plastic bags for produce, but we make ourselves wash them (yeah, my sister says I'm completely crazy too) and re-use them for the farmers' market and our CSA produce. I need to come up with a better solution for that - my fridge is really lousy in this house and I definitely see things not last as long if they aren't in a plastic bag.
posted by Sil 06 July | 11:55
I keep my re-usable bags in my [shame] car [/shame] and so I usually remember to use them now. I like the canvas best because they're small, easy to wash, and strong. I have one giant plastic one my mom got for me in France. You could probably fill it with rocks and it wouldn't break, but I don't really understand how to use such a big grocery bag - is produce lighter in Europe?
posted by serazin 06 July | 11:57
The places I find I get the weirdest looks are clothing stores. Unsurprisingly, this is especially true at Nordstrom, but the clerks at H&M and the Gap and the like all look confused when I refuse a bag. Book stores, drug stores, other shops never seem to care when I say "no bag, please" or "i don't need a bag." but the clerks in Nordstrom don't take kindly to the refusal of a bag.
posted by crush-onastick 06 July | 11:58
we make ourselves wash them (yeah, my sister says I'm completely crazy too) and re-use them

NOT CRAZY-IST. I do this too. There's a lot of produce that doesn't need the bag, but I have to draw the line at really wet lettuce (wish they wouldn't do that!) and things like green beans. But they do last a few go-rounds.

While we're confessing, I have also been saving every other kind of plastic bag for a few years. I re-use them as wrap on cut veggies and fruit, or if they are resealable, just like a Ziploc. I feel better that this plastic gets a few more uses, and I'm using much less new plastic wrap from the box. It bugs me a little because I have started to get way creeped out by plastic, especially around food, but I'm gradually transitioning a lot of the fridge and cabinet food storage to other containers. Recently I found some awesome enamelware containers with snug lids at the flea market. Little by little.
posted by Miko 06 July | 11:58
For the bagging technique issue: I used to work in a grocery store and have developed the habit of bagging with the bagger when I can. That way if I have particular items I want together, or I'm afraid of them putting my organic nectarines at the bottom or whatever, I can just head that off at the pass myself.
posted by serazin 06 July | 11:59
I have never managed to successfully wash & dry a plastic bag. I often try to wash them for reuse but they always look or smell grungy. Even ones that are sold as reusable!
posted by crush-onastick 06 July | 12:05
serazin, there's not usually time when I'm checking out to do my own bagging. By the time that I'm done loading all the groceries on the belt, the cashier has rung up 3/4ths of the order and the bagger is 1/2 done. By the time I give the cashier my advantage card and swipe my charge card, the bagger's done.
posted by octothorpe 06 July | 12:11
Me too, Miko. I have a friend who uses bread bags to carry her lunch and I save up and wash mine for her. I am happy the stores around here accept plastic bags for recycling too so when they get too old, that's where they go.

Like you, I have more stuff in glass jars now or pyrex containers but yeah, no solution yet for lettuce and greens. Not to mention it'd be nice to get away from produce bags so we don't have a continual pile of plastic bags waiting to be washed or sitting out drying.

crush-onastick - I turn them inside out and use dishsoap and then prop them up on something so they are open to dry. Takes an afternoon to dry if it's not damp outside. I have my doubts though - when I wash them in warm water I wonder if I'm not introducing problems with chemicals in the plastic breaking down. I mostly then just mentally put my fingers in my ears and sing LALALA because I still haven't found a better solution.
posted by Sil 06 July | 12:13
my fridge is really lousy in this house and I definitely see things not last as long if they aren't in a plastic bag


(warning, minor derail) - Sil, have you tried the following?

1) remove all items from fridge and freezer, clean out completely. and I mean, EVERYTHING.

2) turn off / drain for several days (yea, I know, it's a pain in the ass)

3) completely clean and disinfect fridge and freezer shelves, cabinet, etc. Pull the fridge out from the wall, and vacuum the coils and remove any debris/dust bunnies/pet hair/etc... from behind and underneath. WARNING: this is often a terrifyingly dirty job; wear a dust mask. It's one of the most neglected spaces in any kitchen.

4) turn back on, check that all fans (in freezer and fridge cabinet) work properly. Set fridge and freezer to recommended (usually middle) settings.

I'm dead serious. This has worked for me for several shitty rental fridges. What happens is that even in "self-defrosting" units, moisture and condensation builds up, and in units that circulate air from the freezer to the fridge cabinet, it may be that the recirc. fan has been blocked and potentially even the motor has burned out. This means the fridge may not be cooling properly. If that's the case, you may have rock-hard ice cream (due to overly cold freezer temps) and rotting produce in the fridge.

Even if the fan motor in this type of fridge is burnt out, it's a relatively simple/inexpensive fix. If you rent, talk to your landlord about it.

Honestly, I've rejuvenated several different fridges with a good cleaning / defrost and (once) minor repair. They work so, so much better when they're taken care of.

The reason for the clean behind/underneath is that to cool properly, a refrigerator unit needs adequate airspace behind and underneath it to "breathe", otherwise the coils can't do their job properly. The fridge needs to be at least 6" from the wall, and the coils need to be cleaned regularly.

Good luck! If a good cleaning/defrost and/or minor maintenance doesn't do the trick, then it's time for a new fridge.
posted by lonefrontranger 06 July | 12:31
Yeah, sometimes that happens to me too octothorpe. At Berkeley Bowl where I do most of my shopping there seems to be about a 4:1 cashier:bagger ratio though, so when the bagger hasn't arrived yet, I do get a chance to help bag.
posted by serazin 06 July | 12:32
Hmmm, good advice, lonefrontranger. I'll add it to my list of things I need to do. It's a really cheap refrigerator that came with the house, and most of the rest of the kitchen appliances (same cheap brand) have completely failed so I've kind of written it off as that but you are right, I should do that and see if it helps out for a while.

I'll never love it as there is more freezer space than fridge (we eat a ton of fresh vegetables and only have a few things in the freezer so it's backwards for us). I wonder if the cleaning will help with how regularly it freezes stuff in the refrigerator side. Will report back!
posted by Sil 06 July | 12:37
We use our reusable bags all the time at the Ottawa supermarkets we frequent. They've become pretty much standard here and the cashiers know to ask for them. Most stores now charge 5¢ per plastic bag and sell the reusable ones for 99¢. They're machine washable, too.

I like them, among other reasons, because they make walking back from the grocery store a little bit easier. The handles on the bags are long enough to hang over my shoulder.

The only thing is that I'm not sure what I'll do with these bags when they wear out... Hmm...
posted by MelanieL 06 July | 12:48
We have them but always forget them! We only have about 5 or 6, and live (currently, moving soon) in a 2nd-floor apartment and park on the street, often not directly in front of our building. So we drag all the groceries upstairs, put them away, tuck the reusable bags in the pantry, and there they remain until by some miracle 3 or 4 trips later we actually remember to take them with us. I don't really understand the "always have in the car" thing because once you bring the groceries into the house, the bags are no longer in the car and you still have to remember them. It doesn't help that we also don't use the car much (maybe once a week) so there's no habit of taking them out there on our way to work/elsewhere.

I will say the local chain grocery store here (Dominick's) is quite good at packing those suckers full though.
posted by misskaz 06 July | 13:24
oh, right: speaking of reusable bags, and fridge problems... the mister had a habit of stuffing all his spare grocery bags in the space next to the fridge, which was blocking airflow to the rear coils and causing them to cool inefficiently, which meant frozen "fresh" produce in the crispers, and spoilt milk on the top shelves. So when I moved in, I did my typical fridge maintenance cycle (his former roommates were pigs, thus the fridge was a mold colony in desperate need of a weapons-grade bleaching), and while I was at it, I created a new bag storage rack in an underutilised pantry shelf, and removed everything from around/beside the fridge enclosure so that it could get proper airflow.

Storing spare (plastic/reusable/paper, etc...) bags next to / beside / around the fridge seems a somewhat common habit; I've had to tell my mom not to do it either.

I only really know all of this stuff about fridge units because I've worked at enough food service / laboratory settings to have had to do this sort of "refrigerator maintenance" type stuff as part of my job in both industries. :P
posted by lonefrontranger 06 July | 13:33
I started using reusable bags two decades ago, only partly from environmental concerns. (If you're walking any distance with a heavy load, it's nice to have a sturdy bag with a flat bottom and comfortable handles.) Back then, very often cashiers or store managers found the reusable bags a complete novelty, and not usually a welcome one. Sometimes the manager would tell me that they were required to put their merchandise in their own bags before allowing it to leave the store. At least once, I was unable to persuade the manager out of this requirement; I voided my purchase and left emptyhanded.

Now, our baggers and cashiers are accustomed to customers bringing their own bags; they ask us for them, they pack them efficiently, they sometimes remark on a particularly nice bag I carry with me. The biggest grocery store displays an assortment of inexpensive bags for purchase near the checkout and another impulse-grab display at the point of payment.

Seeing the use of reusable bags shift over time from being an unusual and somewhat suspect practice to being one that's widely accepted has been really encouraging. I know it's a small step, but cumulatively it adds up, and I like seeing that people will change their habits. It makes me believe that larger change is possible, too.
posted by Elsa 06 July | 14:08
there they remain until by some miracle 3 or 4 trips later we actually remember to take them with us. I don't really understand the "always have in the car" thing...

Here's how I work it, becuase I did have the memory problem: I start out by putting ALL the bags in the car, about a dozen or so, and they're folded up and tucked inside a single bag which sits behind the passenger seat. When I go into the store, I snag about 4 bags out of there - I rarely would need more than 4 and usually don't need that many. If I haven't used a bag, I put it right back.

Full bags go upstairs to be unloaded. Once emptied, extra bags are folded back into one main bag. That main bag is hung (this is key) on the doorknob of the front door as you exit the house. Having them right there on the door reminds me that they need to go back downstairs to the car and also keeps a few handy handy for the shopping we can do on foot (not too much, except for the farmer's market and convenience store).

So this works out because: even if I am lazy and don't put the bags right back in the car, there are probably 2 more trips' worth of bags already IN the car which never left it. That gives me plenty of time, a couple weeks actually, to remember to ferry the empty bags back into the car.

So in short, my solution was to have enough multiples to avoid a crunch and to realistically acknowledge that I'm not going to put bags back right away, but will given enough time.
posted by Miko 06 July | 15:12
We've found that having multiples is the solution for remembering, too. I have a couple full sets of the envirosax because they fold up really small. At least one is always in my briefcase, the rest go in a basket by the front door. We just grab a couple on the way out to the grocery store, unload the groceries, fold them back up, and pop them in the basket by the door. It's become reflexive, like grabbing my keys off the hook by the door, to grab an envirosax. Sometimes I grab one when we're going to dinner or something.
posted by crush-onastick 06 July | 15:32
Miko's solution to putting the bags on the doorknob is what I was just going to say. The next time I go out, I grab it and put the bag of bags in the car.
posted by haunted by Leonard Cohen 06 July | 16:48
Me too, I get annoyed if I leave them on the front door, so I'm sure to grab them and put them in the car, where I leave them (in my trunk). If I'm walking to the grocery store, I just grab them from there on the way. I'm willing to exploit my grouchiness about being messy to my advantage :)
posted by Sil 06 July | 19:16
We always use ours. I need to make a point NOT to use them this week since the years-worth of stored plastic bags are almost gone, and we do need those for cleaning the catbox.
I see a lot of people using them at Wegmans, they push the reusable bags really hard.
posted by kellydamnit 06 July | 20:06
One of the surprising things in this red-red town is that the cloth bags are really taking off. The folks I've talked to like them because the plastic bags don't mess up their house. I don't know that the 5 cents per bag really helps. I think a quarter would be better.

The first time I got one at the checkout stand, I nearly got the cloth bag handed to me in a plastic bag. I had to be pretty direct with cashiers and baggers to stuff things in the bags, but since they're all over now, it's not so bad.

I tend not to like branding, but if I get a bag for free, great. Though I hadn't thought of the souvenir angle. I'll have to think about that.

I keep my bags right next to the front door. Since I have to plan my shopping, I grab the wallet and the bags when I'm going out.
posted by lysdexic 06 July | 20:31
Just got back from the Giant Eagle (went to one out in the 'burbs since we had been at a garage sale) and once again I was the only one in the store with my own bags. And the bagger looked like she was going to cry having to deal with them.
posted by octothorpe 10 July | 11:30
We use a re-usable bag, but over here we bag our own groceries so really it's just a matter of me remembering to bring it.
posted by dabitch 19 July | 05:26
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