While I doubt I'm in an emotional relationship, I definitely identify with the eggshells thing. It can be exhausting. Then again, I'm pretty sure it's because I'm almost completely tactless.

lol

emotionally abusive relationship

It's funny because I spent the majority of my life completely out of touch with my emotions, see?

And this is part of why I just don't date. (Last 2 out of 3 relationships--oh yeah, fucking textbook.)

Believe me, I still kick myself all the time about the stupid shit that I just completely overlooked for the validation of 'someone loves me'.

Blocked as "Adult Content; Adult Material"

As the link is to a women's health magazine, I suppose some use of the word "vagina" has IT Nanny concerned.

It was only after I got sober that I realised all my past relationships (and the marriage I was in at the time) were emotionally abusive. It took me a long time and a lot of work to be able to get past that and develop some self-esteem.

My last two relationships have been incredibly emotionally healthy - great communication, openness and honesty.

"I was walking on eggshells all the time, not knowing what would detonate the blowups."

Yeah, this.

But you know what? That article pissed me off a bit because, despite a token acknowledgement that, sometimes, women are the abusers, it talks from a perspective that it is almost always women who are the victims of this. I'm sure that males and females are equally guilty, but it's less acceptable for men to feel abused, so we all pretend that we're OK and fine and just need to man up and accept it. Well, bullshit.

Yeah dg, that's why I want to find the sidebar, because that's where the acknowledgment seems to be. I'm debating about whether to show this to a man I know, because he might not be able to get around all the "yes aren't women always the victims" mentality.

Eideteker: Being blunt, and therefore HONEST, is one thing; it's up to the other person whether they can handle that much honesty. :) But emotional abuse always seems to involve manipulation, always blaming the other person, subtle and/or passive aggressive digs, and a whole bunch of other crappy stuff.

Oh, sigh, makes me think of my ex-. No matter what I did, he could not walk next to me. And he would neglect to introduce me to people; towards the end, his body language when we were with other people would explicitly exclude me. He had/has no idea that he does this stuff, and so much more.

She kept thinking he'd be happier if he got the right job, if she tried a little harder, if she happened on some magic formula. this.

But, it cuts both ways; he felt terrible in our relationship. He filtered my every word in a way that made him oblivious to anything good. Epic No-Win. Glad he's mostly in my past. Co-parenting has been a nightmare.

melismata, I would suggest that this article is not a good one to show to a man as an example of how this sort of behaviour affects women. From a male perspective, it looks like it's saying that all men are bastards and all women are victims. I personally don't get that message from it, but I can see how someone with that attitude would see this as confirmation.

I'm not in favour of use of the term emotional abuse here.

The standard use of the word abuse in this context is physical abuse in a relationship. And using that word triggers legal and social reactions. Because men are generally physically stronger and women can't always defend themselves. And we think that as a result women may need help.

I don't think that that dynamic applies to manipulating, degrading etc in a relationship.
F.i. my last girlfriend turned out to be manipulative, selfish, degrading and unkind under that very sociable veneer. It was my responsibility to take care of myself, recognise that she wasn't good for me and walk away. I would never call it emotional abuse since that would take that responsibility away from me.
I don't believe that that works.

She was abusive, but you didn't let yourself be abused.

The article is better than many in that it recognizes that it's not all good guys and bad guys--that there's something attractive about the emotional abuser. We live in an emotionally abusive society. Parents emotionally abuse kids, teacher abuse their students, kids abuse their peers, employers their employees. "We" elect bullies because we think they can protect us.

jouke, what else could it be called? (I don't mean that rhetorically.) I am glad for you that you recognised her behaviour as unacceptable and removed yourself from the situation, but not everyone has the strength and wisdom to do that!

My first boyfriend I still refer to as "the psycho". He was incredibly intelligent and disturbed, and I was sixteen and didn't know that what he was doing was textbook passive-aggressive emotional abuse. He fucked me up but good, and it took years for me to process all of it. (And yeah, there was some physical abuse in there too.)

I wish someone had showed an article like this to me while I was in the thick of it. I remember reading "Reviving Ophelia" in my early twenties and discovering the definition and examples of emotional abuse (and co-dependency), and wanting everyone to read that book.

That's an interesting point obscure_ref; about us electing bullies thinking that they can protect us. Maybe we're unwittingly drawn to people that we wouldn't be happy with because potential children would have their 'strong' traits.

Specklet, I'd just say that that person is not good to you, not good for you, not kind, not loving. Learning to recognise that in potential partners and learning to stay away is a learning process we all have to go through. God knows I didn't know to do that until my 30s.
Personally I think that using that word accentuates a dynamic that's not helpful and I won't use it to describe my situation or that of others.

Apparently you do like to use it. That's fine of course. We don't have to agree.

Brrrr! the shortest relationship I was in was characterised by some of these behaviours. Like jouke I didn't stay in it long enough for me to actually call it abusive but like many women I took it longer than I should have simply because I loved him and made excuses all the time. (he was the kind of guy women inevitably find themselves making excuses for)

The important thing to realise as Jan says is that self-esteem is a kind of vaccine for this type of relationship. How terrifying strong individuals, of both genders, must seem to those losers?
I guess some of them are intelligent enough to deliberately seek out relationships with people of low self-esteem because that's probably the only way they'll be in long-term relationships.

It's just so sad to see all that needless suffering.

and just to say it absolutely applies to both genders, I think though due to cultural conditioning fewer men would put up with it long-term. Paradoxically, as men become more liberated from the patriarchal paradigm, they are probably more likely to stay in these relationships longer.

jouke, I guess I'm still confused as to why you feel the word "abuse" doesn't apply here.

What I experienced was so much more than someone being not good for me, not kind, or not loving. He was mean, cruel, vindictive, and inhumane in his treatment of me. I don't know another word to better describe his behaviour than “abusive”. To me there’s no dynamic being accentuated, it’s simply a defining word. (Perhaps physical abuse is a more well-known phenomenon, but that’s why we call it physical abuse.)

Anyway, I’m happy to admit this is down to semantics (or our different associations?), but wanted to clarify my use of the word.

I do disagree with you, though, that labelling a relationship as abusive takes away responsibility from the abused.

I don't think it matters what you call it. Wilder alludes to an interesting point - both sides of an emotionally abusive relationship are suffering. I don't agree, though that men are more likely to stay in relationships where they are being abused - I think men of my age (I'm 48) may be more likely to stay, but I think most younger (read: Gen X mainly) men are more likely to not feel subject to traditional expectations to stay in a relationship no matter what.

Found the print copy, good. Thanks again, dg, for your suggestions. Probably won't show it to anyone just yet, but I'm keeping it on my bookshelf in case these people ask for my opinion and/or seem ready to read it.

Interestingly related news release:

University of Missouri researcher Christine Proulx, found that husbands’ hostile and antisocial behaviors increased their wives’ symptoms of depression over time.

“In the study, husbands’ marital hostility was significantly related to increases in wives’ symptoms of depression,” said Proulx, assistant professor in the department of human development and family studies in the College of Human Environmental Sciences.

“The more hostile and anti-social behavior exhibited by husbands, the more depressed their wives were after three years.

“These findings suggest that husbands’ treatment of their wives significantly impacts their psychological well-being and that hostile behavior has a lasting effect on couples that continues throughout their marriages.”

The researchers found no significant relationship between wives’ hostile behavior and husbands’ depression, unless significant life events, such as a death in the family or a job loss, were present.

...Antisocial behaviors are those that are self-centered, defiant or show a lack of restraint; hostile behaviors are those that are angry, critical or rejecting.

Thanks Occhi, that's a really interesting study.
i'm also heaterend by DG's feeling that the new generation X males would simply walk out.

I think I've observed a transitionary group of males, ones who stick with whatever bizarre female manipulations because they over-identify with the struggles women have had to be recognised so perhaps they cut them some slack.

I'm actually dealing with such an instance right now in a female friendship of 40 years and it shocks me what her husband will accept. I met this girl in nursery school and her recent manipulations I thought would be the last straw for her husband of 20 years, but that is not the case.

Just wanted to add my two cents: Husband #1 was classic emotional abuser (with a bit of physical abuse thrown in). He was forever putting me down, because he wasn't happy with himself; overly jealous; sarcastic; nothing I ever did was right. And I kept waiting for him to return to the guy I'd first met...

Husband #2 was a lot more subtle. While he complimented me (even on the day we decided to end our marriage), he also made me feel as if nothing I did was good enough - he didn't like me knitting (I looked like an old lady); he didn't like the fact that I was in work clothes when he came home (he came home 15 minutes after me, and I was always starting dinner). It really wears on you. I had no idea how much of "me" I'd lost until we were over.

And yes, I learned this behavior from a young age. I watched my mom try to do everything for my physically and emotionally abusive father, and he left her for a girlfriend. It took me to get into counseling to learn that I was always seeking approval; trying to be good enough to be loved. Even now, I have to watch myself, because I want to do all sorts of nice things for people I care about, without giving myself a thought.

As for "seeking out bullies, because we think they can protect us" YES. I have always wanted to feel safe in my adult relationships, to be protected. Do I think I have "daddy" issues? Yes, I do. I never was a daddy's girl; my dad never adored me (and still doesn't), and I've spent my whole life trying to deal with that abuse.

I think I've observed a transitionary group of males, ones who stick with whatever bizarre female manipulations because they over-identify with the struggles women have had to be recognised so perhaps they cut them some slack.
Hmmm, sounds familiar.

((redvixen))