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04 November 2009

Now Maine votes to take away civil rights. [More:]I don't have words, I'm so sad and angry and bewildered. Thanks for taking away my rights again. Thanks for the fucking slap in the face/soul again, you slim majority of self-righteous, ignorant, hypocritical bigots.

I don't know why I'm so angry. It's not like I expected the outcome to be any different.
#$%^&*.

The news from Maine had been so optimistic...I didn't realize the result would be this close.
posted by mdonley 04 November | 02:26
I even got a robocall from Lily Tomlin the night before the election.
posted by JanetLand 04 November | 05:50
.

Also losses in Virginia with this man now governor:
At age 34, two years before his first election and two decades before he would run for governor of Virginia, Robert F. McDonnell submitted a master's thesis to the evangelical school he was attending in Virginia Beach in which he described working women and feminists as "detrimental" to the family. He said government policy should favor married couples over "cohabitators, homosexuals or fornicators." He described as "illogical" a 1972 Supreme Court decision legalizing the use of contraception by unmarried couples.


Wins:

Washington State (hopefully!)

Kalamazoo, MI

Chapel Hill, NC

Austin, TX




posted by Stewriffic 04 November | 06:37
This is why the state-by-state, patchwork approach to marriage equality is bullshit and will not work. It's also why, on the most fundamental level, putting civil rights up for a vote is morally wrong.

I've had a knot in my stomach all morning about this, even though I expected the outcome, too. American voters, it seems, just CAN'T resist yet another opportunity to remind us that we're second-class citizens.
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 08:50
I had such high hopes for Maine, too. :(
posted by gaspode 04 November | 09:00
I went to bed with there being a very slim margin. I guess I expected this outcome, though. right now I'm too shocked to feel anything.

I don't know, right now, what is worse, That the law was reversed or that we still think a person's basic rights are in anyone's hands to grant or remove.

posted by MonkeyButter 04 November | 09:12
BOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo
posted by rmless2 04 November | 09:17
Remember what Leviticus says about lobster.
posted by ColdChef 04 November | 10:07
That expectations in the Maine referendum differed so strongly from reality suggests to me that perhaps the right people weren't being canvassed or spoken to.

It's unfortunate for sure, but I think it needs to be taken as a challenge to figure out who the critical 2-5% are and what their concerns are. As distasteful as that may be, I don't think this is something that's going to get ramrodded down via the court system (nor am I entirely convinced that's really the most productive way to go about things in terms of actual de facto social acceptance, as opposed to de jure legality, but I get that nobody likes being told to be patient when their rights are on the line).

Still too bad. I always liked the somewhat libertarian-leaning conservatism of northern New England and had thought that this would fly, based on my time there.
posted by Kadin2048 04 November | 10:07
I don't think this is something that's going to get ramrodded down via the court system (nor am I entirely convinced that's really the most productive way to go about things in terms of actual de facto social acceptance, as opposed to de jure legality, but I get that nobody likes being told to be patient when their rights are on the line).

When has there ever been an advance in civil rights in this country where the majority wanted it before it was forced on them legally?

Women's suffrage? Voting rights for blacks? School integration? Interracial marriage? Reproductive choice?

I think you'll find that most of us who want marriage equality couldn't care less if we ever have social acceptance. Ever.
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 10:16
You know, I don't often feel like I *learn things* from television shows, but holy hell, Mad Men brought something into stark reality for me a few weeks ago when Betty Draper just casually mentioned to her maid that "maybe now is just not the right time for civil rights". My jaw dropped so hard, and for some reason, even though I had obviously intellectually made the connection, I really *felt* the craziness of telling a whole group of people that maybe they should just shut up and behave and maybe sometime they will get some basic civil rights and maybe sometime in the future will be equal.
posted by gaspode 04 November | 10:40
In my lifetime, my marriage would have been illegal in many states, and recent news stories have shown that social acceptance of our relationship still can't be taken for granted. That's why the MrsMoonPie and I went down to the National Equality March a few weeks ago, with a sign we hastily put together. The reaction was amazing.
posted by mrmoonpie 04 November | 11:03
*sigh*
posted by danf 04 November | 11:07
Actually, (as usual) The Rude Pundit sums it up pretty well:


There's only one way this goes: finally, a Supreme Court case is gonna have to decide the issue. This bullshit piecemeal approach is wrong-headed and degrading. Gay citizens in the United States are begging straight citizens to be kind enough to grant them the same rights. Put "female" or "black" in there, and we wouldn't even be having a discussion.
posted by gaspode 04 November | 11:32
Let's just revoke that socialist Medicare so all these dinosaurs die out already.
posted by Eideteker 04 November | 11:37
That quote nails it, gaspode.
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 11:37
Thanks, gaspode. On a much less important note, I'd completely forgotten about the Rude Pundit, and am glad to have been reminded.

And AWESOME SIGN, mr&mrsmoonpie!
posted by treepour 04 November | 11:46
This is so infuriating and sad at the same time. I just don't know how to take the country I live in....

*curses*
posted by mightshould 04 November | 11:48
Wow, this is shameful.

When has there ever been an advance in civil rights in this country where the majority wanted it before it was forced on them legally?

Exactly.
This is from an excellent speech (you should read it!) by our former Prime Minister Paul Martin, in support of the subsequently passed Bill C-38, our Civil Marriage Act:

The Charter was enshrined to ensure that the rights of minorities are not subjected, are never subjected, to the will of the majority. The rights of Canadians who belong to a minority group must always be protected by virtue of their status as citizens, regardless of their numbers. These rights must never be left vulnerable to the impulses of the majority.

Say what you will about the success of his tenure as PM and all his other screw-ups but I think he nailed it with that speech. Then the Conservative Harper came in and tried a few times to re-open the debate but was voted down. Not trying to be the smug Canadian guy, just saying that, ya, voting isn't the way to go on this one.

And mrmoonpie, that was fantastic. What an awesome thing to do.
posted by chococat 04 November | 12:39
Maybe I was too smug.
I was just waving goodbye to my daughter and watching her walk back to school after lunch and a pigeon up on the hydro wires shit on my head.
posted by chococat 04 November | 12:53
When has there ever been an advance in civil rights in this country where the majority wanted it before it was forced on them legally?

Women's suffrage? Voting rights for blacks? School integration? Interracial marriage? Reproductive choice?


This, this, this. I wrote my state senators early on in the process urging them to DO THEIR DAMN JOBS and not let this question go to a referendum, to stand up for equality and against bigotry, to protect the civil rights of all our citizens.

A bigoted society will not vote against its fears and prejudices. For this reason, a civil rights issue must not go to a popular vote.

I recognize that there will always be bigots of one stripe or another, but we shouldn't shape our laws and rights to conform to their bigotry. I am so very ashamed of my state right now, ashamed that the bigots have won (for now) and that they are celebrating in the spotlight instead of hiding their filthy views in the dark.

I spent most of this election season helpless on the couch, hobbled by back trouble, so I couldn't volunteer for the marriage equality movement. I'm pledging now that I will find a way to volunteer next time, and work hard to get equality for all our citizens.
posted by Elsa 04 November | 14:19
It's like a new version of the Bradley effect. Folks won't tell pollsters that they're bigoted, but they'll vote it. So sad and infuriating.
posted by AwkwardPause 04 November | 14:21
I don't usually like the guy, but Andrew Sullivan has some excellent points and well-timed words of wisdom on the issue today.

The hard truth is: people are still afraid of this, and our opponents knew how to target their fears very precisely. They have honed it to an art - their prime argument now is that although adults can handle gay equality, children cannot. And so they play straight to heterosexuals whose personal comfort with gay people is fine but who sure don't want their kids to turn out that way. One way to prevent kids turning out that way, the equality opponents argue, is to ensure that they never hear of gay people, except in a marginalized, scary, alien fashion. And this referendum was clearly a vote in which the desire to keep gay people invisible trumped the urge to treat them equally.
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 14:46
Folks won't tell pollsters that they're bigoted, but they'll vote it. So sad and infuriating.

This... had not occurred to me.

It sounds all too probable.
posted by Elsa 04 November | 14:49
What I wrote on FB: It's hard to articulate the pain of living in a community that puts civil rights on the ballot and then votes to take them away. In history books people will read about Prop 8 and Prop 1 and shake their heads at the callousness. It's just so mean. We -- Californians who were and still are heartbroken and traumatized ...by Prop 8 -- love you Mainers now heartbroken. I had so hoped you would have a different ending.
posted by Claudia_SF 04 November | 14:54
I wrote my state senators early on in the process urging them to DO THEIR DAMN JOBS and not let this question go to a referendum


Unfortunately, there isn't any way for the legislature to not let something go to referendum -- in Maine, any law passed can go to referendum (called a people's veto) if the procedures are followed and enough signatures are obtained. It's part of the state constitution.
posted by JanetLand 04 November | 15:12
Thanks for the correction, JanetLand. So what can they do, other than urge their constituents to vote for equality?
posted by Elsa 04 November | 15:19
One coffee and a breath of fresh air later, I reviewed my letters to the state senators and see that I urged them to vote yes on LD 1020 for marriage equality and no to a referendum, following the phrasing urged by Equality Maine... but that was before the petitions started circulating. That's slightly different than what I said upthread.

So, no matter what the state government does, the bigots can still call for a crucial civil rights question to be put to a popular vote? Legally speaking, where's the short-circuit for this loop? At what point does the court step in and stop the process?
posted by Elsa 04 November | 15:37
The Feds are just going to have step up to the plate. Period.
Civil rights shouldn't be handled by individual States. Period.
posted by deborah 04 November | 16:30
So, no matter what the state government does, the bigots can still call for a crucial civil rights question to be put to a popular vote?

Yes, it's this way in California too. Kenn Starr argued that it's well within the State's constitutional limits for the majority to take away any right they please, and the Supreme Court of California agreed with him.

Scary, sickening stuff. I don't know if Maine has an equal protection clause, but if it does, the paper it's written on might as well be used for toilet paper because, just like in California, voters have exploited a constitutional loophole that renders the clause utterly meaningless.
posted by treepour 04 November | 16:31
These referenda make me feel hopeless.
posted by Luminous Phenomena 04 November | 16:44
As a boycott, I will now only consume Oregon Portlands.
posted by qvantamon 04 November | 19:36
The Feds are just going to have step up to the plate. Period.
Civil rights shouldn't be handled by individual States. Period.


Agreed.

And a note to biblethumping Downeasters: if you really want Maine to be ruled by Leviticus, we should have a serious talk about LOBSTER, DUMMIES.
posted by Elsa 04 November | 19:50
Well, there's amending Maine's constitution to remove the option for a people's veto, but, frankly, Good Luck With That.

Really, from my very nonpartisan viewpoint, I don't think the situation is all that bad. Yes, it very much sucks that the law got overturned, but the percentage is pretty close, and it's the first time out for the law, a law that I frankly was very surprised to see passed in the first place. 53% v. 47% -- that's not insurmountable. Yes, right now, the day after, it's right to mourn and be pissed, but really I think the goal is doable. Regroup, rethink, and come back at it. It's the short legislative session right now, and most everything has already been set up bill-wise, but the there's an election next year and a brand new legislature and hey, let's get it on again.

Or, as others have suggested, change the focus and go national. Might take longer but could be easier in the end.

And everybody stop yelling at Maine. 47% voted your way; that hardly makes this a hotbed of backwardness.
posted by JanetLand 04 November | 21:02
And everybody stop yelling at Maine. 47% voted your way; that hardly makes this a hotbed of backwardness.

It's definitely not all Maine's fault, but the weight is becoming crushing... 31 states have voted against marriage equality. We have 5 who did the right thing. I know some people frame it as progress, but damn, it sure doesn't feel like it.

I wonder what the numbers would have been like if we'd voted on racial integration of schools in the 1950s... better? Worse? Probably about the same, I bet.

Which is why we should not put civil rights up for a vote. But I'm repeating myself.
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 21:19
And I agree with you, BP. The 5 states who did the right thing didn't have to put it up for a vote. I would maintain that the mere fact that such things are being voted upon is AMAZING, I wouldn't have thought such a thing was possible just ten years ago, people didn't VOTE on this stuff, but I'm fully aware that that's not enough, that that's not fast enough. Please don't think I'm being heartless for encouraging people to look at the big picture -- it's easy for me, because I can get married whenever I want (willing subject found, of course).
posted by JanetLand 04 November | 21:27
a friend just sent me this link
posted by aniola 04 November | 21:58
Not at all, JanetLand- I know you're on the side of the angels on this issue. Wasn't directing any comments at you! :)
posted by BoringPostcards 04 November | 23:47
Just registering: I'm ashamed of Maine. I actually thought we had it covered - the campaign from Equality ME was SUPER strong and, I thought, really effective. It's just that these lousy groups from out of state did the same thing they did in CA, motivating church groups to get out and vote against the law.

It's a civil rights issue, and should never have been put to popular vote. We'll get beyond it. But this is just something, like racial civil rights, that is going to have to be established outside the structures which bigotry can influence. \
posted by Miko 04 November | 23:50
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