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20 January 2009

Forget Venus and Mars and meet Ms Mover and Shaker and Mr. Bob and Floater One of my closest friends is having a horrible time with her marriage and I’d like to be able to offer her some helpful advice. But I’m out of advice, so I’m turning to you people in the hopes that maybe some of you will have a fresh perspective. Be warned… there’s a truckload of back story to this.[More:]

“Eve” (my friend) is 36 and has been involved with 42-year-old “Adam” (her husband) since she was 20. They have been married for over six years. They have a 3.5 year old son and Eve is expecting their second child in May.

I’ve known Eve since high school and she is and always has been an extremely hard worker. She is very intelligent and driven and she has exceptional analytical and organizational abilities. Her career path reflects all of this, and she is in a very senior and challenging position in a field she enjoys. Adam is also quite intelligent, and like Eve, has an excellent sense of humour. But in other ways they are very different. He is very laid back, and he makes his decisions on an emotional basis. He has a hard time getting organized and gets overwhelmed very easily. His career reflects this. It took him five years of full time university studies to get a three year degree. He has spent the last 14 years in a job he does not like, that is below his abilities, and at a company where he has no chance of advancement. He does do his job well, but he has made no real effort to find another job. At one point he did receive another job offer from another company. The pay was the same and the job responsibilities were similar but he would have a chance of advancement. He turned down the job because he “didn’t want to give up his years of seniority”.

They met at university in a way that set the tone for their entire relationship. Adam had gone back to school as a mature student and was having a hard time writing his essays – the problem being that he had done a lot of reading and had lots of insights and thoughts but couldn’t organize them. He complained of this to a TA, and the TA introduced him to his friend Eve, saying she wrote good essays and perhaps she could give him some tips. Eve has been helping Adam get organized ever since.

This schism between their characters has been the cause of a lot of problems and resentment on both sides. To give you one example of a conflict between them, shortly after they got married there was a big crisis situation in Eve’s field. She had to work insane hours because of it. She therefore thought Adam should be doing more at home to ease the strain on her, since he was working far fewer hours. His response was that she had chosen that job so he didn’t see why he should have to do more housework because the job was proving too hectic at times. Meanwhile, Eve, who earns more than twice what Adam does, was supporting them financially so that Adam could use almost all of his earnings to pay down the debts he’d run up before they got married. Eve argued that Adam should support her in her career because, after all, it was keeping the roof over her head. Adam then countered that he was doing his share. It's very common for them to agree to do something and to divide up the labour... only for Adam to not do his share of it so Eve winds up having to help him.

Now, to move towards their specific current problem. When they got married over six years ago, they agreed they wanted to raise the children they planned to have in a small-town atmosphere. Eve has known for many years that Adam will never really pull his weight in terms of running a household and keeping his spending in line with their income, so she wanted to move to the small town where she grew up (let’s call it “Eden”, if that’s not too loaded a term;-)) and where her family still lives. Her family is a close-knit one and they have a very communal attitude towards helping each other, so the family support would really help her manage their household. Also the cost of living would be lower in Eden as there is very cheap childcare available and so she and Adam could live much better there than they could in the small city where they currently live. Adam agreed that they would move to Eden. They had their eye on a particular house in Eden, which was then owned by a woman in her mid-seventies. It would only be a matter of time before this elderly woman would be putting her house up for sale.

There was a lot of conflict between them at the time of their wedding. Adam said he was too in debt to contribute towards the wedding expenses. When his mother and stepfather gave him money to be used for the wedding, he put most of it towards his debts. Eve didn’t really blame him for this (as she says herself, she’s not great with money either), but she did suggest that they make some small budgetary cutbacks to save money for the wedding. She suggested, for instance, that they agree not to buy any CDs or books for the six months leading up until the wedding, which would at least save money for a number of the smaller bills. Adam refused to agree to this, and bought himself several dozen books and CDs during that time period while Eve and her parents paid for almost all of the wedding. Then there was the matter of the living arrangements. At the time of the wedding, Eve owned a house in a small Ontario city. Her parents lived in a self-contained apartment in the basement, for which they paid rent. Adam said he did not want to move into the house as he wasn’t comfortable with the idea of living with his in-laws. This is understandable, of course, but his solution for the problem was that Eve should sell the house and they should rent an apartment that would be nearer both their workplaces. Eve refused to do this because she felt home ownership would be the better financial choice for them in the long run. Moreover, her parents had loaned her the down payment for the house four years before and her father had done (and continued to do, even after Adam and Eve got married) a great deal of work on the house, so she felt it wasn’t fair to evict them only four years later when she’d agreed at the time that she would remain in the house for five years. Adam basically had to move into the house with Eve if he wanted to marry her, so he did so.

He also did very little in terms of the work of organizing the wedding. Eve basically gave up on getting him to do much and just asked him to be responsible for moving himself into her place. He couldn't do even that without her help and ended up having to pay an extra month's rent on his former apartment because he wasn't out on time.

Fast forward several years. When their first child was eight months old, the house they had wanted to buy in Eden came up for sale. The owner knew and liked Eve and especially wanted her to have it. They viewed the house, had it inspected, negotiated a price, and had the terms of purchase agreement all drawn up and ready to sign... and then Adam refused to sign the papers. He said he didn’t want to move to Eden. Eve tried to get a reason from him. Adam said they couldn’t get cable TV in Eden. Eve promised him they would get a satellite dish. Adam said they couldn’t afford it. Eve worked out a budget that showed they could afford it. Adam said it wasn’t the money. He claimed it would affect his ability to start a career because Eden is too far away from any municipal centre where he could get a good job (he could drive to his current job from Eden). He kept saying, “I don’t have ten years.” Eve argued that it would affect her career too, but it was a sacrifice she was willing to make, and she pointed out that Adam had made no effort to develop his career so it made no sense to put their lives on hold until he did. But Adam said he had to put his foot down, and he would not agree to buy the house.

Eve had to give in, and their marriage was on the rocks for quite awhile. She was furious that Adam had reneged on their agreement when she had been counting on the move to Eden for years. She went to counselling by herself, which seemed to help a little. She and her counsellor arrived at the conclusion that Adam had upset the power balance in their marriage, because Adam’s failure to do his share of the work they have to do together had previously meant that Eve could take the lead in making decisions, and they talked about some childhood stuff. Adam refused to go to counselling by himself. They did try to go to couples counselling, but the counsellor was useless. He told them not to come back because he couldn’t help them.

Eve eventually let her anger about the house in Eden go and started to look forward and try to figure out what she and Adam would do. They still live in the house she owned when they got married, but they wanted move because their house is too small for them and because they don’t at all like the school their son will be attending if they remain there. They both wanted a second child, and at Eve’s age they didn’t want to put it off too long. Fast forward two more years to last winter and spring. Eve insisted that they had to have an agreement in place about where to live before she would become pregnant again. They agreed that they would move to Eden and started looking at houses in Eden. It took awhile to find one they liked, and Eve became pregnant in the interim. Then in November they found a lovely house they liked. Adam seemed more enthusiastic about it than Eve. They toured it, had it inspected, worked out an agreement to buy it with Adam’s active participation, and then it came time to sign and …. Adam wouldn’t sign because he didn’t want to move to Eden.

Eve said he had promised to move to Eden. He said “he only promised because he didn’t want to upset her”, but now “he can’t live a lie”. She basically gave him an ultimatum (i.e., buy the house with her or she buys it alone and leaves him) and he signed and Eve put their current house up for sale. Adam claimed he was “heartbroken” because Eve was “choosing Eden and her family over him”. Then things got really hairy. He called her at work and yelled at her. He said that he’d been forced to sign the conditional agreement to buy the Eden house but she could consider that null and void because he wasn’t going through with it, and he threatened to leave Eve. He claims this is all her fault because she is “forcing her will upon him” and that when he had to move into her house at the time of their marriage it “emasculated him” and left him with “no real role” because her parents were there. He sees the first Eden house purchase fiasco as all her fault too because she tried to push him into doing something he didn’t want to do.

Since then…. They’ve been at an impasse. They’ve gotten a counsellor and been going to sessions, but there’s been no real progress in terms of coming to an agreement. They got one offer on their house last week, but it proved not to be a viable one. Then last night they got a good offer. At that point things really hit the fan. Neither of them slept last night. Eve says she cries if anyone looks at her. Adam has shut down in terms of communication, isn’t eating and left for work at 4 a.m. because he wanted to be alone.

Legally, although Eve is sole owner of the house, it is the marital home and she cannot sell it without Adam’s consent. She can buy another house on her own, but she needs the equity in her current house to do that and of course, again, she needs Adam’s consent in order to access that equity. Adam will not give in and agree to the move to Eden. Eve feels she has nothing to gain by giving in and staying in their current home for awhile longer when, as they are both agreed, they need to move.

I’ve tried to frame this situation as fairly as possible, but I suppose it’s pretty obvious whose side I’m on. I do feel Adam is in the wrong here and that he is being incredibly unfair to Eve by reneging on their agreement at the eleventh hour TWICE. I can certainly understand his not wanting to move to Eden, but if that’s the case he should have said so from the outset so they could have figured out something else. I have asked Eve what Adam DOES want to do. Basically, since Adam is frightened by the idea of a larger mortgage and hates the idea of all the work and hassle a move will entail, he wants to just stay where they are and suggests they put their children in a private school. Eve’s parents will be moving out of the basement soon and moving to Eden as Eve’s sister and her husband are building an inlaw suite for them. This will free up some space. So, it’s more or less viable, but private school for two kids will probably be more than they can afford and Eve hates the city in which they live – always has. She only bought that house with the idea that she would live there for five years until she had the money to buy a house in Eden, and ten years later, she’s still there.

Please do refrain from comments such as “she never should have married him”. It’s a bit late for that. They are married, and they have a child, and another one on the way. They don't seem to have any problems in terms of agreeing on parenting issues at least, and in non-practical matters they do have an excellent intellectual rapport — they are, under ordinary circumstances, a really fun couple to be around, and seem to enjoy each other's company a lot. A chorus of “DTMFA” also won’t be helpful because they both know divorce is a much more than distinct possibility at this point.

So although insights and suggestions are welcome I don’t know what you can offer besides sympathy and a prediction that this marriage is doomed either to much strife or outright failure. Which, let me tell you, is no news to anyone concerned.

I’m not sure what my question is. Maybe it’s, “how does a very logical person deal with someone who makes all their decisions on an emotional basis”, or “How does a mover and a shaker work with a bob and floater”? I’ve never had any success myself in dealing with people who make all their decisions on an emotional basis. I get very frustrated when someone insists on making the emotional choice even though it makes no practical sense, and especially when they won’t even take responsibility for the consequences of doing so. If any of you have had success in this type of interaction, I’d love to hear about it.
This couple really needs to give counselling another go. It sounds like their personality clashes wouldn't be so dramatic and disastrous if they were effectively communicating with each other, which is clearly not happening right now. It sounds like both of them brought a lot of baggage to the relationship that was never dealt with. It's a troubling sign that he's unwilling to give counselling a try. It doesn't sound like that leaves them with many options, besides Eve moving to Eden without Adam and giving both of them some time to work through his issues. In other words, a separation.

MuddDude and I have very different decision-making styles, and that does lead to conflicts. Neither of us is strictly emotional or strictly logical, but we definitely weight those factors differently. Basically, we work through disagreements by talking them over until we're so sick of the conversation that we settle on something that doesn't make either of us too unhappy. But this is based on the agreement that we will BOTH make sacrifices to make the other person happy, and that we'll try to honestly listen to each other and be honest about our feelings and motivations. It sounds to me like Adam bringing an honest assesment of his feelings to the table. If he's not willing to say, "I don't want to move because I like it here and it's too much of a hassle" BEFORE Eve starts contract negotiations on a new house, then both of them are sort of in a bind!
posted by muddgirl 20 January | 13:30
They are currently seeing a counsellor and the counsellor has zeroed in on Adam, but he's still not budging. He will see a joint counsellor, but won't go by himself, because he insists he doesn't have a problem.

He does want to move but doesn't want a larger mortgage or the hassle of moving. Figure out how that's going to happen if you can.

It seems to me that the only way Adam ever does anything he doesn't want to do is if he absolutely has to. Eve says he'll only get a new job if he loses the one he has. He only moved in with her at the time of her marriage because she wouldn't move out, so it was either move in with her or forego getting married. Then he agreed to move to Eden the second time because he wanted Eve to agree to get pregnant. I told her it's a shame she didn't insist on moving to Eden before she got pregnant — it would have given her some leverage.
posted by Orange Swan 20 January | 13:41
I don't know, from your description, I feel pretty bad for Adam. It sounds like he's a nice laid-back guy who's pretty content with his lot in life and doesn't buy into Eve's ambitions.
posted by octothorpe 20 January | 14:12
I don't think Adam is content with his life. He doesn't like his job. He says he doesn't feel he's accomplished much in his life. He's unhappy about their finances. He complains about their marriage. But he won't do anything constructive about any of these things, and Eve does much more than half the housework and child care.
posted by Orange Swan 20 January | 14:25
Eve's got a problem too, and that's that she's been enabling this stuff for so many years. She's made a tremendous number of bad choices in this relationship, and has stepped into the vacuum over and over to fix problems and make decisions. She's gone back on a number of her own stipulations and agreements. She's weakened and changed her stance multiple times and done perhaps too much work to make things fit her mold. The relationship even seems to have begun with a rescue; she may have fallen into a frequent trap that capable people end up in, which is seeing their ability to sort things out and achieve well as such a source of value that they seek self-worth and find power in feeling they can do it for others. So she's certainly not blameless in this situation - she's volunteered for it right along. Yes, they both need counseling, but if he won't go, so be it. She needs to continue to go, and I sure hope her counselor is pushing herself to start setting boundaries and sticking to them and acting in her own best interest, letting go of her obsession with managing his every move and thought.

I also feel a little ickier than usual reading so many intimate details of someone's life - maybe because generally, when we hear them, they're being posted by a person who's actually in the situation. Would it be OK with her that you asked this here?

To the general question, how does an ambitious person deal with a more slack person? Well, by establishing your baseline boundaries for living, things you absolutely need to have happen so that you can live happily enough, and then sticking to them. Those boundaries can range from requests about how and when the kitchen is cleaned up, to what amount of time you should spend with which friends and family, to the way we make plans together and stick to them. Decide what the priorities are and judge each situation on the priorities: is this thing I want him to do something that is really a hot-button issue for me, or just something that would be nice? Does it matter that much to me how he folds the laundry or spends his discretionary income, or should I save my energy for working on childrearing or major-purchase stuff? And this kind of partnership calls for some serious understanding and support of one another. They don't have the same approach to life at all, but if they don't share even baseline values for what they'd like their future to look like, they don't have great potential for success, and that's okay. They married young. But if they do share baseline values (like the relative rank of family, job, community involvement, financial security) then there's not really anywhere for them to start.

posted by Miko 20 January | 14:33
I began by feeling bad for Adam... I know it would be extremely stressful (and an awful match!) for me to be with a Type A personality. But the fact is that whether it's his actual personality, or whether he feels that he's been cornered into being this way, his personality is far from "laid-back" in the usual sense. He's willful, obdurate, and sly - at least so far as these decisions concerning the moving and having another baby are concerned.

Maybe there are reasons for that. Maybe other techniques of persuasion have been futile. Maybe he feels he's given over the power in every decision, and that the earning inequity has meant that he can no longer speak out directly when he disagrees, because it will be marshalled against him. etc.

I don't know, but it's obvious that what it comes down to is how important it is for either side to "win". If I had to bet money, I'd say that if she's totally set on winning, all she has to do is go to Eden, whatever way she can finagle it. Rent a place, whatever. Tell him that they better separate, and think about things, and she's going there. Dollars to donuts he will follow, and eventually, in just about the most difficult way, she will get what she wants. But at what cost? Even further erosion in his belief that he has a legitimate equal voice in decisions. Further resentment (and whatever the causes, it seems that there is a lot of resentment on both sides).

If he's dead set on winning, he needs to make it as financially difficult as possible (re: selling their house, and so on) for her to unilaterally go on her own. Plus her pregnancy means that she's not in great shape to be trying to deal with a lot of physical effort and emotional strain. He needs to make her feel stuck. And again, for what gain? So he gets to stay in a house he never wanted to move into in the first place?

They've pitched the battle on this one issue, and it's not even this decision that matters so much to them, I think - it's the showdown now. It's the war of the wills. The big one.

They are fighting over a silly thing, really - which place do they want to be miserable in? Because the way they've set it up, either of these two choices will mean smoldering anger on somebody's side. If they actually want to save the marriage, they need to negotiate a plan C. Or D., E., F. They need to both unstick their fixed ideas and work together to figure out a new thing.

I don't blame him for not wanting to go to Eden. It's just going to totally consolidate all the power on her side, with her town, and her family, and her old friends, and her old stomping grounds. He totally sucks for agreeing and then reneging... twice! But I can see his reluctance.

She shouldn't have to stay in a place she doesn't like, either. Feeling tricked and trapped certainly isn't going to mellow her out. If either one of them cares the least little bit about those feelings on the other side, and want to stay together, they need to work out something else. There are very rarely only two choices, and certainly not in this instance.
posted by taz 20 January | 14:53
I love bunnies so much. Taz pretty much said what I was trying to say, only more insightfully.
posted by muddgirl 20 January | 14:56
Would it be OK with her that you asked this here?

Yes, she knows. And I was very careful to post non-identifying details. I also chose to post this detailed question here rather than in the snake put that AskMe can be sometimes because I didn't care to deal with the kind of ripping apart the story would get there.

Great answer, Taz.
posted by Orange Swan 20 January | 15:05
I think they both need a good night's sleep.

Other than that, I'm completely unqualified to comment on these issues. But the sleep thing is step one no matter what.
posted by Hugh Janus 20 January | 15:06
I'm with the counsellor who thinks Adam needs to see a counsellor on his own. When I first read your story, I concluded similarly as taz and octothorpe, however your response leads me to suspect a moderate case of depression. Either way, Miko's perspective has great merit and Eve will have to finance all future solutions on her own, so hopefully she is continually looking to advance her own career in terms of income. Eventually they will have to hire a nanny and a maid.
posted by Ardiril 20 January | 15:08
Hm, depression's possible, yes. I can't emphasize enough, though, that when there are family members, and both need counseling, and ideally they need counseling both together and alone, and one person refuses to go alone, then the other needs to go anyway and work with the therapist on their own. This happens in lots of situations and, at some point, you just have to start figuring out what's within your control, what's your business, what your choices are, and work on that. If the other spouse wants to get in on the process at some point, great, but it's not worthwile to wait on them. Some people never come around and it would be a pity if the other party used that as an excuse not to make decisions for themselves.
posted by Miko 20 January | 15:16
How about she works and he quits his dead-end job and raises the kids? Then he can learn what a help nearby extended family can be, and learn to love the house the way one does when one is home all the time.

See what I mean about my bad advice? But really, that's the secret to my brother's happiness. His wife is the one with the career, and he knows as well as anyone what a great and tough job it is to raise two boys. And he doesn't have to go to a job he hates every day. Best solution out there, really. I'm a little envious, though in a good way.

But that probably isn't possible, since people in general have trouble relaxing their ways, and these people in specific seem determined to clash at their most rigid edges.
posted by Hugh Janus 20 January | 15:22
Eve would be happy to have Adam stay home and be a house husband. And he has considered it. He figures he could take courses and work on preparing himself for a re-launch into the work force in a new line of work. But I don't think he's willing to take the plunge of actually doing it.
posted by Orange Swan 20 January | 16:11
My advice to them is to not sell their house or buy a new one because that will only complicate the divorce that is surely coming.
I think their children are young enough that they won't be terribly traumatized by a divorce (compared to, say, five years from now).
This sounds somewhat similar to my own situation from a few years back, and I made the mistake of making significant financial moves (including major home renos) partly in an attempt to save the marriage, but I now wish I had just stood pat and saved some money for the legal bills and my daughter's counselling.
I feel bad for all involved, including you OS, but I really don't see any other outcome and they should prepare for it, financially and emotionally, as best they can.
posted by rocket88 20 January | 16:29
That's a real shame, it sounds to me like Adam isn't just a man who make emotional decisions but like mentioned upthread, likely depressed and probably due to previous failures to achieve his personal goals. They both need counceling (Eve has indeed been an enabler and that probably makes her feel bad, but its just as easy of a trap to fall into as depression is after getting knocked down one too many times - neither person is at fault for "starting it" but it IS their fault right now for letting their previous personal problems go on, bringing it into their union and now having children while they still have baggage). A house-husband job might be just the ticket for Adam when the new child is born - though good luck with taking courses mate, babies are such a handful! I know many men are reluctant to take that job and I fully understand why but there is no job more important and rewarding (and hard!) and a person really can grow a brand new set of skills just on staying at home the first year with baby, and gain some well needed perspective. The first year is rough, the second a cake-walk (maybe chance for courses) in comparison and the third is bliss all around. :) I'm just saying that last bit because mine is three and my ovaries are twitching again. :P
posted by dabitch 20 January | 16:36
Oh, man.

Eve is never going to get Adam to do one dang thing unless he thinks he thought of it first. Yes, Adam is in the wrong but this passive agressive behavior is his way-apparently his only way and a poor one at that-of not feeling bossed around by his wife.

My suggestion is this: Eve needs to let go of her dream to move to Eden. But with that she needs to let Adam know that he has a choice-either get serious counselling and work on his stuff or they will need to separate for a time. I am no fan of divorce but sometimes people need time to think and clear their heads.

In counselling what these two need to figure out is -what do they really want? Does Eve really want to move to Eden or does she simply need and want more help and support with the work it takes to raise and support a family? Does Adam love his wife enough to do the work it takes to help her feel supported or does he just want to take the path of least resistance till his wife has had enough and dumps the you know what already?

This is not really about a move. This is about a power struggle. They need help figuring out how to be a team and have common goals, and Adam needs a way to feel heard and not bossed around without giving him a pass for laziness and not doing his share of the work a marriage takes.

(years ago some of you know I was separated for a few months. It did wonders for our marriage. My husband did gain some important insights and we both were able to really think about what we wanted and needed our marriage to be. Hopefully this couple can reconnect about why they came together to begin with. But it won't happen till they both drop the rope in this tug of war and start being totally, totally honest with one another and with a trained skilled counselor. I recommend one who specializes in family systems.)
posted by bunnyfire 21 January | 10:29
I don't know, but it's obvious that what it comes down to is how important it is for either side to "win".

this

I think they both need a good night's sleep.

and this

This is not really about a move. This is about a power struggle. They need help figuring out how to be a team and have common goals, and Adam needs a way to feel heard and not bossed around without giving him a pass for laziness and not doing his share of the work a marriage takes.


definitely this

Two good books for them:
"Things Just Haven't been the same" - talking about transitioning from couplehood to parenthood.
"Debt-proof your marriage" - about how both can talk about money and make plans.

It won't work if one or both refuse to even read the books, much less work through them. That's my bitter life experience, and why I'm doing the divorce thing now.

They need rest, affirmation from friends but not "spoling" ("s/he's just a jerk","s/he never loved you","s/he'll never change").

They both need to figure out what they want. Really want - where do they as individuals want to be in five years? What do the pictures look like and do they match at all? Are they realistic? After all that, then maybe they can talk about whether they want to stay together.

Some wisdom from a songwriter

In our efforts to break through
the thick walls of pride
with harsh words that burned to the core,

the walls still remained
but the words broke inside
and strengthened the walls even more

I'm not saying there's no hope. There's always hope. It's just not going to end up the way either of them wants it, because they've both painted themselves into opposite corners.

posted by lysdexic 21 January | 13:06
Oh, and I totally understand wanting to be fair, and that's great. You can help Eve with perspectives that she might not see and might not at first appreciate.

It's also great that you know who's "side" you're on. Be sure to take care of yourself and not get into the middle of the fights.
posted by lysdexic 21 January | 13:10
Good advice from bunnyfire there - "power struggle" does seem to sum it up.
posted by Miko 21 January | 13:34
I think this whole thing is just a clever ruse for you to use "Adam," "Eve" and "Eden." Are the kids named Cain and Abel?
I'm only kidding.

Part of me immediately sides with Adam because, sorry, I'd be quite upset if my wife's friend posted her version of my life on a website for people to debate.
We had an old friend who lived with us when we bought our first house, which helped us pay the mortgage, and it got back to us that she was telling all kinds of stories about our marriage (or her perception of it) to lots of people we knew. She's not really our friend anymore.
Yes, it's clear who's side you're on and it's great that you're so worried about your friend but my advice is to be really careful about this kind of stuff. For sure, support your friend but try not to insert yourself in there too much if you can.

The main thing I took away from your story is that the guy really doesn't want to move to Eden. Clearly. I'd say she needs to let Eden go, big time. (Weren't they banned from there anyway?) Seems like her whole motivation for moving there in the first place was to curb a certain behaviour of his that she didn't like. One might say that she knew what he was like from the get-go, in fact that's how they met, so perhaps she's trying a little too hard to change him? I don't know either of them so I can't say.

Also, this scares me:
Eve would be happy to have Adam stay home and be a house husband. And he has considered it. He figures he could take courses and work on preparing himself for a re-launch into the work force in a new line of work.

I'm a stay-at-home Dad and I'd say it's a BIG mistake to make the decision to stay home and take care of your kids based on the perception that it's a chance for some self-improvement work or a time to "get stuff done." If you go into it with that attitude you will hate it and you'll end up resenting your kids when they are inevitably whiney or sick or won't have that one-hour nap you were counting on so you could "work." Some days it's all you can do to empty the dishwasher or make dinner.
posted by chococat 21 January | 14:10
Yeah, taz really hit it out of the ballpark with her analysis. But I am not sure what the third way would be and I feel so bad for Eve that the future they had planned and agreed on together keeps being derailed by his complaints without him actually coming up with any solutions (besides keeping to the staus quo she is unhappy about).

The parental leave in ON can be shared by the parents so after her four month maternity leave Eve might want to go back to work and have Adam stay at home - my husband is doing that with our latest babe and it has eliminated all financial arguments while letting him feel he is financially contributing without the stress of a job he wasn't enjoying. I wonder if Adam might similarly change if he is away from a job he hates?
posted by saucysault 22 January | 23:50
Please to explain || I'm home!

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