call him! Totally, so many opportunities come from saying "yes."

Do it! Do it!

That is amazing.

Don't fear speaking to him. Good Christians will help you feel good about yourself no matter your faith. That man is a good Christian. :)

Damn. I guess I suck as a Christian because people never say that about me.




Oh, and yes, totally get on This American Life! =)

Maybe he just wants to see your boobs.

/not a good christian

This American Life all the way.

He probably wants to work harder on saving your eternal soul, as he sees it. That's no reason not to talk to him if you feel like it, but you might as well get something out of it, too, so yes! TAL.

Oddly, I've never really borne a grudge against those who want to save my eternal soul (and I've had more than my share of offers), it's just thier way of saying Hello. I answer the same way I'd answer a sexual overtone from a gay guy: I'm flattered, but no thanks. Can we still be friends?

Usually you can only be friends if you don't mind the person trying to save your soul all the time. Unfortunately, the ones I'm acquainted with never ever stop. Even if you tell them 'no thanks' they generally continue praying for you, passive-aggressively. At least that is done in private, so you don't have to be privy to it, but the whole thinig does tend to color the interactions you have. Generally, you end up as two individuals who have vastly different outlooks on your relationship to one another.

They often think you've misunderstood something and just need a better explanation. You gave this guy reasons why you're agnostic, TL, so he's going to work on reasoning you out of them by explaining how he would interpret God's purpose for the death, etc.

Usually you can only be friends if you don't mind the person trying to save your soul all the time.

I can live with that. And 'born again Christian' covers a huge swath of people with pretty big differences of opinion. And Christianity has inspired too much great art, music, and genuine moments of decency for me to write it off blithely. And while my belief in a supreme being is (*crosses self*) agnostic, my morality is incurably Roman Catholic, so there you go.

The differences among Christians of the born-again variety aren't all that big. If they're using that language they're a specific subset of Christianity.

But you take me wrong if you think I write Christianity off blithely - I am Christian, and certainly agree with all you say about its cultural contributions. But I've got no patience whatever for proselytizers - see last week's monster thread on same.

And don't mind me, I'm a huge misanthrope this week.

But I've got no patience whatever for proselytizers - see last week's monster thread on same.

Sure, but I could say the same thing about secular ideologues, since quite frankly they grate on me for the same reasons and blablabla..

in the end the most Catholic thing about me is that just about every utterance of mine is prefaced with the thought 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone...." if you know what I mean

Miko, just tell those friends that no one ever got bullied into faith.

Before I became born again myself, (back when I was in art school) there were some folks from the church down the street that used to come on campus, go right into the men's dorm, and tell everyone they were going to hell, and other such cheerful stuff. They used to tell us gals how wrong we were to be in the dorm to begin with (most of us were just doing homework together,seriously. )

I got in one guy's face and put it like this:

"look, you could set a table and put a beautiful steak dinner in front of me and I might decide I wanted to eat it. But if you took that steak and tried to cram it down my throat I guarantee I wouldn't want it."

I have to admit it was a surreal moment when a year or so later I ran into one of those guys after I myself became bornagain. We had a nice chat. He was pretty meek. Not at all how he was at our first encounter...but my point is, no one could or did bully me into it. I don't believe it can be done. Altho deep inside I always wanted God I detested being pushed into it. And when the time came for me, no one was pushing.

Feel free to share that story if you think it might help.

there were some folks from the church down the street that used to come on campus, go right into the men's dorm, and tell everyone they were going to hell, and other such cheerful stuff.

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of people in order to be noticed by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So whenever you give to the poor, don't blow a trumpet before you like the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets so that they will be praised by people. I tell you with certainty, they have their full reward!

Miko, just tell those friends that no one ever got bullied into faith.

I'll admit up front that I haven't delved much farther into this thread than this comment and the one it addresses. I am quite comfortable, however, in calling bullshit on the statement I just quoted.

People are bullied into "faith" every damn day. You want to argue that the native Americans weren't bullied into the Christian faith? Maybe there's some inherent weakness in those who are bullied that makes them swallow the bait, but that doesn't make the people who cram it down their throats any less bullish.

To be clear: Being told that you will go to hell unless you are XYZ, or unless you change XYZ, isn't truth-sharing, no matter how strongly you believe it. It's bullying. It is, I'd 475g63 HEY LOOK, KITTENS ARE TYPING! I'd argue, the ultimate form of bullying.

I know what you're getting at mudpuppie - but I don't think that was the point that bunnyfire was trying to make. I think it was more a condemnation of the tactics of shove-it-down-your-throat Christians, than trying to defend them.

I get cross when anyone tries to bully me into agreeing with them, no matter what it is that they're trying to bully me into.

Also - kittens trying to type = teh kyoot. :)

Feel free to share that story if you think it might help.

No, I don't think it'll help. Usually these conversations really aren't as smooth or easily resolved as we all might like. We aren't all fortunate enough to have enlightened Christians to deal with.

there were some folks from the church down the street that used to come on campus, go right into the men's dorm, and tell everyone they were going to hell, and other such cheerful stuff.

= not good Christians

I think your awesome, doohickie! You are kind and helpful, so :P

I'm flattered, but no thanks. Can we still be friends?

I kinda like that. And being in Texas, that line might come in handy.