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07 October 2008

Exhausted! But-Sarah Palin rocked the house toNIGHT!!!
→[More:] We left Fayetteville a little after 12. Stopped at a Waffle House in Smithfield for a quick lunch-got there to ECU about three or so and the line was already pretty long.

While we waited for the doors to open (at 4) we were treated to vendors going up and down the lines with clever campaign buttons. I already had my button and my pink Palin hat, but I did buy another button depicting McCain as Mr.Clean. (I met the real Mr Clean years ago, so I couldn't resist.)

Went thru security, where we ALL got wanded. The security was tighter than for my son's graduation at USAFA. (and Dubya was there, if you recall.) We got in and had the choice of either standing for hours on the floor, or being seated (and in our case, it was being seated behind the speaker's podium.) I'm almost AARP age so to the seats we went.

We were a genial and rowdy crowd. We were warmed up by such as the Republican nominee for NC governor (who I had just seen in Fayetteville Sunday night for a dinner and forum) and Elizabeth Dole (whose opponent is getting a lot of her campaign funding from some dude in New!York! City!)

Finally, Sarah arrived. I have never. EVER. seen an individual greeted so loudly and enthusiastically as Sarah Palin. She wore a white jacket, slim black skirt and shiny black pumps. Unfortunately, we were behind her, but we could see her on the jumbotron as she spoke. I did think to start recording her on my cellphone-my pictures were crap but hubby took some with his digital camera so hopefully his are better. I will try to get them up on Flickr in a day or so. After she spoke she shook hands with folks and signed autographs on the floor (sorry, I never made it down there. We had a friend with us who had brought his schoolaged son so we had to think about getting back.)

Afterwards the parking lot was stagnant till the motorcade left, which afforded my husband the opportunity to sell a stack of campaign signs from the trunk of our car. We sold them all and could have sold a stack more. Suddenly we heard cheers and I realized the motorcade was heading past where we were parked-so I ran like a fool and got to the side of the road in time to wave madly at the motorcade with my pink Palin hat.

One odd note-the Secret Service seemed to be dressed a tad more casual-one of them had on a pretty loud green tie. Not the usual men-in-black look we all know and love.

Oh, and there were tons of media, of course-one news crew was there from Japan!

On the way home we found the debate on the radio but as some of you have noted it was on the boring side. So we turned it off and spent the remainder of the journey either listening to our rider snore or swapping lines from O Brother Where Art Thou.

Now I must go get some rest as I have to have my daughter downtown for a second day of jury duty tomorrow....zzzzzzzz....
post by: bunnyfire at: 23:47 | 104 comments
It sounds like it was a great success. Gov. Palin is a real celebrity now - not a bad thing, I don't think. It must be completely overwhelming for her but she has a real talent being in front of people, I think. I can't even begin to imagine what the last 6 weeks have been like for her.
posted by MonkeyButter 08 October | 00:15
"clever campaign buttons"
"We were a genial and rowdy crowd"
"She wore a white jacket, slim black skirt and shiny black pumps."

So did she talk about anything?
posted by arse_hat 08 October | 00:19
So did she talk about anything?

Would anyone have noticed?
posted by puke & cry 08 October | 00:41
If a VP falls in the forest...
posted by arse_hat 08 October | 00:43
The Palin/McCain campaign isn't about talking about things. It's about gibberish, angry old man yelling, and advocating for the assassination of your rivals. Just like the Founding Fathers intended.
posted by cmonkey 08 October | 00:45
Any "suggestions" from the crowd that Obama be killed again? Or were folks on better behavior today, seeing how well that sort of thing seems to go down in getting voters to swing McCain's way?
posted by scody 08 October | 01:19
So did she talk about anything?

They went to see her, not listen to what she has to say.
posted by Daniel Charms 08 October | 01:23
I'm glad you had a nice time.

She's definitely an interesting character. Not my cup of tea, but I do think that if she were running on the Left, then she'd be revered as much by liberals as she appears to be revered by conservatives.

I'm guessing that she talked about the things that all politicians (of whatever stripe) talk about in these situations. It'll be the national rhetoric ramped up in the areas which are likely to win over the local crowd. Nothing interesting.

What is interesting is the love that's being showered her way from the right. Whatever the outcome of the election, I severely doubt that any American will ever be hampered again from becoming president on account of her being a woman. You can invoke Hillary here, but this is the Conservative right. They've a woman nominated to be vice president, and they're sending a strong signal that they don't even care.
posted by seanyboy 08 October | 02:30
I expect Palin to someday move to a strong Republican state and run for US Senator. McCain does not expect to win; tonight he just went through the motions. Palin is being groomed.
posted by Ardiril 08 October | 02:39
Aside from her shiny pumps and cute winks, why do you like her so much? Honest question.
posted by Specklet 08 October | 03:37
Reasons why I think people like her.
- X Factor. Undefinable, but she's just likeable.
- Democrats hate her & that makes republicans happy.
- The "Good Ole Boy" Shtick.
- Pretty, but in that serious librarian way.
- She's different from the old white guys that run the country.
- She tells everyone that she's just like us. And people believe that.
posted by seanyboy 08 October | 03:52
bunnyfire, we don't agree politically but I want to give you a great big hug because I am so glad someone else is enjoying politics as much as I do!
posted by By the Grace of God 08 October | 04:40
Aside from her shiny pumps and cute winks, why do you like her so much? Honest question

She wants to clear out political corruption. I know for a fact that politics is lousy with it. And she's enough of a newcomer so that she's almost certainly not afflicted with it herself.

Then, she espouses my values in general.

Thirdly, anyone who can do what she has done-rising from PTA mom to governor like she has while taking on her own party machinery in the process-that, my friends, is a sign of SOMETHING.

She simply isn't business as usual.

(By the way, and off topic, the guy that came with us was practically drooling over her. It mystifies me, but the woman has sex appeal, apparently.)
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 06:58
Oh yeah...she basically gave the same speech she gave in Florida yesterday morning. Typical stump speech. You generally don't expect to hear anything new at these types of events.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 07:00
Ah, bunnyfire. I imagine (please correct me if I'm wrong) that you believe 'Troopergate' is, rather than a stark example of Sarah Palin's political corruption, merely the mean ol' Democrats trying to bring her down.
posted by Fuzzy Monster 08 October | 07:05
- Democrats hate her & that makes republicans happy.

I swear that's the main motivating factor for 90% of the right-wing's decisions. Anything that can piss off "those libs" is a good thing.
posted by octothorpe 08 October | 07:09
So did she talk about anything?
.

- Democrats hate her & that makes republicans happy.
I highly question this as valid criteria for someone to lead a country. This is not a football game or a reality TV show. And yeah - Troopergate (among other things) is indicative that she is not as squeaky clean as you think, bunnyfire.

I've concluded that people are going to believe whatever they want to believe, and logic and thought is irrelavent because it's too much work. That, and they'll never connect it with our current vast economic and global relationship problems.

posted by chewatadistance 08 October | 07:40
When I am convinced I am hearing a totally unbiased story re Troopergate, I might care.

You forget-I have a lot of experience knowing that reality and media report of reality are two vastly different things. And I also know when it comes to politics, people lie or tell only the parts of the truth that back THEM up. The chance the average person has about hearing the truth about anything is pretty doggone low.

As far as "mean old Democrats" if they are anything like the Democrats in North Carolina, they are total masters of crooked politics....if I could push a button and the depths of political corruption in our system could be totally revealed, you'd all collapse in sobbing heaps. It's that dang bad, folks.

I'm desperate enough to give Palin a chance.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 09:03
but I do think that if she were running on the Left, then she'd be revered as much by liberals as she appears to be revered by conservatives.

Heh. I logged in during class to respond.
No.
A thousand times no.
At least not by me.

I'm sure she's a very nice woman (she seems to be) and all that but dear lord I still wouldn't want her as my candidate of choice's running-mate. I'd just be more embarrassed for/about her now than I already am. She really is in over her head, and I'm sorry got involved.

I'm desperate enough to give Palin a chance.
I have a friend who typically sides with the republicans on most issues, and he expressed pretty much the same sentiments. He compared it to when Kerry was running against Bush; not liking the only candidate your party offered you in the end. He and I have both changed our opinion of McCain in recent months/weeks (when the race for president was just starting out and I was getting familiarized with all the candidates, I did consider McCain as an option, but the way he ended up running his campaign, as well as how he started shifting towards more conservative positions on various issues made me change my mind). He's not desperate enough to vote Obama, but has considered moving to Canada :P

Glad you had a good time.
posted by CitrusFreak12 08 October | 09:57
...must be civil...friends....here...must cut hole in side of neck to release building asplosion....

DOGGONE....can't stop....pressure...DANG IT!...aneurysm...

SARAH PALIN IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ANYTHING IN OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM OR POLITICAL SYSTEM OTHER THAN SHEER CYNICISM AND THE STUPID GULLIBILITY OF A IGNORANT ELECTORATE!

....back. Need stitches. Talk later.
posted by Lipstick Thespian 08 October | 10:12
Looks like at least half of North Carolina voters are desperate enough to give Obama a chance. Pollster.com has the state exactly tied right now.
posted by octothorpe 08 October | 10:17
Oh and 538.com is giving 60% odds that NC will vote for Obama.
posted by octothorpe 08 October | 10:28
I'm desperate enough to give Palin a chance.

If things don't work out here, you could always relocate once Sarah and Todd have founded their new country.
posted by BoringPostcards 08 October | 10:58
but I do think that if she were running on the Left, then she'd be revered as much by liberals as she appears to be revered by conservatives.


Oh no. No, no, no. As much as I detest her political views, my real objection to her is her complete lack of gravitas, intellectual curiosity or ability to form a goddamn coherent sentence. And the conservatives don't like her either, really. I live in a heavily conservative area. Most of the people I know are republican and most of them can't stand Palin. Some will vote for Obama, others will pull the repub handle reluctantly and out of habit.

You forget-I have a lot of experience knowing that reality and media report of reality are two vastly different things.

You forget- I have a degree in journalism, friends at major news outlets and the ability to critically evaluate multiple sources. I'm sure you didn't mean to be insulting, bunnyfire, but that statement chafed a little.
posted by jrossi4r 08 October | 10:58
Bunnyfire - I know you are all up in here as the lone bunny with these sort of views, but I wonder why in the same thread, you can:

- gleefully report what Sarah Palin wore, etc.
- start throwing out all those "DOGGONES" and "DANGITS" like she does

and yet, in the same thread, say this:

I'm desperate enough to give Palin a chance.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 09:03


For me, it doesn't wash. I'm going out on a limb here and say you're not buying this Palin bullshit anymore than any of us howling hotheaded Liberals are.

The election isn't about the glossy stuff that is Palin's popularity - it's about serious topics in a time of huge crisis across the board.

Don't fall for the American Idolization of our political system, girl. You vote this woman in, and I guarantee you our country will suffer far, far worse than anything we've seen yet.


posted by Lipstick Thespian 08 October | 11:17
jrossi, between editors and sources that can, will, and do lie to you, no need to feel I was insulting you. The cards, they be stacked.

Oh, and I disagree with you on whether Palin has intellectual curiosity. Please remember that a) she was well known as a youngster for reading every single column of the newspaper and b) as a mom of five -a working mom of five-spare time to sit down and read as much as she'd like to was probably pretty darn limited. A lot of attributes that media and pundits assign to her are assuming facts not in evidence. As to gravitas, well, give me a break. That's just a way to say she is female, cute, and pleasant. Which is sexist.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 11:18
LT, without the grace of God (the actual Deity, not the fellow bunny) we are screwed no matter who we elect. The bailout just ensured that Obama if elected won't be able to keep his campaign promises unless taxes go stratospheric.

I really, really like Palin and wish her running mate were 15 years younger. Read into that what ye will.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 11:20
And I was saying daggone and dangit for longer than her, dangit-I'm older than she is and those words are definitely in my native tongue ;-)

Oh, gotta run-daughter just got rejected for jury duty. Off to get her and get coffee!
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 11:23
Yay rejection for jury duty!
posted by By the Grace of God 08 October | 11:25
If I want to discuss the politics, I'll go to politicalfilter. I know you're a fan, and I'm glad you had a chance to hear her speak.
posted by theora55 08 October | 11:27
*erases entire comment, backs out of thread*
posted by Specklet 08 October | 11:27
i have been purposefully removed from politics as much as possible, but i'd like to illustrate some simple facts, but thankfully someone else has.
Everyone saddle up and ride!
≡ Click to see image ≡
posted by ethylene 08 October | 11:40
*Backs out along with TheSpeckletF*
posted by jrossi4r 08 October | 11:41
Who needs facts when we can all do the Republican Shuffle?
Stick your finger in your ears and spin!
≡ Click to see image ≡
posted by ethylene 08 October | 11:52
she'll reverse Roe v Wade and thinks "community organizer" is a punchline (because it's code, community organizing is all about them Negroes): it's more than enough for the bunnyfires of America to vote for her -- because it's very true, Palin is indeed like the bunnyfires of America. same intellectual curiosity, same openness to those who are different, same rosy-tinted view of a perfect 1950s smalltown white America that never really existed they way they think it did (ie, Korean War, almost no women in the workplace, racial segregation in half the country & open discrimination everywhere).

so it's highly inappropriate that people here question bunnyfire's crush for Palin -- it's like she's voting for herself, for a richer (due to the proven, creative administration of her travel expenses as governor), younger, hotter, more (artificially) tanned, probably less articulate version of herself. God bless bunnyfire, really, she's found her political crush.

of course, whether America -- now that the mud races have been unjustly awarded the right to vote by legislation strongly opposed in bunnyfire's neck o' the woods -- is made up of enough bunnyfires to elect McCain and Palin to serve Bush and Cheney's third term, is entirely another question.

we'll see.
posted by matteo 08 October | 13:04
1. community organiser is actually more a code word for community communist. Not saying that's accurate, but I surely never thought of it in terms of race nor does anyone else I know. I do know people who would confuse that with liberal hippie freaks. Again, not saying that is accurate at all, but I don't get associating it with race at all. Seems silly.

2. If you are accusing me of not being intellectually curious, you certainly don't know me at ALL. Now, if "intellectually curious" is codespeak for "not Christian"....I really hope it doesn't.

3. Who says I am not open to folks who are different? Most of my time online is spent with folks who are different. I have a son in law of a different race. I have friends and acquaintances who span the gamut. Nice assumptions you have there.

4. Yes, Palin is prolife. So am I. There is a Grand Canyon sized ideological gap between folks who are prolife and the rest of you. But I see no need to paint us all as ignorant yokel racists to go with it. Because that is totally inaccurate and displays pretty stereotypical thinking. Let's be better than that.

5. If you are voting for Obama because he is "black" then who is the racist?

Why wouldn't I want to vote for someone who is biracial like my grandson-unless I DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIS POLITICS?


I see Palin as someone committed to her community and who was willing to put her money where her mouth was to make it better. Instead of whining about her leaders she became one of them in order to change what she saw needed changing. That is something to admire.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 13:44
So... what she think needed changing?

How did she change it?
posted by Fuzzy Monster 08 October | 13:58
eh. The woman is an idiot. Anyone voting her in for potential next-president is also an idiot. There's just no way to dance around these two simple and fundamental truths. I won't even try.
posted by taz 08 October | 14:03
As long as I'm asking questions...

When I am convinced I am hearing a totally unbiased story re Troopergate, I might care.

What, in your view, would be the source or sources for a 'totally unbiased story?'
posted by Fuzzy Monster 08 October | 14:09
1. so they organize Marxist communities of whites? like, where? in the suburbs? seriously? is this your point? because "community organizer" is code for "urban blacks". "community communist"? the 1950s are over, bunnyfire. as much as you'd love to bring them back.

2. I said "same intellectual curiosity" as Palin, I never said you're intellectually incurious. I said "same". Unless you think she is in fact incurious, you cannot possibly take my remark as an insult. thin skin?
if anything, I said she's _less_ articulate than you are. (by the way, since we're chatting, you admitted you don't exactly know why the US is in Iraq; every time you're challenged on mefi on one of your -- mostly loopy -- scriptural quotations you clam up and never answer. doing a bit more reading on very important topics you probably care about never hurts)

3. you've been banned, several times, by someone as fair as matt, for shamefully hateful antigay comments. you've cheered Qadafi's baby daughter killing. I rest my case.

and dragging your daughter into this? your daughter having a baby with her black boyfriend (now husband) does not make _you_, personally, any more open to anything. interracial marriage, thank God (not thank to conservatives, frankly) is legal now. unlike, say, gay marriage.

4. really lame straw man -- you said "ignorant yokel racists", I simply said you'll vote for her because she'll make abortion illegal and that's your stance. it's a very plain statement, and you admit it's true. so calm down. just like some prochoice people vote for the Democrats regardless how how much they dig the actual candidate (surprise: lots of liberals didn't really like Clinton but they thought he was the lesser evil), you're a self-defined single issue voter, Palin's against abortion even in case of rape and incest, to the right of even Dick Cheney. she's your dream antiabortion candidate. period. good for you.

5. I have no horse in this race, thank goodness.


Why wouldn't I want to vote for someone who is biracial like my grandson-unless I DIDN'T AGREE WITH HIS POLITICS?

whio cares who you vote for. seriously. you like Palin, great. you're a solid Republican vote, it's OK, I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who'd never dream of voting Republican either, it's OK, it's the nature of a blocked two party system. calm down a bit.
posted by matteo 08 October | 14:18
Thank you, matteo.
i continue to fight adding anything and posting blunt fact, but i have really been struggling with the "tolerant" saying nothing/ignoring it policy bleeding into the "lack of dissent is ultimately condoning it" way i feel.
i won't add more or highlight the obvious repeated trotting out of tokens and feigned misinterpretations, but bless you for clearing out your sinuses.
posted by ethylene 08 October | 14:27
Matteo, you are making quite a lot of assumptions about me, and insulting me, and twisting my words. By the way, this thread is not about gay marriage, nor my personal religious beliefs on the topic.
This conversation is over. I'm not playing this stupid game.

posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 14:32
I always find it interesting how often partisans of any stripe use distrust of media reporting to excuse their own candidates' shenanigans and then cite media reporting as evidence against their candidates' opponents. Cherry picking: it isn't just for illegal immigrants, anymore. Hell, without confirmation bias, I don't know that we could ever elect anybody in this country.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 08 October | 14:34
Taz, if you meant to call me an idiot, kindly be more specific so I will know that I can delete metachat from my favorites.

I guess I really am a fool for thinking I could be friends with people who were on a different side of the political spectrum.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 14:34
Are you misreading or purposefully trying to twist people's words to make yourself a victim?
People have been very open, kind and tolerant towards you and it seems you have taken it all for granted.
If you can't see that, take a breather or just walk away.
posted by ethylene 08 October | 14:38
Palin is great. I can't wait until she hits the talk show circuit and writes her book.

I mean, she might as well get started now.

She probably will be Sen. Palin (R-AK) someday.
posted by dhartung 08 October | 14:42
I guess I really am a fool for thinking I could be friends with people who were on a different side of the political spectrum.


Politics in the 21st century is primarily the art of dividing the electorate through hatred. Politics has always been a risky subject for polite conversation, but these days it's total poison. Friendships between opposing partisans need to be either very strong, or avoid the subject altogether.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 08 October | 14:44
I'm sure there are plenty of Democrats who'd never dream of voting Republican either

More Every Day!

Once Firmly In GOP Column, NC Now A Battleground

North Carolina hasn't voted for a Democratic presidential candidate since Jimmy Carter and was on nobody's list of battleground states a year ago. But now, public polls and an avalanche of Democratic voter registrations indicate North Carolina is no longer a safe Republican state. And McCain's efforts to win its 15 electoral votes don't match Obama's full-court press.

"I am surprised — and I think you've got to give it to Obama," said longtime North Carolina GOP operative Ballard Everett. "He ramped up in North Carolina early, he's moved out there and kept those troops working hard."

Since Jan. 1, new voter registrations in North Carolina have favored Democrats nearly 4-to-1.
posted by Fuzzy Monster 08 October | 14:48
Palin on why it's important to keep hammering the Obama/Ayers "connection":

“I think it just makes us ask the question that, if there's not forthrightness there, with that association and what was known and when it was known, does that lead us to ask, is there forthrightness with the plans Barack Obama has on say tax cuts, or spending increases?” Palin added. “It makes you wonder about the forthrightness, the truthfulness of the plans that he is telling America in regards to the economic recovery because that is first and foremost on American's minds.”


OMG PLEASE STOP USING WORDS!!!!
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 14:55
I like you, bunnyfire, but I'm just not willing to pretend that Sarah Palin is a person to be taken seriously as candidate for vice president of the United States of America - especially when the candidate for president on her ticket could keel over any minute. I'm tired of pretending she's anything but attractive and ambitious and butt dumb. If you think she's qualified to be president, yes, I do think you are dangerously stupid.
posted by taz 08 October | 14:58
I guess I really am a fool for thinking I could be friends with people who were on a different side of the political spectrum.

It's not just a partisan issue, bunnyfire.

There's plenty of people on your side of the political spectrum who can see through Palin's bullshit.

Like, say, Peggy Noonan and Mike Murphy.

Or Kathleen Parker.
posted by Fuzzy Monster 08 October | 15:01
Can the mods please change this post to "Palin Haters - If You Disagree Don't Bother Posting A Comment" thread?

And I don't care how the unpleasantness started and by whom. Is it so hard for us to let people who like McCain/Palin to have AT LEAST ONE thread where they can share with each other?!

Don't make me pull this car over because you know I will!

posted by MonkeyButter 08 October | 15:05
Oh, I dunno--I think 'Exhausted!' is a pretty good title.
posted by box 08 October | 15:08
I don't think it's appropriate for anyone, much less a moderator on this site, refer to anyone as an "idiot" or "dangerously stupid".
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 08 October | 15:11
I can't believe I'm popcorn eating on metachat. Wow.
posted by rainbaby 08 October | 15:17
Taz is allowed to voice her opinions and entitled to them, just like the rest of us.
posted by ethylene 08 October | 15:19
It's not an opinion, it's an insult, and it's not how we play ball over here. Being a moderator doesn't let you off that hook.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 08 October | 15:20
I know quite a few very smart, very well read and educated people who support McCain/Palin. A few of them are among the smartest people I know. I don't even try to understand it and just agree to disagree because there's such a wide gulf of understanding but I'd never call them idiots.
posted by octothorpe 08 October | 15:36
I'm exhausted from being an American abroad. I'm heartsick and gutsick of apologizing and being embarrassed for my country.

Yes, I probably should not have commented here.
posted by taz 08 October | 15:52
I know quite a few very smart, very well read and educated people who support McCain/Palin. A few of them are among the smartest people I know. I don't even try to understand it and just agree to disagree because there's such a wide gulf of understanding but I'd never call them idiots.

I similarly know quite a few people who I otherwise greatly admire who enjoy/do/believe in things that I find otherwise unforgivably idiotic. Finding a way to not mentally equate idiotic tendencies to overall character is a constant battle for me, but a rewarding one, I think. Forgiving people for their inadequacies makes me better than them.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson 08 October | 16:03
I know quite a few very smart, very well read and educated people who support McCain/Palin.

That's not the question. The question is how many very smart, very well read and educated people support Palin. I posit: very few. Governor Palin's selection was the same kind of pandering to the lowest common denominator that put George W. Bush in the White House. It's an embarrassment. Republicans deserved a better candidate. America deserved a better candidate.
posted by eamondaly 08 October | 16:19
My opinion, and that is all that it is, is that taz has been more than generous with letting the site become a place where US politics have been discussed with increasing frequency, when she has always been clear, from the very start, that at best she finds it personally distasteful and greatly dislikes the very idea of the site degenerating into a place people come to indulge in that topic with pervasive regularity.

And yet, the only effort to address it publicly was in a lone thread.

Despite my own efforts to avoid the bulk of the election onslaught, i, too, have been informed and interested in the odd bit of information offered here on the subject, if not for the reasons they were offered, but it has been for anyone not actively interested, politely put, a chore.

It is part of our lives and so we discuss it, allowed by the good graces of those who make that possible. To say they have to be mute facilitators is… wrong.
To say we have to censor ourselves in the name of "tolerance" is not right.
i know i have censored myself increasingly since the beginning and i know others have kept quiet about things and voicing dissent as well, for good or ill.

None of the rest of what i want to say necessarily applies to this thread, but i'm glad i got to say what i mean how i meant it, despite however anyone chooses to interpret it, and again, i thank matteo for pulling the thumb out of the dike.
posted by ethylene 08 October | 16:33
LT, without the grace of God (the actual Deity, not the fellow bunny) we are screwed no matter who we elect.


bunnyfire, if you're still here, this is the one that gets me. I can be friends with people across the political aisle, but not across the church aisle, at least not on the far far away from me side that you sit - the divide is too wide. Friendly, yes. Friends, no. I have close friends of different politial and spiritual stripes, but this quote, on a personal level, makes me feel shunned by you. And that's fine, in one sense, but not in the sense that you are asking for or assuming friendship. Some things are quite hard wired, like religion and to a lesser degree, politics. Are you here to make friends, or here to save souls? If it's the latter, that pisses me off, frankly.

I would like to say, though, I like monkey butter's idea - change the title of the post (it's too late for that here, now, but in the future) to be something like - "Here we gush about XYZ. No haters, please." I think that woulda gone down better, and I don't see anything wrong with a post like that. There have been, oh, TV show posts titled as such, I think - America's Next Top Model, Project Runway - so that if you don't care, you don't go in. And if you DO go in and trash, you get called for it, because, hey, it said what the purpose was up front.

This election is something that most of us care about, and you should have anticipated debate, not unqualified support, bunnyfire.

Peace.
posted by rainbaby 08 October | 18:47
On metachat we've always had to "censor ourselves" from calling other bunnies "idiots," or "dangerously stupid."

And yes, moderators need to have a higher bar for their behavior than the rest of us do. That's the only way these things work well.
posted by small_ruminant 08 October | 18:49
Objecting to how it was expressed is different than saying someone has no right to an opinion.
What "we do" is also often excuse people's weak moments and forgive rare breaches of etiquette.
It's the first time she's said anything of any of this and it was a short, blunt blurt of a generalization. She isn't the one who conflagrated it and suggest this everything everyone said was about her as a person instead of a discussion of ideas and topics.

Now ANTM is on, so i gotta go.
Priorities.
posted by ethylene 08 October | 19:01
whose opponent is getting a lot of her campaign funding from some dude in New!York! City!)

Without going into a palin rant which will make my ears bleed, I need to say... why the hell is this even legal? Seriously. If foreign citizens can't donate to presidential candidates they should make it so you have to be in district to donate for local ones. Just a general "you have to be legally allowed to vote for X if you want to give them cash" thing.

We've had some attempts at manipulating the city elections by people with cash in the 'burbs here.
posted by kellydamnit 08 October | 19:16
I'm sorry to see the thread go this way. To me, it looked like bf filed what might have been an interesting trip report but was immediately taunted over Palin. Now, I dislike the conservative right as much or more than anyone, but I'm not sure this was the thread for it. I think bf maintained a civil tone a lot longer than some others here.
posted by DarkForest 08 October | 19:37
I think bunnyfire is owed an apology for being called names.

Her opinions about Palin, abortion, homosexuality and religion are not mine. At all.

But I don't think she or anybody should be called names or publicly denigrated here.

If disagreeing with others or not being liked means that I or anyone else here might also be called an idiot or dangerously stupid, I don't feel safe to share here.

And I've lost a lot of respect for those who were mean to her in this thread. This was her thread, pro-Palin, about Palin. She didn't come to your Obama thread and call you an idiot or dangerously stupid.

It does not feel good or right to me to dump on bunnyfire in this ugly, mean, ganging up way. And I don't want to come here any more because of it.

posted by nickyskye 08 October | 19:44
All taz said was:

The woman is an idiot. Anyone voting her in for potential next-president is also an idiot.

Another thing "we do" is try to take things in a charitable way, and idiot generally is defined as (and as i take it to mean) an ignorant person. Ignorance is defined as "The condition of being uninformed or uneducated. Lacking knowledge or information."
i think that's perfectly valid and quite apt.

Maybe some of you don't ever speak to people who don't live in the US, but some of us get asked to explain the elements of the surprising amount of coverage this election receives.

If there was an intention for this thread to be about being emotionally supportive of beliefs many members are opposed to, that was ignorant. And still, people were supportive of the efforts of a person, clearly not the views held.

If the person who made the forum available is not able to even voice their own opinion as just another user, what reason does anyone have to try and use this site to promote their own opinions?
The lack of participation of "the moderators", if not their absence has been a detriment to the site, and in favor of "tolerance" of the right to speak on topics many find offensive--
posted by ethylene 08 October | 20:24
I think bunnyfire is owed an apology for being called names.

I do not. taz had a cranky moment... we'll all survive, and most of us have done worse. (Fuck knows I have.) I don't want anybody to leave this site, regardless of how much I may disagree with their views, but I also don't see why we need to coddle those who continually want to stomp the anthill or poke the hornet's nest.

Look, I LOVE open debate... if a thread is about some TV show, we can all dish and still be friends. If a thread is about music, we often talk serious trash about opposing tastes and yet, nobody sustains more than a flesh wound. If a thread is about politics- and yes, this is not an ideal subject for MetaChat, but the fact is a lot of folks here are invested in the subject and a lot of us are opinionated about it- we should all be able to take what we dish out, realize that people are going to say heated things, and love the fact that we can HAVE these arguments.

Don't jump into a TV thread if you hate TV; you'll just look like an asshole. Similarly, don't keep posting political posts if you don't want to hear what people really think on the subject.

And bear in mind, this too will pass. If you want to tune out for awhile, you can check the calendar and decide when you want to come back. Nobody's going to give you grief for that, and we'll be glad to see you when you return.
posted by BoringPostcards 08 October | 20:42
That's just a way to say she is female, cute, and pleasant. Which is sexist.

Not by a long shot. What's sexist is to vote for someone because she is female, cute, and pleasant, rather than because she is experienced, capable, and intelligent.
posted by Miko 08 October | 20:44
I'm with BoPo here. Taz didn't initially criticize bunnyfire specifically. She opined on an action. And then when bunnyfire said "Are you calling me an idiot?", taz basically restated her point and said, to paraphrase, "if the shoe fits." It maybe wasn't very graceful, but it also wasn't, from where I sit, something that was meant as a pointed, personal insult.

I also think this is knee-jerky not because of the topic, but because of the aggrieved party, and the aggrieved party's past words. There's always a lot of pussyfooting around said party (who, it must be mentioned, does have a history of maligning whole *groups* of people). I don't think it's fair that we have special rules for special people. If something *anyone* says deserves a critical look, I think we should be entitled to such critique. Lord knows I've been subjected to it myself. Someone upthread, as ethylene put it, "pulled the thumb out of the dike." I feel okay about that.

I don't like it when anyone here feels personally insulted. But, again, to me it doesn't look like personal insult was the intent. Especially knowing (and loving) taz.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 20:58
Mudpuppie, if you have an issue with me, I think we should settle it by email. Not here.

Other than that, at the very least, I'm taking a break from this site. I have a lot to think about.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 21:34
The issue is not with mudpuppie, bunnyfire. Don't play the martyr card. If you want to take a break, that's your decision, but pupps was not attacking you personally and neither was anyone else (well, matteo got a little close).

You posted this thread to get a reaction, and now you want to run away from said reaction. I know you did this for eons over on MeFi, but the dynamic is different here. For as long as you've hung out here, you should know that. There aren't thousands of folks commenting per second here; it's just the bunnies, and if you want to be provocative, fine. If you want to get-along-to-go-along, fine too. But accept that your actions (and this is true for every single person on this site) are going to have reactions. You get to face them just like we all do. You don't get to be a martyr here.
posted by BoringPostcards 08 October | 21:49
Seriously? 73 comments, and mine is the one you call out?

I'm sure whatever issues we have with each other are entirely predictable and boring. I have no interest in discussing them via email.

The point I was trying to make is that this ISN'T personal. The comment I made wasn't personal. The comment taz made, I believe wasn't personal. All of the other comments directed at you in this thread, I believe weren't personal. It's more about policy. It's about this community, and your role in it.

Here -- I'll say it. You post your religious views as truth. Not as "I believes," but as Truths. By your reckoning, many of us here are damned to hell. But calling you on those things -- well, any one of us risks igniting a powder keg by doing so. So for the most part, people don't do it. And that makes for a more peaceful site, but it isn't exactly fair.

So way up there, 50 comments back, people started posting difficult questions. I don't think it's unfair to expect you to answer them. I mean, actually answer them. With thought-out responses, instead of talking points. I don't think that's unfair at all. And it isn't personal. It's what I'd expect of anyone else. But oh, no, it's her. Her beliefs are different from ours. Ooh, can't stir the pot. Must Shut Mouth.

I don't like that. I don't think it's fair to anyone here. I especially think it's unfair to those of us who are implicitly, repeatedly damned by you. Your 'tolerance', exhibited by sharing the same webspace with us, really just isn't worth much.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 21:58
You know, and another thing.

If I were a huge Billy Ray Cyrus fan, and I thought Billy Ray Cyrus was the second coming of [insert your favorite messiah here], and I went to a Billy Ray Cyrus concert had an orgasmic time and wanted to share it with people, I'd probably consider sharing it with people on a Billy Ray Cyrus fan site first. Because, you know, I think people on Metachat probably aren't all that BRC-positive. And that's okay. We all have our own tastes.

But if I really wanted to share my orgasmic Billy Ray Cyrus experience with Metachat, I'd post it like this:

OMG, I just saw my beloved Billy Ray, and his mullet was PERFECT! I know he's not your favorite artist, but OMG, he was so cute and I had a great time! Don't laugh!

And reaction to that would be much more kind than reaction to

I just saw Billy Ray Cyrus and he's OMG AWESOME and he's my favoritest singer ever and if you don't like him you don't understand America, poo-poo head.

So, you know? Yeah. No martyr card.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 22:07
I posted this thread because TPS asked me to give a report. If you will notice, I didn't bring up politics at first, I simply described the event as an event.

Mudpuppie, my faith is my faith. I believe it to be true-otherwise I wouldn't be a believer. You don't get to dictate to me what my religious beliefs are simply because you don't share them. I have never said one thing to you about what you do or do not believe. That is your business. If what I AM offends you, then I am sorry, that is your issue and not mine. I am committed to treating you and others on this site as I would want to be treated, regardless of what you believe.





posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 22:33
OH, and while I am on a tear, I might as well say this:

This site has always been slice of life for all of us. JonMC and his bookstore and bar stories, essexjan, her pics, her stories of bad neighbors, and her vice of loving cilantro, Taz and her life in Greece, so on and so forth.

My trip last night was a slice of MY life. I think I get to do that.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 22:37
The bunny doth protest too much.

You can claim all you want that you only posted it because TPS asked for an update, but it doesn't take a Ph.D. in psychology to know you posted this because you wanted a reaction. Well, you got it. You poked the hornet's nest and you got stung. Cause, meet effect -- you two might have a little something to chat about. Now either cowgirl up and deal with it, or quit pulling this crap if you don't like the outcome. The well-worn victim card you just threw on the table has gotten old.

You have been itching for a good go-around ever since you left Mefi (as amply demonstrated by your stunt post over here a few days ago -- which was rightly deleted). You love being the center of attention, you love stirring the pot, and you love playing the victim -- you've demonstrated this for years. Don't kid a kidder, kiddo.
posted by scody 08 October | 22:50
Scody, what are you smoking????

Love her or hate her, Palin is a bona fide celebrity. Why can't I post about my life just like everyone else around here? Have you noticed that others here who do not share Palin's politics did seem to enjoy the slice of life description-just as they would if one of you went to an Obama rally and posted about it?

If I wanted go-rounds I wouldn't have deleted my account Over There. I thought I was among friends here. This is not how friends treat friends.

I hate this election. I hate how people are at each others throats with this both on and offline. I hate how no matter who wins half this country will still be totally pissed off at the other half. I hate how this is turning into total class and race war, fanned into flame by those with media outlets and their own agendas.

And I hate that this place that I thought was a stress reliever and a place where I could hang out with pals has made me cry.

posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 23:05
My trip last night was a slice of MY life. I think I get to do that.

Know what? I agree. You're right. You're absolutely right.

You also know -- you totally know -- that this is a heavily charged topic. You know that people on both sides of the debate feel very strongly about it. You can NOT tell me that someone who wandered into TownHall.com and posted a slice-of-life report on how beautiful Michelle Obama looked on Jon Stewart wouldn't be greeted with some probing questions. You know better. You know people here have strong reactions to Sarah Palin. You did not expect this to be an innocent slice of life post. Or if you did, you have a tin ear.

I have never said one thing to you about what you do or do not believe.

Here you just made it personal, so please don't accuse me of making it personal by addressing this.

Again, you're right. I give you absolute props for that. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. We all own our own beliefs. And we will all have to balance our belief checkbooks on our deathbeds. You're totally right.

You're right. You haven't said anything TO me, ever, about my life. And I appreciate that. But that doesn't mean that you've never said anything about my life. Even if you weren't talking about me, you were talking about me.

Admittedly, that was OVER THERE, not HERE. (Which I wouldn't bring up HERE, except that *you* brought it up here in that thread that was deleted recently.) It doesn't mean that it's not OUT THERE.

here's the deal:

When you drop your truth bombs, even if you're not addressing a specific person, you're adding to the hate and intolerance out there. The envelope doesn't need to have an address. It only needs a stamp.

Where I grew up, people like me were regularly beaten up, sometimes killed, for being open about who and what they were. Don't accuse me of being dramatic here -- it's true.

And here I am, in my mid-thirties. I've had lots of life experience. And you know what? I refuse to publicly hold the hand of my life partner because, where I come from, that could get me beaten up.

I'm not saying you'd hunt me down on the street, but you add to that. And that's my reality.

So don't say to me that you're golden because you've never said anything "to" me. "To" doesn't matter. You keep telling yourself that, you're delusional. It's "about" that should concern you. That's what you need to focus on. That's where you continually have the conversation that you continually refuse to have.

I am committed to treating you and others on this site as I would want to be treated, regardless of what you believe.

When you take time off to think, I hope this is one of the things you think about.

I don't begrudge you your beliefs, at all, inasmuch as they stay out of my life.

I also don't begrudge you slice-of-life posts.

You need some help with the big picture, though.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 23:14
I hate myself for having posted up thread. I really do.

"And I hate that this place that I thought was a stress reliever and a place where I could hang out with pals has made me cry."

YES! My feelings exactly.
posted by arse_hat 08 October | 23:23
I'm sorry if I made it worse.

It's just, you know? There are a lot of raw nerves here. They're not specifically blue or red, and none of them has a username.

It's just --

Gaaaaaaaah.

We're all entitled.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 23:30
"You can NOT tell me that someone who wandered into TownHall.com and posted a slice-of-life report on how beautiful Michelle Obama looked on Jon Stewart wouldn't be greeted with some probing questions. You know better"

Uh, I expect BETTER of this place. I don't post on TownHall. I know there are raving shrieky harpy Republicans out there.

"Where I grew up, people like me were regularly beaten up, sometimes killed, for being open about who and what they were. Don't accuse me of being dramatic here -- it's true."

I know you aren't being overdramatic. And that kind of crap ain't right. It's evil.

And look, one reason I am here and not on some place like Town Hall or some "christian" site is I like to be around people who are not like me. I want to be reminded that mine is not the only viewpoint out there. I want to understand how things look to people not in my mental zip code, so to speak.

Some days, it's hard.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 23:33
Mudpuppie, we're cool. Just wanted to make sure you know that.
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 23:34
Speaking as someone who was raised Catholic and has an atheist friend who really wants me to watch Religulous, who has two really good friends who are staunch Republicans, and whose boss and sales manager--both people I respect and admire--are also Republicans, I was actually very genuinely interested in learning more about bunnyfire's trip to see Palin because I wanted to know if Palin started repeating the Ayers thing again, and did the crowd react in the same way.

I also deleted an email I was going to send, asking why she's a Republican and if she thinks the system needs changing so much, why does the rest of your party seem to be so freaking resistant to change and going back to what true Republicanism is, along with other very pointed questions. I want to ask bunnyfire these questions because I sure as hell can't ask my boss and sales manager, and I don't want to get into political fights with my RL friends, and I don't know any other Republicans I can ask.

See, I wish there was a way for people who were on opposing sides of an issue to be able to email or chat over the Internet with each other and get those questions specifically answered. Like how one of my friend's friends used to periodically host "Ask a Muslim!" days and answer any and all reasonable questions about being Muslim.

I had sincerely hoped this thread could be that.
posted by TrishaLynn 08 October | 23:42
And look, one reason I am here and not on some place like Town Hall or some "christian" site is I like to be around people who are not like me.

I respect that. Quite a bit.

I think, though, that you have to learn to accept what comes with it. Sometimes, questions come with it. Ignoring those questions and changing the subject doesn't help the cause of mutual understanding. It just makes you look evasive and disdainful of the differing opinions that you came here to absorb.

And yes, we're fine, you and I. We have differences. We always will, I imagine. We all do. That's what makes us interesting and useful to one another. One of the benefits of this place is that we should be able to learn from each other. All of us.

I hope you can learn from me sometime. I've learned from you. But I don't feel that you ever will.

And you're right, some days, it's hard.
posted by mudpuppie 08 October | 23:47
TrishaLynn, you can email me and ask me anything. I might not have all the answers but I can try.

mudpuppie, thanks for posting what you did. It means a lot.

For the record, when it might seem I am being evasive, sometimes it just means I am overwhelmed. I haven't perfectly thought out my own political beliefs, and sometimes I don't even agree with myself. I'm definitely a work in progress...

Arse_hat, we're cool too. Just thought I would throw that in...
posted by bunnyfire 08 October | 23:54
Thanks bunnyfire. Same thing here.
posted by arse_hat 09 October | 00:00
For the record, when it might seem I am being evasive, sometimes it just means I am overwhelmed. I haven't perfectly thought out my own political beliefs, and sometimes I don't even agree with myself. I'm definitely a work in progress...

But see, that's fine. It's admirable. It's human. Maybe, when -- bam -- that's where we find ourselves, you could respond as such? Like, "This is where I am now, but I'm still thinking about it." Or, "it's complicated for me, but I feel X and Y and Z. I hear what you're saying, but I need some more time to come to a conclusion."

A comment like that, which would show that you're thinking about the issue and not dismissing everyone else outright, can keep a discussion a discussion. The evasion that you say you don't mean -- that's what turns it into something else. And that's how we end up here.

There's nothing wrong with gray tones. They almost always beat black and white.

Not nitpicking -- just trying to corral the discussion into something useful.
posted by mudpuppie 09 October | 00:11
I sincerely apologize to everyone. My fault, I wish I hadn't turned the computer on. I really, really wish I hadn't turned the computer on.

Unfortunately a combination of things happened on my end: A dinner out, with too many drinks, plus having to talk about this with people from here (Greece, not mecha) who want me to explain things I can't explain... This after I made myself a rule to stop following the Metafilter politics posts and stop refreshing Google news and the poll sites every three minutes because I was becoming an election zombie. I've been telling myself to just avoid, avoid, avoid for a few more weeks. I wish I listened to myself better.

I've always wanted metachat to be a place where people could post about whatever they are interested in and discuss those things without being attacked, so I'm ashamed that I broke that one simple principle myself.

I do think that topics like politics and religion are powder keg topics, but I never expected to be the one stomping around with a lighted match. I'm very sorry.
posted by taz 09 October | 00:25
I thought I was among friends here. This is not how friends treat friends.
Friends treat friends with complete honesty and acceptance that they won't always agree about things, but they can still be friends. Sometimes, friends make each other cry but that doesn't men they aren't still friends.

You are among friends and you know it - don't get your back up just because you don't like the way one of your friends feels about an issue that has a massive and long-reaching impact on the whole world. Accept that your friend feels as strongly about it as you do and don't take it to heart.

From the distance of half a globe away, I can tell you that people are not confident about the outcome of this election. I haven't spoken to anyone who wants McCain to win (even people who were rabid Howard/Bush supporters), because he is so obviously the exact opposite of what will fix the problems that the US has created. Unfortunately, most people I know are afraid that, when push comes to shove, America simply won't have the guts to elect a black man president and that they would rather elect a woman. People are scared for the future of the world because the US economy has such a profound effect on everyone in the developed world. If people on the other side of the globe are scared, I can hardly imagine the level of emotion in the US (and its citizens abroad).

Given that razor's edge level of FUD, we all need to think a bit more about being sympathetic to how stressed we each are about this. Understand that, when people snap at you, they are angry and scared and worried about the situation, not necessarily angry at you. The fact that I'm worried I could lose my house because a bunch of people on the other side of the world make a stupid decision makes me a bit touchy, but that doesn't give me the right to bite the head off someone who expresses an opinion I don't like.

bunnyfire, you know taz well enough to know that she means you no personal ill even if she violently disagrees with your political views. You know that and yet you choose to fly off the handle. Give the woman a break, for your God's sake. She'd do the same for you.
posted by dg 09 October | 00:45
Taz, baby, the day you can't say what ever you want here is the day the site dies.

Even if it wasn't the most elegant epistle, it was what you wanted to say.
You didn't let open the flood of feeling people had, or create them.

We've all had a bit of enough of it.
Early on eek posted a thread about Michael Palin and it was just more space for alt palin talk.

Well, now i have to wonder what got deleted.
Let's look at a hastily assembled statistical example:
Obama
Palin
Palinsearch is climbing quickly to half of Obamasearch in six weeks. Obama has been around a bit longer.
i have never read a single Obama thread. i already know i'm voting for him and i don't have any zealotry about it. It's simply a fact born of knowing facts that make this the better option. i've probably missed a lot of great stuff.
Palin, also mentioned in the head of the political frustration thread, has been a constant onslaught in the face of everyone not nose deep in a book.

It's disturbingly surprising that anyone could not be aware of overall political and Palin fatigue at this point.

Pleading ignorance at this point is
disconcerting.

Being blanketly unaware of one's surroundings, virtual and otherwise, is--

ill advised, to say the least.
That you haven't come to far more grievous circumstances despite being on the internet a considerable amount of time is not the work of "God."
It's the active action of kindness, restraint and tolerance on the part of human beings who have consciously chosen that course of action and made the effort.

The other day, jonmc was in a bar where someone oblivious intruded upon his demarcated personal space more than once.
i am not saying his was the definitive reaction, but he dealt with the person without punching them in the face. While this shows he was aware of his surroundings and the common sense rules that govern it, it also showed some measure of restrain on both their parts, so a simple interaction did not turn into a hostile, violent, embarrassing encounter.

The morale of this story is in the thread that may or may not be porn.

"I say Captain?
You say what?
I say Captain?
You say, what you want!"
posted by ethylene 09 October | 00:46
That would have worked better without that last comma.
Or would it?

Now i wonder if i really do have to write out the moral and explain my typos.
Rubes.
posted by ethylene 09 October | 00:54
Hmm, preview exists for a reason, I guess I should have looked at the extra comments that went up while I was ranting.
posted by dg 09 October | 00:57
"I say Captain?
You say what?
I say Captain?
You say, what you want!"
posted by arse_hat 09 October | 01:00
You weren't ranting, dg. i really appreciated your contribution.
It's valuable. We certainly haven't had any antipodal viewpoint yet, and just talking to people in England and hearing how much they know and in what detail is always a bit surprising, but then it is so different than it use to be.

Like most USians know who leads most other countries.
posted by ethylene 09 October | 01:15
Wow. That was all a bit unexpected.

My 2p.

If you're of the opinion that moderators should be held to a higher standard, then you're right, but they shouldn't be held to a higher standard by you. You should be holding yourself to a higher standard and you should be a little more tolerant of the mistakes of others. We all fuck up, and although I personally expect to be pulled up for my fuckups, I would like to think that I'm not pulled up by someone who thinks it's alright for them to act out because they're "just a member".

When you've got a bunch of people attacking one person and the odd constructive point thrown in there, then it's really hard to see those constructive points.

"I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you." looks very similar to "I hate you. I hate you. I disagree with you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you."

I personally thing it's a disgrace how we've all treated certain members over the last couple of weeks/months. It shames and upsets me & I really don't know what to do about it.

oh - and dg: to paraphrase
dg, you know bunnyfire well enough to know that she means you no personal ill even if she violently disagrees with your political views. You know that and yet you choose to fly off the handle. Give the woman a break, for your God's sake. She'd do the same for you.

posted by seanyboy 09 October | 03:02
Okay guys, it's morning, I had a good night's sleep, all is well.

Taz, don't worry about it. I think we all are really freaked out about things election wise...we're cool.
posted by bunnyfire 09 October | 07:12
WE all are really freaked out about things. This really is the very most serious election of our lifetimes. The enormity of the global economic crisis that we set off, the unstable Middle East, the threats to our own children's future that we're imposing with our debt, deficit, and the bailout...of course we're scared. This stuff is a lot bigger than identity politics, and all of the people who want to be in office need to be talking about those issues - not who's up and who's down. I think it's up to us to hold them accountable. If we could actually decide we're all in it together, which we are, we could at LEAST get our leaders to confine their discussion to the issues we're facing, which are the most grave any of us who didn't live during the 30s and 40s probably ever have faced. Even if we disagree about who brings the solution, we could at least have a far more useful discussion that didn't devolve into attacks on one another. But it's up to us to ask the politicians to focus on our national situation and what their leadership would do to improve it.
posted by Miko 09 October | 09:39
seanyboy - good call, but I was not intending to attack bunnyfire and put in a lot of effort to make my comment rant as neutral as possible (without success, obviously). I was more about trying to say "everyone take a step back and cool down" than blaming anyone, but I'm not the best communicator in the world so some of that might have got lost in the translation between mis-firing synapses and clumsy fingers.

That's a nice dream you have there, Miko [/incurable cynic].
posted by dg 09 October | 15:26
In Dozens of Calls, Palins and Aides Pressed for Trooper’s Removal.
A few lovely McCain-Palin supporters headed to a rally, calling Obama a terrorist, etc.
posted by Hellbient 09 October | 20:04
Hellbient, we are all at the whuffle thread. Wouldn't you rather join us there?
posted by bunnyfire 09 October | 20:20
Oh, sure. Lemme find it.
posted by Hellbient 09 October | 20:53
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