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02 October 2008

Where is the real time Biden-Palin debate thread?
post by: Meatbomb at: 19:49 | 342 comments
You're in it.
posted by box 02 October | 19:50
Oh good!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 19:52
C-Span, my favorite network for this kind of stuff (though I might watch CNN and their real-time polling doohickie), just had a great, minute-or-so-long shot of Gwen Ifill sitting in a chair.
posted by box 02 October | 19:55
Yay - I'm at work, can't watch it - was wanting to know what was happening...

Has it started? has it started?
posted by jonathanstrange 02 October | 19:56
I'm at the myspace debate page... ooh, I am so psyched for this, it's been a long night (4am here)
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 19:57
Fact-check liveblogging here.

Nope, doesn't start for a few minutes.
posted by box 02 October | 19:57
Yay, I've managed to stay awake! I had a nap and just woke up (it's 2am here).

*chants* "Crash and burn! Crash and burn! Crash and burn!"
posted by essexjan 02 October | 19:59
Woot! I've got Trillian on, TwitterFox is up, and I'm even in the old MUCK chatroom I used to frequent with the RPG gang from college, and now I'm here.

Who says I'm watching this alone?
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 19:59
Let's get ready to rumble.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:01
I just got visually Rickrolled on MSNBC. In the crowd behind one of their talking heads, two people were holding up banners. One of them read "Never gonna give you up." The other said "Never gonna let you down."

Rickrolling just evolved, and I saw it happen.
posted by mudpuppie 02 October | 20:01
Truly, pup, a history-making evening.
posted by box 02 October | 20:02
You know the moderator fell down some stairs and broke her foot a couple of days ago? Bummer.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:03
"Hey, can I call you Joe?"
posted by box 02 October | 20:03
"Can I call you Joe?" isn't that like real people, eh?

posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:03
There's unfortunately no way Sarah Palin can lose this. The bar is set far, far too low.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:04
Biden: Flag pin, check.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:04
Oh dear, here we goooo!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:05
Ooh - my boss has it on the radio... excellent.

If only I could actually hear it.
posted by jonathanstrange 02 October | 20:05
Stay on McCain, Joe. Pay no attention to the lady in black.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:05
Sarah wins flag pin contest. For fuck sake, she's got the folksy turned up to 11... "you betcha"
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:06
Palin: BIG honking rhinestone flag, check.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:06
SOCCER! I betcha!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:06
They dit'n wanna listen to him
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:06
How do barometers resound, Sarah?
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:07
Yay for keeping on the talking points, Joe.

And... Palin didn't acknowledge Biden in her opening statement. And she said "Betcha" and took out a soccer reference (DRINK!).

Gwen? Is very good at controlling both of them.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:07
I thought she didn't blink.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:07
His eyes are a little squinty. They got the moderator at a bad angle for him.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:08
Crap, my TV is in the other room as my computer

time to find a live stream!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:08
'Team of mavericks'? Wasn't that a Larry McMurtry miniseries?
posted by box 02 October | 20:08
Did she just wink at me? That's creepy.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:08
She's winking at the camera. Why? I don't want a team of mavericks, because they're the ones who moon Russian MIGs.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:09
I think she's letting the barracuda out.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:09
The fundamental of our economy?
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:09
New energy?

Her running mate is a dinosaur!
posted by jonathanstrange 02 October | 20:09
Silly moderator. Vice presidents go to lesser funerals and are window dressing.

(actually she's doing a good job so far.)
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:10
Fuck me, she is being so breathy and flirty... sucks
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:10
Dammit, my laptop is broken, and I'm running from room to room. I'm missing stuff here AND there!
posted by mudpuppie 02 October | 20:10
"hockey moms across the nation"

riiiight
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:11
The fact that she thinks there are $100K houses shows how out of touch she is with much of the country. $300K will get you a perfectly average size home here. That ain't McMansion money.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:11
Man, Palin drops more g's than Menace II Society.
posted by box 02 October | 20:11
"Darn right!" Stop the fucking folks-y talk! Joe Six Pack? Fuck you. Sorry. Fuck ya!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:11
Wow, I thought I'd never get "hockey mom" (which is on my bingo card) after she'd started off with soccer mom. I underestimated Palin, getting close to bingo...
posted by Quentin 02 October | 20:12
I feel sorry for Biden already.

Jrossi, I live in a 69 thousand dollar house. And it isn't in a slum. It depends where you live. And her audience ain't in California.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:12
That made me snorfle, box!
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:12
Man, Palin drops more g's than Menace II Society.

Holy shit, I'm fucking stealing that.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:13
It depends where you live.

I know. That's my point.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:13
This format sucks, Biden has to push her off her scripted talking points...
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:13
What's that pin above her flag pin?
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:13
palinbingo.com anyone?

My friend and I are playing with cards 1 & 4.
posted by sperose 02 October | 20:13
Looks like they polished up the speech algorithm.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:14
Stop the fucking folks-y talk! Joe Six Pack? Fuck you. Sorry. Fuck ya!

Actually, Biden just talked about a guy named Joey he met at a gas station. Out folksy that, Tundra Mama! Go Joe!(two can play that game)
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:14
tackis?

posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:14
She won't answer the questions, she's talking to the people... FUCK OFF... keep pushing, Biden
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:15
Hee. McCain voted for the same measure Obama did. *snerk*

And... she's talking to me now. YESSSS! She got shot down! I love you Gwen.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:15
Gosh darn it!
Golly!
Darn right!
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:15
I'm on card 1, guess we should have organised this up front.. Oh well, I think I've missed a few anyway, trying to keep track of mefi, polfi and mecha...
posted by Quentin 02 October | 20:15
I love how confident Biden is. I really feel like nothing is gonna freak him out.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:17
Biden has zombie eyes. Dang.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:17
What's more patriotic than saying 'government, you're the problem'?
posted by box 02 October | 20:18
Patriotic.....oh God, I wish I had something to drink.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:18
"Government, you're not the solution, you're the problem."

posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:18
Those families are gonna get out there and get health care... excellent!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:19
5,000 dollar tax credit? How is that neutral?
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:19
I take it back... Gwen doesn't seem to have any control over what they're saying at all. :(
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:19
Biden is going to pounce on that. Pounce, Biden!
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:19
Sarah thinks she's MIDDLE CLASS?
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:19
"Gwen, I don't know where to start."

Biden reminds me of Jon Lovitz playing Dukakis on SNL. "I can't believe I'm losing to this guy."
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:20
Ugh, heathcare....let's let the free market decide it all! Worked great on wall street, right?
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:20
She's going to get clobbered now!
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:20
Well, she WAS middle class.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:20
Ooh, 'ultimate bridge to nowhere' got some laughs from the audience.
posted by box 02 October | 20:21
"I call that the ultimate bridge to nowhere."
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:21
Okay, we'll give that one to Biden.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:21
"Ultimate bridge to nowhere"
BUUUUUUURN!!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:21
He doesn't look happy.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:22
YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING THE DAMN QUESTION!!!!
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:23
Stop talking so quickly, but ya know? He's just as folksy as she is, and that's awesome.

"The best thing about running with John McCain is that he's slow 'cause he's old!"
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:24
Palin sounds like my mom....
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:24
Break up a monopoly?
posted by box 02 October | 20:24
She's gone all Tyra! Me, me, me, because me.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:25
"How long have I been at this...5 weeks"

yes, five of the most surreal weeks ever.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:25
"I agree with the Governor."

Did he learn nothing from the last debate????
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:26
I won't take back any of my promises, because I haven't made any! Genius!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero 02 October | 20:26
It's so weird how she keeps talking and filling up the empty space but she's actually not talking in concrete terms at all. She just keeps saying "I'll do what's right, I'll represent the American people..." "Thousand points of light... stay the course..."
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:26
Biden wins the energy question by flipping it to agree with Palin, sweet!!!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:26
Do any of those Palin bingo cards have 'answers the stated question' on them?
posted by box 02 October | 20:26
He's just as folksy as she is, and that's awesome.

Damned straight. If that's what it takes, that's what it takes, and he's more sincere about it, which helps.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:27
(this does remind me of ANTM, actually.)
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:27
Call her on "putting the campaign aside", please??
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:27
I can hear her gritting her teeth from here.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:27
She's starting to become a bit unglued, her voice is getting slightly shaky.
posted by moonshine 02 October | 20:28
Loiseau, that's what the rightwing radio people have told her to do. That's what she did in Alaska.

It works.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:28
"I agree with the Governor."

Did he learn nothing from the last debate????

Perhaps he believes in being honest and giving credit where it's due rather than going on the attack indiscriminately.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:28
Quit telling me who caused it, start telling me how to fix it, dang it.....
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:28
Yes!!!! She's breaking up, she's breaking up :)
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:29
Yeah, she's starting to crack. This is awesome.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:29
Yes, loiseau, but immediately the McCain campaign made a commercial of it. He could have put it differently.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:29
I must admit--if you want a candidate who does what the right-wing radio people tell them to do, Palin's the one.
posted by box 02 October | 20:30
Let's have some of that blah blah non-sequitor stuff Sarah!!! gogogogogo
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:30
She sounds like a fucking 2nd grade teacher.....AUUGHHHG we're adults!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:30
Biden's looking like one of coldchef's clients. He needs to fire his makeup artist.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:30
"I agree with the Governor."

Did he learn nothing from the last debate????

She did (collected money from the oil revenue and gave it to the people) the exact opposite of what John McCain would have done in the same situation. Biden was trying to say: "Maybe you can convince McCain to do what you did."

Also, Palin doesn't know jack about bankruptcy. She changed the subject quick like.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:30
Yes, loiseau, but immediately the McCain campaign made a commercial of it.

A crappy commercial that he got called to the carpet for. He didn't come out ahead on that.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:31
Biden's looking like one of coldchef's clients.

Homeboy's pale. Whatcha gonna do?
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:32
Americans care the most about climate change... well good for youse guys.
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:32
Biden's looking like one of coldchef's clients. He needs to fire his makeup artist.

As opposed to McCain, who gives off a glow.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:32
"affect the impacts" (??)
"we've got to save this planet"
"tapping into alternative sources of energy"

she's got the platitudes and clichés memorized, she's showing that.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:33
He's getting a little thin on top, though.
posted by box 02 October | 20:33
Holy shit. She talks in complete circles.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:33
Oh, Joe... I think I just fell in love with you a little.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:33
Neither one of these people are scientists. Scientists disagree on cause of climate change. I don't care what either candidate says about it. Next topic?
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:33
Biden tries common sense....

It's super effective!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:33
"affect the impacts" (??)

She totally bit that rhyme from Jay-Z.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:34
Oh hells, she corrected Biden on the drilling chant.

posted by gaspode 02 October | 20:34
That's the thing, jonmc-Biden looks worse than McCain, to me.
And that's saying something.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:35
"clean green natural gas"... does she believe in science?!
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:35
Odd of her to mention rape.
posted by box 02 October | 20:35
Who is Senator O'Biden?
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:36
Clean coal....kind of an oxymoron
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:36
SOME REAL TALK ABOUT RIGHTS FOR GAY COUPLES!!!! FUCKING FINALLY!!!!!
IT'S OFFICIAL I LOVE BIDEN!!!!!!!! EVEN IF THIS LOSES THE ELECTION FOR THEM!!!!
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:37
Mention the gay friend, mention the gay friend...
posted by box 02 October | 20:37
Yeah, stick to the Constitution when it comes to the same sex angle. Good for you, Joe.

Whoa, she said the word "choose." I hope that Biden gets her on that, too.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:38
OH! She's TOLERANT. We know because she told us!
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:38
"I am tolerant"

LOLZ
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:38
She's tolerant. Oh, good. SARAH PALIN GO FUCK YOURSELF.
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:38
Really? Fuck you, Palin. All my love, Joe.
posted by zerokey 02 October | 20:39
Well, they've certainly drawn THAT line in the sand clearly.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:39
I hate when people say they are "tolerant" of homosexuals. Fuck you and fuck your tolerance.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:40
Did she just get boo-ed? I wish I could hear!!
posted by jonathanstrange 02 October | 20:40
EYE RAK
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:40
Pips just yelled at the TV Palin: "You want the government out of everything but the bedroom." Damn straight, honey.

Also, well put retort from Biden.

Fuck you and fuck your tolerance.

Tolerancexual.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:41
Bold-faced lie about the troop count.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:41
"With all due respect, I didn't hear a plan."
posted by box 02 October | 20:41
Is it Eye-Raq or Irr-aq?
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:41
Hey, they agree! (raise your hand if you really believe THAT.)
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:42
Is it Eye-Raq or Irr-aq?

Eye-Rate.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:43
Surrender! Stay the course, dignity and honor at any cost!!! USA! USA!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:43
Whoa. Major crack in her façade there for a moment on the Iraq rebuttal. Couldn't get her wheels turning fast enough.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:43
This is not boyzone in any way but I wanna wipe that fuckin' smirk off her face. We know she's full of shit but does she know how full of shit she is? Jesus christ, this whole month leading up to the election will be like living with a drunk relative.

Update: I think she just shit under the podium.
posted by KevinSKomsvold 02 October | 20:43
Did she just say 'Talibani?' Sounds like a salad dressing.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:44
No reaction from y'all about Biden saying he was against gay marriage?

Heh-poor Biden-not much he can do about those past quotes.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:44
Barack said that the surge worked.....I think

hearing her speak is painful, somebody get me a drink
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:44
Yup, She found the list of non-arguments fast though.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 20:44
I love how Biden keeps responding to Palin's comments about Obama's votes by pointing out that McCain voted the same way.
posted by box 02 October | 20:45
Great, I was clearing the dinner dishes and MISSED the gay discussion. Was it a question, or a remark?
posted by BoringPostcards 02 October | 20:45
I love it when Biden laughs. It's so different from that I'm-getting-hot-under-the-collar laugh McCain was using last week. It's more... jocular and unfazed.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:45
No reaction from y'all about Biden saying he was against gay marriage?

It made me feel sick. It's so totally charming that they can both agree on hatred and bigotry.
posted by occhiblu 02 October | 20:45
or maybe a vegan food. 'Our veggie burgers are made with tofu and talibani!'
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:45
It was a direct question. Biden is for civil rights for same sex partnerships, and against gay marriage. Palin the same.

But you need to youtube how it went down. It's worth it.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:46
Bunnyfire - Biden said that he was against redefining marriage.
posted by typewriter 02 October | 20:47
The D positions on gay marriage: they seem to be defining marriage as a religious event while non religious unions - as they have always been - are civil by definition and under the D there will be no civil differences.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 20:47
No reaction from y'all about Biden saying he was against gay marriage?

This is why Team Obama wasn't my first choice. I have an Obama sign in my yard now, though, because he's the best choice available.
posted by BoringPostcards 02 October | 20:47
It made me feel sick. It's so totally charming that they can both agree on hatred and bigotry.

He was (IMO) playing it slick to avoid giving them a soundbite to exploit. Not great, but politics as usual.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:47
(I gotta admit I like Biden, a little bit. He seems like a genuinely nice fella. )
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:48
The Castro brothers are okay, but I prefer the Marx brothers.
posted by box 02 October | 20:48
Nuk-cu-lar

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGGG!!!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:48
Darn this is frustrating, I didn't get in until 9:15 so I'm watching this fifteen minutes behind you all.
posted by octothorpe 02 October | 20:48
Notice her eyes are slightly looking up. She is 'looking' at her memory, not the camera.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 20:48
No reaction from y'all about Biden saying he was against gay marriage?

If that's what they truly believe, then they're dead wrong. But no one's going to get elected in America by being right on that. Not yet.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:48
She's proud of knowing the Iranian leader's name!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:48
(as an aside-monkeybutter, I could live with that.)
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:49
'Twas a question, BoringPostcards.

Bunnyfire, I completely disagree with Biden and I think it's gross that the US doesn't (but for a couple of jurisdictions) allow gay marriage, but I am thrilled to hear someone straight-up say he believes that gay relationships are every bit as legitimate in his mind as straight relationships. None of this passive-aggressive "lifestyle choice" hateful bullshit.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:49
Me on Biden on gay marriage: I think he said what he needed to say and he's right that Constitutionally, het unions need to be recognized the same as homo unions. He also did the right thing in saying that civilly, individual people and their relationships to their faiths should define what marriage means to them, not the state.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:49
NU-Ka-Ler. Bllleeeeeech!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 20:49
The Castro brothers are okay, but I prefer the Marx brothers.

Marxist!
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:49
THEIR RESPECT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS????????
posted by mudpuppie 02 October | 20:49
Yeah, everyone hates the US because you're just too free and happy. *eyes roll out of head* You just keep saying that and maybe it'll become true.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 20:50
OK, my blood pressure can't handle this anymore.
posted by occhiblu 02 October | 20:50
Jimmy Carter couldn't pronounce nuclear to save his life, either. And he had a former career with it.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:51
THEIR RESPECT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS????????

I think I sprained my two middle fingers on that one.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 20:51
Okay, Biden found some fire in his belly. I'm impressed.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:51
Damn, Biden just NAILED that response on Iran.
posted by BoringPostcards 02 October | 20:52
Israel the peace seeking nation. ROFL
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:52
My Irish immigrant roommate (who is sitting next to me) pronounces "nuclear" better than she does, and she's still retained her accent.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:53
Jimmy Carter couldn't pronounce nuclear to save his life, either. And he had a former career with it.


Huh...the more you know.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:53
Really, Governor? You won't allow a second Holocaust? Good God, you've got my vote!
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:53
(as an aside-monkeybutter, I could live with that.)

It would break my fat old heart if you disapproved. No offense personally, bunnyfire, you know that, but one group of people's dislike for something shouldn't decide things for the whole country. Evangelical Christians have a right to their opinions like everybody else, but they are only one part of this country and the rest of us are not, I repeat NOT, a bunch of rampaging communist sex perverts out to destroy them. Most of this country has been moving toward more acceptance of gay people, and the far right not liking that can't prevent it. We're willing to live and let live too.

Sorry, but I had to make my point, and like I said that wasn't directed at you personally.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 20:54
Really, Governor? You won't allow a second Holocaust?

She'll wink and beam and make the Nazis swoon. Then, when they think they might be getting some, she'll rush the Jews out of there, you betcha!
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 20:55
THEIR RESPECT FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS????????

Who is the 'their' in this phrase? I ain't watching this thing live.
posted by mullacc 02 October | 20:55
Please, palin, speak to us as ADULTS. Use 5 dollar words!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 20:56
What I'm looking for and seeing more and more with Paling in the tough areas, from KOS:

. . . evade tough questions for which they're not intellectually prepared. That is, that when stuck, they'll often:

1) repeat back some of the words in the question to establish that they're "answering" it;

2) parry by steering the frame of their answers toward a talking point that bears some relation to the subect of the question;

3) spray some transitional buzzwords that help them segue from what they were asked to what they have prepared to say, and;

4) deliver the focus group-tested answer they originally planned, even if it's kind of a non-sequitur.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 20:56
mullacc: America's.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:57
She'll wink and beam and make the Nazis swoon. Then, when they think they might be getting some, she'll rush the Jews out of there, you betcha!


I wish I could favorite that.
posted by KevinSKomsvold 02 October | 20:57
She's talking about changes in Afghanistan? Biden is going to pounce now.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 20:58
Gwen, just exactly what is that question supposed to be? -1 for you.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 20:58
She's either on pain meds for her foot or distracted by a world of hurt, again, from that foot.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:59
Well, maybe she should take that foot out of her ass. ;)

/apologizes profusely while dicking really low.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:00
Joe needs to stop saying, "Let me say again." We heard ya, dude. We're not stoopid.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:01
LOL, that's the second time I've heard a sigh from biden.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:01
Go find that general and ask him what he said, dangit!
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:01
HAHAH dicking!!1! Obviously I meant "ducking." Yea.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:01
Wake up, Biden, FFS this is not time to sleep. Show a bit of vim.
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:02
Monkeybutter, I was referring to the moderator. Were you?
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:02
Dick low
Sweet MonkeyButter...
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 21:02
Joe, stop sounding defeated. I know, it's hard to argue with an idiot. But your exasperation is making you look old and tired.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:03
Y'know, the difference between these two is that Palin's crammed a bunch of semi-relevant talking points and clichés, and Biden actually, y'know, knows things.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:03
How did we get to Darfur?
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:03
Bunny, I thought you meant the Governor. It was a cheep shot that I hope was not take too seriously. I meant it to be bad/funny.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:04
'I was for it before I was against it.' Bridge to Nowhere, Bridge to Nowhere, Bridge to Nowhere!
posted by box 02 October | 21:04
exactly coldchef
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:04
OOOOoooh. Joe's using a Uniball bold. It's got this beautiful blue/black ink that they refuse to use in any of their other pens. That's a great pen.

Now, just stop pointing with it.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:05
Biden's definitely showing some frustration. It must be exhausting to keep addressing and correcting falsehoods and listen to someone dodge the questions they're being directly asked.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:05
@Bunnyfire: I should say I believe Palin is doing well for what I think she is trying to accomplish. I would like more substance from her but I respect her appearance tonight.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:06
No harm no foul, monkeybutter. It just seemed nonsequiteurish, is all.

(Biden, we were greeted as liberators at the very beginning. At least on MY tv.)
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:06
Sarah just scored points with her "outsider" crap. It's bullshit, but it's sparkly bullshit.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:06
Bridge to Nowhere, Bridge to Nowhere, Bridge to Nowhere!

Maybe David Byrne could do an ad for Obama using that.

That's a great pen.

Now, just stop pointing with it.

he's been hanging out with Bob Dole. which means that if he loses the election he'll get erectile dysfunction and do pepsi commercials. or something.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:07
John McCain knows how to win a war? What war?
posted by box 02 October | 21:07
She's being so contemptuous with these "you're lying about what you said" insinuations.

JOHN MCCAIN KNOWS WHAT EVIL IS, people.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:07
Pulling the P.O.W card....woo
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:07
Oh, the moderator is going THERE....
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:07
Palin? You should stop trying to be cute about breaking the fourth wall because people are fact-checking both of you AS YOU SPEAK. Not tomorrow.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 21:08
STOP WINKING
posted by gaspode 02 October | 21:09
The most important election since 1930's....

that's what they said in 04...
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:09
STOP SAYING YOU ARE MAVERICKS. YOU ARE NOT MAVERICKS. YOU ARE SIMPLY DELUDED. YOU ARE THE VERY ESSENCE OF "THE MAN".

"reality from Wasilla Main St."??? You mean from the meth addicts?
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:10
Wink!

posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:10
The word Maverick is actually making me sick when I hear her/His may it.

I am so sick of this main street crap. As if urban communities want anything different.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:10
You should stop trying to be cute
Se's so BUBBLY... that's it, I've changed my mind, let her be president she's so cute.
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:11
Biden goes to Home Depot...well I go to Lowes so I guess.....
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:11
Team of Mavericks!

Association of Organized Anarchists!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:11
IF HIGHER TAXES "KILLS JOBS" THEN WHY IS EVERY *OTHER* WESTERN COUNTRY CURRENTLY DOING BETTER ECONOMICALLY THAN THE US??????

Sorry for the caps. I get excited.

DOGGONE IT
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:11
Yeah, like they'd tell YOU to your face, Joe..

Ah, the Reagan response....
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:11
Joe's answering folksy with folksy, good for him. Can't let her have a monopoly on rhetoric that they stole from us in the first place.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:12
There's a shoutout.
posted by box 02 October | 21:12
I've changed my mind, let her be president she's so cute.
She's like a little Alaskan Hello Kitty. Only less substantive.
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 21:12
"Shout out to my 3rd grade homies!"
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 21:13
That being nice while being COMPLETELY nasty underneath is just terrifying. My God! it's like she's answering a pageant question.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:13
Call out to 3rd graders!

Yeah, cause she's speaking to voters as if they were 3rd graders.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:13
RRRRRRrramp it UP!
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:13
I think the third graders have a better vocabulary than her.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:14
But how did they do in swimsuit and evening gown?
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:15
They probably know more about dinosaurs, too.
posted by box 02 October | 21:15
That's a smart reply from Biden.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:16
it's like she's answering a pageant question.

I think the third graders have a better vocabulary than her.

Yes and yes.

I like how Biden calls Barack "Barack". There's something so distant about Palin calling McCain "Senator McCain".
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:16
I do NOT want to be exposed to Biden in a swimsuit.

OR an evening gown.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:17
"Vice President Cheney's probably been the most dangerous president in the United States history".

Awesome.
posted by gaspode 02 October | 21:17
She's going for sounding respectful of age, there.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:17
I can't believe they're having to discuss the role of the VP given that it's in the constitution (yes?) but I'm glad Biden is able to demonstrate that he actually knows the answer.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:18
C'mon, Ifill, you've got to pick your spot and this is it.
posted by box 02 October | 21:18
Oh boy, experience.

A Huge state? is that in population or land mass?
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:19
Again, Governor Palin, what is your weakest trait?
posted by box 02 October | 21:19
His or her...BURN!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:19
If she also had to struggle for health care, then why is she still against a system that works like Europe, Canada?
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:19
You're supposed to disagree about Cheney's view of the VP being part of the Legislative branch, Palin. Don't tie yourself with a man who has 20 percent popularity. I have no idea why she would agree with this.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 21:20
exceptionalism?

Invoking Ronnie again. I like that.

Meatbomb, I was once in a hospital in NC being cared for by a nurse from Canada.

She liked our system MUCH better.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:20
Gee, if she would NOT have McCain lawyers obfuscating and delaying getting her financial record made public, maybe we could help her find a way to pay for her kids education.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:20
DON'T FORGET MY RETARDED BABY! I ALMOST FORGOT TO MENTION HIM!

Disgusting.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:21
Invoking Ronnie again. I like that.

She's sounds like him. Post-Alzheimers.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:22
Oh Dear, Biden's chocking up. I don't know how I feel about that.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:22
Jesus, Joe, you almost YAWNED when you talked about your passion.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:22
OH GO JOE!!!! My roommate and I just high-fived each other. It was great!
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 21:22
The US should absolutely NOT be "unapologetic". That makes me want to ralph. I hate her even more right now.

So glad he mentioned the Violence Against Women act and that McCain voted against it.

Whoa. He just got choked up about his daughter's death.

I hate to be callous but I think he will win points for that section. He seemed really, really human and HUMANE. It was more than platitudes, it was real. To hear Palin go on about "reaching across the aisle" and repeating the "maverick" mantra seems all the more hollow for it.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:22
(((Joe the Daddy))))
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 21:23
Go Joe!
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:24
"He's been no maverick.."

About time somebody said it. Good work, Joe. Calling yourself a maverick dosen't make it so anymore than buying a rope makes you a fucking cowboy.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:24
Meatbomb, I was once in a hospital in NC being cared for by a nurse from Canada.

She liked our system MUCH better.


Bunnyfire.
Don't even.
I will go to the mat about this.

One nurse does not equal data.

Lots of nurses go to the US because there are way more jobs and they make more money there. That is more about THEIR decisions than about our system.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:24
MAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICK
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:24
Out of the four of them Biden does seem the most real. I grant you that.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:24
McCain and Palin: Mavericks without a clue
posted by zerokey 02 October | 21:24
STOP! SAYING! MAVERICK! ALL OF YOU!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:25
Calling yourself a maverick dosen't make it so anymore than buying a rope makes you a fucking cowboy.

TOTAL LOLZZZZZ
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:25
MAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICKMAVERICK

Leave James Garner out of this.

Out of the four of them Biden does seem the most real. I grant you that.

That's the decent compassionate smart bunnyfire I know sensing that. Listen to her.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:26
There were times? Why don't you bring up something?

Oh, you worked it out? Riiiight...
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:26
She just had a perfect opportunity to talk about the bridge to nowhere and explain why she changed her mind due to changing realities and she didn't do it. WHY?
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:27
I think that the U.S. Americans will find Palin did well tonight. Because, in the aspect of, with the jobs, you know, and, he's a Maverick!
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:27
She sat up with me all night in the Intensive Care unit and talked to me about the difficulty of actually accessing the care.

What's worse-not being able to pay for the care or not being able to get it in a timely manner-I have heard of cases of folks with cancer who could not get MRIs in time where what would have been treatable turned out to be untreatable by the time they actually got the access.

And I say that as a person with no health insurance myself. Yes we need a change, but the canadian model is not what we need.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:27
STOP! SAYING! MAVERICK! ALL OF YOU!

≡ Click to see image ≡

What?
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:27
'Maverick' mostly makes me think about that Tom Cruise movie. What was it called? Cockpit?
posted by box 02 October | 21:28
Folks of all political persuasions in her family. Separationists, for example.
posted by box 02 October | 21:28
What's worse-not being able to pay for the care or not being able to get it in a timely manner-

That's like asking what's worse-constipation or diarrhea? Neither one is any kind of Mardi Gras. I'm sure there's problems with socialized medicine and I'm sure that nurse had legitimate beefs. But our system in the US is fucked up, too.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:29
What a shame, this format sucked... Sarah never had to move off her talking points.
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:29
BREATHE SARAH! B-R-E-A-T-H-E!!!!!!!!
posted by KevinSKomsvold 02 October | 21:29
'Maverick' mostly makes me think about that Tom Cruise movie. What was it called? Cockpit?


that's Top Gun.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:30
"It's gonna be okay."

We are not scared of monsters in the closet, Mom. This is about being a VP.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:30
Jonmc, it's diarrhea. Definitely messier.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:30
guys, it's gunna be o.k.
palin knows it is.

What's worse-not being able to pay for the care or not being able to get it in a timely manner-I have heard of cases of folks with cancer who could not get MRIs in time where what would have been treatable turned out to be untreatable by the time they actually got the access.


Look, if you're trying to say that your system leaves fewer people to die without care I take exception to that.

This thread is not for this. But anyone who takes an exceptional case like that and uses it as a broad brush is being willfully ignorant, period. You are parroting your politicians, who have fed that line to your people for years to keep people afraid and ultimately to keep the private insurance industry that supports them very, very rich.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:31
It's up to me to pay my mortgage,not the government. Yeesh.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:32
I think, given the low expectations for Gov. Palin tonight, that even though they both seemed to do okay, She will "win" this debate.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:33
Closing statements:

Palin: Quoting Reagan = bad. All this talk of fighting is bad, too. Not good to mention "sunset" when talking of your candidate who is over 70.

Biden: Good on hitting your talking points as cleanly as possible. Better ending line.

Man, I'm totally spent now.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 21:33
Loiseau, we get the care, it just bankrupts us.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:33
"May God protect our troops"

how about "May God have mercy on your souls"
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:33
Biden just asked how Gwen's leg is.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:34
family feud
posted by Meatbomb 02 October | 21:34
I think Biden did very well. Palin did dramatically better than everyone thought she would do. Everybody expected her to fall on her face.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 21:34
They both did well. And Biden doesn't make me grind my teeth, happily.
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 21:34
This has been a great thread! Catch ya' again for the next Pres debate.
posted by hellojed 02 October | 21:35
It's up to me to pay my mortgage,not the government. Yeesh.


Part of me - a big part - is a bit pissed that now in part, after people did not read their mortgage fine print, we are in this mess.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:35
She will "win" this debate.

I dunno, If there's anything making me frustrated with my own party lately it's this fatalism.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:35
I like Joe Biden. And I thought he did really well.

Palin did fine.
posted by gaspode 02 October | 21:35
Palin did really well at memorizing platitudes, clichés, colloquialisms and talking points. As far as I'm concerned there was very little actual CONTENT behind her statements.

Again: just like a pageant contestant. Just bluster your way through with "poise".
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:36
If there's anything making me frustrated with my own party lately it's this fatalism.


You've got a real good point there.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:37
GOD, I wish I could read lips.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:37
The very fact that there was little substance behind Palin's statements PROVES that she is an outsider. At least, that is how I believe she will be perceived.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:38
As in the last debate, I don't think there were any huge surprises. Partisans will see what they want to see.

On C-Span, they're showing Biden introducing his family to Gwen Ifill. Palin, for whatever reason, didn't do that.
posted by box 02 October | 21:39
Palin did really well at memorizing platitudes, clichés, colloquialisms and talking points. As far as I'm concerned there was very little actual CONTENT behind her statements.

Yes. It wasn't an actual debate.
posted by LoriFLA 02 October | 21:39
I think it's fair to say that, based only on her appearance tonight, she'd make a lousy fucking president. But we knew that.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 21:40
Where was Stewriffic tonight? It wasn't the same.
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:41
Palin exceeded expectations. The lowest expectations ever. I hope though I never have to hear her voice again, it's nails on chalkboard to me.

Joe Biden is great, genuine and knowledgeable. I hope the events of this week make people realize that you want smarts, knowledge and the honesty to say when things aren't doing fine. "facts matter" - Joe Biden.
posted by kodama 02 October | 21:41
This guy on PBS just said that Palin did really well as long as you feel that Tina Fey set the bar. Hee!
posted by loiseau 02 October | 21:42
But she can see Russia from her house!

Hell, I can see the Empire State Building from my house, that dosen't make me King Kong.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:42
What do you suppose will be dragged out of the magic bag JUST before the election to help the McCain candidacy?
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:43
C-Span caller: "I'm for Senator McCain, and, Governor Biden, I think she held her own tonight... so I'm for Senator McCain." Might be one of those low-information voters.
posted by box 02 October | 21:46
And Jon, you live in Astoria(?) but that doesn't make you a queen. Does it?
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:47
And Jon, you live in Astoria(?) but that doesn't make you a queen.

Only on weekends.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:48
Palin did much better than I thought, but she stuck to the things she'd rehearsed over and over and never deviated. When she was stuck she'd just repeat something she'd already said.

I thought Biden was good. He has a great smile too, and I think the part where he choked up and said that just because he's a man doesn't mean he has no idea about what it's like being a single parent was a winning moment for him.
posted by essexjan 02 October | 21:50
"If the question is can she stand there and say stuff, yes, she proved that. If the question is, which one would you be comfortable succeeding to the Presidency and taking that job, I don't think she did that." - commenter on the radio just now
posted by Miko 02 October | 21:51
Jan, if the Republican ticket wins the election, will you be ready to temporarily put-up lot's of Ameribuns who move to the UK?
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:52
Cause, you know, I cook really well and know hospital corners.
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:54
I don't care who wins, I'm not moving. That's the kind of fatalism I was talking about, MonkeyButter.
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:54
What, MonkeyButter, you want to crash in on our own sub-prime mortgage crash, banking meltdown, economic recession and fruitless spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
posted by essexjan 02 October | 21:55
Agreed. I'm sticking, because I'm American, damnnit!
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 21:55
Fuckin' A!
posted by jonmc 02 October | 21:56
And Jon, you live in Astoria

Shit, MonkeyButter, don't say where he lives, he'll threaten you with his lawyers.

Oh, sorry, my mistake, that was chuckdarwin. I get those two mixed up all the time.
posted by essexjan 02 October | 21:57
Sure Jan, at least I won't have to be governed by homophobs and really, the UK is like America-lite anyway.

/ducks

(just being ironical, guys)
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 21:57
You know, AS A MOM (though not of the HOCKEY variety), I cringe every time they hand that teeny baby to the five year old. I didn't let my kindergartner walk around with her infant brother. That's just asking for trouble (and waaaay more responsibility than a kid that age should have).
posted by jrossi4r 02 October | 22:02
I cringe every time they hand that teeny baby to the five year old

My wife was actually screaming at the television about that. DON'T DROP THE SPECIAL NEEDS BABY!
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 22:04
@ColdChef: That's what my roommate was saying, too! Except with an Irish accent.
posted by TrishaLynn 02 October | 22:05
That five-year-old needs to stop licking her baby brother. It's gross.
posted by brina 02 October | 22:10
Night all, great thread!
posted by MonkeyButter 02 October | 22:11
Where was Stewriffic tonight? It wasn't the same.

...pant...pant...pant...

HERE I AM!

Three local non-profit agencies hosted a "Vino and the Veeps" event at a gay bar tonight. So I watched along with Planned Parenthood, NARAL and our statewide LGBT rights organization supporters. It was fun.

(But I have to say I missed y'all!)
posted by Stewriffic 02 October | 23:37
That sounds extremely fun!
posted by Miko 02 October | 23:42
I watched with some friends.
we couldn't tell if she bombed or won.
Like, we thought she could barely string a sentence together, and was reading from notes, regardless of the question.
But, we're all fancypants east coast liberals.

I really wonder if she looked as clueless to undecided voters as she did to us. But then, the expectations could mean she won because she didn't trip and say "fall down go boom!" just before threatening to bomb russia that it was a success.
posted by kellydamnit 02 October | 23:49
If you're undecided at this point, you're a damn fool.
posted by ColdChef 02 October | 23:58
Just for fun, Wordles from the debate transcript text of each candidate:

Palin:

≡ Click to see image ≡

Biden:

≡ Click to see image ≡
posted by taz 03 October | 02:31
But who said 'Bush' more often?
posted by box 03 October | 07:56
If you're undecided at this point, you're a damn fool.
A common concern of people that I have spoken to is that, while most don't want McCain for president, America may just not be ready to vote in a black man as president. I hope to god they're wrong, but people do strange things when it actually comes to casting their vote.
posted by dg 03 October | 08:08
Those wordles say it all: Palin = ALSO GOING, Biden = CHANGE PRESIDENT.

May it be so.
posted by Specklet 03 October | 08:12
I do not see "maverick" in her wordle. I call shenanigans.

(I didn't hear her say "nuclear" last night either.)
posted by casarkos 03 October | 08:26
Can I just say, it gave me the creeps the way Bible Spice kept winking at the camera. The first time, I thought it was inappropriate. By the fourth or fifth time, I was screaming "AUGH! Stop that!" and drawing up into a ball on the couch. It was like someone flirting with you while trying to sell you a used car... very very skeevy.
posted by BoringPostcards 03 October | 08:37
Wynken, Blynken, and Nod?*

≡ Click to see image ≡

Palin is obviously "Wynken"; McCain gets my vote as "Nod" ... and everybody keeps tuning in to see who is going to be "blinken'".

As for me, going from a somewhat tepid Obama supporter (I was split between him and Hillary Clinton, only slightly favoring him, in a wavering sort of way), I must say that I admire his non-blinkingness... for example with the McCain "SUSPEND MY CAMPAIGN" grandstand. Dude.

I've found a lot to admire in Obama's reactions to the McCain camp's reality-show-style histrionics. I love it that when everybody is waving their hands in the air, saying "omg, the Republicans are going to fool everyone again!!! Change strategy! Change strategy! The sky is falling!!!!!!!!" he just keeps on keeping on, mostly right in line with his initial plan, and he keeps being right in the long run. And the calmness...

Seriously, he won't be Blynken. Ever.

*

casarkos, she said "maverick" a lot, but not quite as much as Biden, when he went into his "McCain was not a maverick when he did X"; "McCain was not a maverick when he did Y"; "McCain was not a maverick when he did Z" and so on...
posted by taz 03 October | 11:19
Oh, taz! I heart the wordles!
posted by lysdexic 03 October | 12:17
Last night was pathetic. Watching Sarah Palin speak is like being force-fed 10 gallons of Cool Whip. Enough with the "aw, shucks/doggoneit/gee whiz" folksy bullshit rhetoric.

I spent the majority of this morning scraping my head off the walls from the "Say It Ain't So, Joe!" comment alone.

Biden looked tired at the end. I felt for him. And as much as he got me on the choking up part when thinking about his family, he's done it before, and as much as I admire the man, I'm starting to wonder if he's doing a Hillary now with it.

BUT...he had command of what he was saying. He was forceful when he had to be. So, rock on, Dems.

One month left, kids.
posted by Lipstick Thespian 03 October | 12:19
That much winking is in my experience only associated with estrus mares.
posted by Wolfdog 03 October | 12:22
Oh, god. I think I just fell down the rabbit hole. *completely loses objectivity, turns into tazobamatron*

posted by taz 03 October | 12:35
I am my puppie's keeper.
posted by lysdexic 03 October | 12:56
About the winking - could it have been a makeup malfunction?
posted by lysdexic 03 October | 12:59
nah, it was a pretty clear tee-hee-hee wink.
posted by kellydamnit 03 October | 13:26
I LOVE cool whip.
posted by bunnyfire 03 October | 14:19
And as much as he got me on the choking up part when thinking about his family, he's done it before, and as much as I admire the man, I'm starting to wonder if he's doing a Hillary now with it.

Every now and again I'm asked to tell my AA story at a meeting, and there's a part where I always, always choke up, no matter how much I try not to and no matter how many times in the past I've told the story. I just can't help it. I think it's the same for Biden, and that it's real each time.
posted by essexjan 03 October | 14:38
I hope so, Eedge. I really do.

I just am a cynical, cynical bastard when it comes to this kind of stuff.
posted by Lipstick Thespian 03 October | 14:48
A common concern of people that I have spoken to is that, while most don't want McCain for president, America may just not be ready to vote in a black man as president

It's not real. Remember: Obama doesn't need everybody to vote for him - just enough to win 270 electoral votes. Most people with that big a race hangup weren't going to vote for a Democrat anyway. And finally, it's a coward's argument. The people who float it are quick to assure you that THEY would never be affected by the concern that he's black. It's OTHER people they're worried about. Well, if that's true, then it's like what they told you in school when you tried to tattle on someone else: you take care of yourself. If race doesn't matter to your vote, great. That's one. If you're worried it matters to someone else's vote, then go out and enlist another two or three brand new voters for whom race either isn't an issue or is a decided plus. Which has been one of the strongest Obama strategies.

So don't worry about that kind of doomsaying. It's weak. Yes, America still has racists. But not as many as we think, fear, or for some, wish.
posted by Miko 03 October | 19:21
what's that pin above her flag pin?
posted by bunnyfire 02 October | 20:13


It's a pin for mothers of the deployed. The number of stars indicates how many children you have who are serving or who have served. More info here.

posted by Luminous Phenomena 03 October | 20:02
A gold star means the kid has been killed.
posted by Miko 04 October | 23:12
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