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29 September 2008

Going to Carolina... I am going to visit the BF's family in Rural North Carolina in November. Being a liberal, left coast born and raised gal, I am a little concerned about following etiquette and protocol in that neck of the woods.[More:] I have asked my BF, but he isn't the sort to notice things like this, other than he thinks it is odd I do not address my parents as "ma'am" and "sir" (heck, some of my cousins call their parents by their first names).

People I know who have lived in Dixie have told me there is a very subtle code of conduct there, but no one seems able to explain what this is. Anyone from the old south have any tips or advice?

NOTE: His mother isn't particularly religious or conservative, and I did manage to survive a trip to visit my sister in Arkansas without being chased out of town by people with pitchforks and torches.
I'd say that, as with visiting anywhere, be polite, be genuine, take your cue from your hosts. It's the south, not the Death Star--if you misstep, most people will understand.
posted by elizard 29 September | 14:24
People I know who have lived in Dixie have told me there is a very subtle code of conduct there,

Yeah, you're a visitor, you're a guest, be polite. It's as simple as that. People overstate the cultural differences between South and North. If there are new accents and different foods, enjoy them. If you object to some of the choices people make, don't pick fights with them about it. If someone asks you point blank what you believe about something, say it calmly and politely. But you're not going into a nest of vipers or something. People are people everywhere. They vary. When traveling, it's always best to be pleasant and make a good impression - so do the same things on your visit to NC that you would anywhere.
posted by Miko 29 September | 14:29
Between this and this, I swear, sometimes I despair.

You know, I've thought about visiting the west coast but then I've heard such - strange - things about the weirdos who live out there, horrible creepy Manson family devotees and serial murderers and road rage and damn, you know, seems like they aren't hardly human at all. What if I do something wrong and they kill and eat me?

Look, evilcupcakes. I have lived a lot of my life in the rural South and I'm still here. This attitude that everyone below the Mason-Dixon line is a violent redneck a la Deliverance is just as true as the attitude that everyone in California is a whacked out hippie freak. And it makes me tired.
posted by mygothlaundry 29 September | 14:35
Sure, just be polite and genuine. You start ma'aming and sirring, people might think you're making fun of them.

People are people, despite cultural differences. This is true the world over.
posted by mudpuppie 29 September | 14:35
You'll be fine. If you are offered tea, it will be iced and it will be sweet. If you are served grits, put butter and salt on them. (NOT SUGAR AND CREAM!)

I recommend you stick to light subjects, and depending on the individuals, don't discuss politics-or if you do, don't expect to go into great detail. Follow your boyfriend's lead here.

Politeness is incredibly important. It is also important NOT to give the impression you are "stuck-up." Which in translation means, if you are shy, try not to show it, and smile a lot at people.

By all means make sure you get some barbecue while you are there. Mmmmm....

(as far as yes ma'am and no sir, if you are talking to older people, consider using the phrases. Again, watch and see what others do. It is most important that children use these phrases, but we adults do use them depending on circumstances. No one will stone you if you don't, though. If you had a kid with you, though, it would be of vital-VITAL importance.)

If you think of any specific questions, let me know. These are my peeps.

finally, don't worry about it-the culture IS subtle, but if you are halfway sensitive you will pick up on it. And no one will say anything rude to you to your face. They will wait till you leave the room for that. ;-)
posted by bunnyfire 29 September | 15:01
If something bad happens, just brush it off by saying "aw, it don't make no nevermind" in an Andy Griffith kind of way. It's also good to know all the lyrics to Kenny Rogers' "The Gambler", cuz sometimes they'll just break into it down there. And whatever you do, don't bring up The Civil War.
posted by Hellbient 29 September | 15:05
If you're not visiting until November, you'll have plenty of time to learn to play the spoons.

(Where in Arkansas does your sister live?)
posted by box 29 September | 15:12
I think you'll be OK. If you put cream and sugar on your grits, people will smile and think, "Oh, but aren't people strange?" rather than, "Oh, evilcupcakes is a terrible person!"

When I visit Massachusetts, I always forget that I am expected to take my boots/shoes off immediately when I entera house, even if it isn't snowing outside. I also tend to call my elders by their first name if I know it. I haven't been crucified yet :)
posted by muddgirl 29 September | 15:40
OMG! Kinston - not too rural, but not a Big City. And, it's eastern NC style BBQ w/ vinegar instead of ketchup there.

You'll be fine. If he likes you, they'll at least be really pleasant. (unless there's some hidden family drama that's never spoken but always implied).

It's them who will be worried about making sure you feel at home. Just go with the flow.
posted by mightshould 29 September | 16:05
At the border, you will be issued a banjo and overalls. It is supposed to sound that way and they are supposed to fit like that.

Also, the only types of food available will be variations of deep-fried pork. Please track your daily consumption on the handy Tallow Tally (included). You will be expected to turn in a completed tally every night after supper before the prayer meetin' starts. Failure to turn in a tally or the turning-in of an insufficiently fat-laden tally may result in forced funneling of sausage gravy until an appropriate cholesterol level is achieved. Also, the term "white lightnin'" is tres passé: the preferred nomenclature is "moonshine" or "corn squeezins".

The natives are known for their colorful accents and endearing eccentricities, such as shucking and jiving, picking and grinning, and incest. You may be overwhelmed at first, as many natives will want to touch your hair and marvel at the straightness of your teeth. Do not be alarmed. This is friendly, welcoming behavior. Accepting the ritual offerings of green-bean casserole and full-immersion baptism will go far in establishing trust.

As your time among the natives is limited, it is recommended that you take lots of photographs, so others can vicariously enjoy the moonlight and magnolia! Photography of natives is OK -- just get their permission first and reassure them that the magic box will not steal their souls.

(And butter and honey (or sorghum or molasses) is perfectly acceptable on plain grits. And delicious. For real real.)
posted by BitterOldPunk 29 September | 16:06
Drive on the right, spit to the left.

Kinston is close enough to the coast to be somewhat accustomed to non-southerners around. Wilmington is a popular destination for major movie makers and has a nuclear plant to the north. The beaches are popular spots for northerners.

Show an interest in the food, and try to hit a bunch of local restaurants. Like the BBQ, the deep-fried seafood in that area is quite distinctive and as fresh as you're gonna get. For some reason though, beer does not seem to go well with it (probably just me). Also good, brunswick stew and hushpuppies.
posted by Ardiril 29 September | 17:40
This attitude that everyone below the Mason-Dixon line is a violent redneck a la Deliverance is just as true as the attitude that everyone in California is a whacked out hippie freak. And it makes me tired.


Wow. I don't recall making any such accusation anywhere in my post. I mean, I really wouldn't be dating a southerner if I thought they were a bunch of streotypical inbred morons. But hey man, if that's where you need to take...

Really what I was more concerned about was the little traditions or gestures. For example, do I bring my boyfriend's mother a hostess gift? If so, are there certain things that are more appropriate than others? when one dresses for dinner (which is something people in Seattle don't usually do) what is appropriate? If someone asks me what church I attend (which I guess isn't an uncommon topic of small talk), and I am not a church-going girl, what is a polite way to answer?
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 17:45
just as true as the attitude that everyone in California is a whacked out hippie freak. And it makes me tired.

As a native Californian, I'd like to go ahead and reinforce this stereotype if at all possible, because it tickles me pink. Any suggestions? Would having an all tye-dye dresscode at meetups do anything towards it?
posted by small_ruminant 29 September | 17:56
And whatever you do, don't bring up The Civil War.


OOOOOH yeah. I know that first hand. the History channel leads to a lot of me smiling and nodding, "yes dear, Lincoln was evil... uh huh, the south shall rise again..."
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 17:57
If the BF isn't concerned, I think you have nothing to worry about.
posted by Ardiril 29 September | 18:05
LOL BitterOldPunk!
posted by halonine 29 September | 18:08
My great grandmother called it the War of Northern Aggression.
posted by small_ruminant 29 September | 18:18
I would suggest that "be polite" could be expanded, in many cases, to "be polite by not rushing interactions."

When traveling in the south, and especially in the rural south, I expect simple transactions --- buying a can of Coke in a gas station, paying a check in a restaurant, asking directions --- to take longer and to involve more chat than similar interactions would take in, say, rural New Hampshire.

That was my experience as a child, anyway, when we made our yearly round-trip round trips between Maine, Florida, and Texas, and on long car trips made more recently. People we met along the way genuinely wanted to know who we were, where we wear heading, and why. That rarely happened in New England.

As for "ma'am" and "sir," I say that's a judgement call. At a family wedding this weekend, a visiting southern woman Of A Certain Age asked me for help; I instinctively responded "Yes'm!"
posted by Elsa 29 September | 18:38
There are no hostess gift traditions unless your bf says it's a good idea - however, it depends on how "proper" they are. If they are cotillion types, then something would be nice - right now, I couldn't guess.

Church - just say you haven't found one so far, but will be glad to go with them. They should be fine with the thought that you are open. Now, this all supposes that they aren't the uber-religious type. You should know something about them from your bf.

And, nobody I know dresses for supper. If they're real southern, it's supper - but that is no longer the understood term. See, dinner used to be the meal you had in the middle of the day because that's when the farmhands had the largest meal. Then, at night was a lite supper... But, if you've been out to the nearby swimming hole, you should get dressed before the evening meal. Nothing major, just some clothes other than bathing suit. Once again, don't stress.
posted by mightshould 29 September | 18:39
And butter and honey (or sorghum or molasses) is perfectly acceptable on plain grits. And delicious. For real real

That? Is utter blasphemy. You might as well put cilantro on them. *shudder*

And Elsa is right about interactions. If you are too abrupt with folks here they will definitely take it as rude. Unless something is on fire.
posted by bunnyfire 29 September | 19:04
(Where in Arkansas does your sister live?)


She lives in Jonesboro. She married a southerner :D
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:34
It is also important NOT to give the impression you are "stuck-up." Which in translation means, if you are shy, try not to show it, and smile a lot at people.


I think that's my biggest concern. I have a tendency to clam up when I am not sure of what to say... either that or just start nervously yammering. I was just trying to get a few pointers so I would have something to fall back on in case of social panic.
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:36
...the preferred nomenclature is "moonshine" or "corn squeezins".


Hahaha! My BF hadn't actually heard the term "corn squeezins" before he met me. He may be southern, but I am by FAR the bigger hillbilly.

PS it is required, anytime you refer to corn squeezins, to slap your hat on your knee and dance a jig like Gabby Hayes.
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:40
OMG! Kinston - not too rural, but not a Big City.


LOL to hear him tell it you have to wrastle a bar (bear)with a rock and a stick to cross the river to get to school each day, and that's before nightfall when the gators chase you back home.

I am excited to try the BBQ. And according to him Bojangles Chicken is nirvana... even though the name makes me think of Ghost World...
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:44
As a native Californian, I'd like to go ahead and reinforce this stereotype if at all possible, because it tickles me pink.


As a previous Californian I second this motion!
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:46
If they are cotillion types, then something would be nice - right now, I couldn't guess.


My BF is the only person I have ever met who has actually been to a cotillion. I just wasn't sure if there were any standards or considerations for such things. Here I would bring a bottle of good wine, but his mother doesn't drink. LOL I know I am not going to Japan or anything, but I am a bit nervous about making a good impression AND not coming across as a snotty yankee* with no manners.

*technically correct, since my dad's is from Maine.. I guess that counts against you to some people ;)
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 19:51
And according to him Bojangles Chicken is nirvana

I had Bojangles' once (for the life of me I can't remember where or when, but it was when i was a kid), I remember it being really good.
posted by jonmc 29 September | 19:58
Wow. I don't recall making any such accusation anywhere in my post

I can see how your question got MGL's goat, though. People do seem to paint Southerners with a broad brush in a way that other regional cultures don't get, and it is tiresome. Especially because like in your question, people often express fear. There's nothing much to be afraid of, and yet there you go. Also, it's wearing on a soul to be constantly explaining that it's not Gone With The Wind.

Your heart's obviously in the right place. It's kind to consider other cultures and want to respect them as much as possible. Like others have said, we have more in common than we do differences. I like to take joy in the little things that truly are different. (Don't expect too much from Bojangles, though. It's fine, but I bet his attraction is at least in part sentimental.)

when one dresses for dinner

This shouldn't be an issue. I've never heard of someone dressing for dinner unless they're going to a particularly fancy restaurant or it's a special occasion.

If someone asks me what church I attend (which I guess isn't an uncommon topic of small talk), and I am not a church-going girl, what is a polite way to answer?

I've rarely had this posed to me--maybe a handful of times in the twenty years I've lived in the south. I think it would be more likely a topic if you were moving there. I'm not a church-going gal, either. My response is usually just a simple "Oh, I don't go to church" and a quick subject change.

As to a hostess gift, I usually wait until I get there to size up what would be appropriate, and give it before I leave.


I guess that counts against you to some people

Sigh. See, this kind of thinking is the type of preconception that gets old. When I've heard this kind of reference, it's only ever been in a lighthearted and jokey manner. True jokey, not some "Bless her heart" jokey. And the sterotypical passive aggressive "Bless her heart" comment rarely happens in reality also.

In a nutshell, observe the differences, but don't let them tie you up in anxious knots before you go. Be kind, be respectful, and be yourself.

And welcome to North Carolina!
posted by Stewriffic 29 September | 20:06
Sigh. See, this kind of thinking is the type of preconception that gets old.


I only mentioned it because I work with a guy from Raleigh who told me his grandfather was from NY, and I guess this subject was considered "forbidden" in his family.

Then again, maybe his family is just weird about that kind of thing :D
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 20:37
Especially because like in your question, people often express fear.


I think for me if I were just going there to see the sights or visit close friends or family I would have no qualms about it, but since the BF and I have been together for almost 3 years and are very serious, I feel the need to make as good an impression as possible with minimal learning curve... if you know what I mean. I am sure his family will be fine with me (barring any major faux pas) but I would like to go into it looking like I have tried to acclimate myself. So I am not afraid to ask stupid questions NOW :D
posted by evilcupcakes 29 September | 20:44
Be genuine. It's appreciated everywhere.
Be yourself. Don't "try to fit in" or assume behaviors.
Be respectful. The true mark of a lady or gentleman is kindness and consideration of your company, to put them at ease. Should they falter, it is their social crime.

If we are talking about "old money" and he's not worried, i wouldn't worry, but little niceities like a modest hostess gift and something to wear to dress for dinner like a decent modest dress is… nice.
posted by ethylene 29 September | 21:08
Actually the cotillion thing brings up a good point-are these country-club Southerners?

Then you can definitely relax. You'll be just fine. You'll probably actually get to discuss politics safely. But you tell your BF if he doesn't see to it you get some barbecue while you are down here I will personally drive over and kick his BEhind.
posted by bunnyfire 29 September | 23:10
My great grandmother called it the War of Northern Aggression.


Well, the winners are the ones who get to name the war. But you don't realy need or want to point this out to anyone.

If someone asks me what church I attend (which I guess isn't an uncommon topic of small talk), and I am not a church-going girl, what is a polite way to answer?


"I don't really go to church myself." "I don't belong to a church." "I'm not much for organized religion." "I occasionally attend church services, but haven't found one I wanted to join." "I grew up Catholic, but as I got older I got away from going to services and these days you could say I'm lapsed."

In other words, a polite way to respond is to say whatever is true without insulting your interlocutor. People can handle it!

I agree if they invite you to church, it would be a nice gesture to go along with them, and ask some interested questions about it.

but since the BF and I have been together for almost 3 years and are very serious, I feel the need to make as good an impression as possible with minimal learning curve...


It sounds like you are tying yourself up in knots to a great degree. You're not meeting "some Southerners," you're meeting your boyfriend's family. You'll perceive and adapt to anything you're not familiar with. You'll be a lovely guest. And you will make a good (enough) impression. Or not. Sometimes life is messy. Maybe it'll go terribly, and you'll need two or three years to recover. Maybe you'll be like my mom, who moved to East Texas and made a fine impression, but was still considered slightly 'off,' somewhat eccentric and oddly mannered, by my dad's parents for as long as they lived, though her production of grandchildren and good-sportiness won her welcome anyway. The hard part is not that they're Southern, the hard part is that they're potential in-laws, or at least in-your-lifes. And there are all kinds of crazy that come with that. And those things aren't regional.

You're not going to fool them into thinking you were raised in the South, and you don't need to be fake. But there are all kinds of people there as elswhere. I was just watching Tony Bourdain's "No Reservations" series where he mentions how he considers everything outside of New York City sort of like a foreign country, and that that helps him, in a way, have better interactions with peopole. Because if he was traveling in, say, Tanzania or Mongolia or Finland, he would keep an open mind and try to be a pleasant guest and enjoy the local culture, no matter how odd or impenetrable it felt to him. And he realized that he would have better travel experiences if he could "cut other Americans the same slack" he's willing to when he does foreign travel. And that's an excellent suggestion.

Relish the fun cultural differences, but don't make too much of them. Be honest and be yourself.

Seems to me a hostess gift is always appropriate. I like to bring something to eat that's regional when I'm visiting another place - like, from Maine, blueberry jam or maple syrup in a nice jar or package. Something they're not likely to find at their grocery, but that is not a big deal.
posted by Miko 29 September | 23:22
"if he doesn't see to it you get some barbecue": ... and not one of those businesses inside the town limits either that looks like the property is worth over $150K. You want one that is built out of cinder blocks about 3 miles outside of town. Trust me on this one.
posted by Ardiril 29 September | 23:46
What Ardiril said. I've lived in North Carolina (and South Carolina, and Gerogia, and Florida, and Texas, and Louisiana), and basically, the important thing is the barbecue. Eat it.

I'm not a southerner, but I lived in the south most of my life, and there's nothing to be worried about. Southern people are nice, and the food is great. There are different and mysterious things to parse (same as everywhere), but only if you live there... and even then, eh, meh, whatever. Southerners generally will go out of their way to make you feel comfortable and included. Typical southerners will maybe joke with you and tease you more than in the north, and in exchanges between people, especially within families, what sounds like fighting will probably not really be fighting (like Greece and Italy!).

Mostly, barbecue.
posted by taz 30 September | 01:52
and not one of those businesses inside the town limits either that looks like the property is worth over $150K.

So true. The best Texas BBQ I've ever eaten was served up in an old converted gas station.
posted by muddgirl 30 September | 09:25
The best Texas BBQ I've ever eaten was served up in an old converted gas station.

My grandmother used to get her barbecue at a gas station. I think it still sold gas, as well. The best part was that she would just bring her big steel pot along and get it filled with BBQ to warm up at home. Didn't even bother with a package.
posted by Miko 30 September | 17:04
heh - my inlaws live in Kinston!

I recommend C.H.A.P.S. restaurant for fried fish, if that's something you like.

we never go anywhere when we visit, so I can't say that I know of anything to do there other than go to Wal-Mart, sorry :-)
posted by pinky.p 01 October | 16:58
Sea Turtles are back in Calif! || Stripey dog question.

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