MetaChat - Why can't we be friends?

Another uninteresting observation:

I have had the same next-door-neighbor for ten years. Every Saturday without fail he washes, dries, and spiffies his car from top to bottom and mows the lawn. Every Monday through Friday after work he takes a walk around our one mile block. I wish I had that discipline.

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 11:49

I really wish I had the ability to talk to people off the cuff. Not often, but once in a while I'll see someone I'd want to talk to (and not just an omg cute girl). But I don't have the ability to pull it off, keep my head about me, and speak like a normal person.

posted by DarkForest 12 July | 12:28

because you're concerned with looking good, which is human and ordinary. nothing wrong or unusual about it.

let me tell you though, letting go of that concern opens an entire new world of possible friends. I can talk to absolutely anyone now without regard to how they'll perceive me. Obviously I am polite and follow social conventions, but I don't let fear stop me. Remember that she is just as concerned about looking good for you as you are for her.

DarkForest - you don't need to speak like a normal person. You need to speak like YOU. If she likes you, she's gonna find out who you are eventually anyway. If she doesn't like you for who you are then you're not meant to be friends. Simple.

Just practice. Say hello to EVERYONE you pass by. EVERY SINGLE PERSON. You will feel like a giant dork at first but you'll be shocked at how many people engage with you. There is nothing to fear. It's all just words.

posted by desjardins 12 July | 12:38

There are so many interesting and nice people out there and I do not know ye.

For me, just being positioned next to somebody in a public place is not enough to start a friendship. Personally, I'm reserved in public places and don't particularly like to get into lengthy conversations with people I don't know.

So I have to start with a common interest and then spend some time talking gradually. Most of the friends I've made as an adult (interesting and nice people all!) have been made through shared interests -- running, Slow Food, volunteering, community radio, going to book talks, outdoor events, etc. When you are working on a project or meeting for a purpose regularly, friendships start much more easily.

posted by Miko 12 July | 12:51

Yeah, I say hello a lot. I'm a smiley, say hello kind of person. I was joking, a little. If I wanted to talk to her I would have. I guess I was trying to look good, or not come off as crazy. If I did have an overwhelming urge I would have said something. Knowing me, if by some freak chance we did strike up a gym friendship I would be kicking myself. Now I have to talk to this person when all I want to do is exercise? I'm never satisfied. ;-)

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 12:51

I was on the elliptical yesterday sweating ...

And I think, "she looks like a really nice person. I bet we could be friends."

Wow, you're either a lot nicer or in much better shape than I am (or, probably, both). When I'm on any training machine, the only thing in my head is the cursing.

Now I have to talk to this person when all I want to do is exercise?

Now, that sounds like me.

posted by Elsa 12 July | 12:59

Ha, Elsa. At around 40 minutes you reach an elliptical high. :-)

I missed your comment, Miko. Yes, I agree. I tend to be reserved as well in public places, as I think most people are. It doesn't seem natural to strike up a conversation with a person just because they are in the same line or place. It's just that sometimes I want to broaden my horizons and meet more people.

I tend to romanticize and idealize. In reality the woman in the gym could have hated cats or something strange like that.

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 13:03

I'm reserved in public places and don't particularly like to get into lengthy conversations with people I don't know.

I take live in a small (very small) city and take public transit, so I, too, try to balance friendliness and reserve, or I'll spend every bus ride trying to extricate myself from some near-stranger's idle chatter. (Just a couple of days ago, I asked my mother for a book to borrow for the bus ride home. She offered me a magazine. She was puzzled when I said "No, people talk to you when you're reading a magazine. A book works better.")

On preview: At around 40 minutes you reach an elliptical high. :-)

Oh, of course! Recently, I've only used training machines in phyical therapy, and they keep the machine sessions too short to reach that high.

posted by Elsa 12 July | 13:07

I so totally lied when I said that about the cursing. What's really in my head (and coming quietly out of my mouth when I'm home) is a constant patter of encouragement. I'm my own coach, and I call myself by last name, prep-school style: "Come on, [Lastname], you can do it, only X more reps! Then the butt-crunches!"

Or, less frequently, a sportscaster voiceover a la Bill Murray in Caddyshack: "Who ever would've thought a small-town player like [Lastname] could've made it to this level? It's a real Cinderella story!"

I had to start doing my PT when my partner is out of the house, because the muttering cracks him up, which gets me laughing, and then I can't do the exercises properly.

posted by Elsa 12 July | 13:15

Say hello to EVERYONE you pass by. EVERY SINGLE PERSON.

This would be a challenge on a New York City street. You'd have to be a popcorn machine of hellos to get 'em out fast enough. : )

(Elsa, cursing is my form of self-encouragement.)

posted by Pips 12 July | 13:32

(Pips, for all my Bill-Murray/ Cinderella-storytelling, I still curse when I get to the butt-clenches. Plus, there's this horrid low training sound I make that The Fella says is worrying, but privately I think it turns him on.)

(Oops, not private anymore, is it?)

posted by Elsa 12 July | 13:38

This would be a challenge on a New York City street.

No kidding. Plus, I think the crush of the rejection you would feel as people wordlessly walk by you would quickly put an end to that experiment.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 12 July | 13:38

Yes, pinky, but if you were holding a coffee cup you might get a few coins!

posted by Pips 12 July | 13:41

Living in the kind of place I live people say hello a lot. Recently a person told me to "Smile. It's not that bad." I then had an urge to ram my pen in their eardrum.

That's really funny, Elsa.

When I'm in a really tough spot I crave silence from others but like you, sometimes I give myself little pep talks, or try to really concentrate and get into the zone.

I'm not the kind of person that likes too much cheering on. When I'm on the grueling Gravitron (chin/dip machine) the trainer I work with cheers me, which is kind of annoying. I guess it works because I do a lot more reps than I would have without her, which would be zero.

I think I would have to kill the person that tried to cheer me in labor. I've been lucky enough to see a lot of natural births. What always baffled me is when the male partner would encourage the laboring patient to "get mad". Get mad? What if she isn't the "get mad" type? What if she would like to not be mad on such a happy day? This happened a lot, the "get mad" pep talk. I would much prefer "You Can Do It!" if I had to be cheered. :-)

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 13:47

I've moved a lot my whole life so it's all been a big adventure in trying to meet people and make friends. Experiences like yours, Lori, are what I call "Tuesday".

But I can offer one idea: consistency. If you're there at the same time every time, you'll start to feel like a regular. If you go the same time & day you saw the nicefacelady, you may see her again. After a while, the recognition can become a natural progression into conversation.

I find it harder and harder to make friends. I'm 33 and I'm starting to think that by this age people have their friends and don't really need new ones. But if someone seems receptive to you, with body language or eye contact or whatever, then you have to take that as an opening.

posted by loiseau 12 July | 14:49

Haha Lori. We have been watching a lot of natural birth videos lately, and mr. gaspode has been informed in no uncertain terms that there will be not too much cheering me on. I kind of want to headbutt the men who upon hearing "IT HURRRRTS" respond with "you're doing great, honey". Acknowledge the pain! Then encourage!

posted by gaspode 12 July | 15:03

Acknowledge the pain! Then encourage!

Yes. Exactly.

One of the nicest births I've seen is when the father was kind of nervous but obviously very supportive. You could feel the love. He didn't say much of anything but rub the woman's back and help hold her legs. Then the umbilical cord spontaneously severed when the baby was out and the doctor started exclaiming, "HOLY SHIT! HOLY SHIT!" I was hoping he would have given her the damn baby before he start screaming holy shit. The mom was kind of alarmed. Her baby could have had two heads for all she knew.

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 15:23

because you're concerned with looking good, which is human and ordinary. nothing wrong or unusual about it

Which reminds me of my favorite film dialogue EVAR:

Han: We are all ready to win, just as we are born knowing only life. It is defeat that you must learn to prepare for.
Williams: Don't waste my time with it. When it comes, I won't even notice.
Han: Oh? How so?
Williams: I'll be too busy looking good.

(Jim Kelly as Williams, Kien Shih as Han; Enter the Dragon, 1973)

/derail

posted by BitterOldPunk 12 July | 17:01

I am one of those annoying people who will strike up a conversation while standing in line anywhere. I love to talk to people; many of my customers know me by my first name (and I know theirs). And it's funny, but sometimes people will just come up to me and in minutes I'll know their life story (having only said very few words). Mr. V is always amazed at how much information I can glean in a short period of time. I'm not sure these people qualify as friends, however. But I like to leave 'em with a smile and a laugh.

posted by redvixen 12 July | 18:22

Recently a person told me to "Smile. It's not that bad." I then had an urge to ram my pen in their eardrum.

This made me LOL. I also can identify... I'm a fairly cheerful guy, but when I'm lost in my thoughts (which I am a lot if I'm out in public by myself, like on the train or whatever), apparently I look really serious. People have said things like this to me my whole adult life, and I'm like, "Fuck off, I AM in a good mood."

Er, or something.

posted by BoringPostcards 12 July | 18:47

There are so many interesting and nice people out there

as someone who in the course of the workday interacts with hundreds of people, I can tell you that this is an extremely optimistic view.

posted by jonmc 12 July | 18:55

Huh. This is the first I've heard of a guy being told to smile. I favorited someone's response on mefi to a question from a woman who was being harrassed this way :You want a smile, look in the goddamn mirror!

posted by brujita 12 July | 18:55

This is the first I've heard of a guy being told to smile.

I get that all the time. I seem to go around with that "deer caught in the headlights" look. Once in a while, people ask me if "I'm alright". Sometimes they just roll their eyes at me if I try to talk to them.

I can tell you that this is an extremely optimistic view.

yeah.

posted by DarkForest 12 July | 19:26

We have been watching a lot of natural birth videos lately

I have not had a baby, of course, but I used to watch that having a baby show, where they showed the births, and I highly suggest, if you haven't already, watching some videos with epidurals... The women who had the epidurals were so much more comfortable than the "natural" births. If I were to have a baby, I'd be wantin' me epidural.

posted by Pips 12 July | 19:33

I say we have a birth video film festival! Births all night long!

Just kidding, I'm really not good with blood or pain.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 12 July | 20:02

I say we have a birth video film festival!

Stan Brakhage, Window Water Baby Moving (1959) (NSFW). Part 2.

posted by BoringPostcards 12 July | 20:12

Every time I see a birth on TV I cry. Every time. It's the miracle of life. *tears*

posted by LoriFLA 12 July | 20:26

"Smile. It's not that bad."

When some random stranger last said this to me, "it" was indeed "that bad." I don't think I even responded except with my eyes, my no-doubt dead haunted eyes. He backed away, his idiotic grin dying on his lips.

I always wonder if the people who say nonsense like that to complete strangers are utterly self-centered. Just because you're having a good day, buddy, that doesn't mean I didn't just come from a funeral, or a biopsy, or a car accident.

posted by Elsa 12 July | 20:53

I always wonder if the people who say nonsense like that to complete strangers are utterly self-centered. Just because you're having a good day, buddy, that doesn't mean I didn't just come from a funeral, or a biopsy, or a car accident.

Exactly right. You don't know what kind of day someone is having. I appreciate the impulse to spread cheer in the world, but this is absolutely not the way to go about it.

posted by BoringPostcards 12 July | 21:09

I have a friend who has a natural expression that he says invites plenty of "what's wrong with you"'s from complete strangers. He told me that there's nothing that makes you want to start taking people out like an endless barrage of "what's wrong with you?".

posted by Slack-a-gogo 12 July | 22:00

I am another frequent recipient of the "smile!" people. Just because I have a downturned mouth (so does mr. g, so our kid is so screwed). Fuck the smile people.

I have not had a baby, of course, but I used to watch that having a baby show, where they showed the births, and I highly suggest, if you haven't already, watching some videos with epidurals...

Oh yeah, we have watched those too. We watch a couple at each childbirth class we go to. I see no point in being in extreme pain if you don't need to :)

posted by gaspode 12 July | 22:05

Yay epidural! The thought of the poke in the back used to freak me out, but when I saw it, it didn't seem too bad, and it eased the pain so much. Some of the women even fell asleep through what would have been the most painful part of their labor! And, apparently, it wears off enough towards the end that you can feel enough to push. When my mom had a hysterectomy (she was in her 80s), they gave her an epidural to lessen her post-op pain the first day or so. Worked like a charm. (I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you and your hubby don't know... :)

And not to be too hippy-dippy, but I also once saw a profile of a woman who used self-hypnosis during her labor, instead of the usual Lamaze breathing (I think she had about ten sessions with a hypnosis coach beforehand), and it seemed to help a lot with pain, and the relaxation seemed to help speed dilation and delivery.

(you're very tolerant of me, 'pode... I promise I won't have any actual parenting advice :)

posted by Pips 12 July | 22:39

My SO was very resistant to getting an epidural, but found the pain too intense after 8 hours at the hospital (and a diagnosis of at least several more hours to go). She'd been awake for 36 hours at that point, and went promptly to sleep. The contraction strength monitor immediately went well up from what it had been. She slept for like 3 hours, and the birth came a couple of hours after she woke up. The Dr was insisting on a caesarean at that point because they were having trouble reading the heartbeat and gave her like 15 minutes to push her out, and against her recommendations at that, but she did it. I don't think there's any way she could have done it without the epidural.

for the 2nd, it was all much faster, 2 hrs after getting to the hospital, and no epidural was used, though she screamed bloody murder at the end. Again, the nurse had trouble reading the heartbeat at the end, so they made her push him out quickly. But everything was fine.

That birth tv show is pretty scarey. If it was me, I'd just go caesarean every time.

tmi?

posted by DarkForest 13 July | 01:03

Both epidurals and caesarean's scare the hell out of me. Miklas was all reserved and "it might happe.." but I said no way from the day I knew I was pregnant until after I was done with labour (adding "I told ya so, I knew I could do it" on top).

Dunno why they freak me out, I guess it's like diving and skydiving. I always knew that I could skydive but never dive. I tried diving and I was right - total panic and hyperventilation the moment I was supposed to dive. Too scared of it. Dunno if I have the balls to skydive now though (fear of death is pretty strong once you've spawned)

posted by dabitch 13 July | 04:07

(adding "I told ya so, I knew I could do it" on top).

Yeah. I have a few friends who have that attitude. A little competitive for me ;) I figure, I've never given birth before, I've no idea what the pain level will be. One woman I know said it was no worse than her period cramps; another said it was the worst pain she'd ever been in X 1000 (and she was the staunchest anti-epidural person -- she cried when she finally asked for one because she said she felt like a loser). I am playing everything by ear.

C-sections, nope. That is major surgery. I want to be able to move around and take care of my kid immediately, so no c-section unless it's absolutely medically indicated.

(sorry for the thread derail, Lori)

posted by gaspode 13 July | 09:08

No problem, gaspode! I love baby talk.

I was against induction. I was all for an epidural. I had a C-section. My baby was vertex from 28 weeks on but flipped breach at 40.5 weeks. He flipped to back to vertex the night before my surgery. Nobody knew he was in the head down position again because there was no ultrasound, and babies that are that big and so late in pregnancy that are in a breach position don't usually flip back. I was a little disappointed that I had an unnecessary C-section but all's well that ends well. My doctor was honest with me and told me what the situation was the day of surgery. I wasn't too disappointed. What was done was done, and I was very glad to have a healthy baby, but there should have been another ultrasound. So if anybody is ever in this situation ask for another US! I think I have told this story before here. Apologies for the repeat.

posted by LoriFLA 13 July | 14:09

This is the first I've heard of a guy being told to smile.
I get the "smile, it can't be that bad" thing quite a bit. I usually look the person in the eye and say "actually, it's much worse than that" and look away.

posted by dg 13 July | 16:21

12 July 2008