Oh taz, I'm sorry to read this. I don't know anything about dogs, so can't give any advice but my gut reaction if it were me would be to offer to pay for boarding the mutt in kennels, if that's an option.

I meant I can't give you advice about dog behaviour, as I realise my previous response was advice-giving of a sort.

I'll take a shot at a few things and I will also be furious on your behalf at the people who are doing this to you if you'd like.

I'm with the people telling you to crate, crate, crate -- if you can't actually just "subcontract" this and board him somewhere which I assume you, or they, can't do. You have what seems like an insurmountable list of worries, but that will take care of a lot.

I gather you've got the idea he needs to be "with the pack" all or a lot of the time to deal with anxiety, but that's probably not accurate. What will satisfy his anxiety just as well is a regular schedule of even just a little social time. Crate him away from the door, assuming that makes sense given the layout of your apartment, and it should help with the barking at passersby. Let him have his chew or his toy in the crate and it gets around the squabbles with - "Skye", right? - that she doesn't need.

For exercise, don't overlook that mental exercise can be as good as physical for getting a dog worn out and ready to go rest again for awhile. Sounds like he needs it badly in event. In your unenviable position I would make all the time I spend with him highly structured time, doing obedience things, even very simple things over and over. Sit. Lie down. Stay. Come. I'd bet his apparently piss-tolerant people haven't been very active in this department. I'm going to say the amount of free time he should have to just wander around your apartment "doing his own thing" is zero. Crated, outside, or busy.

I have suspicions about diet in relation to his smell. If that's correct, it can take some experimentation to resolve, unfortunately. I don't think it's just his maleness, no matter how randy he is, I've never noticed that correlates with any odor. The smell of a female in heat can be pretty overpowering, but I've never noticed a "horny male" smell.

I think that's all for now because you probably don't need overwhelming doses of incoming information in addition to everything else that's on your mind.

I was really sorry to read this, especially because I fear you losing ground with your pound pup. Is there really truly no way you can have someone else care for the visiting dog? Crating will be an absolute must.

Is there anyway you can block off a room with a baby gate? When my new dog got to be too much for the old dog, we would separate them by means of a baby gate that divided the house in half. It's the same principle as your playpen idea, but it makes the dogs feel a little more free in their space. Definitely follow Wolfdog's suggestion of "Crated, outside, or busy." Which will also leave you pretty exhausted.

If you can bathe him in tomato juice, give it a shot. That deskunked my dog when he discovered a skunk in the yard. Then, when he was dry, I briskly rubbed him down with baking soda. He hated both but it was unbelievably effective.

Poor you. Poor puppies!

Jan, Wolfdoggy, Crush! I kiss you!

I would totally pay for the kennel - the best possible, but she would see that exactly the same as saying "no, we won't do it."

I'm working up to trying to explain the situation here, because there's nothing more frustrating than a seeming mystery like this, but once I've explained, it will be clear that it's really pretty mundane, basically. Also, I'm going to have to wipe it out later, which is counter to the way I think community sites should work, most of the time, but we've done it for folks here before, and only once in three years for me. This will be the second, and I'm not proud about that, but everyone I know knows my online name, and a lot of people know about this site.

Wolfdog, you are one of the people I most wanted to hear from! Don't mind giving me any more thoughts that you have, please! Nothing is not close to the door here (the entire entry area for the building runs parallel to our apartment - which sounds obtrusive, but never was noticeable or a problem until we had the guard-dog problem), so it will have to be the behavior we deal with.

Also MGL (even though you are not here, I bet you'll read this!) - I didn't want to answer every comment on the other site, but I really, really, don't dislike the other dog. I adored him as a puppy, and it was really because of him we ended up getting a dog at all! If it weren't for him, literally, we wouldn't have Sky, because it was only after I had taken care of him for about a month altogether that I thought, "hey, I really can take care of a dog, really well, day to day!"

But he's not that same puppy, and if I had had to deal with any of the same stuff that I'm facing now, it would have been oppressive and negative, and we wouldn't have ever gotten a dog - having been reassured that, yes, we were right - we cannot possibly deal with a dog!

More info in a bit...

Oh man, this sounds like it's going to be a rough few weeks. You can use the time for some behavior modification training, but it will be work.

I found myself nodding along with mgl's advice.

If this is really something that you have to do, and you don't have the option for boarding the poodle, I'd definitely go with heavy crateing - only out of the crate to pee, eat, and be played with. The pup will cry and howl and cry a lot if he's not used to the crate, but you have to be a hardass and let him cry. This will be tougher at night while you are trying to sleep. Get ear plugs. A crate will probably be a comfort to your rescue mix, a place of comfort and quiet.

When he's not in his kennel, keep him on a leash so he can't go wandering off to pee/chew/hump on things. If/when he starts acting inappropriately, make a loud noise to startle him (hand clap, screws in a tin can) and then remove him from the situation. Once he's calmed down you can bring him back, but the moment he acts up you should remove him again. This lets him know it's not okay.

You might end up surprised how well the two get along after spending a bit of time together. You might be able to take them both for walks at the same time once they are used to each other. If she doesn't put the puppy into his place, maybe one of the male dogs he challenges will. Which he needs. I would only intervene if it escalates and it looks like he's going to get hurt.

Hee, hon, yes, I'm reading. I do think you may find that, day to day, it will go better than you think it will. Two dogs always seems like it's going to be horrible and awful and much worse than one but once you get used to it it's much like kids: almost easier to have more than one.

Dogs, like people, take some time to adjust to each other. Sometimes it takes them longer than you would think. Let them argue a bit; I would be very surprised if Skye doesn't end up the alpha dog after all. Once she's in charge, she can take a hand in bad little boy dog's housetraining - and she will. That's how I've always done it - Toby trained Theo who trained Django: just make sure you're never without a dog to keep the chain going.

Oh and what wolfdog said about the smell - I've never noticed a particular smell from intact male dogs so I think it's more him. Any hound in the mix? Hounds reek. Try a different diet, mostly dry - that may help.

Also, yes, they're going to cry and seem very human in their distress and why-do-you-put-me-in-a-crate-and-not-love-me? Oh my god, is that really hard to take. But you can do it. You're a strong woman. Plus, you have nice cool alcoholic drinks. (May I suggest Pimms cups? What's your address, I'll send you some Pimms). But crating and leashing in the house (how could I have forgotten how effective leashing in the house is?) are really good at reassuring nervous dogs. They do, eventually, stop crying when put in the crate and will go there of their accord when nervous or when they want some peace and quiet. Crate training is a wonderful gift to give your dog.

Good luck.

- Keep the dogs separate as much as possible - crating, closed doors, baby gates (pre-made or improvised - I've used sheets of plywood), etc.

- Tire out the visitor. If you can't do it with walks, do it with toys.

- At least try walking the two dogs together; it may be easier than you think.

- I agree with wolfdog (and mgl!) that the smell is probably the dog's food.

- Keeping him on a leash (and having a noise maker and/or squirt bottle nearby) while he is out isolation is a good idea. Loop the leash around the chair leg that you're sitting in.

- The health thing - since you have to dog-sit, put it out of your mind as there's not really anything you can do about it. I know - easier said than done.

Any time Bro#1 visits he brings his dog. Mugsy (male) always tries to dominate (mount) Kaylee. They're both neutered. Kaylee snaps and jerks away and he gives up for a while. Later on he tries it again. Wash, rinse, repeat. It really isn't anything to worry about. Clip his claws if you think he's hurting Sky.

If there's any way possible, convince your friend that she'll be doing the dog a favour if she gets him neutered. He'll be a happier, calmer dog and, most likely, easier to train.

Good luck with it all, taz.

If your friend is going away, can you have her leave her dog at her house (where he is probably more comfortable anyway)?
Then you could go visit three times/day, feed him, walk him, clean any accidents, etc but not have him living in your house.
Better than boarding and less traumatic to all involved, I would think!

Newspaper on the bottom of the crate/playpen. Lots and lots. It absorbs lots of pee, and you just throw it out, and it's free to replace. And guestdog can chew it, eat it, etc., without serious consequence.

Cornstarch on guestdog's skin to absorb whatever the smell is. Valium for guestdog. Squirt bottle for behavior modification. Coffeecan full of nuts & bolts, also good.

I love the idea of hiring neighborhood kids to walk and tire out guestdog. Add having guestdog bathed, esp. in Greek summer.

Humping. I tend to disagree that it's no big deal. It's a dominance thing, and Sky's confidence is still shaky. I'd try very hard to keep them apart, even if 1 of them has to be in the bathroom a lot of the time.

Whatever it is that makes you have to do this, your friend owes you big time. The dogs are going to be okay. You're losing sleep. Your friend is supremely lucky to have you as a friend.

rmless, if my husband weren't starting work on a super-demanding job, I would go live at my friend's house and take care of her dog there for however long it takes! I wish. I so wish.

I'd love to hire neighborhood kids, but we have only old people, a few middle people like us, and some young people with babies. The closest thing to a neighborhood kid is the kid at the nice family corner grocery (he's about 13, cute as a button!), but he's already working at the nice family grocery!

Well, a couple more things that come to mind then. I hadn't seen mgl's long answer on Ask which I mostly agree with, down to personally being quite comfortable with a dispassionate swat on the bott' as a way of saying "no" effectively and harmlessly.

I also think that Sky is likely to be less fragile than you imagine, and I'm fairly on board with mgl in saying that (1) letting the two dogs have some unmeddled-with discussions amongst themselves is healthy for both and (2) it's very, very unlikely to end up being any sort of long-term trauma for her. The "unmeddled with" part in (1) is hard because those discussions can seem a little scary. She is very likely to pick up cues from you, though, so if you're freaked, she's more likely to be; and if you have an "oh, this is just routine, no big" attitude, likewise.

Again, like mgl, I've been around enough intact male dogs to know that they're not an intrinsic problem and they're not just all completely batshit lustballs all the time. However, all my good examples are larger breeds and I'd bet a beer that goes for mgl, too. When I have known some objectionable little sex fiends they were literally little ones. So I do know that kind of behaviour and how offensive it is, but... it's really not any specially different kind of behaviour problem just because it's sex-related (and as others have said, it's got a good chance of being dominance-related and not sexual at all) and the same kind of rule-setting and saying "no" that works for other problems probably works for discouraging the humping, too.

If you are really, really worried about him getting into a fatally violent scrap when you're out and about, see if you can find a harness that will fit him. I personally think that pushing his luck and getting a good hard lesson from another dog would do him a world of good, especially since he's still juvenile if I got the age right, but it might be a little comfort to you to know there's something you can grab to lift him the fuck out of a fracas in a big hurry.

Last little word for the time being then is that "he's doing what's natural" is very very very close like almost indistinguishable from "he's not thinking about what he's doing." Teach yourself to see this little fella's behaviours in the latter terms and it will help you to help him, I think.

I'm a cat person, so I would (since cats work this way) totally have the cat at the cats own house (ie; your friends house) and ride over there to hang out with cat/clean messes/feed them every day. Cats dig that. Familar place, peace and quiet, food when they need it, what's not to love? Dogs on the other hand, hmm. Walk three times a day right? Man that'll be all your time going back and fourth.

Sorry about your situ taz, fingers crossed for it all working out.

Hmm, I have a new idea then.
Secretly get the dog neutered, and then he will be drugged and not in the mood for lovin' or have enough energy to bother your dog for a while. And by the time the owner gets back, she'll have a fully healed, more obedient dog (she doesn't need to know why).

I'm only a little kidding about this.

Rmless, you are evil. So I'm totally hiring you when I run for president in a few years. Be there for me!

Mgl and Wolfdog, I think I'm seeing that you are right about me not being too freaked out = Sky not being too freaked out, and they might settle some things between them (even though she was so super submissive when we first got her, we were afraid she was really messed up. You would say her name, and she'd drop down and turn up her poor belly. It became a joke between my husband and I: "Have you seen my scar yet? Oh, look! Here's my scar! Can you see my scar from that angle?" She spent 90 percent of her time on her back, and had no diamonds or real estate at all to show for it, as far as we could tell. TERRIBLE joke, yes, I know. But it's funny now that she's totally not doing that any more. You must understand!

But let's say I'm a lot more relaxed on that point, and it works out between the two of them... He's still going to spray and pee all over, and I totally can't have that. I was bitter, bitter, so bitter that this one short meeting last night ended her (hard-won, on our part) fabulous two-week record of no-peeing-no-nothing-in-the-house-nowhere-not-at-all! If he sprays/pees in the house, she will pee in the house. (He never did when he was a puppy staying with us - but that's totally out the window)

Can you board Sky and stay with creepy sprayer over at her house? Has anyone suggested that yet?

Can you board Sky and stay with creepy sprayer over at her house? Has anyone suggested that yet?

oops. sorry for the double post.

So, here's the story of why we can't say no.

Many, many years ago many!, our friend was a young production assistant, trying to be a line producer, and my husband was working on the same series of documentaries, testing his skill as a sound engineer for TV/video. They worked together, she was kind of silly, but he was supportive of her, and pulling together for the whole group.

Time passes. She did well, he did well. She always thinks of him as one of the key people who helped her do well, so she always promotes him whenever possible. But it's not really necessary. He will always do well, because he is skilled and super smart, and almost insanely focused on his craft. Plus, he's one of the most likeable people in the world. Everyone loves him. I only wish I was exaggerating. Nevertheless, she's in Athens, which is the center of everything, and we're still staying in Thess/niki, which is the second city.

So it's very possible that she got him some work. (Also possible he got her work. More than possible; almost certain.) It's absolute that her glowing references, along with a whole bunch of other glowing references from tons of people in both cities, everyone he's ever worked with, plus industry awards he's won, all helped him progress in his career. But at one point, he had long-term work in Athens, and we still lived in Thessaloniki. When he first started working on that project, he stayed with her - just as she had stayed with us, sometimes, when she had something to do in Thess/nik. But the job became long-term (a series that was accepted by a studio), and he needed to stay in Athens most of the time to work on that series.

He made plans to find a small apartment to share with his boom man/assistant, and come home to Thess/nik whenever possible. But our friend insisted that he go on staying at her place: She said she's always working and almost never there; when she is there, it's nicer and feels safer to have someone around; why live flea-bag style when he could stay at a nice place? and really, it would be a favor to her, making her feel more secure, and he had been fixing things around her place, which she liked. She wanted him to stay there.

I also wanted him to stay there, because I knew he was doing grueling work and didn't want to imagine him going home to some minimally furnished, depressing, underlit place every night. So we accepted, and offered to pay her what would be the normal rent for a bedsit in a nice place - but she totally refused. She would never allow us to talk about paying her. So, the weekends he had off that he didn't come home to Thess/niki, he repaired stuff around her place, installed a projection video system, installed her internet line... was the excellent handyman around the house, for all things. Which kind of made me jealous, because he's always been a little slow about being the handyman around his own house.

BUT, at any rate, he stayed there for the entire period of the taping of the TV series, which was about eight or nine months. The fact that he stayed there without paying rent definitely helped us move to Athens. Half the time, she wasn't there. And of the time she was there, he was in Thessaloniki whenever he could swing it at all (basically it took a three-day weekend kind of thing for that to make sense), and also was out socially constantly, so they would see each other only every now and then, even though they lived in the same house. He bought groceries constantly (though they were things he was most likely to be eating - steaks, sausages, eggs, salads, potatoes, coffee, milk, pasta, bread, etc.) But sometimes she would cook nicer things for the two of them, or several people coming by.

Eventually, we moved here, so obviously this stopped. But he found our apartment because a friend of a friend of hers mentioned it, so if it weren't for her, we wouldn't have found this place. And in her worst moments, she likes to say that he wouldn't have been able to stay in Athens (totally not true!), wouldn't have succeeded as much as he did (wrong. so utterly wrong. they are *dying* for talent and expertise here, and don't stop knocking at his door), and wouldn't have found this great apartment if not for her (true).

In her worst moments, she takes responsibility for all his success, which I won't even go into further. Except to say that I think it was the other way around in the early years when she came off as totally goofy and silly, and V. was telling people, "no, no, I worked with her - she's good. Really!" His work stands on its own. The industry awards don't hurt, either. did I mention the industry awards?

At any rate, even though she's been a good friend, she's calling in her chips in a really nasty style. She doesn't trust anyone else... and anyone else she would trust at all, can't handle him. But she's going through a really personally traumatic time, and she's losing it. And she won't listen to a word I say... anything that isn't "yes, we'll do it" is the same as "I spit on you and your silly ideas of friendship!" And, really - she's going through a super bad time, and I would love to just take care of the dog so she doesn't have to worry about it, without saying why it's not a great idea.

But I have said why it's not a great idea, and she didn't listen to a word. She just cried. There is not a choice here.

oh, sweetie. *hugs* she seems like she's taking her insecurity out on you and your husband!

I say give it a week, and then if it isn't working out, doggie goes to boarding facility.

I am such a huge fan of Sky, I want the very best for her!

Massively courageous of you to share all this.. many thanks!

Taz, you are a sweet sweet wonderful woman but you could have said no.

But I understand why you didn't.

I do highly suggest you think about what you have written here and realize that this problem could repeat itself in future and you do have to realize that it is not unkind on your part to say no.

(I have a dear friend whose "no" is broken and who gets taken advantage of quite a bit as a consequence...I just hate seeing it happen to folks I care about. That would include you.)

(((taz)))

You have a lot of suggestions which I'm sure you are thinking about.

Another factor to remember though is that both dogs may be more sedate in the heat when you are to have your doggie visitor. It's a little hope though.

Poor Sky. Poor puppy. Poor you.

It's not very cool of this friend to say those things, but I can certainly understand your feelings of obligation.

Ohh taz...I can see what a delicate situation this is.

taz, I feel I have a lot I want to say about the situation you're in with this person, and it's very hard not to say it, especially after having read through this thread.

My advice is to kennel the dog as soon as he starts causing problems. When the dog's owner either checks-in or comes back from out of town, say something matter-of-fact, like "your dog and my dog weren't getting along, and I can't put my dog at risk. We therefore had to put your dog in a kennel, which we're paying for, because we said we'd care for him."

If drama ensues, stick to the bottom-line -- "My first obligation is to my own dog, and I have provided sufficient, alternative care, at my own expense, for your dog."

So... I've been thinking about it, and with a little sleep (which followed a little too much to drink - in vino veritas, or just a hell of a headache), I've decided that of whatever negative things that might develop, principal among them would be me feeling all tragic and worried, because above all, the dogs have no choice at all but to take their cues from me. How I act will be the catalyst for a lot of behavior, negative or positive. The feeling of being powerless about what is to come seems to have inundated my entire point of view on the problem, but the truth is that except for the initial decision, every choice after that is mine to make.

Nothing will make both dogs more nervous and upset than feeling that there's no one in charge, nobody steering the boat, the engineer is asleep at the controls, and we're all going to die - aiiiiiiiiiii! For them, even an evil pilot would be preferable to no pilot, and I'll never be an evil pilot... so even if I don't make the absolutely perfect right move every time in whatever is to come, any mistake will be more forgivable (and potentially useful, if I learn something from it) than adopting a frightened, pessimistic attitude. My own silly sense of hysteria is by far more threatening to my dog's health and wellbeing (and the other dog's state of mind and relative comfort) than any complication that arises between the two of them.

I can make sure my dog remains reassured as long as I am assured. I'm not helpless or stupid or weak, and I can assert control and guide behavior, and nothing has to happen unless I let it happen. I've been focusing too much on every possible problem instead of focusing on the key element that will crush and pulverize any difficulty - my godlike* will, brilliance and agency. It will be fine if I insist that it be fine.

I can do that.

* From their point of view, I'm a titan astride the globe, with lasers for eyes and lightning issuing from my fingertips. What's not to love?

taz, everything you just said is what I was going to say, but I couldn't figure out a way to say it without coming across as lecture-y, besides it's always 100% better when you come to those sorts of realizations for yourself, anyway, because following a command to "Be in control!" is kinda contradictory, ya know?, and all of this is to say: You've managed to keep all of us in line, and happy, with your godlike will, agency, and brilliance, so I have no doubt you can handle a couple of dogs who, even with the peeing, are probably better behaved than the average internet user. :-)

*nods vigorously at what occhiblu said*

(((taz)))

*pets taz and sky*