Yay Opera!

Guys, what is your opinion of websites that tell you to download Firefox? I am thinking something very discreet in the footer, like "If this website is displaying incorrectly, it may be that you do not have a properly working browser installed."

don't do that, you'll lose funding ducats!

you build a separate layout for ie6 etc and then have the browser check, and load separate css for ie6 when required. pita, i know. this happens all the time with my websites.

wait, it would probably be ok in the footer. Most folk won't look there tho :(

I agree that a short tasteful line, in the footer, about FF would be okay but, if the page really looks crap in IE, that might be all the user really pays attention to. In the end, you may just want to browser detect as suggested becasue most users and clients are cluless, IMHO, and your reputation is too important not to cow-tow, to some degree.

I feel your pain Oh Bomb of Meat. Have a short look at CSS Reset and see if it helps.

Yeah, I definitely feel your pain too. I cried tears of blood over this for the year or so I was a freelance web programmer, and I am SO relieved not to worry about this stuff any more (of course, I have a host of new worries, which aren't necessarily less worrisome).

Do check out that CSS Reset page -- I wish I'd had this when I was fighting the good fight. I eventually came up with my own makeshift attempt at the same thing, but this looks way more comprehensive.

My suggestion, as awful as it sounds -- preview EVERY SINGLE CHANGE YOU MAKE in IE before assuming it's going to work out. Do this WITHOUT FAIL. Really, just keep IE open, and every time you tweak something, preview it there first. Then check it in firefox. It will be super-tedious, but it may preserve a little bit more of your sanity.

Also, do take advantage of the excellent FF web development add-ins like firebug and the Web Developer Toolbar.

Welcome to My World.

I loathe IE and don't use it on my personal system (well, since MS doesn't make it for the Mac anymore that's a reason too). At the office I find myself using IE because of the intranet MS Sharepoint sites are "optimized" with a load of active X shit which so you can't use Firefox. And Outlook Web Access won't let you download a fucking attachment unless you use IE. And my office IT department is so in love with IE that the remedy trouble ticket system won't even open unless you're using IE.

So not only does MS fuck up IE to not comply with standards, it also tweaks it web services so they will only work with that piece of fuck-piss-shit IE.

I really wish Microsoft would buy Yahoo (sell off Flickr because I like that) and then die in a fire started by Google.

If it don't work in Opera because of active X shit I don't use the site.

I have sympathy for ie. There was some dodgy decisions made and microsoft are suffering because of them. Unfortunately, they're stuck in bad standards land now and moves towards better CSS compliance are hampered by a historic code base. I dread the arrival of ie8. Web designers everywhere are going to have a hell of a time keeping websites looking nice when it arrives.

I don't really understand the IE hate thing, especially from users. Is this a Ford vs Chevy (Honda vs Nissan) kind of thing? It's just a browser. The browser is the access point to the content, regardless of the browser you use. Some browsers don't work with some content - so use a different browser for that content. It's just not a big deal. It just means I keep two browsers open or at least keep their little icons handy so I can select the weapon of choice for the content at hand. About 60% of the time, I'm a FF user, which is simple expedience (and an extension called "adblock" weights the decision in many cases).

Of course, it WOULD be a big deal if browsers were cars, because I simply couldn't deal with having to have a Ford for one road, and a Chevy for another, and God forbid that some roads are closed for Macs but not for Windows PCs. Which is the reason I have both Macs and PCs hanging around here. But I digress...

disclaimer, I am trying to make a website. Imagine if every time you laid out a nice new stretch of asphalt you discovered that it was not compatible with the Fords.

EAT MY SCROTUM INTERNET EXPLORER!!1111!

Actually, for my simple site I think I have finally got something that works with both, so not quite so manic in my hatred at the moment...