all of the people, and all of the appliances,

*hugs microwave*

Her idea about appliances is similar to ideas I've studied about how computers and the internet "fit" into our lives. By using tools, we begin to think of ourselves as more than just "Human with hammer", but as "Human/hammer cyborg" (and then, of course, everything begins to look like a nail).

Also, Reviving Ophelia was an amazing book that basically saved by teenage years. So, yeah.

OMG, her work on Relational Aggression got me through my daughter's early adolescence, at least my ability to make sense of it all. It also got me in some hot water, talking to other parents, in those terms.

all of the people, and all of the appliances,

*hugs microwave*

From my cold, dead hands, will they finally take my rice maker!

I thought rice grew, dude. Now there's a machine that makes it? What a time to be alive....

The relationship to the various "screens" in the house is an interesting subject. So much of kids' social lives take place via the Internet, and I suppose a kid COULD have a like, totally off the net, but it seems like it's a pretty seamless deal.

I also think it's been going on for a long time. I remember that, as a kid, I would feel like a loser because my parents would not let me watch Batman, or some such thing, on TV, so I would not be able to debrief it the next day at school, thereby further isolating me from the group.

I don't have any answers, other than to work to get as much face time as possible. But yesterday, I had a shitty day, and then came home and talked to my wife for awhile (we also have lunch together almost every day) and after dinner (which I made) all I wanted to do was to take the laptop out to the yard and check email and MeCha. . .and my wife came out and was trying to talk to me but I was not receptive, which frustrated her. At the time I was more into the appliance than her, but I had also talked to her at length, at various times during the day, and wanted some "alone" time (me and a few million of the other people on the net).

It's hard to navigate the waters of contemporary life.

At the time I was more into the appliance than her, but I had also talked to her at length, at various times during the day, and wanted some "alone" time (me and a few million of the other people on the net).

Yeah, I totally agree -- how does one find that balance?

One thing she kind of glossed over but might fit in, is she was comparing her grandmother's family to contemporary families, and talked about how they would spend each night working while one family member entertained them by reading aloud or playing an instrument. I think that provides a kind of "alone, but together" feeling, which may be a way to balance some of that. I think, to some extent, that maybe the emphasis on "quality time" where you have to be constantly interacting for it to "count" has taken away that option, and turned interaction into an all-or-nothing thing.

and my wife came out and was trying to talk to me but I was not receptive, which frustrated her.

This is frustrating for MuddDude, too. He really uses the internet only as a tool - he checks his fantasy baseball league that he's in with his "RL" friends, checks CNN.com and ESPN.com, uses it for maps, recipes, email, and Wikipedia. I was very reticent, for a long time, to open up to him about my online relationships, but when we moved in together it became rather obvious that I see the internet as a method of human interaction, rather than as just an on-demand information source. I try to limit my at-home use to when he's watching a sports game or whatever, but I can tell that it bugs him sometimes, or that he gets bored and wants me to be bored with him, I guess.

On the other hand, we have the same sorts of problems when it comes to my other hobbies: reading and knitting. So the internet is really just a facilitator for my interests, rather than the cause of our tension.

fantasy baseball league that he's in with his "RL" friends

what a freaky sentence.

I was listening to an NPR segment about violence in video games. One of the experts said something that surprised me a little. Basically he said that a teen boy can be viewed as a little odd by other teens if they aren't interested in video games. Video games are a form of bonding and "most every teen boy plays video games." I didn't disagree, but I have this little dream for my kids not to be slaves to video games. I guess there can be a balance.

Husband and I are in love with our computers. I have online friends (Metachat). He has his news, sports, technology sites, etc. We probably use them more than the average bear. Or, maybe not. I don't know. I think we have plenty of time without the computer. I can say with confidence that if our technology was taken away we would all get along and love, love, love. We would probably replace it with another distraction though.

I have a tendency to get peeved when I am working on other things, "productive, worthwhile things", and husband is "wasting time on the computer". I seem to despise the bad habits we share.

Wow, that sounds great.

The relationships with appliances are indeed important. AS a therapist, I bet by asking about them she gets a very real sense of where the gaps are in the rest of the family dynamic, since so often the appliances serve as 'filler,' a de-stressing mechanism, or an experience of a world in which you are in full control of all choices. Of course they have positive uses, too.

My parents staunchly refused the idea of my brother and I having our own TVs in our own rooms, or our own phones. They saw this as the first step down a path of a negative sort of 'opting out' or separation from the family. It would be harder to take that kind of line today, when kids have their own computers and phones as a matter of course. But looking back, I really endorse their principles. It was fine to read alone, do art alone, write letters and things like that in your room, but for accessing mass media and telecommunications, you were in a family context.

alone, but together" feeling

The example of her grandmother's time makes me think of a few things. Here at my museum we talk quite a bit about the family parlor and the role it played in the life of a household (which often included family members of 3 or 4 generations, hired help, slaves when slavery was legal, neices and nephews and adopted children). In wintertime in climates like this one, the family usually shut off the larger, more formal rooms in the house and spent just about every single evening gathered in one room to conserve firewood and lighting. It was very common for people to read or play music, for small pairs and threes to quietly play games while others read and wrote or worked on textiles. Thrown together every evening of the week, for months, with your brothers, sisters, parents, children, all in one stuffy room, the culture developed to make sure that people could find privacy within company. And they were, as a result, more intimately involved with one another throughout their lives than we are today, with the separate rooms that central air and consistent temperatures allow us.

It also reminds me of working on boats - I've spent time on several large schooners and one square-rigger, which have big crews and no privacy. There is a funny thing that happens when you're in close quarters like that. People have a way of finding spaces and defining them as private for the time they need to use them. Someone curled up under the bow with a book or notepad is clearly not to be bothered. Two people lying on top of a deckhouse, chatting quietly, should be left alone. It's odd how, when work isn't taking place, people on boats master the art of being alone and limiting interaction even with a lot of other people around.

Alone-together time is hugely important to me, but it's a bit of a cultural conflict in my relationship. One of my favorite things is to read in company - to page through the newspaper or a magazine or book while sitting at a restaurant or at the kitchen table, hearing the clock tick, feeling at peace, not having to be involved in a give-and-take every minute. This is probably a reflection of the fact that I'm just a little bit of an introvert - I love people and activity, but I give so much energy to interaction that it feels demanding and then I need quiet and low-demand time in order to recharge. Other people, though, rebuild their energy by talking to others, and are not comfortable with silence unless they're alone - and maybe not even then.

When I use the computer, I really don't like being interrupted - it's like reading. It seems to demand more focus.

All this gets away from the talk of family, but alone-together is just something interesting to think about.

I like thinking about how families were in the past, it's very interesting.

As a (foster) parent with teenagers, sometimes I get a bit eye-rolly with commentary re how- things- are- today- versus- X- years- ago. Yes, that's how things are today. I have a sort of, "That was then, this is now," kind of response. I'm sure it's a sign of immaturity or some similar weakness.

alone-together is just something interesting to think about.

This is exactly why my partner and I get along. I'd say 95% of the time at home, we're not doing stuff together, but we're in more or less the same room. (He's the 5th of 6 kids, so that probably helps.) We have some interaction even though we're both doing our own thing.

On the flipside, this is why being around my mom is fairly exhausting to me. She lives alone, so anytime I (or we) are with her (which is weekly, or more) she can talk for hours at a stretch without so much as stopping for breath. At the end of an evening like that, my brain is just mush. I love my mom and get along with her really well, but I could not live like that all the time.

Yes, that's how things are today. I have a sort of, "That was then, this is now," kind of response.

I actually very much appreciated that Pipher went out of her way to point out that while things were in some ways better for families in the 30s, it was (obviously!) not a perfect time!

For me, though, where it gets fascinating--and often scary--with the "This is how we are now" bit, is that we're changing our brains; the amount of time young kids are spending on instant-gratification video games is literally rewiring their brains. And I think this is a process that's been going on for a while, with ever-increasingly interactive electronic media, and as a therapist, it turns into an interesting question of, So how do you step in and help families (or individuals) who are in distress, when this process is occurring? Because it complicates things. The kind of "standard mental health safety net" of community, friends, family, time outdoors, and meaningful work has started to break down, and in many cases it's so broken that it's a Herculean effort to reconstruct it for individuals or individual families.

Which, I guess, is why I liked the "tribal wisdom" idea. It moves away from the idea that we're all responsible for each other, and toward the idea that we're all really missing out if we're not interacting with each other. That we're shunning each other's wisdom and experience in favor of quick fixes and individual band-aids.

That got a little more stream-of-conscious than I meant. :-)

all of the people, and all of the appliances,

Does a 'rabbit' count as an appliance?

Bunny toaster.

She sounds lovely, but I have a hard time imagining her suggestions working for the foster teens that I deal with. Maybe if you started with younger children, I don't know.

we're all really missing out if we're not interacting with each other.

Absolutely.

And I also like the "tribal wisdom" idea because I've seen it work so well. Kids who find communities of support and encouragement outside their families seem to do well - whether that means they have a relatinship with a grandparent or aunt or cousin, or have the chance to go to camp (an incredible experience of intentional community caring for one another, males and females alike), or are part of a church community. Having adults other than parents bond with children as they grow seems incredibly helpful. So often, kids flower in places like camp, frequently to the parent's surprise.

BoPo, I can totally relate to the partner vs. mom dynamic. That's my experience to. Can I get ten dollars on pump 2?

essexjan, one rabbit counts as an appliance, and you must list it on your family household inventory form. Anything else in there with the rabbit, just leave off the list unless you want your inventory heavily scrutinized.

I'm not saying it's wrong, essexjan, I'm saying I'd lie. This is why I don't do well with therapy, perhaps.

Rainbaby, are you letting your rabbit raise your children. For shame! :-)

and you must list it on your family household inventory form

It COULD be considered a family member. . .which puts it in a whole other context. . .

If I had children, it would be for shame, yes. But I don't.

Does this mean I can claim my computer, cell phone, and iPod as dependents?

Yes. Yes it does.

How about my bottle opener?

WOO HOO, this will surely positively affect my tax refund.

Reviving Ophelia is a great, great book.

Less relevantly: so the tool-geek consensus seems to be that the Leatherman Skeletool has the best multitool bottle opener ever. This might be enough to make me buy one.

Oh, yeah? My bottle opener is from the Flamingo Hotel & casino is Las Vegas, Nevada. So there.

I have 3 bottle openers, one each from my 3 waitressing jobs. Sentimental value.

I have a bottle opener from the fabled Madonna Inn.

defined "family" as "all of the people, and all of the appliances, in a household."

The Church of Appliantology, now more than ever.