The (numerous) times when my mother corrected my manners in front of others are some of my worst, most mortifying childhood memories. I remember a couple of specific instances. In second grade, when she picked me up from a birthday party, and I neglected to tell the kid and her mom that I'd had a nice time. My mother made me stand there until I said it. (And when I said it, I did so in the most insolent way possible, even though I *did* have a good time, so it just made both of us look bad.) I also know that I was a really good kid, that other parents liked having me around, and that they knew I was polite even if I forgot to spout the right nicety at the right time. So, in this, I think my mom was misdirected.

There are different issues here. 1) You want the neighbor dad to think well of your kid, so you want your kid to say the right thing. 2) You want your kid to know what's socially appropriate.

But hey, we all miss social cues sometimes. It's good to educate. But nagging? I'd say it can have the opposite effect of what's intended.

Yes.
No.
I don't know.
Never.

My mother nagged some manners in to me, and I am nagging manners into MuddDude. So yeah.

Hmm. Now it sounds like I've implied that you're a nag. I didn't mean that.

I think what I meant to say is that some kids are more inside their own heads than other kids. They might not say the right thing at the right time, but that doesn't mean they have ill intent or are being rude. Maybe the lesson to get across isn't that "X needs to be said in Y situation, or else you're being impolite," but "You know, we need to take other people's feelings into account. You might have hurt Johnny's feelings by not saying goodbye him. Is that something you can pay attention to in the future?"

That would have worked better for me -- as a sensitive, introverted, distracted kid -- than "You didn't say thank you/goodbye/XYZ and now other people think you're a brat and that I'm a bad mother!" (Which was usually the subtext of the corrections, with my mom.)

On preview-almost-posting: All that said, I have a serious sense of manners now, and I get aggravated with people who don't. So the lessons are good.

I think maybe I just have baggage.

So I'll shut up now.

There are different issues here. 1) You want the neighbor dad to think well of your kid, so you want your kid to say the right thing

Yes. This is what mostly rules me and causes anxiety. In some cases I think I'm more concerned that people will think of us as uncivilized than my kid being polite.

I told myself I would never nag or give my kid McDonald's french fries. Those promises didn't last long. :-)

Are you saying it cheerfully, as in Chris, remember to [do polite thing], or bitchily, as in Hey, Dorkface, you forgot to [do polite thing] again, cause you're a complete loser?

I taught my son manners, and tried hard to use manners with him. Many people tell me he has nice manners, so apparently that's not one of the things he'll be discussing w/ his therapist. I do hear parents who correct their children often, but seldom say Please, Thank you, or be polite w/ the kids. Ick. No lectures in front of others, but gentle reminders shouldn't be too traumatic.

Hmm. Now it sounds like I've implied that you're a nag. I didn't mean that.

Oh, I know you didn't, mudpuppie. I didn't take it that way.

The older kid is shy and very calm. He hardly looks new people in the eye. He is quiet and has a soft voice. Like you mentioned, mudpuppie, I don't think there is any ill-intent. Occasionally I worry (mildly) that he comes off as rude, but that is my problem to deal with.

theora, cheerful. Will, Johnny is going inside, say goodbye! Say goodbye. Will, say goodbye! Ha. That's pretty bad. The dad was probably like, woman, let the kid play with his sprinkler. Will was probably like, Jesus, mom I was going to say goodbye. Get off my back. jk.

Age of kid matters with this, btw.

Over thinking.

Let it go.

If it bothers you, it's probably time to cut back.


My mom still does it to me. It's how I know she loves me.

Are you saying it cheerfully, as in Chris, remember to [do polite thing], or bitchily, as in Hey, Dorkface, you forgot to [do polite thing] again, cause you're a complete loser?
Yeah, I always cringe when I see parents yelling at their kids to be polite, stop yelling etc. Do as I say, not as I do, etc.

I think kids have their own rules for communication. You might want to remind of his manners when dealing with adults, who share your expectations, but let him deal with his friends his way (preserving his independence without relieving him of the expectation of civilized behavior around you).

My mom was an ardent supporter of No Swearing Ever, my friends weren't. The lesson I eventually learned was that you are best served by speaking to people in their own language comfort zone. I can swear like a sailor but not when I'm greeting my the pastor of my Mom's church.

I think kids have their own rules for communication. You might want to remind of his manners when dealing with adults, who share your expectations, but let him deal with his friends his way (preserving his independence without relieving him of the expectation of civilized behavior around you).

Brilliant. This sounds right, d_n.

Today I got a book order from Amazon. Parenting Without Fear was one of titles. I ordered it to hopefully stop this madness of worrying about crazy shit. My husband helps tremendously with reminding me of what is really important, but I still need all the help I can get. I think the school-aged years, and the fact that we are interacting with more and more people, have sent me into crazy lunatic mode. My own mother would have never worried about this kind of stuff. If she knew I was, she would tell me to get a grip.

Thanks so much everybody.

I think it's perfectly fine. It shows what you consider good manners and good social interaction. I'm not sure that saying nothing at all when kids are off in their own world and decide not to observe the social niceties is a good thing. Demonstrating what 'civilized' people do in social interactions is a good way to prepare them for, you know, the entire rest of life. I wouldn't say you have to demand ridiculously courtly behavior, or that he drop everything and make a big show of it, but absolutely - from the time kids can speak, I think it's one of the responsibilities of raising them to teach them to say 'please' and 'thank you' and 'hello' and 'goodbye' and 'would you mind if' and 'excuse me' and know when to use them and why. It makes this world more courteous and civil, and I wish more people had these responses deeply ingrained.

When I was teaching, some of the more isolated kids were also ones who didn't have any of these little 'graces' at the ready. Other kids do notice that - at least by middle school. Kids that haven't learned these things run into trouble in high school because they don't have a 'polite' personality to switch on, and they don't understand why their kid behaviors are causing them problems when applying for jobs, getting teachers' help, asking people out, etc.

My brother spent a lot of time as a teenager very withdrawn and grumpy - at least with his family. The amazing thing was watching him interact with total strangers. People were always saying to my mom "I ran into your sont he other day -- he is so helpful and polite!" and she would be all "My son?"

As long as you're as understanding and calm as you usually are, there's no reason to feel bad about teaching your son good manners.

Thank you so much, Miko. I won't feel bad about it.

I feel bad about asking Metachat so many parenting questions. I try hard to limit them. Y'all help me so much and I really appreciate it.

People were always saying to my mom "I ran into your sont he other day -- he is so helpful and polite!" and she would be all "My son?"
I'm pretty certain that this happens to all parents in one form or another. Doesn't it? Please say yes.

Hey, I thought I'd chime in with the idea that something like this shouldn't be severe at all. Not suggesting you were of course. Jen and I have had GREAT success in modeling polite behavior and then watching it show up back from the girls. The nicest thing about this is that they are learning genuine appreciation, etc. In fact, one time someone asked Sophie, in one of her infrequent lapses in "decent behavior" what the magic word was. She told them it was abracadabra. I was pretty proud.

We've never explicitly taught them that you must say X when Y happens. We've taught them appreciation, genuine thanks for others' efforts, and that people deserve your attention. Nine times out of ten, that holds them in good stead. Certainly, applying the what-others-seem-to-think-of-them litmus test, our girls are welcomed with open arms in any of the random homes that we dump them in whilst we go on our three day benders.

I am sure you are doing it well Lori. That's pretty obvious.

our girls are welcomed with open arms in any of the random homes that we dump them in whilst we go on our three day benders.

I lol'd.

We've never explicitly taught them that you must say X when Y happens. We've taught them appreciation, genuine thanks for others' efforts, and that people deserve your attention. Nine times out of ten, that holds them in good stead.

Yes. I think we do this, hopefully. Most often though it is pep talks before we arrive someplace or before people are coming over. "What do you do when someone says hello?" "What do you do when someone gives you a gift?" Sometimes we'll pretend and role-play. Sometimes it's, "Don't even think about being rude in this restaurant or I will kill you." :-)

Yeah, see? I am pretty sure you are on the right track with your offspring. Also, it's really surprising how much they do pick up. The young lads across the street from us sound just like their mom when they shit-talk each other. Of course, they've heard her shit-talk their dad since birth, so...clearly that's the way to go.

I don't know, Lori. I have a goal with my daughter at least. It's this: she may have a disability. She may never go to college. She may never have a Career with a capital 'C', but damn it, she will be polite. So we remind her if necessary to say please and thank you and many times it just takes a raised eyebrow. Other times I refuse to acknowledge her request when it comes without a please. When she remembers on her own she gets a huge attagirl, which makes her (and me) very happy. She's getting better at saying excuse me when she burps and has started correcting her brother too (her infant brother signed "milk" and she said, "No Stuart, I want mik peass").

I feel bad about asking Metachat so many parenting questions.

LoriFLA: as a childless person, I find other people's parenting discussions interesting and instructive!

I usually click through to read them even if I don't contribute anything (which is usually the case). It gives me an interior view of some of the challenges of parenting, an aspect I don't see as often or as up-close as the unalloyed joys of parenting. It's fascinating to me.