Except in the "Weird illogical-but-deeply-sincere rantings" department, I guess. That's pretty San Francisco.

Good lord, I can't believe a pro-Tibetan protester was hassling people doing Tai Chi! I mean, I understand the contention, but to hassle someone for doing Tai Chi is like insisting people call them "Freedom Fries".

"I know it sounds racist" is always a great way to start a sentence.
The ears just perk right up - "hey everyone, listen up, Kevin's about to say something racist sounding."

"hey everyone, listen up, Kevin's about to say something racist sounding."

"Like, 'Maybe the Chinese tourists who are visiting this city in order to escort their Chinese-owned property around the world and back to China should.... go back to China! Just like they're intending to do!'"

Sigh.

Also, he is just totally unschooled in proper San Francisco fightin' words. You yell "Fascists!", not "Communists!" Yelling at people here for being Communists is like walking down Wall Street yelling "Capitalists!" and expecting it to start a fight.

I'm really excited to see if any athletes pull medal ceremony shenanigans.

This whole thing is a mess. The Chinese (government) accusing the Dalai Lama for inciting violence, the supposed peaceful Tibetan supporters spouting off ignorant messages and more. It's crazy.

Obviously, not everybody is behaving this way, but I think it's going to get uglier. Hopefully not.

Also, he is just totally unschooled in proper San Francisco fightin' words.

I thought that THE fighting word in San Francisco was "Frisco."

THAT's how you get a beat-down in the Bay Area.

"Oh, I LOVE Frisco."

"There are so many things to see and do here in Frisco."

the supposed peaceful Tibetan supporters spouting off ignorant messages

The problem is that there are a bunch of different groups using this as an excuse to protest China - Cold War junkies who still consider China to be part of the Great Red Evil (I'm betting that this was the motivation behind 'go back to China'), people who want to target human rights violations in China, people who support a free Tibet, people who want to end the genocide in Darfur, etc. etc. Heck, I'm surprised I haven't heard much from the Falung Gong folks yet. It's hard to stay "on message" when there is no message.

Damn dirty sandal-wearing, free market-hugging hippies!

I agree muddgirl.

Also, my sentence should have read: supposed peaceful protestors that are supporters of Tibetan freedom. ;-)

On a related note, why do I always seem to be on a writing deadline on these days when it's all sirens, all the time? Kee-rist.

As a result of these protests I learned that the Olympic Relay tradition was started by the Hitler Regime.

The problem is that there are a bunch of different groups using this as an excuse to protest China

The problem is that just because somebody's all about a free Tibet, it doesn't mean they're smart.

Oddly though, this tree-hugging latte town also birthed Metallica and the Hell's Angels.

Didn't El Cerrito birth Metallica? Hmm. Wikipedia says Los Angeles, but I don't think that's right.

I thought the Hell's Angels started in Santa Barbara?

Dammit, I mean San Bernadino. Same place as McDonalds. (because I learned the Hells Angels fact reading Fast Food Nation)

Wiki on El Cerrito, which apparently claims both Metallica and Creedence.

El Cerrito is just across the bay from SF, but has a distinctly different vibe.

El Cerrito also birthed Creedence, but that's still the Bay Area, right (never been to California, never intend to, it's be like matter meeting anti-matter)? The Metallica story goes like this: Hetfields from the LA area, Ulrich's from Europe, but Burton and Hamett were from the Bay Area and they moved there because they hated the LA glam scene and to get Burton in the band.

Also, although the best known Angel's chapter is in Oakland, the first two were in San Franciso and San Bernardino. Back when theyw ere strictly a Californian phenomenon, they didn't wear state names on their bottom rockers like now, it said 'Frisco,' and 'Berdoo,' respectively.

And here I am on flickr. I felt a sunburn coming on so I had my hood up. My other sign was was about Tibet and Darfur. The torch never came by but it was a beautiful day.

What the hell do you have against Madison Square Garden, dude?

Heh- I didn't know they'd added the states to their jackets. I'm oblivious obviously. When I was a kid they were scary tweakers. Now they're old guys with expensive rides. I guess the tweakers eliminated themselves.

I've lived in a couple towns with big chapters and Pips' brother was a lawyer for them back in the '70's. They may be old, but i still wouldn't dream of messing with them.

Oh! It took me a while to get you Madison Square Garden comment.

So, has this article been edited? There's no "I know it sounds racist" part that I can see...

pompomtom, it looks like the article may has been edited and updated from this morning.

I've lived in a couple towns with big chapters and Pips' brother was a lawyer for them back in the '70's. They may be old, but i still wouldn't dream of messing with them.

Eh... they have too much money now. They're part of the establishment, like it or not. At least around Northern California they seem to be. This means they have too much to lose, which in turn means I'm not afraid of them anymore.

The people who DO scare me are the frat boy type rich people. They KNOW the system's on their side. Another reason to live in the east bay flats, where their influence is less.

I think you'd like California. It'd be a strange and exotic place filled with quaint natives. Or something.

I've lived in California since I was 5-and-a-half years old, and I still enjoy pointing and laughing at the quiant natives. When called on it, I can always say "I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, down the street from Dennis Kucinich. Wanna make something of it?" But more often I try to blend in with the SLO crowd by wearing ironic t-shirts I bought from webcomic sites.

Anyway, have you SEEN the route of the Olympic Torch? Jumping from Paris to San Francisco (why is that the ONLY USA city to get visited?) to Buenos Aires to Dar Es Salaam? That's not a torch RUN, it's a torch HOP.

s_r: as a Northeasterner, my vision of California is basically that of tanned blond half naked people who eat wheat germ and put raw egg on pizza and where the ghetto has palm trees.

They're part of the establishment, like it or not. At least around Northern California they seem to be. This means they have too much to lose, which in turn means I'm not afraid of them anymore.

Like the Mafia.

jon, I'm slightly surprised you don't recall that Florida ghettos have palm trees too.

So, has this article been edited? There's no "I know it sounds racist" part that I can see...

Yeah, sorry, I realized a little after posting this that posting a constantly-updated article, and quoting a bit of it that was likely to get deleted, was probably a bit silly.

But the quoted bit was pretty much the entirety of it. There was something about the protesters taunting the guy, his ripping a Chinese flag off someone's backpack, and then someone grabbing his throat. Then it was the "I'm not a racist" bit.

... my vision of California is basically that of tanned blond half naked people

Which is why heavy sweatshirts and jackets emblazoned with "SF" are the cornerstone of this town's economy.

A new torch was unloaded from one of the cars and lit

Cheaters!

At one point, a knot of pro-Tibet demonstrators yelled, "Shame on China! How dare you represent China!" In return, a group of torch supporters yelled back: "They represent the U.S.!"

Wha??? When did this happen!

"Gavin Newsom runs San Francisco the way the premier of China runs his country - secrecy, lies, misinformation, lack of transparency and manipulating the populace," Peskin said.

Whoah, let's not jump the shark, shall we?

"We felt it was in everyone's best interest that we augment the route," Newsom said. "I believe people were afforded the right to protest and support the torch. You saw that in the streets. They were not denied the ability to protest."

The whole idea of protesting something is to stand up to it and defy its existence. Fat chance of that happening if the people who were waiting to do that couldn't even get a glimpse of what they wanted to rail against.


"The city of San Francisco, from a global perspective, will be applauded," he said.

And you, sir, are a tool.

Anyone else find it rather strange that when they "picked" China to host the olympics, it was "maybe", yet now it's on? WTF was that "maybe" about?

Weird. The quote in your post seems to have been removed from the article you linked. I did a Google search for the quote and found a link to seattlepi, but it's not in that article either.

At one point, a knot of pro-Tibet demonstrators yelled, "Shame on China! How dare you represent China!" In return, a group of torch supporters yelled back: "They represent the U.S.!"

I'm guessing, though it's only a guess, that the idea was more that the torch-runners represent the US? That's part of what bugs me about all the protest -- I sympathize with protesting Chinese civil rights abuses, but the people running with the torch are not Chinese citizens, they're locals; in SF, it included a bunch of high school students and a women with ALS and a bunch of others who seemed thrilled to get the opportunity to represent SF in this way. Harassing *them* seems a bit off, I think.

I took the bus across the city yesterday afternoon, and I was worried I was going to get caught in the protests, so I took a route I don't normally take -- and then realized halfway through the ride that it would take me right past the Chinese embassy. I braced for huge delays, but... there was not a single person protesting at the embassy. It just feels to me like *that* is where the outrage should be directed, not at the people carrying the torch, which is supposed to be a symbol of unity anyway.

(Ironically, had the protesters actually been at the embassy, they would have been much nearer the actual torch route.)

Okay, anti-asian racists' remarks are hardly worth repeating.

A more interesting tension is that between Chinese-American pride in their ancestral home's hosting the Olympics and those seeking to bring conscience to China's domestic and foreign policy.

It's a shame that there needs to be a clash between people who are proud to be Chinese and people who want China to reform its practices. A lot of people I know are in both camps. My partner is Chinese. I would love nothing better than to go out and lend my pride to China's effort and support the Chinese community in SF.

But the question of China's "coming out" on the world stage (exemplified by the Olympics) is fraught with serious concerns. This is a country that's lost 40-50 million people in the last fifty or so years due to its internal policy iterations. China is a rising nation with impressive industrial and economic KPIs but holy frikking shit it's also a goddamned basket case.

Do you know you need a visa to move from one city to another in China? China's much-renowned economic development is systematically closed to farmers in rural communities (with tactics like the visa thing, above). All the farmers would love to move to the urban centers and seek improvement, but they're being controlled regionally and personally by the government to keep cheap food flowing to the industrial centers. The star-crossed souls who are born farmers in China are destined to carry the industrial and forthcoming information revolutions in their country on their backs. I understand China's fear of a farmer flight to the industrial centers, but you don't put the clampdown on your own people to fend that off. You manage your way through it just like Europe and the US did. Nope. Not China. Life is cheap in China. You are born a farmer? You will die a farmer. And that's that! Done! This really sucks, and there has to be a better way.

Sure, foreign investment is more welcome in China now, but don't mistake this for economic freedom." Calculated corporate exchanges with the West do not amount to economic freedom. And while China may no longer execute anyone who speaks out against the regime, they do censor the fucking internet (and there's a hell of a lot of internal censorship and silencing happening). They learned after Tienanmen that PR could work against them if they played with too free a hand. So they no longer run over civilians with tanks in broad daylight. But don't give them too much credit.

The south and east of China are prosperous and well fed, but the west and north are practically lawless in many parts. People starve and freeze when the weather is bad. This is an emerging global leader for the 21st century? Having seen the corrugated tin huts that people shelter under for homes in rural areas, I myself will be pretty disgusted when the dragon dances and symphony orchestra ring in the opening ceremony. The pageant of the Olympics is designed to get you to believe "YES CHINA IS REBORN" but there is a long and complex and often very dirty story to tell behind all that shit. And I have not even spoken of Tibet.

To let the torch through in the name of not politicizing the Olympics is to cede a political victory to the centralized ruling party of China. They have political ends at play, no fucking doubt. It makes me cringe to hear Americans debating "but the Olympics aren't supposed to be political..." How can you celebrate a "symbol of unity" when the facts on the ground speak otherwise? Aren't you just contributing to a cover-up job if you do so? Sure, we're affluent and we'd like to enjoy the illusion of international unity and enjoy the spectacle of sport without interruption by the disenfranchised, but that's simply not right.

It makes me cringe to hear Americans debating "but the Olympics aren't supposed to be political..." How can you celebrate a "symbol of unity" when the facts on the ground speak otherwise?

I think those are kind of different things, at least in my mind. Protesting the Olympics makes sense to me. Mobbing a bunch of runners who are celebrating the spirit of the Olympics seems mean. I think the people who managed to get a banner across the GG Bridge were great. I think requiring an enormous three-deep police escort around the torch is just sucky.

I don't know that that's much more than hairsplitting, and I don't know that it's helpful, ultimately. I guess I'm trying to separate the spirit of the Olympics, which should be non-political, from the reality of the Olympics, which is, from what I can tell, a cesspit. And it seems like the anti-China protesters are, at the core, committed to the ideal spirit of the Olympics -- which makes the whole thing feel just like a giant tangle of hollow victories.

(Also, thanks for you comment -- I didn't know large parts of that, and it was fascinating.)

There is also a large part of me that sees the tragedy in letting China's internal politics spoil the Olympics, which are one of the best symbols of hope we have. I agree with your point about protesting China without spoiling the torch run completely, which is why I wouldn't join a torch-route protest myself. It's an untenable position. Do nothing and China gets a boatload of nice PR to help them sweep their skeletons back into the closet. Ruin the Olympics and you extend the reach of their crimes to the entire world's best occasion to meet, compete and embrace. I think that the protestors have brought sufficient attention to the issues so far. There's been significant press. I hope this balance continues, and that we can still hold the games but bring even greater awareness to some of the unfortunate circumstances that surround them. A balance between those would be the best outcome of all, and make the games' purpose of bringing us together even more successful.