MetaChat - Do you tell your SO "I love you" unprovoked?

he's full of shit indeed.

posted by By the Grace of God 04 March | 17:14

Last time I tried that, I got dumped for it. Another girlfriend told me to stop. I've learned, from being told in very explicit terms, that women (or at least the ones I date) don't like it - or at least, they don't like it coming from me.

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 17:17

I actually try to slip it in at the least expected times. Well not during a full-blown argument, but at other unexpected times.

It either melts her or squicks her out, depending on her mood.

posted by danf 04 March | 17:17

Well, what is love, really? Beyond the first flush of infatuation and the honeymoon of a new romance, is it not just friendship plus sex (plus commitment, if that's your game)?

posted by chrismear 04 March | 17:18

Yes. Rarely.

posted by danostuporstar 04 March | 17:18

baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 17:21

All the time, actually.

posted by AwkwardPause 04 March | 17:21

Every day.

posted by willpie 04 March | 17:23

Gender socialization probably plays a role in this kind of unsolicited expression, but it's not universal. The Fella and I serve as a counter-example to the expected gender-based expectation: he says "I love you" many, many times in a day, while I'm slightly more reticent in these matters.

It's actually been a tiny source of contention for us: he says it so often that I almost don't hear the words anymore, and so I'm slightly less likely to respond to it in a meaningful way.

Oddly enough, just before I read this, I was pontificating to The Fella (in my half-bottle-of-Shiraz way, which will also explain any typos) about expressions of love. I noted that I'[m a good deal like my mother, who rarely says mushy things, but who takes pain to give love as she expresses it best: in tangible form. My mom rarely says "I love you," but routinely surprises her loved ones with their favorite cheese, or the new paperback from their favorite author, or tickets to the new play, or other simple practical indications of love.

posted by Elsa 04 March | 17:24

Many times a day.

posted by kyleg 04 March | 17:25

Chris, have you never been in love?

There are lots of kinds of love and lots of kinds of people.
Unprovoked declarations of love are more a crazy in love thing or a drunken lout thing or a comedy gag thing, or an on the couch thing or a pass the salt thing--

He's full of crap.
But maybe he's emotionally constipated.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 17:25

My husband does, reasonably often. I do, at about the same rate.

What really disarmed me, a few months ago, was when he said out of the blue: "you know I love you, but you know what? I really like you as well"

posted by gaspode 04 March | 17:26

Ok ladies, explain what you'd be thinking when you'd tell your SO to stop saying "I love you"? That is what I keep experiencing.

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 17:29

"you know I love you, but you know what? I really like you as well"

That is really sweet.

Yes. I have no problem telling husband I love him. I do it often.

My husband tells me he loves me unprovoked at least once a week.

On the other hand, he is stingy with the compliments. The last compliment he gave me was, "nice pants" or "nice boob shirt". He never tells me I'm pretty or beautiful. I don't hold it against him. It used to grate me in the beginning of our relationship. I don't need to be constantly fawned upon, that would drive me crazy, but the occasional compliment would be nice. I always compliment his appearance. Compliments don't come easy for him. I know he thinks I'm attractive, he just has a hard time saying it. Your guy might have a hard time saying, I love you.

posted by LoriFLA 04 March | 17:29

"you know I love you, but you know what? I really like you as well"

Yeah, that startled me recently, as well. It's amazing -- just unexpected.

Yeah, he's my best friend. Wow. Of all the things I expected in my life, this is... not on the list. This is extra.

posted by Elsa 04 March | 17:35

Your guy might have a hard time saying, I love you.

This I don't get. It's the easiest thing in the world to say.

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 17:35

Okay, telling her.

posted by LoriFLA 04 March | 17:37

Your guy might have a hard time saying, I love you.

This I don't get. It's the easiest thing in the world to say.

Man, I get it. It's the easiest thing in the world to say when you feel the urge to say it, unprovoked, but there's something about feeling constrained...

I love my partner thoroughly, utterly, without reserve, but when I feel pressed to say "I love you" a dozen times a day or more, the words can feel hollow. It starts losing meaning for me, as any oft-repeated phrase can lose meaning, and I feel as if I'm just mouthing the words.

I've tried to get over this feeling a bit, because it's clearly important to my partner, but I can understand someone else's reluctance to yield to this numbing effect.

posted by Elsa 04 March | 17:46

I think *very* early in a relationship, constant declarations of love (verbal or non-verbal) can feel weird and constraining. But my family, sometime around the time I was in 2nd grade or so, consciously made the decision to start saying "I love you" to each other much more often than we had been, so I'm comfortable with it in established relationships.

And I think there's a difference between the casual clipped "Love you!" that ends a phone call, and a sincere romantic "I love you." And I think both are important.

I believe the childhood story that sparked the change was: My brother and I had gotten into a big argument, and my father was trying to talk us through what happened and into apologies. I remember him asking me to tell my brother that I loved him, and that just made me cry harder. I remember the completely astonished look on my father's face that his two children couldn't say "I love you" to each other without crying fits. So, suddenly, my parents started modeling the behavior. Which I sincerely appreciate.

(Love you, dno!)

posted by occhiblu 04 March | 17:55

I say it to my wife on a regular basis, in no small part I think because it's explicitly unprovoked. I really love her, and neither of us is the type to fish for compliments or demand a quota of niceties; it's taken for granted that I'm not expected to say it, and so when I say it it's because it occurs to me and I mean it.

My first girlfriend back in high school had the poor luck to be my first girlfriend, and to her credit she did make the effort to point out to me that I didn't say nice, simple, complimentary things about her as often as she'd like. It was sort of an embarrassing revelation for me: of course I cared about her, of course I thought she was beautiful, saying it or not saying it didn't change that, right? But I can be very much inside my own head sometimes, and I think I was even moreso back then. And that bit of honest "you know, these little unsolicited reminders that you care are important" feedback is something I carried out of that formative relationship.

And what I did I think was internalize that, to the point that being comfortable with just saying nice things became a little part of my personality. So now, I don't so much carry around this sense of obligation to say nice things like "I love you" or "you know, you're really pretty" to my wife; it just occurs to me that these things are true and by instinct I say as much.

So I can understand that some guys don't feel as comfortable with it; and I can understand some of the sense of trepidation, the pushback that comes with feeling like you're required somehow to say these things. Everybody is different, everybody has different degrees of emotional availability and willingness/ability to verbalize such things.

Accordingly, I don't think it's necessarily bullshit that a guy who genuinely loves his SO would be disinclined to just say so unprompted on a regular basis. There are a dozen different things that play into what someone does and doesn't feel comfortable saying.

posted by cortex 04 March | 17:59

Accordingly, I don't think it's necessarily bullshit that a guy who genuinely loves his SO would be disinclined to just say so unprompted on a regular basis.

I 100% agree with that, but I do think it's bullshit for someone to say, "Therefore, all people of my gender are like this," with the subtext of "and therefore, I should not be expected to change and you should stop asking me to meet your needs."

posted by occhiblu 04 March | 18:06

Okay, taking a hint from occhi's story, I'll take this opportunity to say something I thought yesterday, at random, as I puddle-jumped my way through downtown. I had occasion to think of a conversation that I had here lately --- doesn't matter what conversation --- and I thought, with a certain amount of astonishment, "Boy, I really care about these people who live in my computer... these people I never see, these people who are just pixels on a screen to me."

Though I just admitted that I have trouble saying "I love you" unprovoked, I am here, saying it unprovoked to Metachat: I love you.

It may well be the previously-mentioned shiraz that allows me to say this. But it is not the shiraz talking.

posted by Elsa 04 March | 18:07

I love you, too, Elsa! Shiraz or no shiraz!

posted by occhiblu 04 March | 18:08

I say "I love you" to MuddDude all the time, the way my mom did to my father. Probably 2-3 times per day, depending on how much we hang out on that particular day. To me, it means "I love you, and..." Like, "I love you, and I can't stop thinking about you," Or "I love you, and you're such a hottie," or "I love you, and you completely get on my nerves," but the and usually is better left unsaid.

MuddDude initiates an "I love you" pretty rarely, but I don't really have a problem with that. It's not "a guy thing", it's a MuddDude thing - in general, I talk a lot more than he does. But MuddDude is pretty good at saying "I love you" in other ways - with his eyes, with his hands, with his attention.

On preview, cortex is a pretty smart dude. occhiblu is a pretty smart chick. He can NOT say I love you, but to blame it on being a man is both a cliche and a bad defense.

posted by muddgirl 04 March | 18:08

He can NOT say I love you, but to blame it on being a man is both a cliche and a bad defense.

Indeed! My man says it all the time. He neither eats nor sleeps. Just IloveyouIloveyouIloveyouIloveyou. Great way to diet.

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 04 March | 18:10

Saying it too early and too often is creepy
or taking the piss
or both.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:11

Mr. Jadepearl had to be shown a spreadsheet on the frequency or the lack there of verbal forms of affection over a span of time. The result of this is that he placed it in his PDA that forms of affection were required maintenance.

In answer to the original question, I give forms of affection unprovoked however, living with an economist has allowed me the permission to NOT be affectionate and categorize it under feedback loop and be able to put things in data sets for review.

posted by jadepearl 04 March | 18:12

Jadepearl, that may be the best comment I've ever read. Anywhere. On any topic. I'm in love. And I've not even had any shiraz.

posted by occhiblu 04 March | 18:13

Chris, have you never been in love?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

posted by chrismear 04 March | 18:14

Not everyone does or will.
People who "fall in love too easily" are also creepy.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:16

or taking the piss

What does that mean? I know the term "taking the piss out of someone" - which means to insult them vigorously. Is this what you mean?

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 18:18

Taking the piss = Making fun of.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:20

Ew. That's a really icky way of saying that. Is it the same as taking the piss out of... ?
Like beat the shit out of [someone]?

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 18:23

i am taking the piss when i am making fun of you.
Excuse me, i have got to go.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:26

i'm sorry, but i do love the colloquial idioms.
Someone trying to figure out what a "fag hag" was is still hysterical to me:
"So it's a really old lesbian?"

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:31

I love you too, Elsa, and that, jadepearl was an excellent comment.

We say it a lot. He probablys says it more. But perhaps what Elsa is getting at is that it's almost reflexive, almost, but not quite noise.

Gazing into each others eyes and really feeling love and weeping and declaring I Love You? Yeah, no, we don't do that.

So pie, if you are with a woman who only wants the I Really Am Overcome and I Mean it kind of statement, and you're more the gentle reminder kinda guy, I guess it could rankle. I think that's silly on the lady's side, and that's also a stab in the dark, I have no idea what your particulars are.

I mentioned in the terms of endearment thread that "Honey" is a word that strikes fear in me, because he uses it only in a hostile way. "GD IT HONEY!" For example.

Everybody's different and words are just words, but if it's an important issue to somebody, either way, it's worth talking about.

posted by rainbaby 04 March | 18:32

pi=3, this is something the mister and I were talking about the other day. We're both definitely more demonstrative than vocal in our shows of affection, and well matched in that regard. I submit that there are many flavours of love AND infatuation. I've experienced quite a few. I used to think I 'knew it all' or that love |= infatuation, or whatever the current hip theory is. Thank goodness I've had that train of thought derailed.

These days I doubt that even if I live to be 100 I'll experience every nuance of love, friendship, infatuation, passion or connection that there is. Every single combination of 2 (or more) humans interacting brings about different nuances of meaning and variances to the pattern.

There are a few reasons verbalising "ILY" may not go well.

- One participant may be (or become) more (or less) emotionally invested in the relationship than the other, meaning someone's feelings are bound to get hurt.

- One feels the other lacks sincerity and that it's "just become words".

- One or the other may simply have difficulty communicating 'tough subjects', and yes, this can be one of those.

- There may be unresolved stuff going on that neither is fully aware of, separate from communication issues.

- And, as always, what ethylene said.

cortex:"...of course I cared about her, of course I thought she was beautiful, saying it or not saying it didn't change that, right? But I can be very much inside my own head sometimes, and I think I was even moreso back then."

indeed, this is brilliant. some people never actually do manage to escape, regardless of age / experience.

posted by lonefrontranger 04 March | 18:34

I think it's been a matter of "I don't want to think about, or be made aware of you having any feelings for me because it makes it harder for me to feel like I can do as I please with out any accountability or consequences." I seem to end up with partners who really don't want a partner in life.

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 18:38

Taking the piss is a total anglo-ism. Not sure where it originated, but it seems to mean, "to make fun of, or with". I'm guessing that eth meant that a newly formed couple might be all, "I love YOU!" and "No, I LOVE YOU" and all that in a way that is clearly not totally sincere.

But, at this point, I'm trying to guess what eth means, and that's a dangerous path to tread.

I am guessing, pie, that there might be cultural or upbringing-based reasons for a female partner to be less in favour of your declarations. Perhaps, if they come from an undemonstrative background, that might feel like fawning, or crowding, but I can't say for sure.

In a perfect world, we'd all be raised by folks who would be horrified to find that their kids couldn't say I love you to each other, and we'd fall into relationships with people who perfectly met our needs to hear and feel loved. Sadly, we often don't live in a perfect world.

posted by richat 04 March | 18:41

i love you, richat, and i mean that in a totally uncreepy way.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:44

Oh, and occhi, I'm not trying to single your dad out as the perfect dad or anything. That's a great story is all. And, yes, kudos to Cortex and mr. gaspode, and else and jadepearl.

Dammit, when are we gonna get the ability to favourite posts!

and on preview, right back atcha ethylene!

posted by richat 04 March | 18:49

So is the other person in this scenario "giving" you the piss? Are you removing it by force?

And how about if you're "taking the shit"? Does that mean you're beating me with a club?

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 18:50

Or perhaps you've stolen a colostomy bag from your unfortunate victim...

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 18:51

i am so not taking your shit.

posted by ethylene 04 March | 18:53

pi darling, this plate of beans? it's getting cold, love.

posted by lonefrontranger 04 March | 18:54

way to rain on my parade

posted by pieisexactlythree 04 March | 19:10

Oh, and occhi, I'm not trying to single your dad out as the perfect dad or anything.

Hee, no, he is a good dad. And it is a good story. And I hadn't thought of that story in a while; it was nice to be reminded.

posted by occhiblu 04 March | 19:44

One of the the things that makes me not completely hate my mom's husband is that he busts out the statement, "Gosh, I really like you." to her a few times a week - and always during a moment in conversation when he really shouldn't like her at all. This isn't a man that I would have conversations with if he wasn't married to my mom and I've made peace with the fact that I won't ever like him but I fully understand why they are married to each other and why it works and when he says, "Gosh. I really like you." to mom I get that he actually means it and that despite his numerous faults that he's in it for the long haul. (I would also like to note for the record that the relationship I have with her husband is built solidly on the fact that we've both agreed to put up with each other and we all know the faults involved.)

posted by fluffy battle kitten 04 March | 19:51

Now I have this thing stuck in my head that would be perfectly apropos if I could only remember it.

It was in a Janet Evanovich novel and Stephanie Plum was explaining that emotions between her and her mom were never spoken but instead were conveyed via coded meatloaf dinners.

Anyone remember?

posted by small_ruminant 04 March | 19:52

My ex told me he loved me all the time, even after I stopped saying it back. Before things went south, however, we both said it many times a day.

Mr. Current doesn't say it as often, but he does say it unprovoked and at the best times. He thinks it becomes less special if it's said all the time.

posted by rhapsodie 04 March | 19:56

I 100% agree with that, but I do think it's bullshit for someone to say, "Therefore, all people of my gender are like this," with the subtext of "and therefore, I should not be expected to change and you should stop asking me to meet your needs."

Yeah, no argument there. I'll offer the partial defense that some guys may actually believe that all people of their gender are like that; that by whatever set of circumstances (cold father, frattish friends, no close emotional relationships with other guys who were emotionally expressive) they actually believe that they are conforming to the normal model. It's still bullshit, but you can see how it can happen.

Whether that's realistically the case most of the time is another question entirely, but it's a significant factor for at least some guys.

posted by cortex 04 March | 22:02

I totally agree with what occhiblu said upthread--that it's one thing to say "Love You" or "Love", than to say "I Love You" (and to actually mean it).

posted by hadjiboy 04 March | 22:08

I'd say I say it about three or four times a day. I checked in with Kay, and she puts it at a minimum of 21 times a week, so there you go. I often phrase it as a question: "Who loves Kay?"

"You?"

"MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

posted by eamondaly 04 March | 23:45

I'll offer the partial defense that some guys may actually believe that all people of their gender are like that... they actually believe that they are conforming to the normal model. It's still bullshit, but you can see how it can happen.

Oh, yeah, definitely. I very strongly believe that gender-role indoctrination occurs, and I think it's incredibly powerful thing, and I think this example would certainly fall within that. But I don't think any of the above is an excuse not to change, and grow, and learn. (Which is why I love your story, cortex; it's the perfect example of a great, helpful, functional response to being challenged in that way.)

posted by occhiblu 05 March | 00:26

Oh, god, we're the mushiness.

We say it all the time; sometimes we sing it, sometimes we make silly guessing games with "I love you" as the answer, my husband can even make his harmonica sound like it's saying "I love you, poopie" shut up!. He also has this thing where he says "do you know how much I love you?" And then recites a chain of terribly elaborate 'vast numbers' related to some theme (different every time), and says he loves me more than that. For example, "Do you know how many frames are in a single feature film? And how many frames have been edited out during editing? If you took the raw footage of all the films that have ever been made, and all the ones that will ever be made, and counted every frame - I love you more than that." (Except when he does it, it comes out sounding better.) He also has a goofy thing where he says, "do you love me as much as I do?" which first debuted a million years ago as a funny mistake, but is now hard coded into our love banter.

We don't say it less than when we first got together, we say it more, which makes sense to me. But the important thing about being able to say it a lot is that it not be a loaded statement. Like "I love you, so do this for me," or "I love you, so you have to forgive me," or any kind of "I love you, which fact thus now confers on you X responsibility/obligation." There are times, of course, when "I love you" is used in various heavier scenarios, but to me the phrase should not be wielded as some blunt instrument of emotion to coerce or persuade.

If I only heard "I love you" after a fight, or to inspire me to guilt, forgiveness or pity, or some action that I really didn't want to take, it would feel like a bludgeon, and would grow to hate the words. I also don't think it would be fabulous if I only heard it when I did something particularly "good". If it were only employed as a reward phrase, I'd probably be like, "yeah, yeah, whatever."

posted by taz 05 March | 00:26

Every day.

posted by jtron 05 March | 01:00

This thread made me smile a lot and once laugh out loud. Jadepearl's one was priceless. Married to an Aspie, that's pretty much exactly what it's like.

Over the year's it's improved and over the last year spontaneously more than once a week, (by text, e-mail, IM more than that).

It has a lot to do with how comfortable my daughter 17 and my son 10 are in saying it meaningfully, so due to pattern recognition I guess things have improved.

I am particularly touched when my daughter says it out of the blue, i.e. when she doesn't need MomCab.

Growing up my father used to say to all of us last thing at night:

I love you more than.....all the gold..... in Alaska
......more than all the tea ......in China
......more than all the penguins .....in the South Pole.

He would hesitate so the child would have to finish it.
It's still one of the favorite things in our household although mostly used for the 10yr old!

I feel really lucky that I have heard ILY spontaneously from 2 of my best friends, and all three members of my immediate family just since last Saturday.

This thread has made me count my blessings. Love you guys!

posted by Wilder 05 March | 01:52

My boyfriend does, though I was the one that was more effusive with it. He was shy and didn't want to declare anything until he was sure. Once he told me he loved me (a month into the relationship) we said it every day, but I usually had to prompt it. (I love you! I love you too!)

After many discussions over why I'm always the one who has to say it first (yes, yes, I'm insecure), and nearly 2 years into the relationship, he now says it before I do! He sometimes says it in a funnily dramatic way too (one I cannot convey into text), which amuses me because it's totally not his public persona.

I'm a bit like Elsa and her mum; saying ILY so often sometimes feels hollow (even when I mean it; it doesn't seen enough) but I show my love by getting them something especially for them. My boyfriend has a ton of random gifts now, lol.

posted by divabat 05 March | 02:14

This thread has made me count my blessings. Love you guys!

It's been fairly recently that I've really been able to get a good fix on who's who on this board; there are so many posters. I knew taz from the minute I saw her name, way back in 2006 (when I first started surfing Mefi; Taz is my sister's name as well--short for Tazeen). Then, ever since getting an account on flickr and adding a whole bunch of you I've been able to see how you look and that's helped a lot too for some reason (facial recognition?). But it's stories like the one that Wilder posted above that really drive the point home at who you people are.

I love you more than.....all the gold..... in Alaska
......more than all the tea ......in China
......more than all the penguins .....in the South Pole.

That was lovely.

posted by hadjiboy 05 March | 02:40

I say it to her, but she doesn't say it much to me. That's fine though, she just finds it a bit more difficult to express herself than I do.

Here in the UK, "Taking the piss" means to make fun of, often in a mean way. If someone owes me money and they haven't paid me back, they're taking the piss. i.e. They're mocking me. It's also meant kindly. You can take the piss out of your mates down the pub and it's OK.

Interesting that if someone is taking the piss out of you, then it's a bad thing but if you do it to someone else it's a good thing.

In polite company, you "take the micky". They're analogous. Micky is probably rhyming slang, but I've no idea what it's rhyming with.

posted by seanyboy 05 March | 03:01

I do it whenever he's being cute or everything just feels nice. Like we're watching telly, and our gal is finally asleep despite the very itchy chicken-pox thanks to hearing a daddy sung lullaby. All is quiet, we both relax and then I just whisper it to him to kinda seal the moment.

A cute example is hard to explain. Sometimes he's just cute. Trying to build something and failing and asking for help and then succeeding and getting that "wee! I did it!" look on his face warrants a "dang, I love you" from me.

posted by dabitch 05 March | 04:12

I'm with everyone who reckons saying it too often makes it feel hollow. Unprovoked I love you's should be splurted out because it's a new day/new week and you haven't said your ration yet - but because your SO just did one of those thousandybazzilion things that you love she or she for and just fancy reminding them that, dang, you love 'em.

posted by dabitch 05 March | 04:15

Taz reminded me that MuddDude plays little word games with it, when I say it too often in a day. Like, I'll say "I love you," and he'll reply "I love roux", and then I'll say, "I love mu", etc. etc.

posted by muddgirl 05 March | 09:00

Neither of us say it often - certainly not every day, probably only every three or four days. I've been on both sides of the ILY equation - in a relationship where it was said too early and too often and used as a prod to get me to say it/feel it and in a relationship where it was *never* said (nor felt, so there you go).

This feels right. We say it in the quiet moments before sleep or after being silly or he'll come up to me in the kitchen and whisper it into my neck. There's very little "I love you, too" that happens, actually; we've both experienced ILY as a prod to get a response and it feels wrong. It's still meaningful and a little shocking (in a good way).

And I do have a hard time saying it when it isn't meant. I'm still not entirely clear on love is, but I'm reasonably sure of what it isn't and if it isn't there then the words get stuck in my throat.

posted by Fuzzbean 05 March | 11:27

The mister and I tell each other a few times every day.

posted by deborah 05 March | 12:05

okay, now I'm just thoroughly depressed. Ah well.

posted by Lucinda 05 March | 15:21

Mr. V and I don't say it every day, but we try to. Then there are days where we start the "I Love You." "No, I Love You More." "No, I Love YOU More." and so on. My favorite thing he does: He'll start telling me a story, or about something he read, saw, or heard, and I'll be listening when all of the sudden, he'll say "I Love You" just unexpectedly. Most times the whole story thing was made up just so he can catch me off guard.

posted by redvixen 05 March | 19:28

I say it to my boyfriend very occasionally, when I really mean it. So far, he has not said it back to me, which I wonder about. He usually just gives me a kiss or holds my hand tight when I say it. The closest he's come is once saying "Much love" when we were getting off the phone. I don't know if he doesn't say it because he doesn't mean it or if he just doesn't feel comfortable saying it.

My ex-husband and I said it all the time, but upon much reflection, I don't think he ever really loved me.

posted by Twiggy 05 March | 21:22

04 March 2008