MetaChat - Richard Sharpe question

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28 February 2008

Richard Sharpe question Or possibly just a question regarding UK racial(?) slurs...→[More:] I watched an episode yesterday and some Irish-hating officer kept referring Patrick Harper, (Sharpe's Irish Sargeant Major), as "black as bog."

I thought it was because he had black hair but the guy saying it also had black hair.

So why is he calling Harper black?

post by: small_ruminant at: 13:16 | 31 comments

"Black Irish" - it's a term used to describe a swarthy Irishman, believed to be descended from shipwrecked Spanish Armada sailors from the 16th century.

posted by essexjan 28 February | 13:22

Well, here's more info on the concept (or myth?) of "black Irish."

It's not a slur, and I don't watch the show in question, so I can't speak to the context (being anti-Irish shouldn't have a bearing on it). Perhaps others can illuminate, given more context.

posted by mykescipark 28 February | 13:26

the prettiest man I ever knew was black Irish with the brightest bluest eyes in Texas. sigh.

posted by crush-onastick 28 February | 13:28

Ah. The guy didn't strike me as all that swarthy but maybe you're supposed to just imagine it.

Thanks.

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 13:29

The character calling him black hated all things (and people) Irish, and he said it as a slur. (But to the character, being Irish was a slur already.)

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 13:30

The beauty of this slur is that it is set during the Peninsular War when the British Forces were being led by....

an Irishman!

Having said that, it was used more than once against the Duke of Welligton and as part of the Anglo, Protestant ascendancy he would most definately not have self-identified as Irish.

There's a pretty famous riposte he is meant to have made when someone threw such a slur in the Houses of Parliament to the effect that "being born in a stable does not make one an Ass" which indicates how objectionable he would find this.

So in this context it was most definitely meant as a slur.

posted by Wilder 28 February | 14:06

why don't I spell-check????

(I adore Sharpe BTW, brilliant, brilliant series!)

posted by Wilder 28 February | 14:08

Starring Boromir?

posted by pieisexactlythree 28 February | 14:11

pie=3: yes, Boromir and costumes are the series's main attractions. Sharpe's a guilty pleasure :) I also like all the accents, though I couldn't tell you whose was what. There are obviously class cues flying over my head willy nilly.

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 14:32

Cool. I watched it on PBS about a decade ago.

posted by pieisexactlythree 28 February | 14:36

I just found them at our video store. They aren't numbered so I'm watching them all out of order.

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 14:41

Sharpe was one of the few series my ex-husband and I would watch together. He liked the battles and I just used to drool over Sean Bean. And, of course, just like any woman who ever kissed Captain Kirk in Star Trek was bound to be dead by the end of the episode, every woman Sharpe shagged was doomed.

Have you come across the episodes with Pete Postlethwaite as Obadiah Hakeswill?

Sean's accent, btw, is pure Sheffield.

posted by essexjan 28 February | 14:52

Yes, Pete Postlethwaite's character is deliciously horrible. There are a couple other regulars on there I like, too, but I don't know their names.

I read that Sean Bean's accent is Sheffield but since I don't know much about England I don't know what-all that implies. (Is "what-all" a word?)

Okay, essexjan, since I have you here- Bean said he didn't mind being ladies' "bit of rough." Since he doesn't seem particularly rough, is "bit of rough" a usual turn of phrase, is there another class thing I missed, or is it something else altogether?

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 15:09

He has a north of England accent, s_r (although Sheffield is a fairly 'soft' Yorkshire accent compared with, say, Barnsley - seanyboy amirite?) and he's generally seen as a bit of rough - in other words a working-class bloke that middle-class women will use for sex (even though in real life he comes from a middle-class background). He played Mellors the gardener to Joely Richardson's Lady Chatterley a few years ago and, my God, it was hot.

posted by essexjan 28 February | 15:26

Mmmm, Sharpe. Sean Bean was one of my first crushes as a sweet young teenager. My mom and I would watch Sharpe together and swoon.

So of course I went and read all the books, and now I have a surfeit of utterly useless knowledge about the Napoleonic wars. Such is life.

posted by Fuzzbean 28 February | 16:09

Phwoar!
≡ Click to see image ≡

posted by essexjan 28 February | 16:15

Thanks, essexjan! So nice to have a culture translator, especially since I love British dramas. I just know there's a thousand nuances I'm missing.

I've liked Sean Bean in everything I've seen him in (which isn't a ton: LOTR, Sharpe, Equilibrium, 007). He's attractive but I usually buy his characters, too- bonus!

I didn't see the Anna Karenina. I meant to, but I love the book so dearly that I was afraid to. He's not at all how I imagine Vronsky, but I can see how he could make it work.

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 16:23

Also, the Sharpe series is full of props I'd love to get my hands on. The last one was a very sturdy, utilitarian, round (cylindrical), clear-glassed, candle hand-lantern. I can pretty much only find oil ones or ones that are mostly decorative. I CAN use them, but I have to be careful with them- they're a little fragile.

** s_r goes back to surreptitiously enjoying essexjan's photo contribution despite being at the office **

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 16:28

Fuzzbean, I have the same surfeit from reading the Patrick O'Brian novels over and over.

posted by small_ruminant 28 February | 16:29

OMG! Sean Bean is every thinking woman's "bit o' rough!"

Course I'm not going to tell you what I'd be thinkin!

Unusually someone from that social class, as evidenced by his accent, would never normally have been in command. This was an era when officers bought their commission and a wealthy 2nd or third son of the landed gentry/aristocracy could find himself in command of gristled veterans (AKA pete Postlewaite) at the age of 15.

posted by Wilder 28 February | 16:43

One does not simply ROCK into ~~Mordor~~ the Iberian Peninsula!

posted by pieisexactlythree 28 February | 17:46

Sharpe can rock my Iberian Peninsula any time.

posted by Fuzzbean 28 February | 18:29

...i don't have an Iberian Peninsula...

posted by ethylene 28 February | 20:39

*sigh*

Abstinence-only education strikes again.

*hands eth a hand mirror*

posted by Fuzzbean 28 February | 21:57

For gassakes, give me a break.
i've had no education whatsoever and despite the size of anything, nothing qualifies as a peninsula, for lack of isthmus.

posted by ethylene 28 February | 22:03

But i wouldn't mind exploring his estuary, and i'm not much one for estuaries.

posted by ethylene 28 February | 22:05

Screw the estuary, i just got a view of the land bridge.
Ahoy hoy.

posted by ethylene 28 February | 22:12

Y'all are killin' me here. :D

Sean Bean's one of the few blonds that I find attractive (I prefer dark guys). You can add Daniel Craig and Viggo Mortensen to the list. Yummm.

Anyway, I think I need to look into renting the Sharpe series; it sounds interesting.

posted by deborah 29 February | 01:16

essexjan is correct.

Barnsley is a super strong accent. Ian McMillan is an OK example of such.

posted by seanyboy 29 February | 03:05

Or Mick McCarthy, seanyboy.

posted by essexjan 29 February | 15:11

That's so funny- there's a guy in a meeting I go to who I'm pretty sure has that same accent. Cool to be able to place it, if I'm right. I have a bad ear for accents.

posted by small_ruminant 29 February | 16:27

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