MetaChat - Jury duty

Honest.

But hardly ever pick the smart, liberal-looking people anyway, so you're safe.

posted by mudpuppie 01 February | 19:13

Be honest up front.

posted by jason's_planet 01 February | 19:17

Why would you be forswearing yourself?

posted by By the Grace of God 01 February | 19:54

mudpuppie- they picked me last time.

BTGOG- because the judge tells you what the law is (as she sees it) and tells you you must convict or acquit based on that. What that boils down to, often, is that the judge is telling you whether or not the person is guilty. Also, the judges never tell you that you can ignore the law if you feel it's unreasonable. When you swear to follow the judges instructions it's before you even know what the person's accused of, so you don't know if you'll be able to convict in good conscience or not.

posted by small_ruminant 01 February | 20:00

I've ranted about this before, but they let an attorney on our jury last time (!!) and she said- I kid you not- well, if the policeman pulled him over he must have been doing SOMETHING wrong!

White cop. Black defendant. Nice neighborhood. Yeah. White juror, too, as you might have guessed.

posted by small_ruminant 01 February | 20:02

Damn. Well, there goes my theory for why I'm always the first person dismissed.

posted by mudpuppie 01 February | 20:02

I think they want jurors who are intelligent enough to follow the facts of the case but not so smart as to be able to poke holes in their arguments.

posted by jason's_planet 01 February | 20:06

s_m -- would you feel more comfortable serving on a civil jury (as opposed to criminal)?

I served on a jury once, even though I'm a lawyer. I thought I'd be the most pro-plaintiff person of the bunch, but there were people way out there beyond me.

posted by Claudia_SF 01 February | 20:07

Even though I'm very confident that I'd be among the first people dismissed, sometimes it makes me a little bit sad that I've never been called to jury duty.

posted by box 01 February | 20:07

It's tough to second guess these people. I was honest (have friends in law enforcement, been a crime victim, as have family members, etc) and thought I'd be sent home. They picked me and we spent a week convicting some schmuck of selling $20 worth of crack. The cops were black and Latino, the defendant was black, the DA was black, the jury was a complete mix (it's Queens, so it would be difficult for it not to be). The defense attorney was a white guy, though. But everybody was convinced that the guy did it. It took us lkess than 20 minutes to convict.

posted by jonmc 01 February | 20:09

I've been summoned for jury numerous times, but I just ignore it.

posted by pieisexactlythree 01 February | 20:20

pieosexactlythree: no offense, but as far as I'm concerned, you've forfieted your right to bitch about criminal justice mishaps, etc.

posted by jonmc 01 February | 20:22

I would really like to do jury duty, but I've never been summoned here in NY. I got summoned in MA once, and I went, but I didn't get picked for a case (in MA, you go for one day, and if you're not picked that day, you're done- is that how it is in NY, too?)

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 01 February | 20:27

Nope. You wait until you're picked or dismissed.

posted by jonmc 01 February | 20:28

I was called once in California and managed to talk my way out of serving, which was good because it was going to be a month-long trial. The judge was trying to be considerate of jurors by having them come in only in the mornings, but I was working East Coast-y hours, so that would have been my entire workday.

One of my professors mentioned the other day that one of the perks of being a therapist is that no lawyer ever wants you on a jury.

posted by occhiblu 01 February | 20:33

Criminal justice mishaps are very low on my list of things to bitch about.

posted by pieisexactlythree 01 February | 20:44

Perhaps, but if some guy goes free who's guilty or an innocent guy gets convicted, well, you have to shoulder some of the blame...

posted by jonmc 01 February | 20:45

Why don't lawyers ever want therapists on a jury? What other jobs don't lawyers ever want on a jury?

posted by box 01 February | 20:48

jon, quit trolling.

posted by pieisexactlythree 01 February | 21:00

Dude, I am honestly not trolling. If we want our justice system to work, we have to participate. If that offends you, I don't know what to tell you.

posted by jonmc 01 February | 21:06

pie=3 is just ignoring the criminal justice system so it'll want him more. Actually, I'm kinda hot for him now too.

posted by mullacc 01 February | 21:22

Yeah, I don't think jon's trolling at all.

There's a line in the West Wing about jury duty, where someone tells Donna that she can do it or not do it, but if she doesn't do it, she loses the right to complain about the OJ trial, which pretty much sums up my view.

posted by matthewr 01 February | 21:28

I've only ever been summoned once, when I was in college a state away, so I had to turn it down. No one else in my family has ever been summoned, which is kinda funny.

posted by sperose 01 February | 21:31

Oh yea, I forgot, I got summoned in FL this year at my parent's address, which I had to turn down (since I'm not a FL resident).

posted by ThePinkSuperhero 01 February | 21:35

I was called once. It was a criminal DWI case. Needless to say, I was not selected.

posted by kellydamnit 01 February | 21:54

I've been summoned four times. Once,it was for a federal trial. The defendant was accused of Fed Exing cocaine to someone. I went down to Philly, didn't get picked and got sent home. I was disappointed. The next time, they wanted me to serve the day of my college graduation. I asked for an exemption and they gave it to me. Then they called me again and I had to call a number the night before to see if I had to show up. I didn't. The last time,I had just given birth and was breastfeeding exclusively. I got an exemption for that, too.

I was pleasantly surprised by how understanding they were both times I asked for special consideration. But if they had asked me to serve, I would have. I consider jury duty and voting to be the absolute most basic contributions to justice and democracy.

posted by jrossi4r 01 February | 21:59

I've been summoned twice and wasn't picked. I wanted to serve. I thought it would be an interesting experience. The first trial was a murder trial and they plea bargained so we were all sent home. There were literally hundreds of people there for just this one case.

The second time I wasn't picked. My entire department was on vacation on the day they wanted me to serve and they were understanding. They asked if I were willing to serve on other days and of course I said yes, but I wasn't picked. I was glad I wasn't picked for this particular day. It was a sexual assault on a minor charge. It is absolutely mind-boggling what some of the potential jurors said when questioned by the attorneys. Everything to, "I hate cops, I don't trust law enforcement" to "I have to see it with my own two eyes to believe anything happened."

posted by LoriFLA 01 February | 22:17

I consider jury duty and voting to be the absolute most basic contributions to justice and democracy.

My feelings in a nutshell.

I can't serve, however, because I am not a US citizen. In fact, I just last week had to send a form back to the New York courts with my passport and green card photocopied to prove that I wasn't just weaseling out of the system.

posted by gaspode 01 February | 22:22

box: Why don't lawyers ever want the rapists on a jury?

There, fixed it for you.

har

posted by qvantamon 01 February | 22:40

I served one time, on a criminal trial here in the great white north. The judge's instructions were basically something like: these are the charges, is the defendant guilty? The Jury is not there to decide what the law is.

posted by jjb 01 February | 23:04

s_r: wow, that sounds like it's pushing into Machiavellian territory.
I can say I agree with the judge saying "this is the letter of the law, and in these confines you must find the accused innocent or guilty." I don't agree with pre-existing prejudices coming into the framework of the general rules on conviction or not.
Life is far from black-and-white, and mostly I find that the spirit of the law is better than the rule. I'd suggest honesty, so you don't end up in a moral quandary (ie. ok, accused broke the law, but there are enough extenuating circumstances that this falls into a grey area here).
Basically: if the trial is about something potentially murky, what are you willing to be prepared to live with in regards to your black/white, innocent/guilty decision?
Having said all that, I'm not eligible for jury duty in Canada as I'm not a Canadian citizen, so YMMV.

posted by Zack_Replica 02 February | 00:27

I've been called once, but I couldn't serve as I was away at college.

I've been waiting since then, but no dice.

posted by muddgirl 02 February | 00:28

Why don't lawyers ever want therapists on a jury?

We tend to be a rather forgiving crew. I feel like every person I've ever met who's active in (or at least believes in) prisoners' rights issues has been a therapist.

posted by occhiblu 02 February | 01:23

(I think I phrased that last sentence badly. I know there are a lot of non-therapists working for prisoners' rights. There just seem to be a high number of therapists, as compared with the general population, who also do so.)

posted by occhiblu 02 February | 01:28

I'm about to be a lawyer on a jury trial (starting next week). It's my first trial (I'm not in charge, thank goodness).

posted by Claudia_SF 02 February | 01:51

I've only been called up once, (shortly after Judge Kaye permitted lawyers to serve on juries in NY) back when I lived in Queens, and was all excited to go, but then had to defer at the very last minute because I myself was trying a case in Brooklyn. Since then, I've moved to Brooklyn and haven't been called up once, to my eternal dismay. My buddy, on the other hand, has been called up more times than I can count, including once to a grand jury (which he had to defer because of the birth of his child -- grand jury lasts forever and a day).

I'd love to be called up again. I've seen jury empaneling from a different side (back when I worked for a judge) and it's a fascinating process that I'd love to be a part of, even though a lot of trials are boring as shit.

small_ruminant, I sympathize. I think the best you can say is that you will weigh the evidence presented fairly, and fit that within the law as it is explained to you by the judge (who, by the way, instructs jurors after hours of wrangling by the lawyers for both sides -- jury instructions represent a finely tuned compromise by the judge between the pressures placed on her by the lawyers for the plaintiff and the defendant). If you get kicked off a jury for that, then our jury system isn't working the way it should.

posted by Lassie 02 February | 02:10

I'm ineligible for jury service in the UK, I believe. I'm not sure whether I'm sad, glad or mad about that.

posted by essexjan 02 February | 04:26

I got called once, in Baltimore, and then didn't get picked for FOUR separate trials that day. I think it was because I was wearing black and carrying a large sketchbook and a Cafe Bustelo can full of oil pastels. ;-) The fourth trial of the day was a murder case and the defendant was stone gorgeous - one of the best looking men I have ever seen. So that was weird right there and then after they had brought him out and said some stuff they asked people who needed to be excused from serving to stand up and explain why. The girl behind me got up and said, "Uh, I used to date him." They hustled her out of there fast, I kid you not.

posted by mygothlaundry 02 February | 10:55

I can say I agree with the judge saying "this is the letter of the law, and in these confines you must find the accused innocent or guilty."

I don't even agree with this. If I think the law is wrong or unconstitutional, as I understand the constitution, I won't be able to convict someone. Ed Rosenthal, is an example of how screwed up the system here is. The jury wasn't told he had a permit. They weren't told he thought he was legal. They were just told he was flouting Federal law.

Juries also aren't told what the consequences are. You might be sending someone away for life for something you think ought to be 30 days community service. Especially with this 3 strikes crap. Did you know you can get 3 strikes all on one action? I'm making this example up, but say you steal something out of a house- that's breaking and entering, trespass, AND theft. Boom- locked away forever, and nothing the judge can do about it either- her hands are tied.

As an extreme example, harboring fugitive slaves was against the law. If the judge says you must convict based on current law, would you do it? That falls into the "just following orders" camp to me. AND it's not how the system was supposed to be set up.

posted by small_ruminant 02 February | 12:51

If I think the law is wrong or unconstitutional, as I understand the constitution, I won't be able to convict someone.

But as a juror, it's not part of your job to decide whether the law is right or not. Except in the extreme case of jury nullification (which is, rightly, incredibly rare), the twelve people of a jury have no right to over-ride laws made by representatives of the people as a whole.

posted by matthewr 03 February | 05:35

But as a juror, it's not part of your job to decide whether the law is right or not. Except in the extreme case of jury nullification (which is, rightly, incredibly rare), the twelve people of a jury have no right to over-ride laws made by representatives of the people as a whole.

I understand that, but I'm with s_r - I couldn't go against my conscience and I'd tell the judge up front.

I was called twice. I can't remember what the first one was for, but it was minor. The second one was for a child molestation case. They started picking the jury but before they got to me (and I'm sure I would have been dismissed) the guy (the boy's dad or step-dad) pleaded guilty.

Like Zack, I'm not a Canadian citizen and not eligible to serve at the moment. I really need to get off my arse and look into citizenship.

Oh, and Bro#1 was on a Grand Jury for a year. I think he had to show up every other Wednesday (or similar) for a year (or maybe it was six months). His boss wasn't please but Bro enjoyed the experience.

posted by deborah 03 February | 15:17

I was called once, about eight or nine years ago. There were two trials for which they were looking for jurors - one civil, one criminal. I got the criminal, got called into the court room, had to sit in the box, listened to them talk about the particulars of the case (I don't remember them now)...and proceeded to very silently freak out. How could I be responsible for the life of someone else? Why did it fall to me to decide if this person should go to jail or not? What if I made the wrong decision?

Somebody noticed me crying at this point, and they took a break and everyone left except me and the attorneys and the judge. I said "look, I'm really sorry, but I just cannot do this." They excused me and I've never been called back since.

posted by Lucinda 03 February | 22:57

01 February 2008